Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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K's superstitions


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Fri, 29 Jun 2018 #91
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Castaneda felt no compunction in going into all this in his books about the Yaqui Indian, Don Juan. K. obviously thought it would be a distraction from his message to dwell on any of it. But still in his remarks to others and Mary Z. he let it be known that there was 'something'.

Carlos Castaneda was a liar, a manipulator of humans, a user of his haram of women both sexually and otherwise, a cult leader who got his followers to "erase their past" including all family ties, a con artist who's "non-fiction" books are complete fictions...

In the Mary Z book, K seems to be affirming the existence of good and bad entities like Castaneda described, but he is not endorsing Castaneda. K never endorsed anyone! And if he knew anything about Castaneda he would have condemned him. K condemned Rajneesh who was an angel compared to Castaneda. (No, I'm not a fan of Osho/Rajneesh either.)

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 29 Jun 2018.

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Fri, 29 Jun 2018 #92
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 72 posts in this forum Offline

I find it somewhat troubling how much pseudo-scientific malarky students of Krishnamurti give credence to. Healing with the hands, auras, belief in Masters and invisible dimensions. The list is endless.

Krishnamurti also claims to have seen fairies....

"Krishnaji spent the next day in bed, except for a walk around the lawn in the afternoon. In the evening, I read a review of a book about fairies and asked K when was it that he used to see them. In England, he saw them when they lived at Ashdown Forest; he saw them all the time. Sometimes he was afraid to walk at night, but he couldn’t describe them to me. He had forgotten. Could Nitya see them? He couldn’t remember. Did he see them in India? Probably. Could he see them today if he tried? Maybe. Probably I could see them in the grove at Brockwood. Why then and not later?

“It was after coming from India. Later probably he became more sophisticated and didn’t see them.”

Zimbalist, Mary. In the Presence of Krishnamurti: Mary's Unfinished Book Holistic Education, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

"The 'I' is not contaminated by society; it is the contamination." Krishnamurti

This post was last updated by Ken D Fri, 29 Jun 2018.

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Fri, 29 Jun 2018 #93
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1273 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
but he is not endorsing Castaneda. K never endorsed anyone!

Who said anything about "endorsing"? I said Castaneda wrote about stuff like this, I didn't say whether it was anything other than 'made up'. I don't know. And I don't really care. Whether 'Christ' walked on water, or changed water into wine, or raised the dead, or rose from the dead himself, I don't know. And I don't really care. What was of interest was the message of 'Love'. Same for me with K., the message of 'Love'.

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Fri, 29 Jun 2018 #94
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Ken D wrote:
Krishnamurti also claims to have seen fairies...

Fascinating.

I saw a fairy once.

But it was Disneyland and I'm pretty sure Tinkerbell was really a young woman.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Fri, 29 Jun 2018.

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Fri, 29 Jun 2018 #95
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

<assume that idiot has made no investigation? The implication in what you are saying is that you have investigated radical transformation and that you have undergone radical transformation. Is this what you are saying?

The further implication is that I couldn't possibly be saying the kinds of things I have been saying had I investigated radical transformation. Is that also what you are saying?

Is your heart full of love & compassion? Are you living in ecstasy & bliss?

I have none of those. That is why I am saying I cannot comment on K's actions such as drawing circles.

Even if you say your heart is full of love & compassion affirm these are meaningless actions my answer would be I cannot comment till I do my homework.

Sir , I am sure you have investigated. Years ago I remember reading very intelligent posts by you. But have we walked to the very end of things? For example K says about having insight into energy too that makes everything .I doubt whether all that is clear to us. At least No, not to me.

Sir, is not not knowing that we do not know & taking up a position a belief?

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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 #96
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Are you living in ecstasy & bliss?

Not when I waste too much time on the internet. ;)

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe, I appreciate what you are saying. If I understand correctly, you are saying K's teaching is profound and sacred. So cut him a break. Maybe he had sensitivity to real things and we cannot understand them at our level. (Please correct me if I am putting words in your mouth.)

It is possible. But it is also possible, and to me more likely, that he perceived things that were largely imaginary. Wouldn't we question seeing fairies, for example, in anyone else? So I'm saying let's be fair and question them in K, too.

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Sir, is not not knowing that we do not know & taking up a position a belief?

It is true that we can fool ourselves into believing we know when we really do not. It is true that not knowing is the way to begin real investigation. So thank you. I again appreciate what you are saying.

