Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The beauty of it.


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Tue, 27 Jun 2017 #61
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3155 posts in this forum Offline

Good point Rich. I never thought of the 'teaching' like that before. In a way K is describing how the human mind works and telling us to not accept his authority, but to investigate for ourselves....to verify for ourselves if what he says is true or not. In this sense he's different than a spiritual teacher or guru who tells you how to live or what to think. Interesting...there's really no authority in K. We elevate K to the status of teacher or authority because we want to be told how to live....we feel lost and want someone to show us the way.

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 27 Jun 2017.

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Tue, 27 Jun 2017 #62
Thumb_avatar idiot ? United States 523 posts in this forum Offline

Okay, which is simple and which is complicated:

1) Any spiritual teacher can be problematic.

2) Spiritual teachers are problematic, except Krishnamurti, because he just describes reality and asks you to verify it, even though lots of other teachers say they describe reality and ask you to verify it. K is not really an authority even though we sometimes take him that way.

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Tue, 27 Jun 2017 #63
Thumb_donna_and_jim_fb_bw Tom Paine United States 3155 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
2) Spiritual teachers are problematic, except Krishnamurti, because he just describes reality and asks you to verify it, even though lots of other teachers say they describe reality and ask you to verify it. K is not really an authority even though we sometimes take him that way.

The problem, if there is any, is when we’re seeking an authority to tell us how to live or what to think(isn't that what most gurus do?)....making K into an authority. If we just listen to what he says out of interest, where's the problem?

Let it Be

This post was last updated by Tom Paine Tue, 27 Jun 2017.

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Tue, 27 Jun 2017 #64
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 328 posts in this forum Offline

idiot ? wrote:
2) Spiritual teachers are problematic, except Krishnamurti, because he just describes reality and asks you to verify it, even though lots of other teachers say they describe reality and ask you to verify it. K is not really an authority even though we sometimes take him that way.

Exactly. So is the problem the teacher, the speaker ? Or the listener ? Someone, anyone, your neigbour your girlfriend or a so called great guru say, pointed to something about life, about our confusion, or compassion etc .... Are we gone start to worship him or her and become a follower of everthing that will be said ? So we are creating the guru, the great wise man. But the message, if there was one, is lost. What is essential is the thing that is pointed out, which can be valid or not. Isn't it ?

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Tue, 27 Jun 2017.

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Tue, 27 Jun 2017 #65
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 328 posts in this forum Offline

There seems to be a dilemna about K. yes. He have a background that we can hardly imagine. He was in all this from childhood. Though, he says: I am not your guru. You can make a guru out of me, but I am not. So, as Idiot? says: we must be clear about if we merely accept or see by ouselves, what he ( or anyone ) say or pointed out. Generaly, the followers of a guru just accept what is said without questioning. They worship the man or the woman , and conform to the autority of the guru. K. is different in this, that he denied being an autority. He say: follow the truth, not me.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Wed, 28 Jun 2017.

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Wed, 28 Jun 2017 #66
Thumb_stringio richard head United States 332 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Rich Nolet wrote:
is the problem the teacher, the speaker ? Or the listener ?

The problem of course is the voices between the ears. We accept and reject authority "out there" but we rely on the authority of our own thinking, to decide. There, lies the problem.

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Wed, 28 Jun 2017 #67
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1357 posts in this forum Offline

Rich Nolet wrote:
So is the problem the teacher, the speaker ? Or the listener ?

Hi Rich,

Assuming it is true is this laying in the teaching, in the speaker or in the listener ?
Or is it that truth stands on its own and some is describing it and someone can find it.

Do we need any of them to find truth ??

QOTD: Ojai, California | 3rd Public Talk 28th May, 1944

Is it not very important that one must understand oneself above everything else?
For if we do not understand ourselves we shall not understand anything else for the root of understanding lies in ourselves. In understanding myself, I shall understand my relationship with another, with the world; for in me, as in each one, is the whole; I am the result of the whole, of the past. This concern to understand oneself may appear superficially to be egocentric, selfish, but if you consider it you will see that what each one of us is, the world, the State, society is; and to bring a vital change in the environment, which is essential, each one must begin with himself. In understanding himself and so transforming himself, he will inevitably bring about the necessary and vital change in the State, in the environment. The recognition and understanding of this fact will bring a revolution in our thinking-feeling.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Wed, 28 Jun 2017 #68
Thumb_nolet Rich Nolet Canada 328 posts in this forum Offline

The quote is pointing to something that maybe we haven't seen before. I don't see anything wrong with that. Though, it bring us back to understand ourselves. So , the truth in what is being said is an indication, an awakening of something that , in my case, was hidden. From there, I am on my own, if I can say it that way.

This post was last updated by Rich Nolet Wed, 28 Jun 2017.

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