Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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K's superstitions


Displaying posts 91 - 120 of 215 in total
Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #91
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5294 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Did Krishnamurti actually have direct experience of certain things that are simply beyond our understanding? Perhaps even raising this question could leave me open to being described as a bit "whacky".

No you are not whacky Sean. In fact you made some good points in your above post. The thing you might realize and were too polite to mention is that Idiot? has already made up his mind about K and is desperately trying to find quotes from K to take out of context to try to prove whatever point he is trying to make. Idiot is not the first person on this forum to come here and try to troll it.

Several people before him have also come in frustration at not having become instantly "enlightened" by what they have read from K. So the next best thing is to try to destroy K to cover their own sense of failure.

With K if you expect to gain something you already missed what he is pointing out. K is pointing to "giving up" everything. Realizing that the self is just a rather meaningless collection of experience and memory. To give up everything is the hardest thing to do for those of us, all of us, who have been conditioned from birth to spend our lives acquiring and accumulating all the time adding to that center that blocks seeing what is.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #92
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1301 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Or whether Christ existed at all. Many biblical scholars doubt he even existed since there is not one shred of contemporary evidence that he did.

That's why I put the name in quotes. The only story I have heard about this is that the 'Christ story' was the work of an 'esoteric school' way back when. If that were true it would make sense to have this message of "love' (in a time of great violence) coming out of the mouth of a charismatic figure, Jesus and portray him as a doer of miracles which would get a lot of people's attention...who knows how really bloody it was back then and a message of love, forgiveness, empathy was what was needed. Of course it's all been perverted now, the message (as much of it that has come down to us) turned into belief and ritual... and jewelry! The most recent that I have seen is of a wealthy woman televangelist wearing diamond studded earrings of 'Christ' nailed up on a cross.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Sun, 01 Jul 2018.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #93
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5294 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
The only story I have heard about this is that the 'Christ story' was the work of an 'esoteric school' way back when.

Even though I just quoted one line thanks for a very interesting and well expressed post. It is appalling what is happening in the name of Christianity today. It may well have begun in the way you suggest and turned into the whacky, rightwing farce it is today.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #94
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1301 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
It may well have begun in the way you suggest and turned into the whacky, rightwing farce it is today.

Maybe it did begin as a teaching set to those times. "Love thy neighbor as thy self", carries for me, basically the same message as "You are the World". It's Compassion for the 'other' but not to be taken as it has been with Christianity, as a moral code, or obligation. But as the result of one's seeing that the 'other' is you and that you are the 'other'...that, as I see it, is true Compassion.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #95
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 428 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Krishnamurti was a man who certainly knew what he was talking about... he seems to have used razor sharp observation to reach a level of understanding that is practically unique. Given this, it would appear very odd that he should be in any way superstisious. Did Krishnamurti actually have direct experience of certain things that are simply beyond our understanding?

That is what Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe has been suggesting. As I have responded, that is possible, but it seems to me way more likely that K was simply superstitious, that his sensitivity extended to things that just weren't there.

Isn't there a certain amount of denial going on here? Mary Z wrote what she wrote. It doesn't square with the image we have of K, so we rationalize that K must have been aware of levels beyond us. The straightforward alternative, that K had and expressed profound insights AND had some silly superstitions is too much for most people here.

If I said that I saw fairies, you'd smile and shake your head. You wouldn't think that idiot has access to profound levels of awareness. But because we're talking about K, you bend over backwards to find an explanation.

Is this not so?

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #96
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 711 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
If I said that I saw fairies, you'd smile and shake your head.

I would say that it's never a good idea to say with any certainty what another person would do. This is actually how I would approach this situation:


  1. I would ask myself how reliable a source idiot? is, based on the evidence I have (forum posts).


  2. Cross referencing - I would try to find out if anyone with no connection to idiot? had also seen fairies. If so, how numerous and reliable are they?


When I was a boy in the 1970s in Scotland it seemed that the Loch Ness Monster might actually exist. There were certainly many eye witness accounts of sightings. However, we can now be reasonably sure that these were erroneous.

