Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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outsiders


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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #1
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

alt text

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #2
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Does this mean that they are outside our modern life style,and yet organised and orderly,much to our discomfiture ?

nothing

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #3
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks Ravi...

This photograph evoked for me that which 'we' have lost...

There isn't much that is 'natural', 'beautiful', 'harmonious', 'innocent', 'spontaneous' or 'free' about living in accordance with the expectations of this 'concrete jungle' here in London - however long the life expectancy might be.

Also:
Indigenous peoples are increasingly faced with threats to their sovereignty, environment, and access to natural resources. Examples of this can be the deforestation of tropical rainforests where many native tribe's subsistence lifestyles are threatened. Assimilative colonial policies resulted in ongoing issues related to aboriginal child protection.

Regards, Katy

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #4
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Is that your guess? I haven't a clue as to what Ravi thinks this photo has to do with the thread title. Maybe he'll tell us.

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #5
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
Is that your guess? I haven't a clue as to what Ravi thinks this photo has to do with the thread title. Maybe he'll tell us.

No, it is just what the photographed evoked (for me) Lidlo...I do not know what Ravi wants to say about it - perhaps, nothing?

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #6
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

It just isn't clear how the photo relates to the thread title. Are these kids outsiders because they're literally outside? Obviously, they're all insiders to each other, so what is Ravi trying to say?

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #7
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy 9 wrote:
There isn't much that is 'natural', 'beautiful', 'harmonious', 'innocent', 'spontaneous' or 'free' about living in accordance with the expectations of this 'concrete jungle' here in London - however long the life expectancy might be.

But what do the words you've quoted have to do with the insider/outsider issue? If you're saying you feel like an outsider because your society doesn't share your values, you're just a misplaced insider. It's only when you value adaptability above all that you're an outsider, and it's only then that you can successfully pretend to be an insider.

The difference between insider and outsider is that the outsider adapts to what-is and the insider conforms to what-should-be. An outsider can appear to be an insider, and an insider who can't keep up appearances is out.

This post was last updated by lidlo lady (account deleted) Sat, 14 Apr 2012.

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #8
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Peng Shu Tse wrote:
I used to accept the phrase, "children are the future" as a cardinal truth. Now I see it as an avoidance of us, acting correctly, in the present. Sentiment serves avoidance.

But literally, it's true, so why read anything more into it?

To believe we can act correctly in the present we must have an idea of what "correct" is, and that's where we go wrong.

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #9
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Pray tell, Ravi, how does that stupid photo pertain to your title,
"outsiders"?

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #10
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
But what do the words you've quoted have to do with the insider/outsider issue?

I see that, Lidlo, there were, perhaps, too many lines to read between what led me to observe (in response to this photograph) that which 'we' have lost i.e. a huge part of what seems to find us all trying to live in a way according to what should be - as you have rightly pointed out - instead of in accordance to 'what is'.

(I did not see an instant link between the photograph and the title so I found a sort of 'link' in writing part of what it evoked for me which might have been relevant).

lidlo lady wrote:
It's only when you value adaptability above all that you're an outsider, and it's only then that you can successfully pretend to be an insider.

I see your point.Thanks.

I have found that this property of adaptability to be intelligence in action and the 'outsider element' in/of me has required self-effacement/invisibility on my part - to think on my feet - and an amount of subversion if you like, too, in my work with/for others...

You are right, too, about whether a person is regarded as an 'insider' or 'outsider' is contingent/relative.

Another person pointed out to me that outsiders either try to make themselves invisible (which is not a happy position) or they distinguish themselves. What do you think, if anything, about this?

I truly don't know how a person can 'pretend' to be an 'insider', successfully, at the end of the day...I wonder how many people are doing this?

I see that part of it might reside in having the confidence to shut out, bat away and/or 'un-see' the projections of others.

Regards, Katy

This post was last updated by Katy 9 (account deleted) Sun, 15 Apr 2012.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #11
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
An outsider can appear to be an insider, and an insider who can't keep up appearances is out.

Yes, Lidlo, seeing this element...

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #12
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy 9 wrote:
Another person pointed out to me that outsiders either try to make themselves invisible (which is not a happy position) or they distinguish themselves. What do you think, if anything, about this?

Look at it this way: an outsider can appear to be whatever he/she needs to be in the moment - including invisible - and an insider can only stand his/her ground.

The insider says that freedom is what-should-be without knowing anything about freedom, and the outsider is free to appear to be whatever doesn't upset the insider.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #13
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
Pray tell, Ravi, how does that stupid photo pertain to your title,
"outsiders"?

