Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Patricia Hemingway's Forum Posts

Forum: Awareness in our world today

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Topic: Can we consider Krishnamurti as continuity of Budha Tue, 10 Nov 2009

To approach the teaching as K laid it down with a brain already full of Veda belief is to NOT approach the teaching with a clear and empty mind.

K negated all belief - including Buddhism. Simple as that.

One can only go deeply into the teaching from a state of emptiness.

Topic: Can we consider Krishnamurti as continuity of Budha Mon, 09 Nov 2009

Paul Lanzon wrote: And if these 'Buddhists' were trying to fit K 'in' then that proves they were acting out of keeping with the true spirit of Buddhism (which is shown at its best in K's work).

K made it very clear that the only manner in which to approach the teaching is with an empty and clear mind.

Topic: Can we consider Krishnamurti as continuity of Budha Mon, 09 Nov 2009

Look at today's quote:

"In talking to groups of listeners all over the world, I find that more and more people seem not to understand what I am saying, because they come with fixed ideas."

And that is what happened in that talk with Buddhists. So busy were they - trying to 'fit K in' - they missed altogether what he was saying. And so it continues.......

Topic: Can we consider Krishnamurti as continuity of Budha Mon, 09 Nov 2009

When the Buddhists asked K a similar question he replied: Why do you compare?

So: Why do you compare?

Topic: Nobel prize for peace to Sri.JK Thu, 05 Nov 2009

ganesan balachandran wrote: There is a need to understand JK with ourselves first and also we have a comitment to inseminate his teachings or propagate. This will become easier if he is awarded nobel prize

Our commitment is to discover and understand quietly and in stillness the truth of the human condition.

Please explain how anyone who would be 'suitably impressed' because K wins a Nobel Peace Prize has even begun to lay the ground for such a serious inquiry into the whole of human corruption.

As K himself said - the teaching is only for the few. Many others will hang around on the edges, trying to fit what he said with their own ideas, beliefs, and their overall sense of importance, and then blame K because it does not/cannot compute.

To consider trying to turn the teaching into a popular movement supported by various prizes and world authorities would seem to be a completely erroneous direction.

Topic: Nobel prize for peace to Sri.JK Wed, 04 Nov 2009

When the UN presented K with a peace prize - some little statue I think it was - he held it behind his back and then sidled back and slipped it on to a table just before he left the room. Some official saw it there a picked it up and hurried off after K as though K had forgotten something really important!

Says it all really Krishnan! :)

Topic: Nobel prize for peace to Sri.JK Wed, 04 Nov 2009

ganesan balachandran wrote: How to initiate this proposal for an award of Nobel prize for Peace to Sri. J.K. Let us prepare the ground for it. One day this is going to come true. gb

K never required approval from the deemed 'authorities' of his day. (Just witness how he tried to secrete away and leave behind on a table the award the UN presented to him - have you seen that?)

I suspect - while it may make his 'followers' happy and reinforced in their 'quest' - a Nobel peace prize is neither here nor there to the teaching - nor to the truth itself.

What use is an award presented by a generally corrupt society to a human being who constantly questioned the whole of corruption?

The desire for such an award implies that truth needs the approval of society - it does not. Society does however need truth! But awards will not bring that about.

Topic: Will there be fruit from the seed of K's Teaching Fri, 30 Oct 2009

mike christani wrote: In other words, don't blame the teachings, and above all don't claim the poor masses need someone more understandable.

My point exactly Mike. It is all there - K has pointed to truth, and those who cannot go there and find out for themselves not only desire to blame K for their own inadequacies, but believe they can give the truth a more agreeable veneer which will mean that now everyone will 'follow' them instead!

Just observe how conditioned humans are to have a 'leader'! One who will 'advance' the teaching (truth) for us! Make it nice and easy perhaps? Well - it just isn't! It is all there in the teaching - nothing more needs to be said - there is only the action of understanding. Action - not theory.

