Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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A stroll in a day..... a reflection of the mind....past, present,&future.


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Sun, 09 Oct 2011 #91
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
And I am wondering in what manner this probing will be started by you!

I will let you know.

nothing

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Mon, 10 Oct 2011 #92
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Todays walk turned to be quite and composed without much of reactions pouring out of the mind.I wondered how that went that way.I have stopped makeing effort to hold the mind.

The previous day my mind was over taken by the suggestion that even walking could also be a belief.I am aware of some ideas about walking that were recorded in few of these of postings in this topic, such as1)freedom from reactions 2)Aloneness3) lonliness4)dependence& independence.The ideas are no less than the beliefs in manufactureing illusions.It's a clarity.It has its own force.

Let me close for today,with due aknowldgements to poster of the posting86 in this topic.

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Mon, 10 Oct 2011 #93
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
I have stopped makeing effort to hold the mind.

ArjunaRao, what was happening when you were holding the mind? When you say 'mind' do you mean 'thought' here?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Mon, 10 Oct 2011 #94
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
ArjunaRao, what was happening when you were holding the mind? When you say 'mind' do you mean 'thought' here?

Yes, You are right.

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Tue, 11 Oct 2011 #95
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
when you were holding the mind?

not relating the thought.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Tue, 11 Oct 2011 #96
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

I tried to wtite this posting for the last three ours, each time I tried to recollect the reactions of the day,they were not to come before the mind.Unless the self is over indulgent, the recollection is not really thorough.THe walking was quite brisk today.The walking concluded 15 minites early today.

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Tue, 11 Oct 2011 #97
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

I was walking the other day and noticing how easily I am distracted in the town streets. Wherever humanity prevails there is a confusion that is hard to separate from. And if I am not separate I am distracted. The litter, the ugly or pretty faces, the advertising and commercialism, the odd comments of people passing by. And of course, my own reactions to all this. And I do not want to be reactive. I want to be relaxed and enjoying everything around me.

So I find I go into myself, look for an inner focus. And this effort to not be distracted leads to some inner dialogue about some problem I have to deal with, maybe pay a bill or repair the house, something other than the confusion around me. And of course I am quickly lost in my own confusions.

It is difficult for me to walk among people without comparing and judging. And it is so much easier to walk in nature and NOT have to withdraw into myself.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 11 Oct 2011 #98
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
It is difficult for me to walk among people without comparing and judging. And it is so much easier to walk in nature and NOT have to withdraw into myself.

Indeed,it really tough staying without reacting to surrounding when we are walking in the city streets,and most of the reactions based on petti carvings,which make you feel that your most insignificant mortal walking.If the walking is in some vegitation or green fields, we don't need to feel that we are of less mortals.We could be watching the beauty of nature.

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Thu, 13 Oct 2011 #99
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

It appears that influence of the postings seems to be quite frequent during the stroll.Whether I call it an effort or work of some thing else, it is obvious that few clarification did improve the quality of observation.The self projection of thought, which has been hounting us on the site,seems to improve its quality,sudenly it seems to have gone out of its focus,thus allowing the self to assert itself.The only conforting aspect is that, is :the JK's assertion that the attention is always discreat and can not be continuous.We are to start from where we lost our attention.

The projection of self content of the thought disguises the content of the fact that thought carries with it.The observation reduces the self content of thought,and puts the fact behind the reaction in front of us.Then self has no other chioce but distort the attention to make its presence felt.

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Thu, 13 Oct 2011 #100
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dear K, I am not sure but I think you are writing about two different things. I could not understand your last post so I am trying to find out where I am losing you. Is it like this?

1) Self-peception of thought: (which David Bohm called 'proprioception of thought') where thought looks at itself and discovers its own motion and its own illusions.

2) Self-projection of thought: where self is projecting itself through the vehicle of thought towards some self-centred conclusion or action.

In which case, (1) cannot take place in the presence of (2) without being corrupted and negated.

It seems to me that self is not a real entity but a pattern, but one which has gathered to itself a tremendous momentum. And this momentum carries itself forward whenever attention is lax and can be gathered up by self. And it came into my head that judo is the practice of using the 'opponents' momentum against himself, thus negating that momentum. I wonder whether attention could learn that trick, which implies intelligent observation/action, rather than combatting with force?

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

This post was last updated by Paul Davidson (account deleted) Thu, 13 Oct 2011.

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Thu, 13 Oct 2011 #101
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
The self projection of thought, which has been hounting us on the site,seems to improve its quality,sudenly it seems to have gone out of its focus,thus allowing the self to assert itself.

It should read as:The examining of the self projection of the thought, which has been hounting us on the site,seems to have improved the quality of the observation, however sudenly it(observation) seems have gone out of focus, thus allowing the self to assert itself

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Thu, 13 Oct 2011 #102
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
It seems to me that self is not a real entity but a pattern, but one which has gathered to itself a tremendous momentum. And this momentum carries itself forward whenever attention is lax and can be gathered up by self. And it came into my head that judo is the practice of using the 'opponents' momentum against himself, thus negating that momentum.

