Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Anger (or What does it mean investigate?) ...


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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #1
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

I have decided to start a new thread making a verbatim copy of the last three post in Mina's thread "A question to Olive to be shared with all..." as they not belong there never more and because i find that the discussion is worth to have its own thread.

(allow me some time to copy the posts)

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

This post was last updated by Juan E Sun, 25 Jun 2017.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #2
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Everything started with this post of mine ...

Tom Paine wrote:

If I get angry at my spouse, my anger isn't imaginary, is it?

Anger isn't, but what caused that anger often it is.

Tom Paine wrote:
The fact of anger is real.

Yes, anger is real ... What follows next?

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #3
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Then Dan answered

Juan E wrote:
Yes, anger is real ... What follows next?

Thinking about this morning...my first question is do I really want to end 'anger' in myself? I think some people don't, they seem angry all the time. So lets say I see how destructive it can be and like conflict, jealousy, etc. I want an end to it in myself. I think that would be first. Then I realize that 'anger' is an effect, so in order to understand how and why it arises, I have to discover the cause or causes. For me, anger arises when something happens that I 'feel' is wrong. When I feel wronged, misunderstood, under appreciated , humiliated, etc. But whatever the 'cause' turns out to be, it seems to affect something negatively that I am attached to: my 'self' esteem, my sense of 'right and wrong', my sense of 'fairness', my 'image' of myself, etc...So from that, my question becomes: "why am I attached to anything"? Is it necessary to be attached psychologically, identified, with anything? It's logical that if I am attached to something and that 'something' is questioned, threatened, flouted, etc that this can bring about this response called which results in 'anger'. This is 'analysis' but self-knowledge is the actual observing in myself of the causes that lead inevitably to conflict and anger. Just always trying to observe 'anger' in myself is too late...the train is already coming down the track. I have to discover the things in myself (attachment, identification, beliefs...) that ultimately bring about this destructive response. But this 'learning' can't be done with a 'motive',(self-improvement) it has to be done, I think, in 'meditation' and without any goal to 'become'.

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

This post was last updated by Juan E Sat, 24 Jun 2017.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #4
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

And Tom commented this on Dan's answer

Dan McDermott wrote:
or me, anger arises when something happens that I 'feel' is wrong. When I feel wronged, misunderstood, under appreciated , humiliated, etc. But whatever the 'cause' turns out to be, it seems to affect something negatively that I am attached to: my 'self' esteem, my sense of 'right and wrong', my sense of 'fairness', my 'image' of myself, etc...So from that, my question becomes: "why am I attached to anything"

Self image is a big part of it, I suppose, and attachment to any pattern of living or thinking that brings satisfaction or psychological security. Attachment to my self image as being a big success....a great artist or musician....attachment to my golf game...attachment to my religion is a big one, as we have constant war in the Middle East over that..and a piece of 'holy' land. Attachment to a political or economic belief. You answered Juan's question, "I am angry, yes. What's next?" by saying you investigate the cause or causes of the anger. This might take a lot of time....years. Can we get rid of the causes of anger or violence through this kind of investigating? Just questioning...

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

This post was last updated by Juan E Sat, 24 Jun 2017.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #5
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
you investigate the cause or causes of the anger. This might take a lot of time....years.

Why this has to be so? ...
It's because the use of the word 'investigation'?

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #6
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

First you say:

Juan E wrote:
my first question is do I really want to end 'anger' in myself?

And just at the end of your post:

Juan E wrote:
But this 'learning' can't be done with a 'motive'

Can we go into what this 'motive' really means? ... because anyone observing these words would say that 'wanting to end anger in oneself' implies a motive ... Could we investigate in which way that initial 'motive' can (or can not) be 'transformed' (i'm using just the word not implying the act of the will) in "'meditation' and without any goal to 'become'"?

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #7
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
Juan E wrote:

you investigate the cause or causes of the anger. This might take a lot of time....years.
Why this has to be so? ...
It's because the use of the word 'investigation'?

Do you think it can be done instantly....or in a day? K investigated in his talks, the causes of conflict....and anger is a kind of conflict....for many years, yet how many of us are free of conflict from listening to all those talks and doing years of investigating? He used to say himself, 'you've been coming to these talks for years, why aren't you free of violence?' (paraphrasing) Even those of us who do this investigation for years are still struggling with conflicts of one sort or another....or am I mistaken?

