Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Mon, 20 Jul 2009 #91
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 23 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:

J. Krishnamurti said:
"A man rich with worldly riches, or a man rich in knowledge and belief, will never know anything but darkness, and will be the center of all mischief and misery." [J. Krishnamurti]

Dear K,

I find it's the rare man or woman who is rich with deeply penetrating Knowledge of Themselves that soar high into the skies as you once somewhat alluded to.

"We have our roots in the earth, which we have and must have, but we cling or crawl on the earth; only a 'Few' soar into the skies. They Are The Only Creative And Happy People. The rest spoil and destroy each other on this lovely earth, by hurt and likewise gossip." (J. Krishnamurti)

Bob M.


Hi, Bob,

Could you tell me which of his writings contain the quotes. I don't have much of a library, so probably I don't have it.

max

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Tue, 21 Jul 2009 #92
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
Hi, Bob,
Could you tell me which of his writings contain the quotes. I don't have much of a library, so probably I don't have it.

Hi Max,

The first one I will try to find the source. Though trust me it is an authentic and undoctored K quote. And one I've only recently discovered. The second one ("few soar into the skies") I know definitely comes from 'J. Krishnamurti: A Biography' by Pupul Jayakar. And I think was from a letter to Pupul's sister in the 40s. I'm not presently at home or I could be more exact here.

I have a total of 33 books by or about K. And I've been studying some of them, with lapses of course, for some 30 years. Though the past two years I've really been heavy in study of many of them and also obtaining and researching new ones. I especially like biographies.

I think here of reading 'K: The Years of Awakening' by Mary Lutyens many years ago sensing deeply and mysteriously that this man K was indeed on to something very rare yet very real. Today I have a full and deep understanding of just what that was or is. And like K I too wish to share it with the world.

Bob M.

Update: The first quote ("A man rich with") is from the following source:

1952, 5th Public Talk, Madras. ?The Collected Works of J. Krishnamurti, Vol VI

or: 'The Book of Life' - Feb. 7th

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Tue, 21 Jul 2009.

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Tue, 21 Jul 2009 #93
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 23 posts in this forum Offline

Thanks. I'll have to say, those didn't sound at all like K quotes to me. Guess I haven't read enough. The wording sounded a little strong--condemning the rich like that, for instance. The center of ALL mischief and misery? Maybe some, maybe a lot. But ALL?

max

This post was last updated by max greene Wed, 22 Jul 2009.

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Wed, 22 Jul 2009 #94
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

K said some powerful things over the many years Max. Though I think he sometimes got carried away or a bit too heavy with some of his observations, along with often being quite reckless with his verbage.

How do you feel about his remark that only a 'few' soar into the skies?

Bob M.

"Those who have wealth, position, and authority are not happy people." (J. K. - 'TOTT')

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Wed, 22 Jul 2009.

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Wed, 22 Jul 2009 #95
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 23 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:

K said some powerful things over the many years Max. Though I think he sometimes got carried away or a bit too heavy with some of his observations, along with often being quite reckless with his verbage.

How do you feel about his remark that only a 'few' soar into the skies?

Bob M.

"Those who have wealth, position, and authority are not happy people." (J. K. - 'TOTT')


I'd say it this way: Only a few will come to understanding.

That is not the same as saying that the many cannot--it's just that they won't. But there are probably people who are so heavily conditioned or so commited to some way of life that the "soaring" K is talking about is extremely unlikely for them.

Your second quote, "Those who have wealth . . . " probably refers to the problem of commitment. The rich, whether it be rich in terms of money, belief, physical ability, political status, or whatever, are tied to that to which they have commited their lives. They are unhappy because they are constantly worried about adding to their wealth, or protecting it, or having it lost or diminished, or losing status with their peers. And then, also, they've spent their entire lives gaining "wealth" in some field or other. This just might be enough to make them unhappy, if they stop to think about it.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Wed, 22 Jul 2009.

