Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
Awareness in our world today | moderated by Krishnan Srinivasan

Observing oneself as observer is observed

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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #1
Thumb_12 madhav mool Nepal 19 posts in this forum Offline

As a quote of Truth and Actuality we are aware in our thinking process as far as possible and we are in conditioned as observer is observed, then how we can be free from conditioned ? Can we think simultaneously about this world.

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Fri, 31 Jul 2009 #2
Thumb_avatar Richard Kover United States 14 posts in this forum Offline

madhav mool wrote:
conditioned as observer is observed

Not sure what you mean by this madhav. Our conditioning is that the observer and observed are separate. Maybe the observer is the observed prior to its division by conditioned reactions, prior to formation of an identity for the observer. The observer may well be the observed when in fact no identity has formed, when no thinker is present in the operation of the brain, or in a moment when conditioning does not assert itself.

madhav mool wrote:
how we can be free from conditioned

I'm not sure we can be or need to be "free from conditioning". Conditioning is a normal function of all sentient beings based on pleasure and pain. The point may be, as with so many other things in life, is it possible to see when conditioning is harmful and when it is necessary in life. Conditioning to avoid an onrushing vehicle or burning hot stove is a good thing. On the other hand, conditioning to indulge pleasurable feelings dulls the mind and contributes to psychoses and destructive tendencies, which may eventually create disaster for the life of the indulgent as well as countless others.

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009 #3
Thumb_12 madhav mool Nepal 19 posts in this forum Offline

Richard,
Yes, this topic is very complex as you describe above, but it is important thing in our lie (in my opinion) because we are worsen day by day by this conditioning, as the matter of fact, Krishnamurti quoted about it to understand relationship with other. We used to be baised moment to moment with our feelings. This is the character of human being. In this concern I used to observe and try to be still and sometimes, I get freedom as if my brain functioning process is in vacuum. Do you feel so ?

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Sun, 02 Aug 2009 #4
Thumb_avatar Richard Kover United States 14 posts in this forum Offline

madhav mool wrote:
it is important thing in our li[f]e

Yes, of course, it is of utmost importance to see the interference of conditioning in human life. And, it seems to me we humans do have moments of 'freedom' in the course of daily life when harmful conditioning ceases to function, but then we have trouble understanding the full implications of such freedom. We probably even fear the freedom since it means the self image loses its dominant role in life. The further implication of freedom is that pursuit of pleasure is a source of conflict and dependence; nevertheless, we resist giving up pleasure, comfort and security for the sake of preserving a self centered existence. It is quite sad really, that we put our lives in bondage just to satisfy an arbitrary image, whether the image is one of a damaged, miserable soul or a triumphant successful being.

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