Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

What is the ‘self’?


Displaying all 7 posts
Page 1 of 1
Wed, 05 Dec 2018 #1
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2325 posts in this forum Offline

We’ve been discussing this on another thread, so I thought I’d give this important question a thread of its own. Dev has helped us out today with a very pertinent QOTD, so I’ll start the thread with that. Here’s K. Feel free to share any thoughts, questions, comments...

Ojai, California | 7th Talk in the Oak Grove 17th May, 1936

“Life is every moment in a state of being born, arising, coming into being. In this arising, coming into being, in this itself there is no continuity, nothing that can be identified as permanent. Life is in constant movement, action; each moment of this action has never been before, and will never be again. But each new moment forms a continuity of movement.

Now, consciousness forms its own continuity as an individuality, through the action of ignorance, and clings, with desperate craving, to this identification. What is that something to which each one clings, hoping that it may be immortal, or that it may conceal the permanent, or that beyond it may lie the eternal?

This something that each one clings to is the consciousness of individuality. This consciousness is composed of many layers of memories, which come into being, or remain present, where there is ignorance, craving, want. Craving, want, tendency in any form, must create conflict between itself and that which provokes it, that is, the object of want; this conflict between craving and the object craved appears in consciousness as individuality. So it is this friction, really, that seeks to perpetuate itself. What we intensely desire to have continue is nothing but this friction, this tension between the various forms of craving and their provoking agents. This friction, this tension, is that consciousness which sustains individuality.“

Let it Be

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 06 Dec 2018 #2
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4639 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
“Life is every moment in a state of being born, arising, coming into being.

I have a slight sense of this, sometimes. I don't see that it can be discussed intellectually, either one senses it or one doesn't.

In this arising, coming into being, in this itself there is no continuity, nothing that can be identified as permanent. Life is in constant movement, action; each moment of this action has never been before, and will never be again. But each new moment forms a continuity of movement.

No, I don't grasp the last sentence. How is "a continuity of movement" formed from the continually birth of life? That continual birth must be accompanied by its death also, does it not? Yet obviously there IS continuity. Looking out the window the trees "are still there".

i will not attempt to go further into this quote at the moment.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 06 Dec 2018 #3
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 2325 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
"But each new moment forms a continuity of movement."

No, I don't grasp the last sentence.

I don't either Clive, but the paragraph that follows might be a continuation of that thought by K: "Now, consciousness forms its own continuity as an individuality, through the action of ignorance, and clings, with desperate craving, to this identification. " So the continuity is caused by the 'self'. Perhaps that's what K means....not sure.

Let it Be

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 06 Dec 2018 #4
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4639 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
" So the continuity is caused by the 'self'. Perhaps that's what K means....not sure.

Thinking it over yesterday, this is what I came to also. In fact it seems very likely that the self was 'created' by thought in order to provide continuity. Or the semblance of continuity. It is interesting, isn't it, that a thing that has no actual existence can provide continuity?

Certainly thought has no continuity of its own. Thoughts just come and go, come and go.

I am asking the question exactly how does thought's projection of an imaginary entity (the self) bring about a sense of continuity. And to what extent, if any, is this continuity 'real' (a difficult word in itself). It seems to answer these questions, we have to understand psychological time.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Thu, 06 Dec 2018 #5
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4639 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
“Life is every moment in a state of being born, arising, coming into being. In this arising, coming into being, in this itself there is no continuity, nothing that can be identified as permanent. Life is in constant movement, action; each moment of this action has never been before, and will never be again. But each new moment forms a continuity of movement.

How? If "each moment of this action has never been before", where is the 'memory', if that word can be used, that can create a continuity?

I am not really expecting any answers to this question, perhaps it is part of the mystery of the universe, which knowledge, or even human perception, can never capture.

This post was last updated by Clive Elwell Thu, 06 Dec 2018.

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Fri, 07 Dec 2018 #6
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 999 posts in this forum Offline

Clive Elwell wrote:
I am asking the question exactly how does thought's projection of an imaginary entity (the self) bring about a sense of continuity.

Hi Clive

If you look at yourself the answer is there, no?

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Fri, 07 Dec 2018 #7
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4639 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
If you look at yourself the answer is there, no?

If the answer is not there, then I don't know where it would be!

Sign in to recommend
Back to Top
Displaying all 7 posts
Page 1 of 1
To quote a portion of this post in your reply, first select the text and then click this "Quote" link.

(N.B. Be sure to insert an empty line between the quoted text and your reply.)