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Thu, 23 Jul 2009 #96
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
I'd say it this way: Only a few will come to understanding. That is not the same as saying that the many cannot--it's just that they won't. But there are probably people who are so heavily conditioned or so commited to some way of life that the "soaring" K is talking about is extremely unlikely for them.

Thanks Max. The thought just came to me that we often talk about awareness. I wonder if even those among us who do have a good deal of awareness, are still not fully or completely aware of the exact nature of the present human condition or problem? And that perhaps even K was not totally aware of it either? And that unless we are totally aware of the nature of the human dilemma, we'll simply continue to remain largely a part of it and thereby be doing nothing of any real help to alleviate it? One too wants to add here whether looking deeply into the Truth, which is the great liberator according to K and all the religions and philosophies, requires a tremendous amount of courage? And whether this is the primary reason that even the best of souls, so to speak, never breakthrough? That perhaps virtually all of us lack the courage or the stomach for the Truth?

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Thu, 23 Jul 2009 #97
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 23 posts in this forum Offline

I wonder if it's a matter of courage. If you see something absolutely, you don't need courage, you just do what it takes. Courage isn't the opposite of cowardice--they are a continuum in which each contains the other.

I'd say that awareness is the great liberator. It's also the great separator. To be aware of something, you have to be separate from it.

max

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Fri, 24 Jul 2009 #98
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:

I wonder if it's a matter of courage. If you see something absolutely, you don't need courage, you just do what it takes. Courage isn't the opposite of cowardice--they are a continuum in which each contains the other.

I'd say that awareness is the great liberator. It's also the great separator. To be aware of something, you have to be separate from it.


Max, I asked initially whether even those who have a "good dead of awareness" could still be blind to the exact nature of the human condition or problem. And whether Krishnamurti may not have been totally aware of it either.

And I would ask here whether the reason he failed in his life's mission was because of this?

And regarding courage, it's my view or awareness that very, very few people, if any, have the courage for taking a complete and totally honest self-inventory. Or to be fully "self-critically aware", as K once nicely put it. Actually I think such a rigorous self-examination would be fatal to most (though fortunately for the sake of the species not all) people. And that the unwillingness or incapacity by the multitude to become totally self-honest is why man everywhere continues to live in the darkness of lies and self-deception.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Fri, 24 Jul 2009 #99
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 23 posts in this forum Offline

Let's call it a day on this, Bob. Thanks for your responses.

max

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Sat, 25 Jul 2009 #100
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Bob and Max are tired or tied up, I do"`nt know. But I am concerned with the pattern emerging in our hero"s responses to emergencies related to the eternal "race" question in American politics.Our hero President Obama frets and fumbles, smoothes out feelings later on. He may not get bogged down in this so- called "race-prolem".To keep his cool and delay his responses, would be better for him in the long run. Any comments,dear Americans...

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sun, 26 Jul 2009 #101
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:

Let's call it a day on this, Bob. Thanks for your responses.


Very well Max. I understand. Seems here in this discussion forum and everywhere for that matter, as was the case with Krishnamurti as time went on, that I too can find no one anywhere who has the courage or the willingness to inquire deep into the innermost core of themselves and the human condition or problem, and consequently the solution. No one who is willing to give up all of their old conditioned ideas and completely die to the security of the known and then look deep into the abyss, the void. Which from my own experience and the teachings of Krishnamurti must surely be done if one is to ever soar high into the skies. Nevertheless I shall continue to search for such rare souls who are both able and willing to go to any length to find that state of liberation and psychic or soul centeredness that Krishnamurti and I have attained to, and help them to do the same.

Lastly, I leave here a powerful quote by Krishnamurti which I feel I have a deeper understanding of than he did. One that will help direct my path ahead.