Truth meanwhile remains truth - ever effective - whether understood or not by us mere mortals!

Topic: Will there be fruit from the seed of K's Teaching Fri, 30 Oct 2009

Prasanna P wrote: I think, some day some one who has read K, would advance it further to make it effective.

Truth - which is what K pointed towards - is already 'effective'.

To 'advance' truth would only be to pollute it, which is a fruitless and deceptive effort to make it more palatable.

And it seems there are a few contenders for the position of 'polluter of truth' around here. Certainly it is easier to pollute the truth than to face the fact of it. :)

Topic: Under total awareness, fear changed into bravery&courage Sat, 24 Oct 2009

Prasanna P wrote: I feel simplifying human psychology is far more vital and essential to mankind than most other works of research that are underway.

Forget 'simplifying human psychology'. It is a myth - so end it!

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Thu, 10 Sep 2009

The division between meat-eaters and vegetarians is not 'inward division'. It is a physical fact. We are what we eat - no?

K had many people around him, but all indications are that, at least when they were in his vicinity, they behaved as vegetarians. I wonder - would he have interacted closely with them if he was aware they were flesh-eaters?

Personally - it is not my business what other people choose to consume. But my own observation is that it makes a tremendous difference to flexibility of thought and sensitivity of feeling. And (technical) flexibility is essential to understanding the whole movement of thought.

So I have not made a doctrine about division. There IS one human brain on the planet - a disordered brain. At the root of much of that disorder is meat-eating - a residue of universal cannibalism - the wrong turn. As far as I am concerned - the first step to ending the disorder is to end flesh consumption. You can agree with me or not. It makes no difference. The truth does not depend upon opinion - neither yours NOR mine - it is there regardless.

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Thu, 10 Sep 2009

Robert Michael wrote: but soon I'm afraid there's going to be a lot of killing going on, Krishnan (the necessary grand-cleansing of the planet). So be prepared, be ready. I might even suggest that you repent ! Or perhaps start pointing the finger at oneself.

K said that mankind created god in man's image, then asked god to explain the universe and this sent man mad. What a vengeful 'now-I-am-going-to be-proved-right-when-you-are-all-dead-because-you-didn't-listen-to-me' god is created in Bob M's image here. :D

Really Bob - one cannot even begin to approach the teaching of K until all vestige of such petty-minded judeo-christian conditioning is seen, understood and ended. No wonder you dismiss the later teaching, where K had finally closed all loop-holes for those who would still seek self-gratifying solace in what he said.

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Tue, 08 Sep 2009

Robert Michael wrote: Where did he go wrong, I wonder?

Why suggest death is 'wrong'? It is just an ending - no matter in what form it comes about.

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Tue, 08 Sep 2009

Robert Michael wrote: Again, why then did K, the righteous vegetarian, suffer and die from cancer, Patricia?

The body dies eventually. K was no more immune from death than anyone else. At least he did not contribute to animal suffering during his lifetime.

I am not in a position to judge the manner of K's death. You may believe you are - but be careful - meat-eating can lead to delusions of grandeur! :D

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Tue, 08 Sep 2009

Greg Van Tongeren wrote: Indicators of that might be a judgmental attitude or self-rightious feelings of indignation.

I suggest the "self-righteous feelings of indignation" come from the flesh-eaters. :)

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Mon, 07 Sep 2009

Greg Van Tongeren wrote: But at the same time after a lifetime of eating and enjoying meat, you very much want to consume it and that is an undeniable fact. So there is a conflict between what is and what you think should be and generally the habituated reoccurring urge wins out.

Where did you draw that conclusion Greg? Or perhaps you speak of your own experience?

Unlike Krishnan, I am not a lifelong vegetarian. Over twenty-five years ago I had an insight into the danger of flesh-eating. Since then I have not touched meat, nor have I had any desire at all to do so. So one can only say - it must have been a genuine insight! :)

Greg Van Tongeren wrote: Aren't you minimizing the nature of deeply engrained habits?