Krishnamurti seems to be a reliable source in that with regard to many things, he did seem to possess an understanding based on observation that goes well beyond anything most of us have come across before. Does that mean we have to accept that he also had direct experience of what we might call the supernatural? Clearly the answer is "no". Might we keep an open mind to this? Yes, I think we might.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #97
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 428 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I would say that it's never a good idea to say with any certainty what another person would do.

Well, you are right about that, of course.

We can't deny the supernatural with absolute certainty. We have to keep a little open mind. But it is highly unlikely that fairies exist, spiritual entities, etc. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

I, for one, am not going to start believing in fairies because K saw them.

To me, this is exactly what K warned about with respect to gurus. Maybe the guru has something meaningful to say, but he might also mix in some nonsense. K said you need total freedom to investigate. Part of being free of gurus is to look for yourself and not be swayed because of past revelations.

Anyway, say hello for me if you see Nessy. ;)

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 01 Jul 2018.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #98
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Sir(Idiot),
Once I wanted to see tumbler talking. The person who was keeping the finger on the glass didn't know English at the time.The glass really moved. At least on two occasions it started moving without this person's finger on top & I had to tell , ' Upul, this is moving , keep you finger.

This person Upul & others present had been doing this for years. They said something that moved the glass so fast never came before.

Anyway Upul is a meditation instructor who was teaching many meditation systems then. Answering a question it said meditation is not a system! So Upul who didn't know English & who was telling me to explain what the sentences meant couldn't have been pushing & making sentences.He certainly wouldn't say his meditation is wrong in front of his disciples.

Please note- at least twice this glass started moving on it's own & I had to tell Upul to keep the finger.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #99
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

After Sean said about cross referencing(superb comments, I must say)I decided to go whacky!

Years ago just as I was waking up from the mat(I mostly slept on a mat then)I used to see dimly let human figures in meditative posture on my bed. But only just when I am coming out of my sleep.Only for a fraction of a second.Then I cannot see anymore.Many times. Sometimes I stand up from the mat to find I am almost bumping on to a dimly lit human figure. Only for second. Then I lose sight of that.

Now why would I imagine such a thing? No benefit. No fun.No message. Nothing. No fear, nothing. And why always just as I come out of sleep?

My own analysis is just as we are coming out of sleep the brain is quieter.

I know of people who say they can see spirits. Not for second but see well I believe.There may be others who have some experiences but not risking going whacky as this cannot be proved.(except perhaps by Sean's procedure)

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #100
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

K said discussing with Dr.Bohm that once the brain is in order The Mind which is vast communicates with the brain. But the brain cannot communicate with that mind.Love is of that. That mind is of energy. Mind & body are two separate things he said.

So if such a mind is there is not existence of spiritual beings such as Masters not a possibility? But the question by Idiot is was K whacky to say such things?

What is life? Life itself? Body evolved. That is clear. But what gives life?

Now computer can do anything brain can do. It can see.Through a camera.But no life there. We can see but we have sensation. Computer doesn't have sensation.So what is making it possible for us to have sensation? Is it the Mind? Is there not another factor than the physical body?

So is it the Mind that sees? Are there then being without physical bodies who can see etc?

Well I feel lousy posting this particular post. May be others can analyse better.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #101
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

To me since I was 40-42 Masters are there.When they spoke to me first I was in the bathroom brushing the bathroom floor & had no clothes on.

Now if I was hallucinating it was a rather strange place my mind had chosen to hallucinate about spiritual beings- something people consider as sacred.

He said didn't give me this , give me that etc., for various reasons & then said something very , very, controversial.

He said, 'We give intelligence also. Depending on the person's ability & what he can achieve'.

Once they told me to tell a certain person to resign from his post. I told him that. Ever since then he is saying there are no such things & that I am mad!!

However years later , Masters or no Masters that statement has turned out to be true! This person is in a religious place & an American lady tells me he is womanizing there!!

So at least the statement is accurate.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #102
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Idiot(sir),

I joined the whacky club!!

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #103
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 428 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
I joined the whacky club!!

Yes, but we still love you!

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #104
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Sir(Idiot),
Founder Chairman K Centre told me once that he asked K what this 'otherness' was. K's reply had been ' Ah, you won't understand that. It's the Buddha.'

