Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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How does one go to the very source of thought?


Displaying posts 151 - 180 of 237 in total
Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #151
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
How does one find the truth of a matter for oneself? Does one think in term of acceptance or rejection? In that case one finds an authority and never find the truth of the matter for oneself. So to find the truth of the matter there has to be no authority worshiping of any kind . Then one can understand the matter through logic and relationship of things. Understanding is everything.

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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #152
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

The above is what I wrote and Jack started to attack and insult with the "you" thing.!

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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #153
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

That's because it is mistaken. Thought can not know truth according to k himself. You are confused again. Thought is the past. Time. Truth is not of time.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 #154
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

The rest of what you wrote is, frankly, random and unsupported. Opinions and beliefs have to give way to facts at some point. Don't you think?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sat, 10 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #155
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Everything I said and say is logical and factual.

Actually it's anything but logical and factual. To present a logical argument the premises of that argument have to be facts that lead to logical conclusions. Your "premises" are often, or never facts but opinions, misunderstandings, etc. Your conclusions, therefore, are not supported by facts but belief and opinion.

What you are doing, apparently, is trying to turn this forum into your personal blog. That is not what this forum is dedicated to.

By the way, the non-name you identify with on this forum, One Self, has an obvious synonym; One Ego. Self is ego. Apparently you don't know that. At any rate you have picked a suitably accurate name for yourself.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #156
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
One Self wrote:

Everything I said and say is logical and factual.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #157
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

I really don't care what jack writes. It is all abstraction around the "you" thing. As I said I have stopped reading his reactions . It is too beautiful of the day to be polluted by illusions that merely pollute the mind. As I said everything I say is true unless I make a mistake which is natural..

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #158
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words like "you" and "they" or "them" to bring about division and conflict(war). It is an illness sadism . Sadism is an illness ,it is not a choice. It is an evil addiction .

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #159
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words like "you" and "they" or "them"

You have the wit and awareness of a slow seven year old. You obviously don't see that classifying people as "evil" is actually a much more specific judgement than simply using the pronouns you, they and them. But then intelligence has never been your long suit.

One Self wrote:
As I said everything I say is true unless I make a mistake which is natural..

What is not natural is for someone to say the above about themselves and mean it. I am sure you are completely tone-deaf and have no idea of the absurdity and contradiction of your boastful statement above.

Too bad Dev doesn't moderate this forum anymore. That's also why new people can't join this forum. They get absolutely no response from Dev. I had someone who was thrown off another forum here write and tell me that recently.

You don't belong in this forum or any other adult forum. You would be more at home in a sand pile making "zooming" sounds while holding a toy truck in your hand.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #160
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Again I careless reading jacks response to me but if anybody else cares to quote him I will read only that and respond accordingly. My time is too precious to waste in pointless arguments with little jack.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #161
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words like "you" and "they" or "them" to bring about division and conflict(war). It is an illness sadism . Sadism is an illness ,it is not a choice. It is an evil addiction .

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #162
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Understanding is everything.

No understanding is not everything. There is insight which is not the result of thought.

I've pointed this out to you before. The problem with you seems to be that you believe everything you think. Just because you think it doesn't mean that it is true.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #163
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words...……
...which disagree with me.

This is really what the problem is. When someone writes that everything they said is "truth", as you have written, and someone disagrees with you your ego reacts. Only a person with a large ego and small intelligence would write:

"Everything I said and say is logical and factual." Quote from One Self. os1235

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #164
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 689 posts in this forum Offline

Basically what we have in this forum is war, isn't it so? And we who are here are responsible for it. We don't have a physical war. Fortunately we are nowhere near each other physically so there can be no physical interaction at all. But we clearly have psychological war right here in this forum. Isn't that what is going on? And we are therefore responsible for it. We are responsible for our relationship here.

What does that say about our understanding of Krishnamurti, that despite everything he said, we are here engaging in war among ourselves?

And if I feel victimized or aggressive or both here in the forum, don't I carry that out into interaction elsewhere? Doesn't the war spread and ripple out into the world?

