Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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How does one go to the very source of thought?


Displaying posts 151 - 180 of 225 in total
Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #151
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words like "you" and "they" or "them" to bring about division and conflict(war). It is an illness sadism . Sadism is an illness ,it is not a choice. It is an evil addiction .

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #152
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5788 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Understanding is everything.

No understanding is not everything. There is insight which is not the result of thought.

I've pointed this out to you before. The problem with you seems to be that you believe everything you think. Just because you think it doesn't mean that it is true.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Sun, 11 Aug 2019 #153
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5788 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
By the word "evil people" I mean those who use words...……
...which disagree with me.

This is really what the problem is. When someone writes that everything they said is "truth", as you have written, and someone disagrees with you your ego reacts. Only a person with a large ego and small intelligence would write:

"Everything I said and say is logical and factual." Quote from One Self. os1235

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Sun, 11 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #154
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 755 posts in this forum Offline

Basically what we have in this forum is war, isn't it so? And we who are here are responsible for it. We don't have a physical war. Fortunately we are nowhere near each other physically so there can be no physical interaction at all. But we clearly have psychological war right here in this forum. Isn't that what is going on? And we are therefore responsible for it. We are responsible for our relationship here.

What does that say about our understanding of Krishnamurti, that despite everything he said, we are here engaging in war among ourselves?

And if I feel victimized or aggressive or both here in the forum, don't I carry that out into interaction elsewhere? Doesn't the war spread and ripple out into the world?

Krishnamurti, The First and Last Freedom, On War:

War is the spectacular and bloody projection of our everyday life, is it not? War is merely an outward expression of our inward state, an enlargement of our daily action. It is more spectacular, more bloody, more destructive, but it is the collective result of our individual activities. Therefore, you and I are responsible for war and what can we do to stop it? Obviously the ever- impending war cannot be stopped by you and me, because it is already in movement; it is already taking place, though at present chiefly on the psychological level. As it is already in movement, it cannot be stopped - the issues are too many, too great, and are already committed. But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do. You and I can see what creates wars, and if we are interested in stopping wars, then we can begin to transform ourselves, who are the causes of war...

Circumstances can be controlled by us, because we have created the circumstances. Society is the product of relationship, of yours and mine together. If we change in our relationship, society changes; merely to rely on legislation, on compulsion, for the transformation of outward society, while remaining inwardly corrupt, while continuing inwardly to seek power, position, domination, is to destroy the outward, however carefully and scientifically built. That which is inward is always overcoming the outward. What causes war - religious, political or economic? Obviously belief, either in nationalism, in an ideology, or in a particular dogma. If we had no belief but goodwill, love and consideration between us, then there would be no wars. But we are fed on beliefs, ideas and dogmas and therefore we breed discontent. The present crisis is of an exceptional nature and we as human beings must either pursue the path of constant conflict and continuous wars, which are the result of our everyday action, or else see the causes of war and turn our back upon them...

If once we really felt the responsibility of our own actions, how quickly we could bring to an end all these wars, this appalling misery! But you see, we are indifferent. We have three meals a day, we have our jobs, we have our bank accounts, big or little, and we say, ”For God’s sake, don’t disturb us, leave us alone”. The higher up we are, the more we want security, permanency, tranquillity, the more we want to be left alone, to maintain things fixed as they are; but they cannot be maintained as they are, because there is nothing to maintain. Everything is disintegrating. We do not want to face these things, we do not want to face the fact that you and I are responsible for wars. You and I may talk about peace, have conferences, sit round a table and discuss, but inwardly, psychologically, we want power, posit1on, we are motivated by greed. We intrigue, we are nationalistic, we are bound by beliefs, by dogmas, for which we are willing to die and destroy each other. Do you think such men, you and I, can have peace in the world? To have peace, we must be peaceful; to live peacefully means not to create antagonism. Peace is not an ideal. To me, an ideal is merely an escape, an avoidance of what is, a contradiction of what is. An ideal prevents direct action upon what is. To have peace, we will have to love, we will have to begin not to live an ideal life but to see things as they are and act upon them, transform them. As long as each one of us is seeking psychological security, the physiological security we need - food, clothing and shelter - is destroyed. We are seeking psychological security, which does not exist; and we seek it, if we can, through power, through position, through titles, names - all of which is destroying physical security. This is an obvious fact, if you look at it.
To bring about peace in the world, to stop all wars, there must be a revolution in the individual, in you and me.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #155
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5788 posts in this forum Offline

No we don't have a war here. It takes two to have a war. What we have is a poster, One Self, who uses this forum as his personal blog. Who doesn't discuss what K pointed out but rather issues proclamations and opinions about what he thinks K was saying. Most of which are ludicrous. He has written all kinds of violent things against me including wishing for my death. I have not returned that hatred. I don't take it personally because it obviously is coming from a very troubled mind. But I do feel obligated not to ignore this forum being misused by him or anyone else for their own purposes.

