Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
A Quiet Space | moderated by Clive Elwell

Awareness .... hesitantly


Displaying posts 31 - 38 of 38 in total
Mon, 27 Feb 2017 #31
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 703 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette . wrote:
Are you saying that it isn't the same awareness that is aware of the hum of the laptop or the sound of the birds or the movement of thought? Awareness doesn't include or exclude anything, does it? That is, does awareness make an effort to concentrate?

Huguette,

No that was not what I was saying.

There is only one awareness, which is in itself whole and can only take into account other wholes. So one cannot partly hear the sound of the bird.
Being borderless and spaceless - I realize it seems a contradiction - it can take in all the sounds and all the parts.
Or as you are saying: 'Awareness doesn't include or exclude anything'.

Also awareness doesn't make an effort to concentrate that's the me I who is at that time blocking awareness.

As I was last week talking to someone why I prefer to read K. in English than in Dutch and suddenly there was a fierce debate.
During the discussion, I saw this person was defending the translation and I tried to make clear that the title subtly did not cover the contents of the book.
It turned out that she also was a translator and was defending her field and 20 years syntactic experience and also knew the translator personally.

I had tried to explain the subtle difference in the dynamics of the English and the Dutch title.
At the end of the conversation showed that I had used in the first sentence the word 'wrong' and that was the cause of the sudden occurrence discussion and she saw that I was not so much attacking the translation or translator but clarifying my motivation to the original text.

So the whole situation became clear and not my part or her part or the syntatic part. And that's the working of awareness, which couldn't take place if one of the parts would behave as superior.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 27 Feb 2017.

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Mon, 27 Feb 2017 #32
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 703 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
It's my inner feeling that noise is always there, only that when there's awareness it takes care of it ... To me awareness doesn't stop the noise, it only prevents the attachment of the 'i' to that noise that comes about when awareness is not ... Otherwise awareness could never talk about noise ... But this is my inner feeling and i could be mistaken.

HI Juan,

Would you agree that this attachment to the 'I' is the noise
and the opportunity is there always ??

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Mon, 27 Feb 2017 #33
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 238 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette . wrote:
Thought sees its own limits, what it can and can't do, and awareness is watching.

Hi Huguette,

Thought is only real from the illusory point of view of the separate self.

For awareness thought doesn’t exists.

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

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Mon, 27 Feb 2017 #34
Thumb_stringio Huguette . Canada 561 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Olive,

Are you sure? Isn't awareness aware of thought, just as it is aware of the sun coming out from behind the clouds, as it is aware of a toothache, and so on? I understand that self is illusion, but I don't understand thought itself being illusory.

20 minutes later:

.... unless by "thought" you mean the actual content, image, idea. For me "thought" includes reasoning, the whole process which puts together the image and the idea. Even then, the memory which is recorded in the brain is not an illusion. It's physically stored in the brain, isn't it? Otherwise it could not be recalled.

This post was last updated by Huguette . Mon, 27 Feb 2017.

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Mon, 27 Feb 2017 #35
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 238 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette . wrote:
Isn't awareness aware of thought, just as it is aware of the sun coming out from behind the clouds, as it is aware of a toothache, and so on?

It is not possible for awareness to know a finite object, it is only from the view point of a seperate self that finite objects exist.

You are mixing things up, the sun is infinite awareness, and toothache is a finite object.

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

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Mon, 27 Feb 2017 #36
Thumb_kinfonet_avatar Clive Elwell New Zealand 4264 posts in this forum Offline

Huguette (#21). wrote:
I’m NOT saying it’s useless to talk about awareness.

On this forum, and I think in our own lives, there is no certainty of knowledge. We are exploring, we are venturing into unknown territory. And so yes, there is no room for conclusions, no room for definitive statements about the nature of reality, the nature of the mind.

We may in the process of investigation discover certain things, but then we cannot turn these discoveries into conclusions, into immutable truths. Thus the mind is always free to look afresh – and on this basis we can examine this issue of awareness, I feel, Huguette. And we may – and almost certainly do – make mistakes, get 'carried away' by thought-feeling, but these mistakes are not irrevocable..

Huguette . wrote:
I AM saying that it’s useless to talk about what awareness IS, to try to encapsulate it ...

Yes, I find this a meaningful distinction, Huguette.

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Tue, 28 Feb 2017 #37
Thumb_rodin_de_denker Olive B Netherlands 238 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
Could you tell us please, what is observed by awareness then?

Hi Juan,

Fore awareness there is only infinite awareness.

Juan E wrote:
Could you explain why a finite object like the sun can be infinite awareness?

The sun is infinite awareness, (and even that is not totally true, but for the sake of the conversation)not a finite object.

Experience alone must be the test of reality.

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Tue, 28 Feb 2017 #38
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 703 posts in this forum Offline

Juan E wrote:
Do you mean that the opportunity to be attached is always there?

Yes, I meant that but also the opportunity to be detached is always there,
only this last one comes to us, one can't invite IT to come to you !!

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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