Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Can we ask the right question?


Displaying posts 301 - 330 of 358 in total
Thu, 14 Feb 2019 #301
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia is close minded and finished. Wim is on medications and what he says is always irrelevant , jack is ignorant and anti-k. These three are the cause of decline in this site. And no conversation should be done with them by oneself.

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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 #302
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1357 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
I am talking to myself. I really don't care about dirty old fools.

the very fact that you labeling anyone who can not follow your way of thinking 'foolish', indicates that you haven't understood anything about your worldteacher.

One Self wrote:
Patricia is close minded and finished. Wim is on medications and what he says is always irrelevant , jack is ignorant and anti-k. These three are the cause of decline in this site. And no conversation should be done with them by oneself.

Dictatorship is anti K.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 #303
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

One Self: Until we understand what we are doing with our lives we cannot talk about love.

That is why I asked you this question: what matters most to you?

Don’t answer it. Find out first before any quick response. It may take you a week or a year to find out; or it may take a few seconds. But first find out directly for yourself what matters most.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Thu, 14 Feb 2019.

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Thu, 14 Feb 2019 #304
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
you labeling anyone who can not follow your way of thinking 'foolish'.

If anyone can't follow my way of thinking then should not make irrelevant comments . Plus I don't label anyone ,I tell who they have been acting as in here. They may have a double life but in here that is what they are to me,useless trolls.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #305
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
That is why I asked you this question: what matters most to you?

What matter most to you means what? To most people security is the most important. I mean physical security of food cloth and shelter. My question is that why is there such a thought that something has to be more important than something else psychologically? The next question that comes up is that important to who? This is a little complicated and needs investigation but we are lazy to go into these things. We are fast food culture. We want everything immediately.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #306
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5514 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
Plus I don't label anyone ,

You label everyone. Are you so oblivious to what you say, to what you write that even that fact escapes you? Look at what you write. It's labelling.

The following are examples of you labeling from post #307. You are so blind you don't even know what you are writing. It's all crap and that's why, except for Paul, everyone else has stopped really responding to you on a regular basis. You don't even know yourself at all.

One self wrote:
Patricia is close minded and finished. Wim is on medications and what he says is always irrelevant , jack is ignorant and anti-k.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #307
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5514 posts in this forum Offline

One self, it's fairly obvious that you are a very sick person. Get help.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #308
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1357 posts in this forum Offline

isn't obvious that, because he is close minded , he is helpless,
precisely the characteristic of any self including 'One Self' ?

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Fri, 15 Feb 2019.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #309
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1375 posts in this forum Offline

My suggestion to you One Self, for what it's worth, is to apologize for any rude remarks, any name-calling and any insults you've posted here that may have hurt others. And to forgive those whose remarks may have caused you pain...and then, it may be possible to move on.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #310
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

My suggestion to you Dan is that don't take sides . Tell what you said to jack. He is the one who calls you "asshole" and insists about it. Asshole is a label but ignorance is a fact. Twisted mind is a fact. There is no need to apologize for pointing out a fact about someone who is sitting there to attack you all the time. Apparently you guys have ran out of things to talk about. Start a discussion that is interesting and move on. Don't let jack lead you to nowhere as he has done so far.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #311
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Go back and see when he said asshole.
I wrote that new years are all based on religions. We have christian new year ,Jewish new year ,Muslim new year ,Chinese new year and so on. As soon as I said the above fact he labels me " asshole". Who would study the teachings and still be pro religion? ! He started the vulgarity and he is proud of it because that way he gets attention from you guys(the regulars in this site). He tries to distort my thinking by his use of foul languages so I never trust this guy. I don't use foul language, that is too low. when I say someone is anti-k I mean someone who his behaviour and way of thinking is anti-k. Krishnamurti said respectability is a curse .

This post was last updated by One Self Fri, 15 Feb 2019.

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #312
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1375 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
My suggestion to you Dan is that don't take sides .

I'll just say this. I'm sorry that you read my post to you as "taking sides', that was not in my mind. (If any, I thought that I was taking yours)...I actually coincidentally apologized to someone this morning even though I thought in this case it was the other party that had it all 'wrong'... 'Conflict' to me is pernicious and corrosive so when an apology can 'smooth the waters', I see it as the 'right' action. (Though it can be pretty uncomfortable!)

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #313
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Yes I understand that by simply being submissive one creates less conflict. But the house is on fire. There is increasing world crisis. There is a rapid growing of racial hate in this country that didn't exist before. The house is on fire and we are picking on each other's spellings and English!

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Fri, 15 Feb 2019 #314
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

One can be aware of the trivial . And not make them to become the dominate . That is intelligence. To see the false as false and to see the truth in false.

