Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #1
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

alt text

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Fri, 02 Jan 2015.

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #2
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

"The life of the average person seems, at the end, utterly meaningless, without significance . . . "

and?

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #3
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Good question, Paul. I wonder if it has an answer, or should have an answer. Because if one is seeking significance or looking for meaning, he will find only what he has defined and limited.

max

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #4
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavil Davidov quoted K:

"The life of the average person seems, at the end, utterly meaningless, without significance . . . "

Then Paul asked:

and?

Because of the bit I've highlighted, perchance? It means there are others, outside of that ordinary 'average'. That, I would suggest, is the significance not readily spotted by the average..

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #5
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
Because if one is seeking significance or looking for meaning, he will find only what he has defined and limited.

That's the point.

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #6
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

John Perkins wrote:
Because of the bit I've highlighted, perchance? It means there are others, outside of that ordinary 'average'. That, I would suggest, is the significance not readily spotted by the average..

I don't know. I've never met an "average person."

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #7
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavil Davidov wrote:
I don't know. I've never met an "average person."

Ha ha! There's no getting past the intellect for the intellect.

I'm sure K would question the accuracy of your statement here, Paul. If he felt inclined to bother.

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #8
Thumb_stringio randall merryman United States 3832 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
Because if one is seeking significance or looking for meaning, he will find only what he has defined and limited.

Yay Max, good point. Questions and answers (knowledge) is the 'defined and limited". No significance/meaning down that well worn path of knowledge.

Stuff happens

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #9
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

randall merryman wrote:
Yay Max, good point. Questions and answers (knowledge) is the 'defined and limited". No significance/meaning down that well worn path of knowledge.

This is simply to go round and round in precisely that thing you suppose yourself to be escaping. The ego is a past master at it. Ie. delusion.

So I'll ask you again: what quite might be the point of the archived 70 year teaching that K was so hugely concerned to protect and preserve even after his passing?

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

This post was last updated by John Perkins (account deleted) Fri, 02 Jan 2015.

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #10
Thumb_stringio Katy Alias United Kingdom 378 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavil Davidov wrote:
I've never met an "average person."

Yes, 'to be is to be perceived'...I don't think of people in terms of 'averageness' either.

John Perkins wrote:
I'm sure K would question the accuracy of your statement here, Paul. If he felt inclined to bother.

It is true that people experience 'existential angst' - with or without reading K.

What is meant by a 'meaningful' and/or 'significant' life - and/or person, even ? Can we look at this question without reference to K or other writers?

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #11
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Pavil Davidov wrote:
and?

Hi paul...I m just going to post some images of quotes which appeal me...for entertainment purpose.

I don't know

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #12
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Pavil Davidov wrote:
and?

...when I look back or look at now, it's like I've lived mostly in fear, anxiety...like a machine with patterned actions...that's it.

I don't know

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #13
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

'The average person wastes his life'.

K said it, I think average person's only contribution is, to provide continuity to human race through reproduction.

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Fri, 02 Jan 2015.

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #14
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

John Perkins wrote:
I'm sure K would question the accuracy of your statement here, Paul. If he felt inclined to bother.

I'm sure he wouldn't bother to justify a stupid choice of words, John.

John Perkins wrote:
It means there are others, outside of that ordinary 'average'.

Yes. you lift yourself above your perceived 'average person.' Like Katy, I do not believe in any 'average.' But please describe him/her so we have a better understanding.

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #15
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
...when I look back or look at now, it's like I've lived mostly in fear, anxiety...like a machine with patterned actions...that's it.

Oh dear. Could a machine make such a judgement?

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #16
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
I think average person's only contribution is, to provide continuity to human race through reproduction.

Oh, how about the average tree or the average earthworm - did they do better?

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #17
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

alt text

I don't know

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Fri, 02 Jan 2015 #18
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

John Perkins wrote:
I'm sure K would question the accuracy of your statement here, Paul. If he felt inclined to bother.

Pavil Davidov responded:
I'm sure he wouldn't bother to justify a stupid choice of words, John.

You've lost me I'm afraid. No matter, I'm easily thrown.

John Perkins wrote:
It [necessarily] means there are others, outside of that ordinary 'average'.

Pavil Davidov responded:
Yes. you lift yourself above your perceived 'average person.'

Well the choice of the word 'above' is your own. Intellect naturally thinks hierarchically.

Like Katy, I do not believe in any 'average.'

It's also predisposed to group.

It may be worth you noting that it was K who introduced the 'average person' here not I. There was a context to it of course but nevertheless...

But please describe him/her so we have a better understanding.

What for, Paul? If K carries no credibility for you how might I? You will see what you see.

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #19
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

John Perkins wrote:
Well the choice of the word 'above' is your own. Intellect naturally thinks hierarchically.