And idiot?. I still am convinced that you are posting under two names. For one thing One Self's posts are not consistent. Many of them are unhinged, rambling diatribes that make no sense while others, while still making little or no sense, are more rational with dramatically better spelling and sentence structure.

And while I admit that your choice of names does not conclusively tie you together, still instead of real names these two identities are using somewhat ridiculous "titles" like the egotistic label "One Self" and "idiot?". Why not just pick a name, any name, and go with that? Why do both identities need to stand out in some way? If you have something to say then say it in the area provided for text.

Also, as I have pointed out previously, you both think the same; literally without any apparent ability to think abstractly. I have observed other things which I believe are patterns that tie the two identities together that I have noticed which I prefer to keep to myself for the time being.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #156
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

One of the causes of war as k mentions are "belief". And jack believes that oneself and idiot are the same so he tries to gang up against them. Jack also believes that oneself wishes his physical death whereas he said "fortunately there is death waiting with illnesses for evil people. He also believes that idiot is a woman as if he knows the difference between man and woman style of writing ! These are his recent nonsense. He is acting like a psychologist who thinks he knows everybody. He can't even distinguish people's style of writings! I haven't even seen any misspelling from idiot. It is obvious that English is my second language where as it is obvious that idiot speaks English fluently like Dan and many others in here. There is no limit in delusions, is there?

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #157
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

The unfortunate part is that the only thing that we can discuss in here is falsehood. Truth is either seen or not seen. No one including krishnamurti can take you to truth.
So truth cannot be discussed . But one can see falsehood in action every where in this country specially in politics and the government . They are pushing forward a law that allows schools to teach religion to the kids. Falsehood is taking over the consciousness of man.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #158
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

Going back to K on wars. He said each one of us is responsible for wars that goes on in the world. He said because of the demand for psychological security we have created this insecure world with the ever increasing threat of new wars.. And he said that unless we all feel responsible for wars there cannot be peace by organizing seminars and so on. So the question is am I or are we responsible for wars and if so what are the causes of wars?

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #159
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 755 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
And idiot?. I still am convinced that you are posting under two names.

That is false. I have told you it is false. I cannot help it if you continue to believe what is not true. I cannot stop you from continuing to spread this lie.

As K says in the quote above from The First and Last Freedom: "But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do."

There is a fire here. People continue to throw lighter fluid on it. I cannot stop it. Many have pointed it out and they will not stop.

All I can do is go away and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible. I wish everyone here well.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Mon, 12 Aug 2019.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #160
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
As K says in the quote above from The First and Last Freedom: "But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do."

That is all that we can do given we understand the causes of Fire. Without Understanding all the causes of fire moving from one house to another house is not going work. . One of the causes of War or fire maybe the idea of me being separate from the rest of the world.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #161
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5788 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
As K says in the quote above from The First and Last Freedom: "But you and I, seeing that the house is on fire, can understand the causes of that fire, can go away from it and build in a new place with different materials that are not combustible, that will not produce other wars. That is all that we can do."

Please stop both of your identities from quoting K to justify your own shallow, erroneous opinions.

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Mon, 12 Aug 2019 #162
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Please...

Please exit this site and be quiet.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #163
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

So most of the things that jack says are false and fabricated to create conflict and war. Just like his president . They both do the same thing. Possibly it is due to old age and regret of a wasted life... I don't know.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #164
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5788 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Please exit this site and be quiet.

After your drunken, violent rant the other day hoping for someone's death you have no room to ask anyone any thing.

You're an idiot. Who else would come to a K site and say everything they say is the truth. And if anyone is like Trump it's you brother. You are a narcissistic psycho and stupid. Any you're a liar. Trump right down the line.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #165
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 930 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Basically what we have in this forum is war, isn't it so? And we who are here are responsible for it.

Unfortunately, if you go to almost any online forum you will probably find conflict taking place to varying degrees. The only way to manage this is to have clear rules and a moderator who is, preferably, seen as neutral. The moderator needs to be active and remind forum members of the rules and take steps when unacceptable posts are written. According to Jack, Dev is no longer moderating this forum. However, somebody seems to be reading the posts as the QOTD is often relevant to what we are talking about here. Of course, if someone gets expelled they can always come back with a different identity but effective moderation should improve matters.

What is clear is that the current set-up isn't working. There are some options:


  1. Come to some sort of an agreement with the few people that post here on what is and isn't acceptable.

  2. Start a new forum on this site and agree on a moderator.

  3. Go somewhere completely different.

I am open to trying option 1 first. Any thoughts?

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #166
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
After my drunken, violent rant the other day hoping for someone's death I have no room to ask anyone any thing.

I am an idiot. Who else would come to a K site and say everything they say is the truth. And if anyone is like Trump it's my brother. I am a narcissistic psycho and stupid. Any I am a liar. Trump right down the line.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #167
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

More falsehood.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #168
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Come to some sort of an agreement with the few people that post here on what is and isn't acceptable.