Exactly right! For humans, flesh-eating is a habit. The human body - with its long intestinal tract - is not designed for meat-eating. Humans are not flesh-eaters by nature, but rather by habit. Hence many human diseases.

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Mon, 07 Sep 2009

Krishnan - It is interesting to look into the relationship between a vegetarian diet and the old caste system in India. I had a vague awareness of the importance of diet in that system, but have just been reading up on what a large part it played. In fact in many of the ancient cultures diet was an extremely important factor. In that respect, perhaps as far as diet is concerned anyway, humanity is less aware now than then.

If you think about it - mankind seems to 'consume' everything now. And what is your feeling about organ transplants? 'Cannibalism' by any other name surely?

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Mon, 07 Sep 2009

Greg Van Tongeren wrote: If the reason we don't eat something is because we were taught it is very wrong, we may well get sick when we eat it, but that is a conditioned reaction.

It is very easy to find out for oneself whether or not disease, aggression and flesh-eating go together. One only needs to take the action of cutting out all animal flesh from the diet - and observe what takes place.

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Mon, 07 Sep 2009

Robert Michael wrote: My experience is that when some one who possesses a sensitive organism and is thereby is blessed with the gift of life and love, he must ongoingly and ever more perfectly and completely turn his life and his will over to the Greater Will (or continually die to the self in K's terms), or there could very likely be repercussions. And often more than just losing the joy of living.

A 'sensitive organism' that consumes animal flesh? And all this talk of 'love'. Where is the 'love' for the suffering and tortured sentient beings, farmed to fulfill your desires?

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Mon, 07 Sep 2009

Greg Van Tongeren wrote: Isn't vegetarianism like every other "ism," a divisive philosophy as to what should be? Another belief-system as to what is moral and what is not?

Can a fact - an action - be an 'ism'?

Topic: Young boy kills to please his fiancee`` Sun, 06 Sep 2009

Just to link back to the other thread about vegetarianism - would you suppose the boy and his girl-friend are meat-eaters?

Does meat-eating feed fantasy, desire, and images - along with aggression?

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Sun, 06 Sep 2009

Quite clearly there is a strong link between meat consumption and aggression. In all creatures of the earth, including humans.

And the increasing decline in health - both physical and mental health - is directly linked to the increased amounts of animal flesh consumed, as you say Krishnan. The body has become so insensitive it does not even feel the damage being done to it until it succumbs to cancer, diabetes, obesity or heart disease.

Obviously, for the human body to be deeply sensitive and healthy, a diet of fresh organic vegetables, grains and legumes, fruits and clean water - (a diet free of meat, animal products, alcohol, drugs, artificial foods and stimulants) - is absolutely essential.

Pure sea-salt is all right in small quantities. Salt is only a problem when eaten along with a meat diet, as it combines to clog up the body even further - as does cane sugar. But there are natural sugars in fruit.

The secret is to eat only pure, incorporated (as in 'whole'), organically grown fresh-from-the-garden fruit and vegetables, along with grains and legumes. And to drink fresh water and pure (not bottled) fruit juices.

If you look back to tribal societies, meat was generally eaten when the men of the tribe were about to go off to fight. Now we give it to children and send them off to school and wonder at the playground aggression being displayed.

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Sun, 06 Sep 2009

Hi Krishnan - Thank you for raising this subject.

Quite apart from the matters already raised in this thread about worldwide disease and pollution resulting from mankind's unnecessary desire to eat animal flesh and products, there is also the sensitivity factor.

K spoke constantly of the deep sensitivity required for the human brain to understand its own disorder and to bring about change.

He also said that, while vegetarianism and veganism will not on its own change the human brain, there CAN BE NO CHANGE while one is consuming animal flesh.

Why talk about 'love' when at the same time one is blindly and irresponsibly contributing to the suffering of fellow sentient beings on our planet because of the desire to eat animal flesh? Where is the 'love' in that?

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