:) What is stupid, title or photo?Photo look very artistic, I can't find any extra stupidity in this photo.

I don't know

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #14
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
Look at it this way: an outsider can appear to be whatever he/she needs to be in the moment - including invisible - and an insider can only stand his/her ground

It's guesswork through imagination.

lidlo lady wrote:
The insider says that freedom is what-should-be without knowing anything about freedom, and the outsider is free to appear to be whatever doesn't upset the insider.

Insider is saying this, so as usual, is meaningless.

I don't know

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #15
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks, Lidlo, for your reply (#12)

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #16
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
Insider is saying this, so as usual, is meaningless.

Lidlo's answer was very 'meaningful'/insightful (to me) and completely relevant to my question, Dhirendraji.

This post was last updated by Katy 9 (account deleted) Sun, 15 Apr 2012.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #17
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Katy 9 wrote:
Lidlo's answer was very 'meaningful'/insightful (to me) and completely relevant to my question, Dhirendraji.

Hi Katyji

I don't disagree with you,my point is you are still insider, insight was not sufficient enough to push you outside.:)

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Sun, 15 Apr 2012.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #18
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
It's guesswork through imagination.

Bingo!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #19
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Perhaps in the larger view this photo gives us a look at the image making process? How we all see the same photo..but draw upon speculation and conjecture and imagination to fill the void of the unknown[purpose] intention behind my good friend Ravi's posting of it?:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #20
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

The above being said...I would say that to me ..it seems to represent the circle of life...if you will?:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

This post was last updated by RICK LEIN (account deleted) Sun, 15 Apr 2012.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #21
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

RICK LEIN wrote:
How we all see the same photo..but draw upon speculation and conjecture and imagination to fill the void of the unknown[purpose] intention behind my good friend Ravi's posting of it?

I don't think there would have been any confusion, guessing or mystery, really, Rick, had we not already been discussing the topic titled: 'Outsiders'...

RICK LEIN wrote:
The above being said...I would say that to me ..it seems to represent the circle of like..if you will?:)

Yes :)

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #22
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
:) What is stupid, title or photo?Photo look very artistic, I can't find any extra stupidity in this photo.

You're right, "stupid" isn't the word for the photo. PengPaul's word "staged" is more accurate.

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #23
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

http://i.imgur.com/9vrA5.jpg

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Sun, 15 Apr 2012 #24
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
you are still insider, insight was not sufficient enough to push you outside.:)

Nobody here is claiming to be an outsider. We're just inquiring into what an outsider is. We made it clear how an insider one moment can be an outsider the next, and how an outsider can appear to be an insider but never actually is one. Go back and read it with an open mind. Forget that I called Ravi's photo "stupid".

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Tue, 17 Apr 2012 #25
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks, Lidlo, for the photo (#23)...I tried to copy it here so that people could view it directly just as we can with Ravi's but it was not technically possible.

It speaks for itself as to the 'why' so I will spare y'all the tedium of writing/reading what it evoked (for me).

This post was last updated by Katy 9 (account deleted) Tue, 17 Apr 2012.

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Tue, 17 Apr 2012 #26
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

http://youtu.be/dF_3w_gXing (Nothin' by Townes Van Zandt)

...And you better pray that they never find you...

...They crush you down, down into nothing...

Sorrow and solitude, these are the precious things

And the only words that are worth remembering.

( p. s. To those for whom this song's lyrics and video bear no relation to the title: 'outsiders', please ignore it)

This post was last updated by Katy 9 (account deleted) Tue, 17 Apr 2012.

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Tue, 17 Apr 2012 #27
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy 9 wrote:
It speaks for itself as to the 'why' so I will spare y'all the tedium of writing/reading what it evoked (for me).

I'd like to hear what it evoked for you.

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Thu, 19 Apr 2012 #28
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
I'd like to hear what it evoked for you.

I wrote quite a lot, Lidlo, about the photograph yet the ramble/rattle of the words themselves resonated too much darkness, perhaps, for others to read... reflections upon/ about human tragedy - alienation, 'our lot', really, were evoked for me. Regards, Katy

This post was last updated by Katy 9 (account deleted) Thu, 19 Apr 2012.

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Thu, 19 Apr 2012 #29
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Katy 9 wrote:
Thanks, Lidlo, for the photo (#23)...I tried to copy it here so that people could view it directly just as we can with Ravi's but it was not technically possible

alt text

I don't know

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Thu, 19 Apr 2012 #30
Thumb_stringio Katy 9 United Kingdom 1197 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks, Dhirendra...

This post was last updated by Katy 9 (account deleted) Thu, 19 Apr 2012.

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