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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 #315
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

It is odd that she uses the word "krishnamurti folowers"

Ken D wrote:
Article on Krishnamurti:

"Today, the complex is one of eight educational centers around the world where Krishnamurti’s followers, drawn by his message to question established doctrine, hope to change the way people think about their religious beliefs. And using a network of schools, youth programs and dialogue groups, the foundation is working to diversify its reach to include a younger audience."

There is no krishnamurti's doctrine to follow.
The problem is that kfa hires mostly people who are not very familiar with the teachings. But then again who cares!

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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 #316
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1218 posts in this forum Offline

What can we do for the world?

This morning this thought came:

It is necessary that each human being should come to see that there is something beyond the material.

Can I say? Not just any thing, not an idea, not ideas, but the actuality.

And words destroy everything? No amount of words can capture that. Can convey that.

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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 #317
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 1218 posts in this forum Offline

Something very close.

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Sat, 16 Feb 2019.

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Sat, 16 Feb 2019 #318
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1357 posts in this forum Offline

Peter Kesting wrote:
And words destroy everything?

Hi Peter,
Is this not depending on where those words came from ?
They also can be very clear in the pointing to the necessity of the seeing !

From Truth and Actuality, first chapter:

Krishnamurti: It includes all that is.

David Bohm: Yes, so the truth is one. But there are many different things in the field of reality. Each thing is conditioned, the whole field of reality is conditioned. But clearly, truth itself cannot be conditioned or dependent on things.

Krishnamurti: What then is the relationship to reality of the man who is truth?

David Bohm: He sees all the things and, in doing this, he comprehends reality. What the word comprehends means is to hold it all together.

Krishnamurti: He doesn’t separate reality. He says, ‘I comprehend it, I hold it, I see it’.

David Bohm: Yes, it’s all one field of reality, himself and everything. But it has things in it that are conditioned and he comprehends the conditions.

Krishnamurti: And because he comprehends conditioning, he is free of conditioning.

David Bohm: It seems clear then that all our knowledge, being based on thought, is actually a part of this one conditioned field of reality.

Krishnamurti: Now another question. Suppose I am a scholar; I’m full of such conditioned and conditioning knowledge. How am I to comprehend truth in the sense of holding it all together?

David Bohm: I don’t think you can comprehend truth.

Krishnamurti: Say I have studied all my life, I’ve devoted all my life to knowledge, which is reality.

David Bohm: Yes, and it is also about a bigger reality.

Krishnamurti: And suppose you come along and say, ‘Truth is somewhere else, it’s not that’. I accept you, because you show it to me, and so I say, ‘Please help me to move from here to that’. Because once I get that, I comprehend it. If I live here, then my comprehension is always fragmented. Therefore my knowledge tells me, ‘This is reality but it is not truth’. And suppose you come along and say, ‘No, it is not’. And I ask: Please tell me how to move from here to that.

David Bohm: Well, we’ve just said we can’t move . . .

Krishnamurti: I’m putting it briefly. What am I to do?

David Bohm: I think I have to see that this whole structure of knowledge is inevitably false, because my reality is twisted.

Krishnamurti: Would you say the content of my consciousness is knowledge?

David Bohm: Yes.

Krishnamurti: How am I to empty that consciousness and yet retain knowledge that is not twisted – otherwise I can’t function – and reach a state, or whatever it is, that will comprehend reality. I don’t know if I’m making myself clear.

David Bohm: Yes.

Krishnamurti: What I’m asking is: My human consciousness is its content, which is knowledge; it’s a messy conglomeration of irrational knowledge and some that is correct. Can that consciousness comprehend, or bring into itself, truth?

David Bohm: No, it can’t.

Krishnamurti: Therefore, can this consciousness go to that truth? It can’t either. Then what?

David Bohm: There can be a perception of the falseness in this consciousness. This consciousness is false, in the sense that it does not run true. Because of the confused content it does not run true.

Krishnamurti: It’s contradictory.

David Bohm: It muddles things up.

Krishnamurti: Not, ‘muddles things up’; it is a muddle.

David Bohm: It is a muddle, yes, in the way it moves. Now then, one of the main points of the muddle is that when consciousness reflects on itself, the reflection has this character: It’s as if there were a mirror and consciousness were looking at itself through the mirror and the mirror is reflecting consciousness as if it were not consciousness but an independent reality.

Krishnamurti: Yes.

David Bohm: Now therefore, the action that consciousness takes is wrong, because it tries to improve the apparently independent reality, whereas in fact to do this is just a muddle. I would like to put it this way: The whole of consciousness is somehow an instrument that is connected to a deeper energy. And as long as consciousness is connected in that way, it maintains its state of wrong action.

