Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Forum: Awareness in our world today

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Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Sat, 12 Sep 2009

Bob,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, one man does everything right and he dies early and another man lives a wastrel's life and he dies late. But if we want to bet on one or the other. . .

What puzzles me is that men in organized crime seem to have such long lives--that is, if they don't get whacked while on the job. I've noticed this fact, reading about these men in the papers from time to time. It just doesn't seem right.

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Fri, 11 Sep 2009

Bob,

My God, and she lived in Smog City to boot! She must have had lungs like a blacksmith's bellows. What a wonderful tribute to her physique and her eating habits.

So?

Topic: Is vegetarianism a must for saving the world and ourselves? Wed, 09 Sep 2009

Krishnan,

There are many reasons why meat eating is undesirable. Here are a few:

  1. It's an uneconomical use of productive land.

  2. It's a cruelty to living things.

  3. It's dirty and messy in the raising and slaughtering.

  4. It's use tends to coarsen one.

  5. It's not necessary in view of today's nutritional knowledge.

Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his.. Fri, 24 Jul 2009

Let's call it a day on this, Bob. Thanks for your responses.

Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his.. Thu, 23 Jul 2009

I wonder if it's a matter of courage. If you see something absolutely, you don't need courage, you just do what it takes. Courage isn't the opposite of cowardice--they are a continuum in which each contains the other.

I'd say that awareness is the great liberator. It's also the great separator. To be aware of something, you have to be separate from it.

Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his.. Wed, 22 Jul 2009
Robert Michael wrote:

K said some powerful things over the many years Max. Though I think he sometimes got carried away or a bit too heavy with some of his observations, along with often being quite reckless with his verbage.

How do you feel about his remark that only a 'few' soar into the skies?

Bob M.

"Those who have wealth, position, and authority are not happy people." (J. K. - 'TOTT')

I'd say it this way: Only a few will come to understanding.

That is not the same as saying that the many cannot--it's just that they won't. But there are probably people who are so heavily conditioned or so commited to some way of life that the "soaring" K is talking about is extremely unlikely for them.

Your second quote, "Those who have wealth . . . " probably refers to the problem of commitment. The rich, whether it be rich in terms of money, belief, physical ability, political status, or whatever, are tied to that to which they have commited their lives. They are unhappy because they are constantly worried about adding to their wealth, or protecting it, or having it lost or diminished, or losing status with their peers. And then, also, they've spent their entire lives gaining "wealth" in some field or other. This just might be enough to make them unhappy, if they stop to think about it.

Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his.. Tue, 21 Jul 2009

Thanks. I'll have to say, those didn't sound at all like K quotes to me. Guess I haven't read enough. The wording sounded a little strong--condemning the rich like that, for instance. The center of ALL mischief and misery? Maybe some, maybe a lot. But ALL?

Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his.. Mon, 20 Jul 2009
Robert Michael wrote:

J. Krishnamurti said: "A man rich with worldly riches, or a man rich in knowledge and belief, will never know anything but darkness, and will be the center of all mischief and misery." [J. Krishnamurti]

Dear K,

I find it's the rare man or woman who is rich with deeply penetrating Knowledge of Themselves that soar high into the skies as you once somewhat alluded to.

"We have our roots in the earth, which we have and must have, but we cling or crawl on the earth; only a 'Few' soar into the skies. They Are The Only Creative And Happy People. The rest spoil and destroy each other on this lovely earth, by hurt and likewise gossip." (J. Krishnamurti)

Bob M.

Hi, Bob,

Could you tell me which of his writings contain the quotes. I don't have much of a library, so probably I don't have it.

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Tue, 30 Jun 2009
Toni Lorenzo wrote:

max greene wrote: What is it to be aware?

To be aware means to be choiceless in all of your senses.

I would say that's right. You sense something--no screen, no interfeence, no blocking thought, no preference--and that sensing is awareness.

It seems to me that this awareness is also observation, and intelligence. If something is observed fully, that observation is the understanding of it.

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Thu, 25 Jun 2009

A living physical organism with a brain/mind. That's all I see. I've heard a lot of things about a lot more, but a living thing with a wonderful brain, a brain able to inquire and to question, should be enough to keep us busy.

That's our problem: we always want more. And, we are afraid to die, so we want immortality in some way. We want something beyond the physical.

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Tue, 23 Jun 2009

The entity able to see the Ego for what it is (or to see anything, for that matter) is the living physical organism with its wonderful brain. That's all a human is--a living physical organism. A man wants to believe that there is more, so he goes to an authoriy and accepts what he has to say on the subject. Or, if he has a little more energy, he speculates on his own. The man isn't satisfied that he is a living being. That's not good enough. He wants more.

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Mon, 22 Jun 2009

Krishnan,

It is interesting to examine why rituals, discipline, knowledge, beliefs, systems, methods, and all such approaches do not work. We say, "Some of the wisest men in the world have done all this, gurus and learned men, and now they are passing what they knew (or know) down to us. What's wrong with this? We should use it!"

Approaches fail because they use thought (memory)--which is of the past. If we, who are living, creative beings, carry the past into the Now, the Now will not be new but will be a deteriorating continuation of yesterday.

We must see the Ego for what it is. But who is it that sees the Ego?

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Mon, 22 Jun 2009

Strong words, Krishnan! Silence (the absence of the noise of thinking) is absolutely necessary before one can do anything truly creative or new.