"To love is the greatest thing in life; and it is very important to talk about love, to feel it, to nourish it, to treasure it, otherwise it is soon dissipated, for the world is very brutal. If while you are young you don't feel love, if you don't look with love at people, at animals, at flowers, when you grow up you will find that your life is empty; you will be very lonely, and the dark shadows of fear will always follow you." (J. Krishnamurti - 'Think On These Things')

Enjoy your days Max. Very soon Love and Understanding are finally coming to our dark, fallen, and chaotic world.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Mon, 27 Jul 2009 #102
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

Bob and Max are tired or tied up, I don't know. But I am concerned with the pattern emerging in our hero's responses to emergencies related to the eternal "race" question in American politics.Our hero President Obama frets and fumbles, smoothes out feelings later on. He may not get bogged down in this so- called "race-problem".To keep his cool and delay his responses, would be better for him in the long run. Any comments,dear Americans...


Hello Krishnan,

Bob is rarely ever tired. He may get tired of certain things and even certain people from time to time, but that immense energy and intelligence that K experienced and spoke of never fades in him for long. I think the real kicker, so to speak, in this whole silly, overblown, and quite frankly childish matter (in this land where all sorts of foolish drama reigns supreme - not to mention that it also pays very well) is Mr. Obama's inviting the two parties to the White House to for a beer to talk it over. Why the need for a beer I would ask? To "talk it over on beer stools" I think was said. Why not over a glass of water on a kitchen chair? Alcohol and drugs (both self and professionally prescribed), including nicotine and caffeine, are what's fast helping to take this nation to it's knees. Though I'm totally convinced that we're already far beyond the point of no return. It's widely and to a degree rightly proclaimed that "America runs on Dunkin'."However I feel the greater truth is that America runs very largely on drugs and alcohol. And from the bottom to the very top.

Any serious reader of Krishnamurti surely knows how he felt about any and all drugs and self-centered actions and behaviors. Yet recovery from addiction to mood-altering substances and other addictive, though also falsely comforting, behavior patterns is possible for some of us. Those relatively few with finely-formed and sensitive neurological constructs. Though for most this is not the case. And I can't place our President, leader, and shining example(?) in the favorable group here. Seems rather clear to me that his broken home and latter-day upbringing may have left him with a brilliant and knowledgeable mind (though one that has a need to prove outwardly that its beholder is a good and worthwhile human being since inwardly that feeling is just not there), but one that is surely fragmented and incapable of ever finding wisdom, understanding, and love or right-action/direction for himself or his country. Quite frankly there is no longer any right-action or direction for the U.S. that will help it, save for a total meltdown of some sort, which is soon ahead, and most likely nuclear in nature. The fallen altruistic, egalitarian, and democratic "give 'em all a drink" mentality which prevails everywhere, and in more ways than one, along with a near-total moral failure, has irrevocably sealed its doom.

Surely racial issues continue to exist here in this country, but by and large the real underlying issues in many cases is extremely fragile pride and egos. Which have been so deeply conditioned into all of us that again we're at the point of no return and with no hope or chance of restoration to collective sanity. I'm starting to feel that all those under the age of 50, save for a few exceptions here and there, have been born into such a near-totally rotten, corrupt, immoral, and self-centered society that they cannot sense at all the falseness in either themselves or the society that surrounds them. Nor do they possess any true perspectives on values. This is surely not to imply that those over 50 are all necessarily capable of transformation to sanity or soundness of mind and body. Since most of them, including even the highly sensitive ones among them through various 'tricks', have remained stuck in the patterns of self-centeredness for too long which allowed for crystallization of the brain or mind and feelings to take place. Permitting for them also no exit, no liberation, no salvation. No return to love and understanding.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Mon, 27 Jul 2009.

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Mon, 27 Jul 2009 #103
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:
No return to love and understanding.
Bob M.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Mon, 27 Jul 2009 #104
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:
No return to love and understanding.
Bob M.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #105
Thumb_avatar Monic Devi United States 9 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

But I am concerned with the pattern emerging in our heros responses to emergencies related to the eternal "race" question in American politics.Our hero President Obama frets and fumbles, smoothes out feelings later on. He may not get bogged down in this so- called "race-prolem".To keep his cool and delay his responses, would be better for him in the long run. Any comments,dear Americans...


Krishnan, apparently President Obama did get "bogged down", somewhat, but he handled it fairly well,(as usual). In view of the available facts, it was a stupid act of the police officer to arrest Mr. Gates. There was no crime committed, that was evident.