Krishnamurti: Yes.

David Bohm: So on seeing that this consciousness is reflecting itself wrongly as independent of thought, what is needed is somehow to disconnect the energy of consciousness. The whole of consciousness has to be disconnected, so it would, as it were, lie there without energy.

Krishnamurti: You’re saying don’t feed it. My consciousness is a muddle, it is confused, contradictory, and all the rest of it. And its very contradiction, its very muddle, gives it its own energy.

David Bohm: Well, I would say that the energy is not actually coming from consciousness, but that as long as the energy is coming, consciousness keeps the muddle going.

Krishnamurti: From where does it come?

David Bohm: We’d have to say that perhaps it comes from something deeper.

Krishnamurti: If it comes from something deeper, then we enter into the whole field of gods and outside agency and so on.

David Bohm: No, I wouldn’t say the energy comes from an outside agency. I would prefer to say it comes from me, in some sense.

Krishnamurti: Then the ‘me’ is this consciousness?

David Bohm: Yes.

Krishnamurti: So the content is creating its own energy. Would you say that?

David Bohm: In some sense it is, but the puzzle is that it seems impossible for this content to create its own energy. That would be saying that the content is able to create its own energy.

Krishnamurti: Actually, the content is creating its own energy. Look, I’m in contradiction and that very contradiction gives me vitality. I have opposing desires. When I have opposing desires I have energy, I fight. Therefore, that desire is creating the energy – not God, or something profounder – it is still desire. This is the trick that so many played. They say there is an outside agency, a deeper energy – but then one’s back in the old field. But I realize that the energy of contradiction, the energy of desire, of will, of pursuit of pleasure is the content of my consciousness; that is, consciousness is creating its own energy. Reality is this; reality is creating its own energy. I may say, ‘I derive my energy deep down’, but it’s still reality.

David Bohm: Yes, suppose we accept that, but the point is that seeing the truth of this . . .

Krishnamurti: . . . that’s what I want to get at. Is this energy different from the energy of truth?

David Bohm: Yes.

Krishnamurti: It is different.

David Bohm: But let’s try to put it like this: Reality may have many levels of energy.

Krishnamurti: Yes.

David Bohm: But a certain part of the energy has gone off the straight line. Let’s say the brain feeds energy to all the thought processes. Now, if somehow the brain didn’t feed energy to the thought process that is confused, then the thing might straighten out.

Krishnamurti: That’s it. If this energy runs along the straight thread it is a reality without contradiction. It’s an energy that is endless because it has no friction. Now is that energy different from the energy of truth?

David Bohm: Yes. They are different, and as we once discussed, there must be a deeper common source.

Krishnamurti: I’m not sure. You are suggesting that they both spring out of the same root.

David Bohm: That’s what I suggest. But for the moment there is the energy of truth that can comprehend the reality and . . .

Krishnamurti: . . . the other way it cannot.

David Bohm: No, it cannot; but there appears to be some connection in the sense that when truth comprehends reality, reality goes straight. So there appears to be a connection at least one way.

Krishnamurti: That’s right, a one-way connection – truth loves this, this doesn’t love truth.

David Bohm: But once the connection has been made, then reality runs true and does not waste energy or make confusion.

Krishnamurti: You see, that’s where meditation comes in. Generally, meditation is from here to there, with practice and all the rest of it. To move from this to that.

David Bohm: Move from one reality to another.

Krishnamurti: That’s right. Meditation is actually seeing what is. But generally meditation is taken as moving from one reality to another

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 #319
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

So the man of truth has no problem living with the reality of our daily life. ..

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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 #320
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

The man of truth sees false as false. Not false as truth..that is the difference. ..

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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 #321
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

One Self: What matter most to you means what? To most people security is the most important.

It means: what matters most to you? Are you like most people? Is it security first?

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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 #322
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5514 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
It means: what matters most to you? Are you like most people? Is it security first?

Paul what do you expect to happen when you try to converse with "one self"? He is the consummate follower of Krishnamurti. He doesn't see this, of course. He has idealized K and what K has pointed out and he, obviously, understands none of it.

He has come to dominate this site by flooding it with ridiculous posts, thus making it worthless as a place of intelligent discussion. His ubiquitous posts are not only irrelevant but fawning at the feet of this image of K he has invented and come to worship. What do you hope to gain by encouraging this kind of behavior?

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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 #323
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Paul what do you expect to happen when you try to converse with "one self"? HE is the consummate follower of Krishnamurti. HE doesn't see this, of course. HE has idealized K and what K has pointed out and he, obviously, understands none of it.