Thinking is the use of memory, and memory is of the past. When we act out of memory, we drag forth yesterday and continue on with yesterday as the root, the base. That has been the destruction of the Middle East. To be new and creative, the past must not--cannot--be carried forward. Action based on thinking can be the work of the very devil.

Can silence be brought about through effort, discipline, knowledge, ritual?

Topic: Is it impossible to live with nonattachment in LIFE? Sat, 20 Jun 2009

When we talk of "freedom,' we are talking of freedom from the Self, or freedom from the "I," are we not? So what entity is it that wants to be free from the Self? What entity is it that sees and longs for freedom and says, "I want to be free"?

I'm saying it is the physical organism with its brain/mind. The physical organism is a living thing, and because it is a living thing, the organism is actually capable of acting and creating beyond time. Through the process of thinking the organism has created a thought construct that we call the Self. Of course, a construct can't do anything on its own--by its nature it is passive and lifeless. But the organism has given vast significance to the Self that it has created--such significance that the organism comes to think of the Self as itself. The organism becomes very protective of this Self that it has created. When threatened, the organism resorts to violence. We know the rest of the story.

What are we to do with this Self we have created? The Self is there, and if we look closely, it seems to be all that there is. It just might be! The Self might be all that we call "consciousness," because consciousness is of the known, and the known is already in time, old, and is neither creative or new. As I said, the physical organism is a living thing, capable of acting and creating outside of time. Freedom from the Self cannot be accomplished through effort. Freedom is accomplished through effortless seeing and understanding.

I may be all wet, but this is how the situation looks to me. What would you say in this regard?

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Sat, 20 Jun 2009

Krishnan,

All we know that exists is this body. It is my view that the body, through thought, has created the Self, or in more modern terminology, the psychological "I." But the the Self and the "I" are exactly the same.

When I say this is my view, that means this is the way I see it. My view may be distorted, and to that extent it will be in error. But it is important to say that it is "my view" so that it will be different from "my opinion." Opinion is thought and belief; viewing, even when distorted, is seeing--an entirely different act from opinion.

Looking forward to more on this.

Topic: Is it impossible to live with nonattachment in LIFE? Fri, 19 Jun 2009

Krishnan,

Strange, but in creating the "I" for security, exactly the opposite has happened: It is the psychological "I" itself that has brought about uncertainty and chaos in the world--at tremendous cost to the physical organism it was created to "protect"!

Seems to me that if we really saw (became aware of) the terrible damage that the "I" has done to humanity, and became aware of just how useless this illusion is, it would dissipate or disappear like the phantom it is.

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Fri, 19 Jun 2009

Krishnan,

A couple of things. Is effort needed to be free? If we are involved in becoming, in trying to reach a goal (we aren't talking about a physical goal)--in other words, if we are making an effort to attain--we will never be free. Why is that? Simply because when we are "trying," we aren't actually "doing"! We're too busy.

Awareness has to be now--awareness in the past or the future is impossible. "Trying" to be aware is not awareness. So how are we, as physical organisms, aware? We are aware through our senses. It might be said that awareness IS sensing. If we don't sense something, we certainly aren't aware of it.

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

.So thought can watch itself, then it becomes aware of itself.

This is a very important point. Can thought "watch itself"? Can thought do anything, take any action at all? Thought is a construction of the brain. It is a passive construct. Thought is memory. One cannot possibly think of something of which he has not the slightest background or experience.

If one is watchful, that is the same as saying that he is seeing, looking. If one is looking at a subject through the screen of his memories, what he sees about the subject will be distorted by those memories. To the extent of this distortion, he will be unaware of what he is observing.

Topic: Is it impossible to live with nonattachment in LIFE? Thu, 18 Jun 2009

I think we know who constructs the psychological "I," the Self. It is the living physical organism, with its brain/mind acting in the now. But why does the physical organism construct this phantom "I"? What purpose does this construct serve? Perhaps K and the Buddha and a few others have gotten to the bottom of this, but not the rest of us.

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Thu, 18 Jun 2009

You say, "that means understanding without any fragmentation introduced by ever-interfering thought." This is certainly a first consideration. Thought has absolutely nothing to do with awareness. Awareness cannot be approached by thought.

I'm a little suspicious of "consciousness." Isn't consciousness thought?

Topic: What does it mean to be "Aware"? Thu, 18 Jun 2009

What is it to be aware? Obviously, one can be aware only in the present, which can be refined down to now--not ten minutes ago or even one minute ago, but now. But what is this "now," the only condition in which we can be aware. And what is it that is aware.

Topic: Is it impossible to live with nonattachment in LIFE? Tue, 16 Jun 2009
Keshni Sahni wrote:

When you are alone, totally alone, not belonging to any family, any nation, any culture, any particular continent, there is that sense of being an outsider.

Who is the entity that would have the "sense" of being an outsider? It would be the living physical organism, with its brain/mind. This is all we are, unless we want to start speculating. And yet, the physical organism, which is us, has no known sense to detect emotions and value judgments. The organism sees, hears, smells, tastes and feels--and with its brain it thinks, creates thoughts.

The organism has created a psychological "I," which the organism then thinks of as itself. It is out of consideration for this image in the mind, this construct, that the thought of being an outsider arises.

Topic: Is it impossible to live with nonattachment in LIFE? Sun, 14 Jun 2009

What is meant by "non-attachment"?

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