Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
Awareness in our world today | moderated by Krishnan Srinivasan

Organization per se is not the answer to human problems

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Sun, 26 Jul 2009 #1
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

In Norway(1939?), J.Krishnamurti was asked about Social Wefare and its merits.In that connection he answered the above quote"organization per se is not the answer to human problems". Norwegians,Danes, Swedes constitute the Scandinavian population and they are very proud of their "social-welfare" ,though they pay for it throgh their noses via heavy taxes!Now, President Obama is going on the same line of thinking in USA.Other nations are on similar path.With the impending problems of economic-down-turn, threat of viruses and flus abounding, organizations are finding it difficult to meet their "ideals" & targets. So what is the relevance of organizations among nations ? can they alleviate human suffering? Can they solve poverty, ignorance, disease,pandemics?Should we be content with organizing ourselves into various groups or is there another way to meet these common human problems?Should we form a world Government sans borders sans nations?

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #2
Thumb_avatar Monic Devi United States 9 posts in this forum Offline

Organization is a sign of a civilized society. With organization there is progress and growth, individually and universally. What we need in greater numbers, is complete awareness worldwide. With humanity at a advanced peak of evolution, this is possible. But the greed and power of a few elite will not allow this to happen. Especially in America, where the corporations control the government and the politicans while the large number of Americans sleep.

the superficiality of existence is thriving

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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #3
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Monic Devi wrote:

Organization is a sign of a civilized society. With organization there is progress and growth, individually and universally. What we need in greater numbers, is complete awareness worldwide. With humanity at a advanced peak of evolution, this is possible. But the greed and power of a few elite will not allow this to happen. Especially in America, where the corporations control the government and the politicans while the large number of Americans sleep.


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Wed, 29 Jul 2009 #4
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Monic Devi, you are pointing out that organizations are hindered by a few corporations and elite individuals who are greedy. But I am concerned about the ills brought about in the quality of services rendered in the various sectors of life, for example, here in Denmark where I live.For instance, in the name of Social Welfare, young infants are separated from their mothers &fathers,whole day long and kept under social care, with the longitudinal result of young adults have no upbringing, no emotional stability, violence, drug-abuse, anti-social behaviour are the result of this socialwelfare&care by the Government propped up by ideology & heavy taxes.Nowadays mothers do not know how to handle their own children without an interfering help from the official side.The same goes for the elderly sector-deterioration in the quality of life for the elders. The same goes for health sector.There is bureaucracy replacing Quality Care. So Organization per se is not the answer to human problems, I feel. You may feel different because you live in a capitalistic USA where the Socialistic thinking has not yet taken roots there,thank God for it!Organization must be a LIVING THING. then possibly it can help&thrive and throb with life.Then it can renew itself. If it is an abstract idea from official thinking put into action, it does not function effectively. You can see the United Nations.... wars, diseases, poverty, exploitation, migration in unprecedented scale.... I can go on enumerating the ills
of organizations. Each individual has to change & constantly watch the society they live in.When ONE renews himself/herself, there is a possibility the society is renewed and re-organized. Look at India-Endless corruption...Africa... no end at all.. I am concerned .When I read that JK has already given his opinions on this matter as early as 1939, I was astounded- JK was a visionary who can see CLEARLY!

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Thu, 30 Jul 2009 #5
Thumb_avatar Monic Devi United States 9 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:
are pointing out that organizations are hindered by a few corporations and elite individuals who are greedy.

No. I am stating corporations and a few elites control the government and the politicians.

As for my opinion on "organizations", I speak more on the deeper sense of the word rather than of social institutions as I presume you implied.

I understand your positions quite clearly and empathize with those people who are subjected to such brutal methods. In America we have some Organizations which alleviate human suffering.
I have no direct experience with healthcare in Denmark, but I have travelled the globe and find socialized medicine to be better than what this country has to offer. My recent experience has been in London, Canada, Paris.

Ultimately, fundamentally, I find, change for progress is within the individual which makes up society, organization, governments. If the people do not act, there will be no change.

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Thu, 30 Jul 2009 #6
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Monic Devi wrote:
change for progress is within the individual which makes up society, organization, governments. If the people do not act, there will be no change.

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Thu, 30 Jul 2009 #7
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Very much true. But the so-called-democracy is being high-jacked by a few that constitute the mob with money, and media-manipulators and in some instances thugs or Gundas(as in India). So I have no illusions on Democracy & Society.Any way,Monic, You are young & optimistic, that is very good.I am sad and old and cannot help being pessimistic on these things.

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Thu, 27 Aug 2009 #8
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Todays news in Denmark.In the town called Ballerup near Copenhagen,76 year old person in an old persons home(run by local government) has not had her bath for the past 136 days(a record!) thanks to the organized Welfare!So we cannot solve even ordinary human problems by organizations!

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Fri, 28 Aug 2009 #9
Thumb_avatar Paul Lanzon United Kingdom 24 posts in this forum Offline

Hallo Krishnan & Monic, When I hear the word 'organization' I shiver. I'm sure, however, that there are organizations that work really well, but they are not those that deal with the welfare of people. There is something of a lottery about large organizations which aim at doing 'good'. The education systems, for example in uk, are experts in spreading ignorance and boredom. I spent 21years teaching art (or trying to) in state education and not once did I come across a teacher with even a glimmer of awareness of the issues K discussed. I encountered only 'closed off' mentalities. Yes, there were those with 'good intentions', as usual, and genuinely dedicated and enthusiastic in their own way, but they invariably lacked that insight that makes 'right education' possible.
Organizations are certainly not the answer to human problems; they are the result of human problems. The main problem being the misplacing of thought as the primary, most important factor in life, when it is only a secondary mechanism whose function it is to implement the insights of Intelligence and Compassion, and of course, to construct things that are useful to mankind.

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Sat, 29 Aug 2009 #10
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Lanzon wrote:
Organizations are certainly not the answer to human problems; they are the result of human problems. The main problem being the misplacing of thought as the primary, most important factor in life, when it is only a secondary mechanism whose function it is to implement the insights of Intelligence and Compassion, and of course, to construct things that are useful to

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Sat, 29 Aug 2009 #11
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Very succintly put by you Paul. That is the crux of the problem We need to use thought ,but we must be, all the time watching how it functions inside the organizations. Things are not static,they change constantly, especially among human relationships inside organizations.There is a need for an "ombudsman" inside any organization.The same goes for an individual to watch his/her own thought, is it not, in terms of JK`s awareness?

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