Depending on the indivdual, environment and nation, racism exists. Racism in America has suddenly become more apparent in the recent months.

the superficiality of existence is thriving

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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #106
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

Robert Michael wrote:
No return to love and understanding.
Bob M.


Indeed there'll be no return to love and understanding for the vast multitude Krishnan. Things which, instead of being rightly and deeply nurtured or conditioned into us, were unfortunately completely and permanently stripped from most of us. As a result, mankind collectively has fallen or deteriorated to a point where the dehumanization, neurological desensitization, or robotization of the human species has become nearly total and is also irreparable in most people. Consequently the number of the 'elect', or those who are truly salvageable or transformable, has become ever so few and also far between.

"To love is the greatest thing in life; and it is very important to talk about love, to feel it, to nourish it, to treasure it, otherwise it is soon dissipated, for the world is very brutal. If while you were young you don't feel love, if you don't look with love at people, at animals, at flowers, when you grow up you will find that your life is empty; you will be very lonely, and the dark shadows of fear will follow you always. But the moment you have in your heart this extraordinary thing called love and feel the depth of it, you will discover that for you the world is transformed." (J. Krishnamurti - 'Think On These Things')

Sorry for being repetitive here Krishnan, but this simple, though powerful, view of K's sums up for me the whole essence of the 'teachings'. And I find that all other talk or discussion is a thing of vanity or is on a superficial and meaningless psychological, rational, analytical, logical, or theoretical level and reflects and reinforces neurological fragmentation and thereby serves only to perpetuate the human condition or problem. Hence, as K has alluded to above, only the discussion of love, its re-establishment, and the nature of that mystical dimension of being that accompanies it, along too with what is not love will be of any real value in bringing the Light of Love and Understanding into the world. And since love, in order to truly be love, must also contain truth and right-action, the discussion of these things and their opposites will also be very vital for the saving of the species, or more correctly a small portion thereof.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #107
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Bob, I am in tune with what you said even though you call it" repetitive", it is what is required of us all-LOVE&UNDERSTANDING &CARE. Thank you once agin.
Warm regards,
Krishnan

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #108
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Monic Devi wrote:
Krishnan, apparently President Obama did get "bogged down", somewhat, but he handled it fairly well,(as usual). In view of the available facts, it was a stupid act of the police officer to arrest Mr. Gates. There was no crime committed, that was evident.
Depending on the indivdual, environment and nation, racism exists. Racism in America has suddenly become more apparent in the recent months.

Hi Monic,

I think what we really have here is a guy who's too stupid to know that he's at the helm of a hopelessly lost and fast-sinking ship calling other people stupid. Much like the pot calling the kettle black or the blind leading the blind, if you will. Seems nothing's really changed all that much in 2000 years.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein)

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Thu, 30 Jul 2009.

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Thu, 30 Jul 2009 #109
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

Dear Bob, I am in tune with what you said even though you call it" repetitive", it is what is required of us all - LOVE & UNDERSTANDING & CARE. Thank you once again.
Warm regards,
Krishnan


Very well and the same to you Krishnan. Though my primary concern is where on earth would be the best place to form a body of people who could and would fully immerse themselves in the "eternal" and become the "flame". One like K set out to create in 1929 (see below) but seems to have got sidetracked as time went on, and consequently failed to do. Let's say an English speaking country which may still contain some people who are not so deeply-conditioned that they are brain-damaged beyond repair. A country that's not yet thoroughly morally and spiritually degenerate and thereby still contains a few sensitive, serious, and sincere people who are capable of undergoing a radical transformation of mind and heart and then successfully making the return to Love and Understanding. And also a country that's in such a position or location that it could survive the impending and necessary grand global nuclear cleansing. Any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated Krishnan.

