Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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K: Negative thinking is the highest thinking.


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Sun, 12 Jan 2020 #31
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 159 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Douglas: "Wait - Its actually Negative thinking (the good, creative one) that I Don't understand clearly"

One Self : "To approach positively the 'negative thinking' is again falling into the trap of imitation which is not creative."

? sounds like you're saying "I Don't understand" is a bit too positive ?

Look, see, let go

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Mon, 13 Jan 2020 #32
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

If you are interested in K's negative approach, please read the "On Love" chapter in The First and Last Freedom. (The online version is here: https://selfdefinition.org/krishnamurti/Jiddu_K... and you can scroll down to Chapter 44.)

The whole chapter is very important but it starts like this:

Question: What do you mean by love?

Krishnamurti: We are going to discover by understanding what love is not, because, as love is the unknown, we must come to it by discarding the known. The unknown cannot be discovered by a mind that is full of the known. What we are going to do is to find out the values of the known, look at the known, and when that is looked at purely, without condemnation, the mind becomes free from the known; then we shall know what love is. So, we must approach love negatively, not positively.

What is love with most of us? When we say we love somebody, what do we mean? We mean we possess that person. From that possession arises jealousy, because if I lose him or her what happens? I feel empty, lost; therefore I legalize possession; I hold him or her. From holding, possessing that person, there is jealousy, there is fear and all the innumerable conflicts that arise from possession. Surely such possession is not love, is it?

(See the chapter for the rest of K's answer.)

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 13 Jan 2020.

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Mon, 13 Jan 2020 #33
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 159 posts in this forum Offline

Ok thanks - I get it.

PS - Link not working

Look, see, let go

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Mon, 13 Jan 2020 #34
Thumb_spock Douglas MacRae-Smith France 159 posts in this forum Offline

Good luck!

Look, see, let go

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Mon, 13 Jan 2020 #35
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

This whole thing depends on what one wants in life. Most people want to possess or be possessed . So they stop there and remain satisfied or pretend to be satisfied . But as k says to keep the flame of discontent alive one has to find out if there is such a thing as love which is not merely sexual attraction or the desire to own or be owned.

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Tue, 14 Jan 2020 #36
Thumb_2494 Peter Speelman Netherlands 25 posts in this forum Offline

Sing once again with me
Our strange duet
My power over you
Grows stronger yet
And though you turn from me
To glance behind
The Phantom of the Opera is there
Inside your mind

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Wed, 26 Feb 2020 #37
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Thought projects the future in a way that everything will be getting better in the end. That is how self-success is based on. Thought always hopes for a light in the end of the tunnel. But it is an illusion. Therefore negative thinking is not to depend on positive/negative projections of thought at all.

This post was last updated by One Self Wed, 26 Feb 2020.

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Wed, 26 Feb 2020 #38
Thumb_coa104 Ken D United States 18 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti baffles a Jesuit. Apparently the Jesuit cannot comprehend the notion of "freedom". Check out 1 hour 19 minutes in.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/urgency-o...

"Sow the seed of freedom, which is to awaken intelligence; for with that intelligence you can tackle all the problems of life." Krishnamurti

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Wed, 26 Feb 2020 #39
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

So thought being the projection into the future is beneficial when it is strictly technological, for example how to play tennis or how to drive a car and so on but psychologically thought's projections are the cause of isolation and separations and antagonism in relationship. And according to K relationship is how we exist. Nothing can exist without relationship. And if our relationship with people and friends and relatives is based on the projection of thought then there is fundumenaly something wrong in our relationship .

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Thu, 27 Feb 2020 #40
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Thought is never new, for thought is the response of memory, experience, knowledge. Thought, because it is old, makes this thing which you have looked at with delight and felt tremendously for the moment, old. From the old you derive pleasure, never from the new. There is no time in the new.”

— J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 36

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Sat, 29 Feb 2020 #41
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
From the old you derive pleasure, never from the new. There is no time in the new.”

— J. Krishnamurti, Freedom from the Known, p. 36

So I always live in the past! Yet I know that the past is completely dead. Can it be that the present is so boring and routine that my mind escapes into the pleasure of the past?

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Fri, 06 Mar 2020 #42
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

If I am to learn what negative thinking is which Krishnamurti said that "negative thinking is the highst ..." what am I to do? Do I read more K?

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Fri, 06 Mar 2020 #43
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 782 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
If I am to learn what negative thinking is which Krishnamurti said that "negative thinking is the highst ..." what am I to do? Do I read more K?

That hasn't helped so far, has it? Why not be aware of what is?

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Fri, 06 Mar 2020 #44
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Why not be aware of what is?

Do we really know what it means to be aware? I doubt it. It means not to compare,not to measure, not to distort , not to analyze and not to do a lot of things that we do mechanically.
Do we know what it means to be aware? No.

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Fri, 06 Mar 2020 #45
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Do we really know what it means to be aware? I doubt it. It means not to compare,not to measure, not to distort , not to analyze and not to do a lot of things that we do mechanically.

What happens when I don't compare myself or someone else with an ideal or another person? Something new doesn't it?

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Sat, 07 Mar 2020 #46
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

The fact is that if you don't think life becomes a bore. Thinking for oneself implies honesty ,does it not ? What does it actually mean to think for oneself?

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Sat, 07 Mar 2020 #47
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

It means honesty which we don't have at all. We try to calm ourselves with ideas and conclusions in a world that actually is in perpetual conflict.

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Tue, 17 Mar 2020 #48
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

Public Talk 25th January, 1948 | Mumbai, India

Now, because the individual, you and I, are not creative, we have reduced society to this chaos. So, you and I have to be creative, because the problem is urgent; you and I must be aware of the causes of the collapse of society and create a new structure based, not on mere imitation, but on our creative understanding. Now, this implies, does it not?, negative thinking. Negative thinking is the highest form of understanding. That is, in order to understand what is creative thinking, we must approach the problem negatively; because a positive approach to the problem - which is that you and I must become creative in order to build a new structure of society - will be imitative. To understand that which is crumbling, we must investigate it, examine it negatively, not with a positive system, a positive formula, a positive conclusion.

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Thu, 19 Mar 2020 #49
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

The house is on fire , the society is collapsing economically and biologically and the kinfonet people want to know if thought can be aware of itself.
I think "if" comes in when there is no awareness of the way thought operates.
Not being aware we ask a convenient question and ultimately a convenient answer. Somehow we have become expert in calming ourselves . K says if I remember correctly that we need to be creative but I say our old minds are mechanical and repetitive. We are like a dog chasing it's own tail day after day with nothing new happening, no creativity.

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Thu, 19 Mar 2020 #50
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1630 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
The house is on fire , the society is collapsing economically and biologically...

Krishnamurti knew that the superficial society which is based on greed will collapse 100 years ago. We are witnessing that fact today which is too late for us. We all have to isolate ourselves physically from others.

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