In K's notebook he says otherness was there etc.,etc.b

In Pululji's biography K says,' Buddha is here can you feel it.'

Once a very, very, erudite monk who knows Buddhist scriptures by heart told me 'The Buddha told us(monks) that he was deathles' He said not only that the Buddha had said he was coming back to liberate his mother!!

So K's statements have support in these scriptures. I am not saying we accept this. But when two giants say something & similar too, we have to explore it properly before making any comment.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #105
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Yes, but we still love you!

Oh, I am glad. I love you too.

Years ago you had remarkable posts. Once I found myself actually wondering, ' Gosh, is this person liberated!!'I remember once my post was not so good & you detected it immediately.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #106
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 428 posts in this forum Offline

I'm just a person like anyone else. I'm not remarkable. I'm not a troll. I'm grateful that we can discuss things together.

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Tue, 03 Jul 2018 #107
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5294 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I'm just a person like anyone else. I'm not remarkable.

Oh wow, what a relief. I thought you were special. Your above two sentences come across as particularly redundant.

Idiot, what are you trying to do to this forum? And why has it become so much about you and what you think and believe? If you think what K pointed out is wrong and a waste of time why do you waste YOUR time here issuing subjective opinions?

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Sun, 08 Jul 2018 #108
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 711 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
I joined the whacky club!!

Hello Jayaraj. I found your "whacky" observations interesting. You are certainly a brave man to have talked about this. Of course, "whackiness" is relative. In many societies stories of possible contact with the supernatural would be seen as quite normal. Perhaps people who spend their lives close to nature are more propense to encounters with "other worlds" or maybe it is all superstition. Who knows?

It seems that in occidental societies, where many of us lived divorced from nature and live almost entirely in the intellect, any talk of other worlds beyond our own is seen as too "whacky" to be acceptable. Perhaps Krishnamurti should have realised this and avoided the subject completely.

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Sun, 08 Jul 2018 #109
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Yes Sean. You are right. I also don't think this type of thing can be discussed openly.

K however talked these things with close friends. But since he was a known teacher it got on to books.

I believe K said in ' One Thousand Moons' that there are various occult societies that look after different people. So if that is correct this factor may be there for some people although they are unaware of it.

K said he talks to the tiger consciousness. Surely -if that is true- tigers are unaware of that. So a spiritual being -if that exist & they can talk to us-may talk to the subconscious mind of some of us.
But we may not be knowing that.You see like sudden a intimation.

Even this thing 'we give intelligence also depending on the person's ability & what the person can achiev' may be possible if the consciousness goes in a stream if there are beings who are mainly of energy. Say they encompass a consciousness before it manifests energizing it? Intelligence is of energy & such energizing may make him able to see things better.

Well lot of suppositions.

However I agree fully with you. This is something that cannot be proved.Best is to avoid the subject.(I wouldn't have opened my mouth but K was getting knocked about over something that may be true but cannot be proved)

Thank you very much.(I have not awakened love & compassion or seen this sacred - which I believe is truth-K talked about although I talked about spiritual beings. I think each has to work for self knowledge)(There are some groups who take meditation instructions from seances!)

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Sun, 08 Jul 2018 #110
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

Thanks again Sean. I really appreciate your post.

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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 #111
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 428 posts in this forum Offline

There seem to be some people for whom K was a kind of avatar and his every word is truth. They would say, yes, question what he says. After all, he said to question for yourself. But it will stand up to the questioning because it is truth.

Secretly they seem to have faith in K, rather than a healthy and investigative doubt. When something comes along, like the apparent superstitions of drawing protection circles or seeing fairies, they would sooner question their own common sense than K.

I am not in that camp. I say question and then re-question what you stopped questioning. K's teachings have had a profound impact on my life. All the more reason to look again and see "the true in the true, the false in the false, the false in the true and the true in the false."

To accept everything K said just because he said it is to completely go against his teaching on spiritual teachers. It is taking him as a guru.

To question K, question others, question yourself, isn't this true freedom? But this requires a certain confidence, a freedom from fear.

"Truth sets you free."

