Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Right thinking


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Tue, 17 Mar 2020 #1
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3318 posts in this forum Offline

We've discussed this previously but I think it might be worth returning to the topic, so here's QOTD to begin.

Public Talk 22nd February, 1948 | Mumbai, India

Our problem, then, is how to think rightly. Now, right thinking and right thought are two different states, are they not? Right thinking has to be discovered, whereas right thought is merely conformity to a pattern. Right thinking is a process, whereas right thought is static. Right thinking is constant movement, constant discovery; that is, only through constant awareness in action, which is relationship, can there be right thinking. But right thought is always static; you can pick up right thought. You can regiment your mind, force your mind, discipline it to think along right lines, but that is not right thinking. Right thinking can come into being only through self-knowledge, and self-knowledge is never static. I am using the word self - knowledge in its full meaning - knowledge of the self, not only the higher but the lower self. To me, the self, the desire, is both the high and the low. We have divided the self for convenience, as a means of escape; but actually, to understand the self, one must understand the whole process of thinking, which is consciousness.

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Wed, 18 Mar 2020 #2
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 901 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
Right thinking can come into being only through self-knowledge, and self-knowledge is never static. I am using the word self - knowledge in its full meaning - knowledge of the self, not only the higher but the lower self. To me, the self, the desire, is both the high and the low. We have divided the self for convenience, as a means of escape; but actually, to understand the self, one must understand the whole process of thinking, which is consciousness.

Tom, maybe this description from David Bohm is helpful.
From "the essential david bohm".

"Rather, a total order is contained, in some implicit sense, in each region of space and time. Now, the word "implicit" is based on the verb "to implicate." This means "to fold inward" (as multiplication means "folding many times"). So we may be led to explore the notion that in some sense each region contains a total structure "enfolded" within it."

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Wed, 18 Mar 2020 #3
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 251 posts in this forum Offline

alt text

Look, see, let go

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Wed, 18 Mar 2020 #4
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 106 posts in this forum Offline

The K quote that begins this thread is fairly early. Later, it seems K abandoned advocating "right thinking" and basically abandoned advocating "thinking" altogether, but the characteristics he attributes to right thinking in this early quote remained important: discovery, process, constant movement, constant awareness, not conformity, not static.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Wed, 18 Mar 2020.

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Wed, 18 Mar 2020 #5
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3318 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
The K quote that begins this thread is fairly early.

Right, but he had been doing the talks since the mid 30's no? I think he talked in NY and in Latin America...maybe in India and California... in the 30's and then stopped for a while during WWII.

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Wed, 18 Mar 2020 #6
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3318 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Later, it seems K abandoned advocating "right thinking" and basically abandoned advocating "thinking" altogether, but the characteristics he attributes to right thinking in this early quote remained important:

Didn't he talk of negative thinking in the years after that excerpt?

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Wed, 18 Mar 2020 #7
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5772 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Later, it seems K abandoned advocating "right thinking" and basically abandoned advocating "thinking" altogether, but the characteristics he attributes to right thinking in this early quote remained important: discovery, process, constant movement, constant awareness, not conformity, not static.

Something about the concept of "right thinking" puzzles me. Does it not suggest that there is something, some entity, somehow in charge of thinking? Something that can choose right thinking over 'wrong thinking', as it were?

But I cannot see any trace of any such entity. It seems to me that thought rises spontaneously in the mind. I certainly do not feel that 'I', whatever 'I' means, has any input into this arising. I am not there thinking what to think, or how to think. It just happens.

How do others see this?

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Thu, 19 Mar 2020 #8
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 251 posts in this forum Offline

Free Thinking : Thinking that leaves no trace.

Habitual Thinking : Thinking that confirms and strenghtens conditioning.

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Thu, 19 Mar 2020 #9
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3318 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
Something about the concept of "right thinking" puzzles me. Does it not suggest that there is something, some entity, somehow in charge of thinking? Something that can choose right thinking over 'wrong thinking', as it were?

But I cannot see any trace of any such entity. It seems to me that thought rises spontaneously in the mind. I certainly do not feel that 'I', whatever 'I' means, has any input into this arising. I am not there thinking what to think, or how to think. It just happens.

How do others see this?

Thanks for bringing up this point Clive. I was looking into it last night and had some kind of insight into this but it escapes me this AM. Will look into it again later. Thinking just happens yet it may be that there can be observation of the thought process and insight into its danger in the psychological realm and in all relationships including how the ā€˜Iā€™ breaks itself up into false fragments and one fragment tries to relate to a fragment of itself.

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Fri, 20 Mar 2020 #10
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 5772 posts in this forum Offline

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
Free Thinking : Thinking that leaves no trace.

Are you suggesting, Douglas, that this "free thinking" is another term for "right thinking"?

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Fri, 20 Mar 2020 #11
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 251 posts in this forum Offline

Yes - I thought it might help circumvent ideas of right and wrong, good and bad.
Although the paradox that you mention of the entity that chooses and judges itself, can also be useful.

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Fri, 20 Mar 2020 #12
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3318 posts in this forum Offline

Douglas MacRae-Smith wrote:
Although the paradox that you mention of the entity that chooses and judges itself, can also be useful.

Can you say how this inner division is a paradox, Douglas?

Let it Be

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Fri, 20 Mar 2020 #13
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 251 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
ā€˜Iā€™ breaks itself up into false fragments and one fragment tries to relate to a fragment of itself.

Look, see, let go

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Fri, 20 Mar 2020 #14
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3318 posts in this forum Offline

Oh, I guess I need to google the definition of paradox

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