Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
Awareness in our world today | moderated by Krishnan Srinivasan

What is not based on truth and love will wither away....

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Sun, 13 Sep 2009 #1
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

In life, whether it is personal relationships, or organized activities of humanbeings such as religion,governments, political parties, interest-organizations, commercial firms, whatever, where, man interacts with one another, there is an immense need for harmony and truth and love. If truth and love are missing, harmony actually does not exist and hence the result of such interactivity would become failure and wither away. This appears to me the law of NATURE.
You are welcome to give your points of view here.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Mon, 14 Sep 2009 #2
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

Is each human being a fragment or is the fragmentation in the brain only?

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Mon, 14 Sep 2009 #3
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
Is each human being a fragment or is the fragmentation in the brain only?

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Mon, 14 Sep 2009 #4
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Fragment can be defined as " part broken off, detached piece, isolated or incomplete part, remainder of lost or destroyed whole". In terms of the society one lives in , one is a fragment.But what goes on constantly is obviously endless fragmentation!- a quote from JK:"we live within a very small fragment of the vast field of the mind.... unless we bring about a radical change in this fragmentation there can be no revolution at all.Culture and society have hypnotized us.When you say I am an Hindu, etc, you are being mesmerised, hypnotized.Technology is doing exactly the same thing.You can be a clever lawyer, a first class Engineer, or an artist, or a great scientist,but always within a fragment of the whole"KRISHNAMURTI,J. THE AWAKENING OF INTELLIGENCE- London,1973,Victor Gollancz Ltd.pages-189-190.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Tue, 15 Sep 2009 #5
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

I am asking you. I am questioning what will wither away.

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Tue, 15 Sep 2009 #6
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
I am asking you. I am questioning what will wither away.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Tue, 15 Sep 2009 #7
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Peter Stephens,
What withers away is the relationship in personal life. You can take the example of relationship of a daughter/son to parents or vice versa or between couples or between siblings. The same goes to apply for the COLLECVTIVE in the the name of any organized activity by humanbeings.The structures crumble- take communism,
capitalism, religions Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity etc. Take the political movements- the same--- that is what I mean here with this topic. Nature has slow but steady way of establishing Truth&Love&Harmony. This is my view from my limited experience on this Earth.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 16 Sep 2009 #8
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

Yes and I am asking does all actually wither away or is it a withering away in the brain?

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Wed, 16 Sep 2009 #9
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
Yes and I am asking does all actually wither away or is it a withering away in the brain?

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 16 Sep 2009 #10
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Peter Stephens,
As I mentioned earlier the human interactions based on relationships wither away-their structural entities or organizations crumble and wither away.The individual human brain is ,as you know ,organically bound towards decay and death-that is obvious. This little humanbrain is just a fine instrument that tunes up with many things known to man as well as unknown to man.Man does not pay attention to
safeguard it from toxicity, injuries and overload and misuse. My emphasis here is how only truth and love can sustain the harmony in relationships amongst humanbeings. You can just reflect on your own family members inter-relationships...... to find some concrete input... that is what I found through my "JOINT-FAMILY"(the Indian way of family)

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sat, 19 Sep 2009 #11
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

Sorry, i am giving my point of view as you asked. What you say is apparently not a law of Nature, but a family interaction. Did you want to be clear about that, or let it go?

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Sat, 19 Sep 2009 #12
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
Sorry, i am giving my point of view as you asked. What you say is apparently not a law of Nature, but a family interaction. Did you want to be clear about that, or let it go?

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sat, 19 Sep 2009 #13
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Stephens, It is your view
.
I have my own opinion. We may not agree. That is all to it

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sun, 20 Sep 2009 #14
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

I am not happy with disagreement, am I? isn't that why i have such things called family, nature?

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Sun, 20 Sep 2009 #15
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

What are you implying? facts do not disappear whether one is happay or unhappy.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sun, 20 Sep 2009 #16
Thumb_avatar Paul Lanzon United Kingdom 24 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:
If truth and love are missing, harmony actually does not exist and hence the result of such interactivity would become failure and wither away. This appears to me the law of NATURE

Hi Krishnan, If by love you mean that which is totally unmotivated, comes from NOWHERE, but unites all things (dharmas), or maybe reveals that things have never been ununited, (except by thought) then there is nothing more to be said. But we will say more because we are such blabbermouths; love can make you want to communicate, or stay quiet.

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:
If truth and love are missing, harmony actually does not exist and hence the result of such interactivity would become failure and wither away. This appears to me the law of NATURE

This post was last updated by Paul Lanzon Mon, 21 Sep 2009.