"But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without beginning and without an end, will walk together with a greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. SUCH A BODY WE MUST CREATE, AND THAT IS MY PURPOSE. Because of that real understanding there will be true friendship. Because of that true friendship ? which you do not seem to know ? there will be real cooperation on the part of each one. And this not because of authority, not because of salvation, not because of immolation for a cause, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice." (J. Krishnamurti - 'Dissolution Speech')

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Thu, 30 Jul 2009 #110
Thumb_avatar Monic Devi United States 9 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:
Hi Monic,
I think what we really have here is a guy who's too stupid to know that he's at the helm of a hopelessly lost and fast-sinking ship calling other people stupid. Much like the pot calling the kettle black or the blind leading the blind, if you will. Seems nothing's really changed all that much in 2000 years.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein)
Bob M.

Hi Bob,
I found the officer's act stupid, (senseless) because the skills and knowledge one acquires in their profession is utilized within their capacity of professional conduct. Part of a police officer's duty is to arrest an individual when a crime is committed. There was no crime committed, nor was there any evidence of a crime committed.

You, in your posts, speak much of love and compassion Bob. Your message here is of condemnation. To condemn a man who has undertaken a task of monumental proportion is a bit ironic (putting it mildly). Considering the edge this nation is on, he may not be successful but in time we'll know.
You feel this historical moment is a stupid act to undertake, a failing, collapsing nation, whereas some may think it is quite a challenge.

And as for Mr. Einstein, well, he incorporated his wife's knowledge and work in his own work and took all the credit himself.

the superficiality of existence is thriving

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Fri, 31 Jul 2009 #111
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dear Monic,

Unless someone was at the scene of the incident, they can't possibly know what really took place. And chances are very good that even if there were many witnesses at the scene they would all have different views of the matter due to their own bias, prejudice, cowardice, dishonesty, etc. I'd say very likely all the parties were stupid, dishonest, and immature regarding the whole matter. And also feel that if there were one truly mature and manly person there among the 3 or 4 who were there, they would have defused the incident immediately. And I'll let it rest at that. I surely don't need to seek a sense of security or rightness by being on any side of an argument or even winning it, as do most people, including yourself I wonder here? And without even being a first-hand witness. Nor do I have any axe to grind over the matter.

I've really condemned no one. I've only pointed out my feelings, views, or opinions on the matter. Or the truth of the matter as I see it. No one can ever truly condemn another. The great and often fatal condemner is really our early childhood conditioning. Whereby our mind or brain should ideally be, but more often is not, developed to be able to rightly discern the truth of any given matter, and especially the truth about ourselves and our actions. Rigorous 'SELF'-honesty being the key to the "Kingdom of Happiness".

Over the many years people have often told me certain unpleasant (or "condemning" if you will) truths about myself. Which I usually didn't really wish or care to hear and were generally quickly ignored. However upon eventually reaching and then hitting a bottom of great SELF-contempt or self-disgust, whereby I experienced a revolutionary spiritual awakening experience, I've slowly but surely become a serious and dedicated seeker of the truth. Which had to begin with myself and which continues to set me freer and freer and freer. Free from the bondage of the conditioned self. And it has also restored that wonderous dimension of love back into my heart and life again. I've also acquired along the way the courage to point out the faults in others, as I clearly know that these faults are keeping them too from living in the Sunlight of the Spirit. Which in some cases, but surely not all, may eventually bring a thank you from them. Not that it really matters all that much.

If you look carefully Monic, you'll notice that I've said previously that in order for love to be truly love (and the same goes with compassion), it must always contain truth and right action and regardless of how others may feel about it. Or for sure a sincere and active and ongoing desire and willingness to develop and unendingly grow in the ways of truth and righteousness. And regardless of how unpleasant, painful, or even "devastating", as K once put it, it may be. 'First seek the truth and the truth shall make you free'; and it will also fill one's heart with joy, peace, and goodness. And surely this simple fact, direction, or teaching is as old as time.

