Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Insight and the Acceptance of Authority

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Wed, 23 May 2018 #1
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5196 posts in this forum Offline

The other day I was asked by a poster on this forum if I really understood what K was saying, we were discussing a specific topic, or whether I just accepted K's authority on the matter. This question has appeared many times on this website and it is a valid question. One each of us should ask ourselves.

I would like to briefly talk of insight and maybe even clear up what it means to have an insight.

When I was seven years old or so my best friend and next door neighbor told me that there was no Santa Claus. I can't really remember what I felt at the time but I don't remember being particularly upset. What I do remember was that when I realized that Santa was a fairy tale I also suddenly realized that this also applied to the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, witches, goblins and the rest. For me the big change was in my mind this "insight", if I may call it that, also included everything I had been told about Jesus Christ. For me it all ended on one single day. Not only the fairy tales but the center, the basis, the namesake, of the dominant religion of my culture. I believe this was an insight.

In later years, like most people, I was struggling with mathematics. I liked Trigonometry especially because of it's practical applications. But like most people I would "plug and chug" putting in values for sines, cosines, tangents and all the rest from the table in the back of the text book. It was all mysterious to me until one day I noticed that the sin of 30 degrees is .5000. Then it hit me that in a 30-60 right triangle the side opposite the 30 degree angle is half the length of the hypotenuse. And conversely the cosine of 60 degress is .5000 All of a sudden everything opened up for me about trig and what the tables were and that there was an absolute relationship between sides and angles in a right triangle. I suddenly understood more about trig than I need to write here. I think I had a real insight about trigonometry.

Then there is Krishnamurti. I'll pick one example: The observer is the observed We have all heard that. What does it mean? I, the observer, am a collection of thoughts; beliefs, ideas, experiences, concepts, insults compliments---memory. What one observes is filtered through all of this, compared and measured by all of this detritus in our brains so what comes out is a modified form of what we already know. The new is almost immediately converted to the old, the past, the known. Only when thought is not active, where there is attention which can only happen when the brain is silent, do we see something as it is and not as we think it is after being filtered through our thought processes.

Does it take an insight to see this? Maybe. I don't know but I think it was an insight for me after several years of reading and hearing this term used. Anybody else want to add to this?

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 13 Jun 2018.

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Wed, 23 May 2018 #2
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5196 posts in this forum Offline

If there is any point to the above post it is that we all have insights about something(s) in our lives. It's not abnormal. Don't be afraid to allow yourself to have one about what K has pointed out. It's OK to do that.

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Thu, 24 May 2018 #3
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 361 posts in this forum Offline

Pretty much everyone who comes here has had some understanding of what K said or they wouldn't be here. For many, those understandings have been quite profound and life changing.

But it is one thing to have an epiphany about sines and cosines and another to be a mathematician.

Most of us look askance when someone says, "K would say..." It is presumptuous. Sure, people can and do have some understanding of what K said. But they can also overlook other things he said. They can, and usually do, have a limited understanding. There is further insight. So that's why we encourage people to express their own understandings and never try to speak for K, yes?

K's journals describe a kind of living, sensing, feeling that is very different than the conflicted individual self in conflict with other conflicted individual selves that most of us experience. While we may have some insight, do we really live anything like what is described in the journals?

And most importantly, do we treat people with kindness, caring, love? You can have all the insight in the world and it is utterly worthless if you treat people cruelly.

Unfortunately, that is what happens again and again right here in this forum. People, who supposedly have insight into K, fall into conflict. Relationship degenerates into attack and counter attack. If anything demonstrates the pitfalls of partial understanding, it is this forum right here!

So beyond aha!, living the teachings is vital. And that means meditation. That means love. That means not just awareness, but also transformation.

Is this not so?

This post was last updated by idiot ? Thu, 24 May 2018.

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Fri, 25 May 2018 #4
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5196 posts in this forum Offline

idiot, your post seems like a bunch of solutions in search of problems. I don't really see any significant connection between what I wrote and your response.

It appears to me that you have not understood the point I was trying to make. Maybe that was my fault because I wasn't clear enough.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 25 May 2018.

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Fri, 25 May 2018 #5
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 512 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
K's journals describe a kind of living, sensing, feeling that is very different than the conflicted individual self in conflict with other conflicted individual selves that most of us experience. While we may have some insight, do we really live anything like what is described in the journals?

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Fri, 25 May 2018 #6
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 512 posts in this forum Offline

That is something to consider but since one has no idea or ideal it is hard to say if one lives up to the teachings. We are attached, specially attached to our believe (what we say or write),that much we know(which shows in internet forums). Is it not the ego who is attached? What is the nature of attachment? Is attachment illusion ? If ego is illusion then attachment must be illusion.

This post was last updated by Myself Only Fri, 25 May 2018.

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Sun, 27 May 2018 #7
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 689 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
The new is almost immediately converted to the old, the past, the known. Only when thought is not active, where there is attention which can only happen when the brain is silent, do we see something as it is and not as we think it is after being filtered through our thought processes.

Hello Jack and all. This seems to hit the nail on the head. Jack, you wrote in a post a while back that Krishnamurti seemed to have found a way of constantly discovering things as if they were new. I know you saw K speak, something I never did, but this quality of freshness and newness certainly comes across in his writings, audios and video talks. I wonder if we could perhaps have this quality a bit more on this forum. Would that be possible?

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Sun, 27 May 2018 #8
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 689 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
Unfortunately, that is what happens again and again right here in this forum. People, who supposedly have insight into K, fall into conflict. Relationship degenerates into attack and counter attack. If anything demonstrates the pitfalls of partial understanding, it is this forum right here!

Hello idiot?. Well, I suppose we all have a responsibility to ensure that this does not happen. Maybe we could start afresh and not worry too much about what has gone on in the past here. Or is that just unrealistic?

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Thu, 07 Jun 2018 #9
Thumb_1507053_1_ Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe Sri Lanka 1196 posts in this forum Offline

Observer is the observed is a very important fact K pointed out. The image we make of another & think different from us is actually our creation, our own projection. Therefore us. So that another is different psychologically is an illusion we human beings have.To see this careful observation is required.

It is possible for people to have insight. Insight is -to my understanding- seeing the actual state of something directly.This happens in an undivided state of attention. When divided it is knowledge which is the 'me'observing. Thus a mere interpretation of the past which is what we call an image is formulated.
We can have insight.Otherwise why did K talk at all. However whether a human being is talking through insight or not is very difficult for another to say. Specially when the answers are accurate. However when a person is making blatantly irrational statements it is possible to say the person is not having insight.
There were even people in the world who said K was mad!

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Mon, 11 Jun 2018 #10
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 512 posts in this forum Offline

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote:
It is possible for people to have insight. Insight is -to my understanding- seeing the actual state of something directly.

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Mon, 11 Jun 2018 #11
Thumb_screenshot_20180710-010635 Myself Only United States 512 posts in this forum Offline

The word In-sight means having sight into something . What prevents insight is more important to learn about than insight.
Thought prevents seeing. Thought in fact is the cause of all problems. So the more one understands the ways of one's thought and feelings the more one is free to see,to learn and so on.

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Wed, 13 Jun 2018 #12
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5196 posts in this forum Offline

This thread has gone off the rails. I apologize. It has become gibberish. Or maybe it was gibberish to begin with. Anyway I don't think it's going to improve.

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