Let it Be

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #8
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 677 posts in this forum Online

Tom: you investigate the cause or causes of the anger. This might take a lot of time....years.

Juan: Why this has to be so? ...
It's because the use of the word 'investigation'?

Yes I think that's it. 'Investigation' seems to imply time, collecting 'evidence', coming to conclusions.etc. That is 'analysis' and that is not the same as 'learning', seeing oneself, for that no time is necessary. Much more 'difficult' in a way because it is not what we are used to. We are used to getting a reward for our 'investigation', a conclusion... In 'self-knowledge' that doesn't (or shouldn't) apply, there is no 'getting to' something, no end?

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #9
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 677 posts in this forum Online

Juan E wrote:
Could we investigate in which way that initial 'motive' can (or can not) be 'transformed' (i'm using just the word not implying the act of the will) in "'meditation' and without any goal to 'become'"?

I think it's a mistake and I've mentioned this to Tom, to insist on some kind of 'pure' motive before one takes on the task of 'learning' about oneself. The deeper you go into this the more the motives behind your actions become seen, make themselves visible. It's a very elaborate structure that keeps our ego 'buttressed' and in place. It is (can be) very 'destabilizing' to probe it...so, fine if one wants to experiment with it in the 'street', I think a 'safer' situation to try out how 'deep' one is willing to go is best done in private.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #10
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
K investigated in his talks, the causes of conflict....and anger is a kind of conflict....for many years,

Let me say that i have a slightly different point of view about that ;-)

Jokes aside, to me K did not investigated the causes of conflict (anger included) for many years ... He simply dedicated his whole life to rose the interest in us to investigate many things we usually give for granted ... He was simply there opening doors of unknown rooms to us for us to enter and see by ourselves the actual rooms, not the ones imagined by us ...

Tom Paine wrote:
yet how many of us are free of conflict from listening to all those talks and doing years of investigating?

May i ask something that i don't know if it will be understood? ... Why once seen do we continue investigating as if we had not seen it completely? ... Is it because we try to negate what we've seen because we don't like it? ... Is it because we thing that there's still something more to be investigated? ... Why we don't allow that initial seeing to see further by itself?

What does it mean investigate?

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #11
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
'Investigation' seems to imply time, collecting 'evidence', coming to conclusions.etc.

It is a pity, because i must leave for my sister's home right now and the dialog is becoming quit interesting ... Anyway i will try to continue with this dialog when i get there through the mobile phone ... Hope you'll still be there! ;-)

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #12
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
Why once seen do we continue investigating as if we had not seen it completely? ... Is it because we try to negate what we've seen because we don't like it? ... Is it because we thing that there's still something more to be investigated? .

We think there's still more to investigate because anger continues to arise....and the feeling of conflict....in spite of much investigation and insight into the causes.

Juan E wrote:
Why we don't allow that initial seeing to see further by itself?

This action of allowing is not clear. 'Anger arises...then what?' you asked. Why is it still arising if we've investigated for years? Obviously there is something missing in our investigation. So we can move on to your last question. What does it mean to investigate?

Let it Be

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #13
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 677 posts in this forum Online

Juan E wrote:
Why once seen do we continue investigating as if we had not seen it completely? ... Is it because we try to negate what we've seen because we don't like it?

Two things: we may not have seen it completely and yes I think that deeply we cannot face what we really are. The violence, the fear, the pettiness, the 'bluster', hypocrisy ,etc. although we admit to them intellectually, it would be 'shattering' to see them clearly as being what we are. But that I think is the role of 'true' meditation, to allow whatever is there to surface without any judgement, comparison.

And I would add, at this point it has nothing to do with K. or any one else. The 'responsibility' to do this is all one's own. To discover the 'right approach'. What I find in myself is that certain situations in the past that would 'trigger' say 'anger', jealousy, fear, no longer do so. I can't say all situations...how could one know? but definitely as a result of having seen the attachments behind the arising of certain emotions the 'explosive' energy that was there, now isn't. You could say that before, there was this explosion waiting to happen, that has now been replaced (defused?) by 'intelligence'?