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 13 Jul 2018.

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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 #112
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Wrote United States 647 posts in this forum Offline

I read over 50 comments in this blog . Our problem is over the word "superstition". Here I got from the dictionary:
superstition (?su?p??st???n)
n
1. (Alternative Belief Systems) irrational belief usually founded on ignorance or fear and characterized by obsessive reverence for omens, charms, etc
2. (Alternative Belief Systems) a notion, act or ritual that derives from such belief
3. (Alternative Belief Systems) any irrational belief, esp with regard to the unknown
[C15: from Latin superstiti? dread of the supernatural, from superst?re to stand still by something (as in amazement)]

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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 #113
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Wrote United States 647 posts in this forum Offline

If one likes to know who k was I suggest listening from the horses mouth, Krishnamurti himself. In the commentaries on living he tells you all about it.
I don't see any conflict between what krishnamurti said and what he did in his life.
And once I heard k in his talk said : " Don't listen to anybody saying anything about anybody else."
So I don't believe in anything that anybody says about K.

This post was last updated by Myself Wrote Fri, 13 Jul 2018.

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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 #114
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 711 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
To question K, question others, question yourself, isn't this true freedom? But this requires a certain confidence, a freedom from fear.

There is an implication here that idiot? does the things he lists above while others do not. If one feels that one does certain things that others should do it is probably a good idea to question this feeling.

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Fri, 13 Jul 2018 #115
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1208 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
To accept everything K said just because he said it is to completely go against his teaching on spiritual teachers. It is taking him as a guru.

My dear sir, what is accepting? It is to say something is right without actually seeing it , right?

Now when you say drawing circles for protection or seeing fairies is superstition, have you seeing factually whether such exists in a heightened state of mind?

So when you say these are superstitions have you not stated something without seeing facts? So it is still accepting isn't it? Accepting your personal hunch, your conditioning of the given?

So it is like what communists did right? Some believers said God is there & communists said God is not there. Neither knew facts about it.

So to say we don't know about is to be open to inquiry, not the inverse of belief by saying I don't accept it.

I guess I commented enough on this particular topic.

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Sat, 14 Jul 2018 #116
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Wrote United States 647 posts in this forum Offline

One other thing that k would do when he went into a new room was touch the walls all around him. Is that out of fear ? Of course not . So as walking around a building and drawing a line. There are such a thing as negative energy. Oh by the way it is too late to question k because he has passed away . He had no slogan to be questioned any how.

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Sun, 15 Jul 2018 #117
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 711 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
There seem to be some people for whom K was a kind of avatar and his every word is truth.

idiot ? wrote:
I am not in that camp.

idiot ? wrote:
To question K, question others, question yourself, isn't this true freedom? But this requires a certain confidence, a freedom from fear.

When I read the statements above, I get the feeling of separation. I get the idea that the writer is saying "There are two camps. Some people do this, some do that. My camp is the fearless one".

I may be wrong, but aren't we really all in the same confused camp? Isn't it ego that is constantly separating everything into camps of right and wrong? This is not said in the spirit of trying to prove anybody wrong, but is actually a straight question. Sometimes interchanges like these can go to interesting places if we can possibly leave right and wrong out of it.

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Sun, 15 Jul 2018 #118
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5294 posts in this forum Offline

Goodman B wrote:
One other thing that k would do when he went into a new room was touch the walls all around him. Is that out of fear ?

Really? Have you seen K do that? Don't get sucked in by the likes of Idiot who is on this site to troll it.

I've personally seen K walk into rooms varying from the auditorium at the local high school, Nordoff, to his own living room and many other rooms and I can assure you he never once walked around touching the walls. Don't be so gullible.

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Sun, 15 Jul 2018 #119
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5294 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
When I read the statements above, I get the feeling of separation. I get the idea that the writer is saying "There are two camps. Some people do this, some do that. My camp is the fearless one".

Sean, your above post, from which I have copied just a part, is brilliant and at the same time it offers to bring people together rather than dividing. Well done.

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Sun, 15 Jul 2018 #120
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Wrote United States 647 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
I can assure you he never once walked around touching the walls. Don't be so gullible.

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