But!!!

Come on! There are no fairies and lots of other nonsense. If a fairy comes and taps me on the shoulder and says, "Hello, idiot!" Well, I'll rush right back here and let you all know.

Meanwhile, when I see silliness, I won't deny it, just because it happens to come from K.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sat, 30 Jun 2018.

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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 #97
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
If I understand correctly, you are saying K's teaching is profound and sacred. So cut him a break. Maybe he had sensitivity to real things and we cannot understand them at our level

Yes. I think he talked facts. After reading his teachings for several deacades I am of the view that he was among the two greatest humanity produced. Buddha & him.You needn't accept my view.

I am not saying cut him a break. But I am saying unless we make the journey we cannot comment on things that are perceived with increased sensitivity.(due to the inward journey)

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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 #98
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Wouldn't we question seeing fairies, for example, in anyone else?

Did he call some human being a fairy?

If you meant that I think it can be just a figure of speech. Sometimes he just exclaimed, ' Oh, God' etc.

idiot ? wrote:
There are no fairies and lots of other nonsense. If a fairy comes and taps me on the shoulder and says, "Hello, idiot!" Well, I'll rush right back here and let you all know.

Well how to answer that? Supposing I say yes there are, it's no proof to you.Only I play into your hands & you would be saying I am having illusions.

So I think each person has to make such discoveries for him/herself & remain mum!

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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 #99
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
Did he call some human being a fairy?

No! That's an offensive term for a gay male. He didn't say that. And we're not using the word in that way. A fairy is a small, magical female.

See post #92 where Ken quotes Mary Z describing how K saw them in Ashdown Forest.

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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 #100
Thumb_k2 Ken D United States 72 posts in this forum Offline

What's the difference between a fairy and a pixie?

"The 'I' is not contaminated by society; it is the contamination." Krishnamurti

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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 #101
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5119 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
Whether 'Christ' walked on water, or changed water into wine, or raised the dead, or rose from the dead himself, I don't know. And I don't really care. What was of interest was the message of 'Love'. Same for me with K., the message of 'Love'.

Or whether Christ existed at all. Many biblical scholars doubt he even existed since there is not one shred of contemporary evidence that he did. No contemporary writer mentioned him, no census by the Romans mentioned him or his family. It is more likely "Christ" was a figment of the imagination of later writers writing some two or three hundreds years after the supposed life of Christ.

I know this is somewhat off the point, if there is still a point to this thread.

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Sat, 30 Jun 2018 #102
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Sometimes I think the self, idiot, doesn't exist.

Then I realize it's only that the motion sensors in the airport bathroom aren't working.

Krishnamurti, Public Talk 3, Rajghat, India, 22 November 1985

All right, sir. I have got lots of jokes, I can't begin.

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sat, 30 Jun 2018.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #103
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 679 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Was K really kind of whacky when it came to the supernatural? It sure seems so to me.

I have to admit that I have found this thread interesting. I should also say that I am not so fond of the word "whacky". To my mind, it suggests that anyone who strays across the clearly marked boundaries of normality is rather strange to say the least.

I'm sure that almost all of us who come here would say that Krishnamurti was a man who certainly knew what he was talking about. If you listen to him talking about, say anger, you can't help thinking that not only does he know whay he's talking about but he seems to have used razor sharp observation to reach a level of understanding that is practically unique. Given this, it would appear very odd that he should be in any way superstisious. Did Krishnamurti actually have direct experience of certain things that are simply beyond our understanding? Perhaps even raising this question could leave me open to being described as a bit "whacky".

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #104
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5119 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Did Krishnamurti actually have direct experience of certain things that are simply beyond our understanding? Perhaps even raising this question could leave me open to being described as a bit "whacky".

No you are not whacky Sean. In fact you made some good points in your above post. The thing you might realize and were too polite to mention is that Idiot? has already made up his mind about K and is desperately trying to find quotes from K to take out of context to try to prove whatever point he is trying to make. Idiot is not the first person on this forum to come here and try to troll it.

Several people before him have also come in frustration at not having become instantly "enlightened" by what they have read from K. So the next best thing is to try to destroy K to cover their own sense of failure.