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Sat, 24 Jun 2017.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #14
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
we may not have seen it completely

Yes, this is clear ... but just because at certain point there's something that interrupts that seeing, making it incomplete ... not because seeing is incomplete in itself.

Dan McDermott wrote:
and yes I think that deeply we cannot face what we really are.

Is this what interrupts the seeing? ... Is this the answer to the question that Tom has put in #12, "Why is anger still arising if we've investigated for years?"

Let's say that one goes to listen K because wanting to end anger in oneself after having seen all the conflict it brings about in oneself and others ... And being there listening to what K is saying one begins to see, but at certain point (for whatever reason) one is not able to continue facing what one sees about oneself ... Is it then when one starts investigating what anger is?

So let me ask, is that investigation in fact an escape from what we see of ourselves and therefore the reason why anger (and so on) is still arising no matter the years we've spend trying to investigate anger and all the rest?

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #15
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 677 posts in this forum Online

Juan E wrote:
So let me ask, is that investigation in fact an escape from what we see of ourselves and therefore the reason why anger (and so on) is still arising no matter the years we've spend trying to investigate anger and all the rest?

In a way the K. 'thing' is an 'escape' isn't it? We came looking for answers, enlightenment, whatever and he more than others we 'tried' seemed to be the 'real' thing. And I think I thought his message would come through like a process of 'osmosis', going to his talks, reading, watching his videos...what I didn't understand, was the 'work' that had (and has) to be done. Maybe I still don't but that is beside the point. His comment regarding the people around him, that they hadn't the foggiest idea what he was talking about is a good caution to not become too sure of yourself in this realm. Important to realize also in all of this that it isn't being 'done' for one's own 'salvation' which he has said is 'silly' and I agree.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Sat, 24 Jun 2017.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #16
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
We think there's still more to investigate because anger continues to arise....and the feeling of conflict....in spite of much investigation and insight into the causes.

I've been talking with my sister about this this afternoon, and at one point she said (through her own reasoning and observation of what we were talking about, as she knows nothing about K or any other so-called 'enlightened being'): "in that investigation anger continues there. That investigation only serves to convince oneself that one is doing something about it, but it's not true".

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #17
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
in that investigation anger continues there. That investigation only serves to convince oneself that one is doing something about it, but it's not true".

I think that may be a fair observation. You asked Juan, "What does it mean investigate?" Perhaps now we should ask your sister that same question. Anyone else want to comment? What does it mean investigate?

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 25 Jun 2017.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #18
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 677 posts in this forum Online

Juan E wrote:
the reason why anger (and so on) is still arising no matter the years we've spend trying to investigate anger and all the rest?

Not meaning to be facetious but if I continuously hit myself in the head with a hammer, eventually I may want to 'investigate' the reason for my headaches. The headaches will go on 'for years' unless I realize that the reason behind my headache is the 'hammer' and what is needed, is for me to stop hitting myself in the head with it. True? So remove the 'cause' of the headaches, which is the hammer, and the headaches will go away....In the case of 'anger, jealousy, remove the cause of their arising and they 'go away'. It's 'lawful' as in 'when it rains the streets get wet'.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Sat, 24 Jun 2017.

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Sat, 24 Jun 2017 #19
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
In the case of 'anger, jealousy, remove the cause of their arising and they 'go away'

And the cause is in 'me', right? No how do I remove a part of me? One part trying to remove another part hasn't worked st all. "I shouldn't be angry", etc.

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #20
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 677 posts in this forum Online

Tom Paine wrote:
Dan McDermott wrote:

In the case of 'anger, jealousy, remove the cause of their arising and they 'go away'

Tom: And the cause is in 'me', right? Now how do I remove a part of me? One part trying to remove another part hasn't worked st all. "I shouldn't be angry", etc.

Hi Tom

Forget about "removal" if I may say. We're not doing 'surgery' here. Our 'attachment', our 'dependancy' is what we need to see clearly. And when it is seen and 'negated' the 'effects' of it will disappear. Is there any other way?

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #21
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
if I continuously hit myself in the head with a hammer, eventually I may want to 'investigate' the reason for my headaches.

But you know perfectly what is the problem, Dan ...

On one hand i continously hit myself in the head with a hammer, and on the other i have terrible headaches ... So, i go to listen K because i heard that he talks about the cause(s) of those headaches ... Therefore i'm there listening to him talking about my headaches and due to that listening i see that the cause of those headaches is my continuously hiting myself in the head with a hammer ...