Krishnamurti, The First and Last Freedom, On War:

War is the spectacular and bloody projection of our everyday life, is it not? War is merely an outward expression of our inward state, an enlargement of our daily action. It is more spectacular, more bloody, more destructive, but it is the collective result of our individual activities. Therefore, you and I are responsible for war and what can we do to stop it? Obviously the ever- impending war cannot be stopped by you and me, because it is already in movement; it is already taking place, though at present chiefly on the psychological level. As it is already in movement, it cannot be stopped - the issues are too many, too great, and are already committed. But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do. You and I can see what creates wars, and if we are interested in stopping wars, then we can begin to transform ourselves, who are the causes of war...

Circumstances can be controlled by us, because we have created the circumstances. Society is the product of relationship, of yours and mine together. If we change in our relationship, society changes; merely to rely on legislation, on compulsion, for the transformation of outward society, while remaining inwardly corrupt, while continuing inwardly to seek power, position, domination, is to destroy the outward, however carefully and scientifically built. That which is inward is always overcoming the outward. What causes war - religious, political or economic? Obviously belief, either in nationalism, in an ideology, or in a particular dogma. If we had no belief but goodwill, love and consideration between us, then there would be no wars. But we are fed on beliefs, ideas and dogmas and therefore we breed discontent. The present crisis is of an exceptional nature and we as human beings must either pursue the path of constant conflict and continuous wars, which are the result of our everyday action, or else see the causes of war and turn our back upon them...

If once we really felt the responsibility of our own actions, how quickly we could bring to an end all these wars, this appalling misery! But you see, we are indifferent. We have three meals a day, we have our jobs, we have our bank accounts, big or little, and we say, ”For God’s sake, don’t disturb us, leave us alone”. The higher up we are, the more we want security, permanency, tranquillity, the more we want to be left alone, to maintain things fixed as they are; but they cannot be maintained as they are, because there is nothing to maintain. Everything is disintegrating. We do not want to face these things, we do not want to face the fact that you and I are responsible for wars. You and I may talk about peace, have conferences, sit round a table and discuss, but inwardly, psychologically, we want power, posit1on, we are motivated by greed. We intrigue, we are nationalistic, we are bound by beliefs, by dogmas, for which we are willing to die and destroy each other. Do you think such men, you and I, can have peace in the world? To have peace, we must be peaceful; to live peacefully means not to create antagonism. Peace is not an ideal. To me, an ideal is merely an escape, an avoidance of what is, a contradiction of what is. An ideal prevents direct action upon what is. To have peace, we will have to love, we will have to begin not to live an ideal life but to see things as they are and act upon them, transform them. As long as each one of us is seeking psychological security, the physiological security we need - food, clothing and shelter - is destroyed. We are seeking psychological security, which does not exist; and we seek it, if we can, through power, through position, through titles, names - all of which is destroying physical security. This is an obvious fact, if you look at it.
To bring about peace in the world, to stop all wars, there must be a revolution in the individual, in you and me.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #165
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

No we don't have a war here. It takes two to have a war. What we have is a poster, One Self, who uses this forum as his personal blog. Who doesn't discuss what K pointed out but rather issues proclamations and opinions about what he thinks K was saying. Most of which are ludicrous. He has written all kinds of violent things against me including wishing for my death. I have not returned that hatred. I don't take it personally because it obviously is coming from a very troubled mind. But I do feel obligated not to ignore this forum being misused by him or anyone else for their own purposes.

And idiot?. I still am convinced that you are posting under two names. For one thing One Self's posts are not consistent. Many of them are unhinged, rambling diatribes that make no sense while others, while still making little or no sense, are more rational with dramatically better spelling and sentence structure.

And while I admit that your choice of names does not conclusively tie you together, still instead of real names these two identities are using somewhat ridiculous "titles" like the egotistic label "One Self" and "idiot?". Why not just pick a name, any name, and go with that? Why do both identities need to stand out in some way? If you have something to say then say it in the area provided for text.

Also, as I have pointed out previously, you both think the same; literally without any apparent ability to think abstractly. I have observed other things which I believe are patterns that tie the two identities together that I have noticed which I prefer to keep to myself for the time being.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #166
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

One of the causes of war as k mentions are "belief". And jack believes that oneself and idiot are the same so he tries to gang up against them. Jack also believes that oneself wishes his physical death whereas he said "fortunately there is death waiting with illnesses for evil people. He also believes that idiot is a woman as if he knows the difference between man and woman style of writing ! These are his recent nonsense. He is acting like a psychologist who thinks he knows everybody. He can't even distinguish people's style of writings! I haven't even seen any misspelling from idiot. It is obvious that English is my second language where as it is obvious that idiot speaks English fluently like Dan and many others in here. There is no limit in delusions, is there?