I won't debate or argue with your views on Einstein, though I'll say here that I feel he fell considerably short as a husband, father, friend, and lover. And also had within himself some human stupidity. As do we all. Which really doesn't depreciate his remark on human stupidity. Since often people can be very rightly know the truth about life and others, yet are incapable of fully grasping and living it in their own lives. He too I find was a good example that a brilliant mind is not always a sound, sane, or down-to-earth mind. One must always be aware of and certain to be rooting out all hypocricy and self-delusion that lies within himself. That is if he's sensitive and courageous enough to sense it. I feel K too was having difficulty maintaining his own sanity and feelings of joy and goodness as time went on and he seemingly stopped being "self-critically aware", as he rightly encouraged others to do. Along with being not completely open and honest about his very own life, which he seemed to think, though wrongly, was not important. And clearly this shortcoming of his, as I see it, came home to roost in the end.

And once again true friends, because they have love in their heart for others, will point these often unpleasant things or truths about others out to them. Since with love comes a responsibility for others wholeness and well-being. Though love also knows that most people really don't want to hear such things, and thereby he will learn to act accordingly.

Yet in this present dark and decaying world, virtually everyone everywhere is, instead of seeking the truth about themselves or of any other given matter, merely taking sides and co-signing lies and monkey business, both their own and others. Which serves only to keep them and our world in the darkness. And such activity will soon take our country (for certain) down the road to complete destruction. Actually we're already well on our way, and yet most people are too caught up in themselves and their own baggage or wreckage and selfish interests to see this simple fact.

What Obama and the vast bulk of our leaders can't seem to get through their thick, or deeply, and in most cases fatally conditioned or fragmented, heads is that morality, decency, goodness, and honesty cannot be legislated. And most surely not if those who set themselves up as the legislators have loads of skeletons or unresolved past wreckage in their own closets. Along with lacking a true understanding of the meaning of commonwealth and the true sharing and enjoyment of it. I would add here that NO man or woman can save our country via politics. And K also made this point absolutely clear, Monic.

So it will continue on that multitudes of hurt or wounded (many of them neurologically damaged) and thereby insensitive and violent people (due to no fault of their own but rather their corrupt, loveless, and irreparable childhood conditioning) will go on hurting and wounding others and our beautiful earth, along with themselves in return, until it all, or nearly all, finally goes up in smoke. Though again, I look to eventually form a relatively small body of people who can and will fully rise above the darkness of it all and which will be protected and then collectively move the finally finished and perfected human species forward. Which will be humanity's final saving grace, if you will.

The happy, joyous, and free Self-Knower or Self-Overcomer is he or she who has come sparkingly clean in regards to the many dark truths about themselves and all of their past, without which there'll be no real development of right-action now or in the future. And, having set these things straight, one is thereby able to look the world in the eye and with the greatest sincerity and absolute certainy be able to say to others, "come, follow me!" And some will indeed be coming. Those few who will be capable of rigorous self-honesty and thereby also able to become a bright shining light unto themselves and others. Then it will become, "come, follow us!"

Lastly Monic, let me ask you this. Do you feel you are totally free of any need or tendency to be an apologist for mediocrity, or the darkness? Is your closet free of all skeletons? Do you feel you are truly a light unto yourself and others, or are very sincerely and at all costs trying to be so? Have you ever experienced a radical or revolutionary awakening and/or total change of mind and heart experience?

Where on earth are those who are willing to take a long, hard look at themselves and are then willing to also answer all the questions one might possibly ask them about themselves and their lives? Instead of focusing solely on the stupidity, blindness, fragmentary nature, dishonesty, etc. of others, or on grand theoretical and analytical schemes and concepts and generally evasive and meaningless "dialoguing" or psycho-babbling about life, love, the teachings, and the truth. Granted, I point out the flaws in others, though I do it from a position of rigorous, fearless, and thorough self-knowing. Along with deep understanding, love, and compassion. Or knowing absolutely that be it good, bad, or downright ugly, whatever is - most certainly is and will always remain so in the majority of cases. Which I feel places myself or any like-minded others beyond K and even many others who also walked in that rare and extraordinary dimension of existence that very, very few among us ever find.

