Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Effort is the denial of understanding


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Sat, 09 May 2020 #1
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3477 posts in this forum Online

Interesting QOTD today, I think most of you will agree. I thought it worthy of a new thread, so here it is:

Bombay, India | 5th public talk, 12 March 1950

"What is important is to find out if you can discover reality through effort, will, struggle, striving. Does that bring understanding? Surely, truth is not something distant, truth is in the little things of everyday life, in every word, in every smile, in every relationship, only we do not know how to see it; and the man who tries, who struggles valiantly, who disciplines himself, controls himself, - will he see truth? The mind that is disciplined, controlled, narrowed down through effort - shall it see truth? Obviously not. It is only the silent mind that shall see the truth, not the mind that makes an effort to see. Sir, if you are making an effort to hear what I am saying, will you hear? It is only when you are quiet, when you are really silent, that you understand. If you observe closely, listen quietly, then you will hear; but if you strain, struggle to catch everything that is being said, your energy will be dissipated in the strain, in the effort. So, you will not find truth through effort, it does not matter who says it, whether the ancient books, the ancient saints, or the modern ones. Effort is the very denial of understanding; and it is only the quiet mind, the simple mind, the mind that is still, that is not overtaxed by its own efforts - only such a mind shall understand, shall see truth."

Let it Be

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Sun, 10 May 2020 #2
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 182 posts in this forum Offline

Most of us make an effort to do something every day. That is, we wish to do something, but we also have resistance to doing it. We either overcome the resistance or we do not. But in either case effort is involved, which is division of the self into the wisher and the resistance. We also choose to do things every day. Choice is the division of the self into alternatives. And we narrow attention down to focus on one thing or another. Narrowing is division of the self into what is included versus what is excluded. We do all these things every day.

So it is most ironic to me that some people are fine doing all these things every single day, but appalled if there is even the slightest movement toward meditation, toward silence, toward really investigating some of the central things K talks about.

True, in a very real way meditation, silence cannot be approached or moved toward. Only an idea about them can be pursued. But you can look into the matter for yourself. And you may have to get messy. You are already living in a messy way every day, with effort, choice, and narrowing. So you have to find out for yourself what is and is not effort, what choice is and what it means, whether the senses can be wide open to everything or whether narrowing is needed for certain things. To do otherwise is to make an ideal of things K is talking about even though you are not living it.

To make "no method" into an ideal just because K said it, is just as problematic as making other things into ideals. How, exactly, is "no method" true? The only worthwhile answer is the one that comes from your own direct investigations.

And meditation and silence are also meaningless, except what you directly discover for yourself.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 10 May 2020.

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Mon, 11 May 2020 #3
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3477 posts in this forum Online

idiot ? wrote:
True, in a very real way meditation, silence cannot be approached or moved toward. Only an idea about them can be pursued. But you can look into the matter for yourself

Look into 'silence'? Who? The one who is not silent? Anyhow the QOTD today touches on what I feel is most important. We can agree or disagree but that's immaterial:

Group Discussion 11th December, 1947 | Madras, India

"To understand the disturbing state in which you find yourself, you must first stop the fighting with the opposite which is non-existent, i.e. you must give up the struggle to become the opposite. Do not condemn that state nor identify yourself with it. Then, watch it with your whole being and be aware of it.

Whenever we have a feeling, we generally name it so that we may recognise it and also communicate it, if necessary, to others. Investigation into and understanding of the feeling itself, which is changing and in movement, demands freedom from terminology, as the term is not the thing that it is supposed to denote.

If a feeling is investigated through a term, the term becomes important and not the feeling."

Tom: Ah...in bold above he says that the opposite is non-existent. So the opposite of the noise of conflict (silence) K is saying is non-existent. I've been trying to make that point. Not just repeating K but have looked deeply into this myself. But it's possible I'm missing something. That's always a possibility.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Mon, 11 May 2020.

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