With K if you expect to gain something you already missed what he is pointing out. K is pointing to "giving up" everything. Realizing that the self is just a rather meaningless collection of experience and memory. To give up everything is the hardest thing to do for those of us, all of us, who have been conditioned from birth to spend our lives acquiring and accumulating all the time adding to that center that blocks seeing what is.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #105
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1273 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Or whether Christ existed at all. Many biblical scholars doubt he even existed since there is not one shred of contemporary evidence that he did.

That's why I put the name in quotes. The only story I have heard about this is that the 'Christ story' was the work of an 'esoteric school' way back when. If that were true it would make sense to have this message of "love' (in a time of great violence) coming out of the mouth of a charismatic figure, Jesus and portray him as a doer of miracles which would get a lot of people's attention...who knows how really bloody it was back then and a message of love, forgiveness, empathy was what was needed. Of course it's all been perverted now, the message (as much of it that has come down to us) turned into belief and ritual... and jewelry! The most recent that I have seen is of a wealthy woman televangelist wearing diamond studded earrings of 'Christ' nailed up on a cross.

This post was last updated by Dan McDermott Sun, 01 Jul 2018.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #106
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5119 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
The only story I have heard about this is that the 'Christ story' was the work of an 'esoteric school' way back when.

Even though I just quoted one line thanks for a very interesting and well expressed post. It is appalling what is happening in the name of Christianity today. It may well have begun in the way you suggest and turned into the whacky, rightwing farce it is today.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #107
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1273 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
It may well have begun in the way you suggest and turned into the whacky, rightwing farce it is today.

Maybe it did begin as a teaching set to those times. "Love thy neighbor as thy self", carries for me, basically the same message as "You are the World". It's Compassion for the 'other' but not to be taken as it has been with Christianity, as a moral code, or obligation. But as the result of one's seeing that the 'other' is you and that you are the 'other'...that, as I see it, is true Compassion.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #108
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Krishnamurti was a man who certainly knew what he was talking about... he seems to have used razor sharp observation to reach a level of understanding that is practically unique. Given this, it would appear very odd that he should be in any way superstisious. Did Krishnamurti actually have direct experience of certain things that are simply beyond our understanding?

That is what Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe has been suggesting. As I have responded, that is possible, but it seems to me way more likely that K was simply superstitious, that his sensitivity extended to things that just weren't there.

Isn't there a certain amount of denial going on here? Mary Z wrote what she wrote. It doesn't square with the image we have of K, so we rationalize that K must have been aware of levels beyond us. The straightforward alternative, that K had and expressed profound insights AND had some silly superstitions is too much for most people here.

If I said that I saw fairies, you'd smile and shake your head. You wouldn't think that idiot has access to profound levels of awareness. But because we're talking about K, you bend over backwards to find an explanation.

Is this not so?

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #109
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 679 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
If I said that I saw fairies, you'd smile and shake your head.

I would say that it's never a good idea to say with any certainty what another person would do. This is actually how I would approach this situation:


  1. I would ask myself how reliable a source idiot? is, based on the evidence I have (forum posts).


  2. Cross referencing - I would try to find out if anyone with no connection to idiot? had also seen fairies. If so, how numerous and reliable are they?


When I was a boy in the 1970s in Scotland it seemed that the Loch Ness Monster might actually exist. There were certainly many eye witness accounts of sightings. However, we can now be reasonably sure that these were erroneous.

Krishnamurti seems to be a reliable source in that with regard to many things, he did seem to possess an understanding based on observation that goes well beyond anything most of us have come across before. Does that mean we have to accept that he also had direct experience of what we might call the supernatural? Clearly the answer is "no". Might we keep an open mind to this? Yes, I think we might.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #110
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I would say that it's never a good idea to say with any certainty what another person would do.

Well, you are right about that, of course.

We can't deny the supernatural with absolute certainty. We have to keep a little open mind. But it is highly unlikely that fairies exist, spiritual entities, etc. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

I, for one, am not going to start believing in fairies because K saw them.

To me, this is exactly what K warned about with respect to gurus. Maybe the guru has something meaningful to say, but he might also mix in some nonsense. K said you need total freedom to investigate. Part of being free of gurus is to look for yourself and not be swayed because of past revelations.

Anyway, say hello for me if you see Nessy. ;)

This post was last updated by idiot ? Sun, 01 Jul 2018.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #111
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Sir(Idiot),
Once I wanted to see tumbler talking. The person who was keeping the finger on the glass didn't know English at the time.The glass really moved. At least on two occasions it started moving without this person's finger on top & I had to tell , ' Upul, this is moving , keep you finger.