So, "it's easier than i thought" i say to myself, "the only thing i must do is to throw away the hammer and headaches will go away too" ... And for some days my headaches are gone ... But after those "some days" my headaches come back ...

And it is at that point that i begin to investigate the thing: "Why they have come back?", "How is it that i took again the hammer", up to "Perhaps if the hammer was smaller my headaches will be less painful" or such absurd thoughts as "Will not be that i'm attached to the color of the hammer and that's why i took it again? Perhaps if it had another color i would feel aversion to it and my headaches would dissapear forever!"

But not being able to conclude my investigation and therefore not being able to stop my headaches (that are still there after weeks of investigation) i come back to listen K again, because i said to myself "Surely it is because i have not listen enough to what he was saying" ... And not only that, as after the talk i go buy all the tapes, video-tapes, and books from him "to help me in my investigation" (i say to myself).

So now my headaches are worse because now i don't have only the hammer, but also all those books, tapes and video tapes to watch, listening, and read ;-) ...

Anyway i continue my investigation because headaches are still there ...

And a year passes by, and then another, an another, and another, because i'm still not able to conclude my investigations, and therefore i'm not able to end my terrible headaches ...

And not only that, as in the meantime, between hitting my head with the hammer and my exploration of K's teachings in its multiple formats, i still have time to increase the pain of my headaches (as if they were not much painful already) looking for more tools for my investigation in other "Ks", or even talking with others about "How is it that we are not able to get rid of the hammer when we have seen that the only thing to do is throw away the hammer?"

And another year passes by, and another, and eventually the end approaches and with sadness in the heart i say to myself "What have i done all these years when the only thing i had to do was to throw the hammer far away the very first day i heard someone (and let me say here that this 'someone' not necesarily must be K) ... that someone told me that the only cause for my headaches was the hammer?!", "How is it that i lied myself making myself think that this needed a further investigation!?"

So, my question after all this bla, bla, bla (sorry for it) is:

What is it that failed the very first day i saw that the hammer was the only cause, that made me think that this was not enough and that it needed a further investigation that lasted my whole life full of headaches despite such investigation?.

BTW, good morning to you all!
This has been written in bed with my tablet and it took 01:45h
(from 8 o'clock to 9:45) ... I hope I did not bored you with all this

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

This post was last updated by Juan E Sun, 25 Jun 2017.

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #22
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Hi Tom

Forget about "removal" if I may say. We're not doing 'surgery' here.

Hi Dan,

But did't you ask about removal in your post?

Dan McDermott wrote:

In the case of 'anger, jealousy, remove the cause of their arising and they 'go away'

T: forgive me, but I'm getting lost here. The cause of the anger and jealousy, etc. is in 'me'. So as you said in your last message, this needs to be 'seen'/understood... the effort to remove is only producing further conflict. According to k, this 'seeing' is effortless. Yet most of us are still stuck with conflict of one sort of another. Why doesn't this 'effortless' seeing free us from the causes? If it's effortless, then I don't have to do a THING! right? Is it because we're always making an effort to DO SOMETHING about the conflict that we never 'see'/understand?

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 25 Jun 2017.

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #23
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
What is it that failed the very first day i saw that the hammer was the only cause, that made me think that this was not enough and that it needed a further investigation that lasted my whole life full of headaches despite such investigation?.

First of all, if the pain/conflict returns it means I have NOT seen the cause. If I see/understand that fire burns I won't keep sticking my hand in the fire, right? If I see that the hammer is the cause of my pain, I'll not hit myself with it again....ever. Now I'm saying that if the conflict...ANGER...fear, etc., returns, the simple fact is that I have NOT seen that the "the hammer was the only cause". If I had, it would not return. You may disagree if you like, but that's my understanding of the situation. I simply have not seen ALL the causes....totally down to the very root.... if the anger returns. I've only seen part/s of the situation. My understanding is partial....not whole....not complete.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Sun, 25 Jun 2017.

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #24
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
The cause of the anger and jealousy, etc. is in 'me'.

The cause of anger, etc. is not IN 'me', but it is 'me', which is totally different ...

Tom Paine wrote:
Why doesn't this 'effortless' seeing free us from the causes?

