Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Thought and the space between thought


Displaying posts 31 - 34 of 34 in total
Sun, 19 Mar 2017 #31
Thumb_open-uri20151228-18124-1kyi3s7-0 Jose Roberto Moreira Brazil 12 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
Yes, by definition ... but K also said somewhere, that thought is able to keep some memory of that space without the me ... and it is through that memory that though tries to penetrate that space in its wish to understand it ... And so, it is in that trying to understand that space by thought itself that that which creates the disturbance that prevents us to observe it really occurs ... Because that space will never be understood by thought but simply living it without thought ... And it is in that living space that everything is understood by nobody.

Yes, Juan, sometimes, while watching a face, for instance, there is only the face, the person I am looking at. There is no me. Of course, it happens randomically, I have no control on it. It is a very strange feeling and yes, you are right, or K was right, I have a memory of the absence of the me, but thought cannot understand that, I cannot find words to describe that and yet it seems to be so simple, nothing extraordinary.

I wonder if that very short period is what K calls meditation.

I guess you speak Portuguese. :-)

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Sun, 19 Mar 2017 #32
Thumb_open-uri20151228-18124-1kyi3s7-0 Jose Roberto Moreira Brazil 12 posts in this forum Offline

Olive B wrote:

14:HOW CAN YOU QUOTE ME ON YOUR OWN QUESTION JOSE?

What is happening here??

It was a software problem, located exactly between my chair and my keyboard. :-)

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Sun, 19 Mar 2017 #33
Thumb_open-uri20151228-18124-1kyi3s7-0 Jose Roberto Moreira Brazil 12 posts in this forum Offline

Santi Borgni wrote:
Clive starts stating that that space is “something that is probably actually impossible to describe”. Why it is seen as being so important if one does not know a thing about it?

Very good question. Would we give it the same importance if K had not spoken about it?

Ever since I was a little boy, I suspected there was something different in the silence I could perceive, particularly when in contact with nature. But I never gave it too much importance until I read K.

Maybe the most important point here is realize that our mind is not quick enough to see when thought arises or ends and observe that time interval between.

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Sun, 19 Mar 2017 #34
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4319 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
. but K also said somewhere, that thought is able to keep some memory of that space without the me ... and it is through that memory that though tries to penetrate that space in its wish to understand it ... And so, it is in that trying to understand that space by thought itself that that which creates the disturbance that prevents us to observe it really occurs ... Because that space will never be understood by thought but simply living it without thought ... And it is in that living space that everything is understood by nobody.

I somehow missed this post earlier, but now Jose has drawn my attention to it. Yes, that you for this, Juan, I find it very interesting, This mirrors my own observations, my own perceptions. I started off the thread by saying that it is probably impossible to describe this space where thought is non existent. Thought can only describe what it knows, which is to describe itself really.

And now Jose highlights Santi's question:

Why it is seen as being so important if one does not know a thing about it?

Perhaps it is seen as important precisely because one does not, and can not, know a thing about it. The things that one does know are not very important, are they? Practical knowledge has a certain importance in providing what the body needs, but beyond that? The only importance of psychological knowledge is that it exists, and its existence has brought chaos and destruction to the world.

So looking again at the question: why is it so important to consider, to be concerned with this space beyond thought? Both these words, consider, be concerned wit, are suspect, because they still hint at the activity of thought. But I would say this space is the ending, the death of thought (even if momentary). It cuts through thought, it is an ending to thought's machinations, its causes and effects, its defenses. It reveals thought as being what it is.

And K says (or was it Juan?) that it is only in that space that understanding occurs.

I hope we can carry on with this inquiry, difficult as it is.

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