Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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From Yesterday's Quote of the Day...


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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #1
Thumb_basquiat-boom-for-real-feature-001 Katy Alias United Kingdom 347 posts in this forum Offline

"When this positive, aggressive wanting or not wanting is put an end to, there is the awareness of fear, of death, of nothingness. But if thought can go above and beyond this fear then there is ultimate reality". Krishnamurti

Has anyone reading/writing here surpassed this fear ? And/or can you envisage doing so?

What is meant by 'ultimate reality' ? Or is this really something inarticulable ?

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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #2
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

You can expect yes from Randal.

I don't know

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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #3
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Katy Alias 2 wrote:
But if thought can go above and beyond this fear then there is ultimate reality".

Is it thought that will see fear and understand fear so that we can "go above and beyond"? I doubt that it is, because the evaluation, judgment, doubt and choice involved in the process of thinking and thought is fear itself.

Thought is the evaluation and judgment of memory. Thought can only modify memory or the old so that, carried forward, there is only a "modified continuity," in Krishnamurti's words. Even more to the point, thinking and thought have nothing to do with an ultimate reality. It is only awareness that is capable of the timeless -- which is the present, which is the ultimate reality. Awareness is not thought.

max

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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #4
Thumb_stringio anish leh United States 474 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
Awareness is not thought.

:D

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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #5
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Max: Awareness is not thought.

I think katy know this.

I don't know

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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #6
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Arivalagan S wrote:
But when Max says it, it takes on another meaning.

One of the issues with using the known/information/knowledge/belief the way it is being used, is that when anybody says "it" it takes on a different interpretation.

This post was last updated by randal patrick (account deleted) Wed, 03 Jul 2013.

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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #7
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
Awareness is not thought.

So you are saying "what should be" (awareness) is not "what is" (thought)? Nice.

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Wed, 03 Jul 2013 #8
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
It is only awareness that is capable of the timeless

Who told you that? Maybe it goes like this......

only timeless/thoughtless is capeable of awareness? We can put pieces together any way we like to make our dolly (belief) look as good and well dresses as we want!

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Thu, 04 Jul 2013 #9
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Arivalagan S wrote:
Do you say there is an entity 'using' thought, sir? Surely the entity that uses knowledge IS knowledge? Obviously there is a body/mind but has no identity of its own besides the known.

Sounds more like a Max'ism.

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Thu, 04 Jul 2013 #10
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Arivalagan S wrote:
But when Max says "awareness is not thought," one hears the feel of the perfume of it: means that thought is 'mere' existence while awareness is 'ultimate reality' (or else something in between).

That's some perfume. Felt and heard.

The only thing in between the real and the unreal, is more unreal

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Thu, 04 Jul 2013 #11
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Arivalagan S wrote:
Good neologism Randal.

My grand father used to tell me I was a real fart smeller, er I think smart feller is what he meant though.

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Thu, 04 Jul 2013 #12
Thumb_2564 Satya Prakash India 528 posts in this forum Offline

Katy Alias 2 wrote:
...it seems that fear of the loss of thought (memory) is what obstructs awareness - the capacity to 'be in the present'...

If the mind is not occupied by thoughts that give a sense of security/continuity/certainity in daily living, then it would feel empty and not in control. It runs away in fear from this state of emptiness by producing thoughts of future security and better times ahead. I feel thoughts are produced to alleviate fear and are not the cause of it, Katy.

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Thu, 04 Jul 2013 #13
Thumb_basquiat-boom-for-real-feature-001 Katy Alias United Kingdom 347 posts in this forum Offline

Satya Prakash wrote:
I feel thoughts are produced to alleviate fear and are not the cause of it, Katy.

Yes, Satya, this 'rings true'. Thanks. I suppose it goes without saying that most people are not aware of how much this is a feature of everyday life.

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Thu, 04 Jul 2013 #14
Thumb_stringio G M a Norway 89 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Satya Prakash wrote:
I feel thoughts are produced to alleviate fear and are not the cause of it

Satya, came across this recently:

S.K.: Thought is born of fear.

K: Fear is the product of thought, not the other way round.

(By the way, S K is Sudhir Kakkar)

This post was last updated by G M a (account deleted) Thu, 04 Jul 2013.

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Thu, 04 Jul 2013 #15
Thumb_2564 Satya Prakash India 528 posts in this forum Offline

G M a wrote:
S.K.: Thought is born of fear.
K: Fear is the product of thought, not the other way round.

What is your take on the relationship between inner void, fear and thought, G M?

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