Finally Monic, if we're to ever really help others find their way to the Promised Land, we must first truly have a good footing therein ourselves. If not, we'll simply continue to be a part of the wall-to-wall or universal "blind leading the blind." While we ourselves will continue to remain in the ditch or the darkness with them. Which brings this last and final thought; misery now-a-days not only loves company, it very often demands it, and it usually succeeds in getting it. Such is the nature of the fallen human species.

Bob M.

"What is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil." (Nietzsche)

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Fri, 31 Jul 2009.

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Fri, 31 Jul 2009 #112
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Where in the world are they who "Beautify the Earth"? Those rare Free-Spirits ("free human beings")? Those who are genuinely happy and live life to the fullest? Surely they can't be among the many who are greedy or ambitious or involved in religion or politics. As K clearly points out below.

"You are on this earth to live fully, happily with your whole being,
free of ambition, greed and fear. If you are greedy or ambitious, you
cannot live fully, because greed and ambition dissipate your energy.
To live fully is to live without fear, without sorrow, without asking
a thing of the gods, because you would be a light unto yourself. When
you live fully - a light unto yourself - you will not follow anybody,
you will have no nationality, or belong to any religious or political
group. As you would be a 'free human being' it would, therefore, be
possible to live in this world richly, whether you have little or
much and, in that very active living you would 'beautify the earth'." (J. Krishnamurti)

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009 #113
Thumb_avatar Monic Devi United States 9 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:
Lastly Monic, let me ask you this. Do you feel you are totally free of any need or tendency to be an apologist for mediocrity, or the darkness? Is your closet free of all skeletons? Do you feel you are truly a light unto yourself and others, or are very sincerely and at all costs trying to be so? Have you ever experienced a radical or revolutionary awakening and/or total change of mind and heart experience?

Hello Robert.
Although there has been change, still, there is some work to be done.

I find great harmony in nature and am in peace with my environment.With that said, I must be headed in the right direction.
I don't lead, nor do I follow for it is against my nature and my constitution.

Kind Regard,
Monic

the superficiality of existence is thriving

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Mon, 03 Aug 2009 #114
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Monic Devi wrote:
Hello Robert. Although there has been change, still, there is some work to be done.
I find great harmony in nature and am in peace with my environment.With that said, I must be headed in the right direction. I don't lead, nor do I follow for it is against my nature and my constitution.
Kind Regard, Monic

Hi Monic,

Very well, but I think the real key here is whether you've undergone that radical shift in consciousness or complete change of heart and mind that K insisted was very necessary, at least in his earlier years. And which I too find very vital. From my own personal experiences and those of others who traveled that road that's so very seldom tread upon.

So far as leading or following, I find the key here is to learn to sort through all the old tapes, so to speak, that haven't brought continuous joy and peace of mind into your life, and then begin to follow the desires of your own heart. And to allow no one or no thing to sway you from this course. And especially not the politicians or the preachers or any of their self-serving 'monkey-shines' (my dear old Dad often used this term). At best these and many other present-day people and things should merely be considered very largely necessary evils. And will soon become obsolete.

The direction in life, or the calling of life, or natural law, for those who are sensitive and have that core foundation of love and joy firmly planted in them is to be true to one's own self, one's own authentic self-nature.

And since we've all been conditioned out of being an authentic self to varying degrees, and from our earliest days, making that return is the goal and greatest challenge of life. Finding out through trial and error just what sort of words, thoughts, and deeds or actions are authentic human behavior. The journey of self-realization, as one might too call it, must become an absolute priority in our lives if we're ever to make that return again to love and joy. The seed of which, more so than a God, is calling us highly-sensitive people back 'home' again.

Below is a link to an article on this matter that some friends of mine found insightful and helpful:

http://www.innerself.com/Commentary/becoming_an...

Best of success in your journey Monic! At 28 you still got the spark of youth on your side. Good for you!

Bob M.

"Love and do as you will, and there will be right-action."
(J.Krishnamurti)

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Tue, 04 Aug 2009.

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Tue, 04 Aug 2009 #115
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Question: Is it possible for any of us, who are living in this particular society, to bring about the change of which you are talking?