This person Upul & others present had been doing this for years. They said something that moved the glass so fast never came before.

Anyway Upul is a meditation instructor who was teaching many meditation systems then. Answering a question it said meditation is not a system! So Upul who didn't know English & who was telling me to explain what the sentences meant couldn't have been pushing & making sentences.He certainly wouldn't say his meditation is wrong in front of his disciples.

Please note- at least twice this glass started moving on it's own & I had to tell Upul to keep the finger.

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #112
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

After Sean said about cross referencing(superb comments, I must say)I decided to go whacky!

Years ago just as I was waking up from the mat(I mostly slept on a mat then)I used to see dimly let human figures in meditative posture on my bed. But only just when I am coming out of my sleep.Only for a fraction of a second.Then I cannot see anymore.Many times. Sometimes I stand up from the mat to find I am almost bumping on to a dimly lit human figure. Only for second. Then I lose sight of that.

Now why would I imagine such a thing? No benefit. No fun.No message. Nothing. No fear, nothing. And why always just as I come out of sleep?

My own analysis is just as we are coming out of sleep the brain is quieter.

I know of people who say they can see spirits. Not for second but see well I believe.There may be others who have some experiences but not risking going whacky as this cannot be proved.(except perhaps by Sean's procedure)

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Sun, 01 Jul 2018 #113
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

K said discussing with Dr.Bohm that once the brain is in order The Mind which is vast communicates with the brain. But the brain cannot communicate with that mind.Love is of that. That mind is of energy. Mind & body are two separate things he said.

So if such a mind is there is not existence of spiritual beings such as Masters not a possibility? But the question by Idiot is was K whacky to say such things?

What is life? Life itself? Body evolved. That is clear. But what gives life?

Now computer can do anything brain can do. It can see.Through a camera.But no life there. We can see but we have sensation. Computer doesn't have sensation.So what is making it possible for us to have sensation? Is it the Mind? Is there not another factor than the physical body?

So is it the Mind that sees? Are there then being without physical bodies who can see etc?

Well I feel lousy posting this particular post. May be others can analyse better.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #114
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

To me since I was 40-42 Masters are there.When they spoke to me first I was in the bathroom brushing the bathroom floor & had no clothes on.

Now if I was hallucinating it was a rather strange place my mind had chosen to hallucinate about spiritual beings- something people consider as sacred.

He said didn't give me this , give me that etc., for various reasons & then said something very , very, controversial.

He said, 'We give intelligence also. Depending on the person's ability & what he can achieve'.

Once they told me to tell a certain person to resign from his post. I told him that. Ever since then he is saying there are no such things & that I am mad!!

However years later , Masters or no Masters that statement has turned out to be true! This person is in a religious place & an American lady tells me he is womanizing there!!

So at least the statement is accurate.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #115
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Idiot(sir),

I joined the whacky club!!

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #116
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
I joined the whacky club!!

Yes, but we still love you!

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #117
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

Sir(Idiot),
Founder Chairman K Centre told me once that he asked K what this 'otherness' was. K's reply had been ' Ah, you won't understand that. It's the Buddha.'

In K's notebook he says otherness was there etc.,etc.b

In Pululji's biography K says,' Buddha is here can you feel it.'

Once a very, very, erudite monk who knows Buddhist scriptures by heart told me 'The Buddha told us(monks) that he was deathles' He said not only that the Buddha had said he was coming back to liberate his mother!!

So K's statements have support in these scriptures. I am not saying we accept this. But when two giants say something & similar too, we have to explore it properly before making any comment.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #118
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1191 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Yes, but we still love you!

Oh, I am glad. I love you too.

Years ago you had remarkable posts. Once I found myself actually wondering, ' Gosh, is this person liberated!!'I remember once my post was not so good & you detected it immediately.

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Mon, 02 Jul 2018 #119
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 350 posts in this forum Offline

I'm just a person like anyone else. I'm not remarkable. I'm not a troll. I'm grateful that we can discuss things together.

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Tue, 03 Jul 2018 #120
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5119 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
I'm just a person like anyone else. I'm not remarkable.

Oh wow, what a relief. I thought you were special. Your above two sentences come across as particularly redundant.

Idiot, what are you trying to do to this forum? And why has it become so much about you and what you think and believe? If you think what K pointed out is wrong and a waste of time why do you waste YOUR time here issuing subjective opinions?

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