Quite simple ... because there's a constant reaction in 'me' before that seeing, either by rejecting or accepting what is seen about 'me' ... That reaction, having stopped the seeing itself, prevents seeing from going further and bring about its own 'effortless' action.

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #25
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
Tom Paine wrote:

Why doesn't this 'effortless' seeing free us from the causes?
Quite simple ... because there's a constant reaction in 'me' before that seeing, either by rejecting or accepting what is seen about 'me' .

I judge the anger as wrong or bad, for instance. Is that what you're saying? Therefore there is NO seeing(understanding)...just reacting.

Let it Be

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #26
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Tom Paine wrote:
I judge the anger as wrong or bad, for instance. Is that what you're saying? Therefore there is NO seeing(understanding)...just reacting.

Not exactly ... I'm saying that there's seeing, otherwise there will be no reaction ... in that reaction seeing is stopped ... and when seeing is stopped effort begins either in one direction or in the other.

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #27
Thumb_2474 Dan McDermott United States 677 posts in this forum Online

Tom Paine wrote:
In the case of 'anger, jealousy, remove the cause of their arising and they 'go away'

If I see the cause of something destructive in me that I had not seen or understood before, but see that it is 'mis-guided' or based on an unquestioned belief say, the seeing of it 'negates' it doesn't it. Seeing brings the 'intelligence' where before there was 'ignorance' and it fades away, it loses its energy, it is seen as false. So I would say and certainly could be wrong that our anger etc. persists because we have not discovered the underlying trigger for that destructive 'emotion' arising. The 'underlying' factor I see is generally speaking the 'I' process and specifically the 'I's attachments and beliefs. Take 'jealousy', we've all had a taste of that...my wife, girlfriend say finds someone to be more attractive than me (hard to believe but..),and I go into a rage or a funk etc., why? If I truly cared for her, my only concern would be her happiness and well-being whether it was with me or someone else. But I don't feel that way and here's where I see the 'trigger':, my 'dependance' on her, my 'possessiveness' towards her. If it can be seen clearly that those are the factors that create jealousy (and I don't want to be jealous because it can be a deadly emotion) then I don't have to try to 'control' my jealous fits but just 'remove' ('let go' through seeing) my 'dependance' and possessiveness' that inevitably bring it on. So this is 'effortless', this 'seeing' or 'letting go', but at the same time it calls for a tremendous energy (of non-action, non-movement?) which we may or may not have.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Sun, 25 Jun 2017.

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #28
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
I'm saying that there's seeing, otherwise there will be no reaction ... in that reaction seeing is stopped ... and when seeing is stopped effort begins either in one direction or in the other.

Well, there's 'seeing' in the sense that I perceive that I'm angry, but there's no 'seeing' in the sense K uses the word when he means 'understanding'....seeing the cause. I have simply NOT seen/understood all the causes of the anger if it continues to arise. This kind of understanding is much more difficult complex, than the simple seeing that the hammer is causing my head pain. Seeing the causes of anger is much different than seeing that fire burns or that the hammer is the cause of my headache.

Let it Be

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #29
Thumb_avatar Juan E Spain 314 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
in that reaction seeing is stopped

After a shower:

This reaction is very easy to observe in any of the K's seminars, in which there are few participants, some of them being even with certain verbal violence ...

One can see clearly oneself there in any of those reactions if it's able not to stop the seeing with another reaction.

Leaving for my sister's home ... I'll ask her what does it mean investigate to her ... The answer when i come back ;-)

"When i talk to audiences, they know what i'm talking about ... another thing is that they do something about it" - K. Brockwood Park (Making ideas of the Teaching)

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Sun, 25 Jun 2017 #30
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 1765 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
This reaction is very easy to observe in any of the K's seminars, in which there are few participants, some of them being even with certain verbal violence ...

One can see clearly oneself there in any of those reactions if it's able not to stop the seeing with another reaction.

I think we're using the word 'seeing' differently. K uses it to mean understanding. If I can 'see' deeply the cause of my anger or violence the anger will end. He means that in looking at...observing...the anger that one can understand the causes. In observation the unconscious background, which is the cause of the anger, is revealed. Well, this may sound confusing, and I apologize if it does, as I wrote it quickly. Have to leave for work soon.

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