Krishnamurti: If we as individuals do not bring about this change, how is it to be done? If you and I, living in this society, do not do it, who will? The powerful, the millionaires, the people of great possessions are not going to do it. It must surely be done by 'Ordinary People' like you and me ? and I am not saying this rhetorically, stupidly. If you and I see the importance of this change, then it is not courage but the very perception of the importance of change which will bring it about. A man may have the courage to stand against the dictates of society, but it is the man who understands the complex problem of change, who 'Understands' the whole structure of society ? which is himself ? it is he alone who becomes an individual and is not merely a representative of the collective. Only the individual who is not 'Caught in Society' can fundamentally affect society.

"We must find out - if it is possible or not - whether there is a different dimension, a 'Different Approach', to life altogether." (J. Krishnamurti)


My "understanding" of the "whole structure of society" is that they have all become so thoroughly corrupt or rotten (as K also put it) that radical or effective change within them or to them cannot possibly take place, either individually or collectively. The only hope for the human species is the forming of a genuinely 'Awakened or Enlightened Society' in fresh or pure waters somewhere that are far removed from the totally polluted mainstreams of all societies. Or an altogether "different approach", as per K above.

So it remains my view that even the very best of potentially integrative souls cannot fully breakthrough and then stay clearly above the wall-to-wall darkness. And also that even the best of awakened or enlightened men and women who have thus far appeared, including K, have sooner or later themselves been overcome by the darkness and its ways, or got "caught in society" again.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Tue, 04 Aug 2009.

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Wed, 05 Aug 2009 #116
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:
If we as individuals do not bring about this change, how is it to be done? If you and I, living in this society, do not do it, who will? The powerful, the millionaires, the people of great possessions are not going to do it. It must surely be done by 'Ordinary People' like you and me ? and I am not saying this rhetorically, stupidly. If you and I see the importance of this change, then it is not courage but the very perception of the importance of change which will bring it about. A man may have the courage to stand against the dictates of society, but it is the man who understands the complex problem of change, who 'Understands' the whole structure of society ? which is himself ? it is he alone who becomes an individual and is not merely a representative of the collective. Only the individual who is not 'Caught in Society' can fundamentally affect society.
"We must find out - if it is possible or not - whether there is a different dimension, a 'Different Approach'

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 05 Aug 2009 #117
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Former President Clinton has had this courage to go for direct communication with North korean leaders and achieved the release of two americans and set in motion a dialogue process, which I hope would diffuse poltical tensions.So all is not lost for OBAMA & Americans yet---there is" hope"

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 05 Aug 2009 #118
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

Former President Clinton has had this courage to go for direct communication with North korean leaders and achieved the release of two americans and set in motion a dialogue process, which I hope would diffuse poltical tensions.So all is not lost for OBAMA & Americans yet---there is" hope"


It's all little more than egoic hype and fluff within the same old worn out dimension, Krishnan. And once again there's no "hope" at all for a political way out of the present darkness. Actually our leaders are going to continue to blindly and choicelessy be instrumental in bringing about the necessary 'abomination that maketh desolate'.

What it's going to take to save a portion of the species is a modern day Noah with a different kind of Ark. A land-based one that will house and shelter some of the 'chosen few' in order that they can safely weather the great storm that's soon ahead.

It's surely going to be a grand and glorious day when all of mankind's self-serving monkey-business finally disappears from the face of the earth, and is replaced with wall-to-wall Love and Understanding. I got some tastes of it already!

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Wed, 05 Aug 2009.

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Wed, 05 Aug 2009 #119
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Bob, I take your point. I was only thinking of willingness to communicate with each other and that takes frankness, spontaneity, open dialogue and a bit of courage.anyway, thanks again for your dominant theme-love&understanding free of corrupt polliticians.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 05 Aug 2009 #120
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Bob, I take your point. I was only thinking of willingness to communicate with each other and that takes frankness, spontaneity, open dialogue and a bit of courage.anyway, thanks again for your dominant theme-love&understanding free of corrupt polliticians.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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