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #167
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

The unfortunate part is that the only thing that we can discuss in here is falsehood. Truth is either seen or not seen. No one including krishnamurti can take you to truth.
So truth cannot be discussed . But one can see falsehood in action every where in this country specially in politics and the government . They are pushing forward a law that allows schools to teach religion to the kids. Falsehood is taking over the consciousness of man.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #168
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Going back to K on wars. He said each one of us is responsible for wars that goes on in the world. He said because of the demand for psychological security we have created this insecure world with the ever increasing threat of new wars.. And he said that unless we all feel responsible for wars there cannot be peace by organizing seminars and so on. So the question is am I or are we responsible for wars and if so what are the causes of wars?

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #169
Thumb_fuzzy6 Ken D United States 47 posts in this forum Offline

Came across this obituary for Bob Michael, who used to post on various Krishnamurti websites. He died about 5 years ago....

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/readingeagle/...

"Sow the seed of freedom, which is to awaken intelligence; for with that intelligence you can tackle all the problems of life." Krishnamurti

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #170
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 689 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
And idiot?. I still am convinced that you are posting under two names.

That is false. I have told you it is false. I cannot help it if you continue to believe what is not true. I cannot stop you from continuing to spread this lie.

As K says in the quote above from The First and Last Freedom: "But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do."

There is a fire here. People continue to throw lighter fluid on it. I cannot stop it. Many have pointed it out and they will not stop.

All I can do is go away and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible. I wish everyone here well.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #171
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
As K says in the quote above from The First and Last Freedom: "But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do."

That is all that we can do given we understand the causes of Fire. Without Understanding all the causes of fire moving from one house to another house is not going work. . One of the causes of War or fire maybe the idea of me being separate from the rest of the world.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #172
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
As K says in the quote above from The First and Last Freedom: "But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do."

Please stop both of your identities from quoting K to justify your own shallow, erroneous opinions.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #173
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Please...

Please exit this site and be quiet.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #174
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

So most of the things that jack says are false and fabricated to create conflict and war. Just like his president . They both do the same thing. Possibly it is due to old age and regret of a wasted life... I don't know.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #175
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Please exit this site and be quiet.

After your drunken, violent rant the other day hoping for someone's death you have no room to ask anyone any thing.

You're an idiot. Who else would come to a K site and say everything they say is the truth. And if anyone is like Trump it's you brother. You are a narcissistic psycho and stupid. Any you're a liar. Trump right down the line.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #176
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 886 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Basically what we have in this forum is war, isn't it so? And we who are here are responsible for it.

Unfortunately, if you go to almost any online forum you will probably find conflict taking place to varying degrees. The only way to manage this is to have clear rules and a moderator who is, preferably, seen as neutral. The moderator needs to be active and remind forum members of the rules and take steps when unacceptable posts are written. According to Jack, Dev is no longer moderating this forum. However, somebody seems to be reading the posts as the QOTD is often relevant to what we are talking about here. Of course, if someone gets expelled they can always come back with a different identity but effective moderation should improve matters.

What is clear is that the current set-up isn't working. There are some options:


  1. Come to some sort of an agreement with the few people that post here on what is and isn't acceptable.

  2. Start a new forum on this site and agree on a moderator.

  3. Go somewhere completely different.

I am open to trying option 1 first. Any thoughts?

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #177
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
After my drunken, violent rant the other day hoping for someone's death I have no room to ask anyone any thing.

I am an idiot. Who else would come to a K site and say everything they say is the truth. And if anyone is like Trump it's my brother. I am a narcissistic psycho and stupid. Any I am a liar. Trump right down the line.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #178
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

More falsehood.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #179
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Come to some sort of an agreement with the few people that post here on what is and isn't acceptable.

I can be your moderator but I don't work for free. If you can afford me I can kick people out so only a few boring people remain. But I need to get paid well first:)

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #180
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1449 posts in this forum Offline

The problem with a moderator is that the moderator needs to be moderated by another moderator and so on. And there are always those who try to flatter their way up. If you are enough intellectual(I don't mean spelling, grammar and so on) you don't need an authority to sort you out. You can go beyond words. After all there is private messages(that jack keeps sending me but I ignore them) . And there is also the other two quiet places that you can join. So stop complaining and take it as it is.

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