HE has come to dominate this site by flooding it with ridiculous posts, thus making it worthless as a place of intelligent discussion. HIS ubiquitous posts are not only irrelevant but fawning at the feet of this image of K he has invented and come to worship. What do you hope to gain by encouraging this kind of behavior?

Just read the above . It is all about falsehood. He does that to get a response from Paul . That is exactly what trolls do. He can't answer Paul's question because he is not responsible. It is interesting that Dan wants me to apologize from this troll! A troll remains as a troll no matter what. The only way a troll can not be a troll is to eliminate the troll by himself which he won't because of his supporters in this small group.. That is why this site is on the decline. They won't allow the troll to say anything on the two other discussions because they know who he is and how he is obsessed with image-making of others. He is an anti-k without a doubt by his false image makings . I feel sorry for the troll. Now I am getting ready to go to a party and talk to real people instead of fictitious ones in here.

.

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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 #324
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Dimmock wrote:
One Self: What matter most to you means what? To most people security is the most important.

If I am insecure security is important to me,if I am hungry food is important to me, if I am lonely then companionship becomes important to me. So what we don't have becomes important to us. If I don't have enough money then money becomes important. So it is all relative and there is no solid answer to a relative question ,is there?

It means: what matters most to you? Are you like most people? Is it security first?

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Sun, 17 Feb 2019 #325
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1357 posts in this forum Offline

Commentaries on Living Series I | 'Self-Esteem'

We all place ourselves at various levels, and we are constantly falling from these heights. It is the falls we are ashamed of. Self-esteem is the cause of our shame, of our fall. It is this self-esteem that must be understood, and not the fall. If there is no pedestal on which you have put yourself, how can there be any fall? Why have you put yourself on a pedestal called self-esteem, human dignity, the ideal, and so on? If you can understand this, then there will be no shame of the past; it will have completely gone. You will be what you are without the pedestal. If the pedestal is not there, the height that makes you look down or look up, then you are what you have always avoided. It is this avoidance of what is, of what you are, that brings about confusion and antagonism, shame and resentment.

You do not have to tell me or another what you are, but be aware of what you are, whatever it is, pleasant or unpleasant; live with it without justifying or resisting it. Live with it without naming it; for the very term is a condemnation or an identification. Live with it without fear, for fear prevents communion, and without communion you cannot live with it. To be in communion is to love. Without love, you cannot wipe out the past; with love, there is no past. Love, and time is not.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #326
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 One Self United States 1093 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Commentaries on Living Series I | 'Self-Esteem'.

What is the point of copy and paste Krishnamurti when you yourself have nothing to say about it? Anybody can do that from jkrishnamurti.org. It is no rocket scientist.

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #327
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

One Self: If I am insecure security is important to me, if I am hungry food is important to me, if I am lonely then companionship becomes important to me. So what we don't have becomes important to us. If I don't have enough money then money becomes important. So it is all relative and there is no solid answer to a relative question, is there?

First of all, answer the question and then find out if it is relative or not. What matters most to you? In coming here, discussing, arguing, what matters most?

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #328
Thumb_pd Paul Dimmock United Kingdom 210 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine: ...what do you expect to happen when you try to converse with "one self"? ... What do you hope to gain by encouraging this kind of behavior?

I am asking him: what matters most to you? But I am putting the same question to you and to anyone else who is interested. In putting this question, exploring it, I shall also find out for myself what matters most to me in my relationship with him and you and anyone else who happens to come along. So it is the question that guides this, not who puts it, not who answers it, not who avoids it. The question remains inviolate, if it is the right question.

This post was last updated by Paul Dimmock Mon, 18 Feb 2019.

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #329
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1357 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
What is the point of copy and paste Krishnamurti when you yourself have nothing to say about it? Anybody can do that from jkrishnamurti.org. It is no rocket scientist.

I'm really sorry that you do not understand
and ignores a possible deeper meaning of this action on my part.

if you can now link your own answer about "trolls" # 331 with the quote from krishnaji # 333 and also that from # 321 with # 326 this question is completely unnecessary.

The river of Love can be pollute on the way so I gave the very pure source.
The rest is up to you.

You are right:
I've nothing to say for myself only to express my love for the Teaching.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Mon, 18 Feb 2019.

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Mon, 18 Feb 2019 #330
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5514 posts in this forum Offline

One Self wrote:
What is the point of copy and paste Krishnamurti when you yourself have nothing to say about it?

You seem to find endless ways to show yourself for being a hypocritical fool. Look at all of the K quotes you put on this forum. And your interpretations, when there are some, are always completely off the mark, confused and often irrational.

One Self wrote:
Anybody can do that from jkrishnamurti.org. It is no rocket scientist.

Is this why you do it so often?

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