Right, you don't consider yourself "above" the average as that would be hierarchical, so instead, you consider yourself "outside" the average. How . . . elegant!

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #20
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

John Perkins wrote:
It may be worth you noting that it was K who introduced the 'average person' here not I.

Passing the buck as usual. Blame K, whose not here to introduce anything. We cannot ask K what he meant by "the average person" but as you used the phrase we can ask what you mean by it and why you consider yourself above . . . sorry, "outside" that average.

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

This post was last updated by Pavil Davidov (account deleted) Sat, 03 Jan 2015.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #21
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

John Perkins wrote:
What for, Paul? If K carries no credibility for you how might I? You will see what you see.

We'll have to start calling you 'Wriggling Perkins.'

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #22
Thumb_stringio mike christani United States 2234 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavil Davidov wrote:
dhirendra singh wrote:
I think average person's only contribution is, to provide continuity to human race through reproduction.

Oh, how about the average tree or the average earthworm - did they do better?

I've met some extraordinary trees. I think most average people only hold up as such from a distance, though many probably shouldn't procreate.

This post was last updated by mike christani (account deleted) Sat, 03 Jan 2015.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #23
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

John Perkins wrote:
It may be worth you noting that it was K who introduced the 'average person' here not I.

Pavil Davidov responded:
Passing the buck as usual. Blame K, whose not here to introduce anything. We cannot ask K what he meant by "the average person" but as you used the phrase we can ask what you mean by it...

One would have thought it might be obvious how the idea of an 'average person' is applicable given that K himself - for one - patently wasn't. And the fact of his insistence that his own essential make-up was no different than any other human being's should (i) lend us hope, and (ii) allow that there must always be extant others that see also, even if (of course) not as clearly as he did. If there were not then the entire world must be as blind as you yourself, Paul D.

...and why you consider yourself above . . . sorry, "outside" that average.

Because I'm one such, of course. How else? There are others here too. I've more or less given up naming them on account it evidently in no way helps you to see them; anymore than it helps you to see per se. There are none so blind - nor will there ever be - as those who will not see.

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #24
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

So, what I see John, is that you hold the opinion that I and most others here on Knet are "average people" while you and some you get along with are "outside" the average, in a select grouping in which you also include K.

But you still haven't told us what an "average person" means to you.

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #25
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

By the way, John, do stop sending me hate mail via the private messaging service.

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #26
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavil Davidov wrote:
By the way, John, do stop sending me hate mail via the private messaging service.

Here, complete and verbatim, is what you are calling (for your ends; whatever they may be) 'hate mail'.... :

"Do try to stop burning, Paul. It's not doing you or doubtless anybody around you any good.... and it's blocking the forum. You've demonstrated an incapacity to dialogue but there's no need for you to go the whole other way."

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #27
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pavil Davidov wrote:
So, what I see John, is that you hold the opinion that I and most others here on Knet are "average people" while you and some you get along with are "outside" the average, in a select grouping in which you also include K.

Why are you obsessing about me and being covertly divisive, Paul? In fact why do I interest you at all given that you think I'm wrong about everything?

But you still haven't told us what an "average person" means to you.

It means the same as it means to K, who was the one who said it and with whom, regarding the matter, I happen to agree and you disagree. As I've said, if you're convinced that K simply made a linguistic error as you seem to think, then why are you unhappy with that, your own, decision?

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #28
Thumb_stringio steve sds United States 746 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

In regards to Pauls number 25 which was: "By the way, John, do stop sending me hate mail via the private messaging service."

Shame on you for sinking to these low depths, both in saying this to John, which could have been done privately or not at all, and for stating the same sort of thing in regards to my personal email i sent you awhile ago. Once again Paul, you have shown your true colors and it aint pretty. I suggest you look at yourself and what you are doing here. Sharing this kind of stuff publically has a motive and agenda and you seem blind to what you are doing. If Jean for instance posted something like this, you would probably be all after him and suggest what he is doing is wrong. Something to consider.

p.s. - Please dont run and escape to the I am defending John agenda, that is too silly and immature. Thank you.

This post was last updated by steve sds (account deleted) Sat, 03 Jan 2015.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #29
Thumb_stringio Falco Peregrinus Nepal 256 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

As Martin B points out indirectly, an average person is one whose only mode of (or motive in) relationship to this world is in experiencing and using it.

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Sat, 03 Jan 2015 #30
Thumb_stringio John Perkins United Kingdom 1094 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Falco Peregrinus wrote:
As Martin B points out indirectly, an average person is one whose only mode of (or motive in) relationship to this world is in experiencing and using it.

Sounds not far off the mark I'd say, Falco. 'Martin B' being, please? I've got a friend called Martin Blamire but I don't think it will be him... :-)

Dialogue mirrors relationship; who can't, has none.

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