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Sun, 20 Sep 2009 #17
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Lanzon wrote:
Hi Krishnan, If by love you mean that which is totally unmotivated, comes from NOWHERE, but unites all things (dharmas), or maybe reveals that things have never been ununited, (except by thought) then there is nothing more to be said. But we will say more because we are such blabbermouths; love can make you want to communicate, or stay quiet.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sun, 20 Sep 2009 #18
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Yes Paul! I appreciate what you have rightly pointed out defining Love as such- I may add here incidentally how I came upon this topic. I have been thinking one day recently on my relationships within my family, society and in general the world in which I am born, I am living etc. That night, in the dream, I was repeating these words that makes the topic.Next morning I remembered clearly these words and noted them down. They seemed appropriate to my personal life and then I thought I will share with others these words,As JK says:"Truth has no opposite nor has love.
The "true" is not the opposite of the false, love is not the opposite of hate."
I prefer staying "Quiet".( even though I posted this topic).

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Mon, 21 Sep 2009 #19
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

I am questioning that love is something needed for interaction, in organisations, in family, in nature. Sorry if i offend you; i think it is a sentiment. I am questioning love is something i attain and make the world a better place.

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Mon, 21 Sep 2009 #20
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Love permeates all over Nature.As Paul Lanzon pointed above it is the unifying nature
or Dharma as he put it.Whether you are able to tune to love that is(available)is your personal nature.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

This post was last updated by Krishnan Srinivasan Fri, 25 Sep 2009.

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Mon, 21 Sep 2009 #21
Thumb_avatar Paul Lanzon United Kingdom 24 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
i think it is a sentiment. I am questioning love is something i attain and make the world a better place.

Hi Peter, The problem seems to be that you are thinking of dualistic love, which, as krishnan pointed out, is merely the other side of hate, and has absolutely no relationship to unmotivated love. You cannot 'will' this love to happen - it is not the result of intention. You are passively 'activated' by it, like a run-down battery that's receiving a charge. It is totally inexplicable. And if it were more common there would be no need of organizations at all - cooperation between people would be second nature - you would not feel seperate from anything.

The big question is: Why is this love such a rare bird? For those who know only dualistic love (which is, as you rightly suggest, just sentiment) this 'rare bird' type will sound like an impossible ideal - and that would be natural since they've never caught even a glimpse of that rare bird. This bird can never flourish where thought dominates, where time is a preoccupation - its breeding habits are determined by a mind at ease in emptiness, unattached to emptiness and awake to the mystery of Being, (not the opposite of non-being).

Peter Stephens wrote:
i think it is a sentiment. I am questioning love is something i attain and make the world a better place.

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Tue, 22 Sep 2009 #22
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Lanzon wrote:
Why is this love such a rare bird? For those who know only dualistic love (which is, as you rightly suggest, just sentiment) this 'rare bird' type will sound like an impossible ideal - and that would be natural since they've never caught even a glimpse of that rare bird.

Ok but i am looking at the idea of 'withering away'. It is putting up a hope of virtuous life for the self, who can die happy thinking the eternal is all. It is this world and man in it that is dying. It is man who can be responsible now.

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Thu, 24 Sep 2009 #23
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
It is man who can be responsible now.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Thu, 24 Sep 2009 #24
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Yes.Just be....

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sat, 26 Sep 2009 #25
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

Can we go a little deeper. Just be says to me I can relax, my ordinary actions will be ok, as long as I am not a criminal, not a vicious man, etc. But it is all of my actions to date which is the world as it is. Why do I think i can understand responsibility?

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Sat, 26 Sep 2009 #26
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
Can we go a little deeper. Just be says to me I can relax, my ordinary actions will be ok, as long as I am not a criminal, not a vicious man, etc. But it is all of my actions to date which is the world as it is. Why do I think i can understand responsibility?

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sat, 26 Sep 2009 #27
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Peter Stephens,
You cannot change an iota of the world around you nor can you change ,so just BE!
All talk of responsibility is chatter ,not Quietitude. YOU ARE THE LI/O/VING PRESENCE! JUST BE AS YOU ARE!

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sat, 26 Sep 2009 #28
Thumb_jan09_012 Peter Stephens Australia 16 posts in this forum Offline

Your advice is highly doubtful. Don't think of it as personal. Are you saying there is no conditioning, no suffering?

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Sat, 26 Sep 2009 #29
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Stephens wrote:
Are you saying there is no conditioning, no suffering?

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sat, 26 Sep 2009 #30
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

'
I am not saying a thing.Who am I to tell you anything?Have you got anywhere with your suffering until now that you can prevent like Buddha all desires and the consequent sufferings for the "future" ?

JK might have pointed out this" conditioning "business.You are connecting it to suffering etc. All I am asking you is to just be.Is that difficult?Otherwise you must tell me what are your plans.As far as I am concerned I am " TO BE SILENT."

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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