I can be your moderator but I don't work for free. If you can afford me I can kick people out so only a few boring people remain. But I need to get paid well first:)

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #169
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

The problem with a moderator is that the moderator needs to be moderated by another moderator and so on. And there are always those who try to flatter their way up. If you are enough intellectual(I don't mean spelling, grammar and so on) you don't need an authority to sort you out. You can go beyond words. After all there is private messages(that jack keeps sending me but I ignore them) . And there is also the other two quiet places that you can join. So stop complaining and take it as it is.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #170
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5788 posts in this forum Offline

You post like a not too bright little child. You can't come up with things of your own to write that make any sense so all you have left is to quote others and cut and paste.

One Self wrote:
And there is also the other two quiet places that you can join. So stop complaining and take it as it is.

Why don't you try to get on to the other two forums? See how well you do there. I'm sure John would love to have you there posting. And Clive, he'd really appreciate your wit, or should I say half-wit? Give it a try.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Tue, 13 Aug 2019.

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Tue, 13 Aug 2019 #171
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

QUESTIONER: How can a man be honest if he is doing the work of dishonesty?

KRISHNAMURTI: But you see, my dear child, we do not acknowledge that we are doing something dishonest. You think I am doing something dishonest but I think I am doing something very honest. But for me to realize that I am dishonest is one of the most difficult things, because we do not want to acknowledge to ourselves that we are dishonest. I do not acknowledge to myself that I am not telling the truth, so I find various excuses, judgements - it's your fault, circumstances have forced me, and so on and so on. I never say to myself, "By Jove, I am not telling the truth!" It is only when I see that I am not telling the truth that I am honest to myself. Then I will act honestly.
J.Krishnamurti, Talk 2, Students, Rajghat, 14 December 1967

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Wed, 14 Aug 2019 #172
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

As I say I speak only the truth. Because I am a scientist. Evil people can insult anything to escape themselves from themselves.

Death is waiting and is extremely busy currently in the world...

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Wed, 14 Aug 2019 #173
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5788 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
As I say I speak only the truth. Because I am a scientist.

Were you a scientist when you warned us about the threat of carbon monoxide in the atmosphere? It's carbon dioxide in the atmosphere that is a threat, that is one of the main greenhouse gases causing global warming, dumbass. You're not a scientist. You're barely educated. And truth has nothing to do with being a scientist. Facts gleaned from observation and experimentation are what scientists do. Truth is not a product of education and thinking. K has pointed this out so many times but of course you wouldn't know that.

I know you post these idiotic things you say just to get a rise out of someone. Because you can't post anything intelligent. You need to ask why you want to keep this forum stirred up like you do. And also look at all the threads on this forum that end with a post from you. These are all of the threads your idiotic posts have killed.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 14 Aug 2019.

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Wed, 14 Aug 2019 #174
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

Jack you exploited the military for money and the military exploited your brain. You have money but no brain left. Krishnamurti was a scientist . You worship status. There are scientists who drive uber. Degrees doesn't mean shit today old man. Your brain is so rotten that you accused idiot to be me and idiot left because of your useless brain. A true scientist is not the one with a degree(which happens that I have a science degree from a US university) but a person who is factual and doesn't try to delude people with false accusation. No wonder your president is Trump. The similarities are amazing. He went to a military school! And a person who claims that he talked to Krishnamurti goes and does the opposite and joins the army to kill! Only jack would do that. Jack you are the thief in Krishnamurti story that never had day of peace in his life after hearing the truth.

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Wed, 14 Aug 2019 #175
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

How does one go to the very source of thought?
We saw that the source of thought is the Brain. Now if that brain is rotting inside then the outcome of that brain which is thought must be rotting away also. That is logical.

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Wed, 14 Aug 2019 #176
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

It is unfortunate that there are so many interesting topic in here and Jack is obsessed with one-selfand he justifies that obsession left and right in this forum.

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Wed, 14 Aug 2019 #177
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

I use my cellphone to write in here most of the time so misspelling happens. So don't jomp on me for misspelling. And I say that one more time English is my second language and if you Google did Trump go to
military school you find the truth.

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Wed, 14 Aug 2019 #178
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
But I really recommend that you get some help for your obviously worsening mental disorder.

As I said anything that Mr false says the opposite of that is true. He is the one who is insane .

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Thu, 15 Aug 2019 #179
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti's life is all about compassion and love . look at his follower jack he is 180 degree opposite of Krishnamurti. He is full of hate and antagonism. And he is not ashamed of that!

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Thu, 15 Aug 2019 #180
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1583 posts in this forum Offline

I think we (rational people) can use this site to learn about ourselves. Jack is me. He is a mirror to look at myself. He is identical to my ego. Wants to do the same things. But the antagonism part g him I do not understand and I leave That part to him to bear with..

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