Sure, such type of expirience is felt many times, but I doubt whether the self always does like that.There is lot of confusion about it.

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Thu, 13 Oct 2011 #103
Thumb_avatar me speak Sri Lanka 392 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
It seems to me that self is not a real entity but a pattern, but one which has gathered to itself a tremendous momentum. And this momentum carries itself forward whenever attention is lax and can be gathered up by self.

activities of 'me/i/self' are more powerful and natural than movement of attention. what is not present in mind can not become lax, can it, brother?

Paul Davidson wrote:
And it came into my head...

that is the way to learn! more words...and then some more...

Paul Davidson wrote:
I wonder whether attention could learn that trick, which implies intelligent observation/action, rather than combatting with force?

still wondering about activities of 'attention', brother paul? not good for your reputation as teacher to accept such ignorance publicly.

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Thu, 13 Oct 2011 #104
Thumb_avatar me speak Sri Lanka 392 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Sure, such type of expirience is felt many times, but I doubt whether the self always does like that.There is lot of confusion about it.

me understand. living in darkness has its negative sides, brother. one can not live with fire (self) and avoid burning the hands (confusion). but do not lose heart. gain more and more powerful experiences and all will be well.:)

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Fri, 14 Oct 2011 #105
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Took a resolve not to verbalize the reactions.As long as the object was some solid figures such as cars,people or symbols, the word held itself out,did not speak out, the problem is with words on the bill boards ,and the numbers on the number plates on the vehicals.The effort seem to hold out nicely for some time, till I noticed a ball point pen without cap leying on the road.

Intailly I over looked ,and walked ahead,but I turned back to pick it up, with intention of helping the school bay who had lost it. I looked out for school students who take their school bus there at that place.There were no body in and around that place.Immedaitly the mind swang into the past,where once I had found a five rupe coin on asfi nagar& mehadipatanam road, near asif nagar police station.The rest of the neration of after the power cut.The effect of ungoing Telangana Strike.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 14 Oct 2011.

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Fri, 14 Oct 2011 #106
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

This is incontinuation of previous posting: A memory.

I picked up the coin laying on the road, and looked side ways.There were two kids, I think they are brother and sisters.I don't think the kids were aware that i picked up a five rupee coin from the road.In fact they were in hurry to go to school.I don't know what prompted me to ask the boy besides me whether the coin was his.The boy promptly resonded with the negation, and next second he heard me say that I found it on the road.Then he held back,and put his hands into his nicker pockets, expresions in his face changed.He was about to say some thing, a voice called to him.It must have been his mother who was bringing other child of her.The boy turened his face frequently beween me and his mother, I stopped for a while and continued walking looking backwards.The mother called out again, boy stopped all his reactions and ran towards her. I continued my walk back to my house.

Intailly both the boy and me were never had the intention of making a claim or possesing of the coin.It all started once the mind came into its fullswing.This possesive nature is defenetly of the self.It came from nowhere and engaged both of us.How it had spoiled our innosens?

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 14 Oct 2011.

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Sat, 15 Oct 2011 #107
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

This is to bring toThe notice of those of us who were quite absorbed in puting across the negative thinking& positive thinking in words.We may not have gone wrong in undestanding the issues concerned, we did have difference of opnion in the words we chose to explain.I am giving below whatJK had to say in his public talks in Madras(Channai) in 1961, November 26, source:The Nature of The New Mind(page37).

....... Then,it is also important to understand what is positive thinking and negative thinking,because seeing the fact is negative thinking.But if you approach the fact with an opinion, a judgement, an evaluation,that is positve thinking which destroys the fact.If I want to understand something,I must look at it and not have an opinion about it......

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Sat, 15 Oct 2011.

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Sun, 16 Oct 2011 #108
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

It was suggested to me that the best way to meditatively attentive to the walking is to be , is that the attention of the walker should be on walking.The actor is to have his attention on action,even if the action is in fact happens to be even reaction. In such a situation the observer is with observed.

This is supposed to be based on the idea that an actor is the action.The self centre appears only when action has a motive, requires a result out of the action.Thought as action splits itself as an actor and action, distorting the observation.Therefore The walker is not to forget that he is walking, and stay with it.Otherwise trace the distorter to his origin, that is, the distortion, and stay with distortion.The observer , then , is observed.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Sun, 16 Oct 2011.

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Thu, 20 Oct 2011 #109
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

One of the very frequent reactions that we encounter when you are left alone is, identification of oneself with some thing that we observe,and then slip your self into some imagination or some sort of fantacy.It could be a story telling to yourself.A thorough pleasure seeking, only thing is you are not aware of it , till your attentions is drawn.There is no breaking of logical sequence of thought.It could make a story.At end of it, once your recovered, you feel the shalowness and emptiness behind it, that is because you never intended a story to develop. That is what makes own feel the misery after a bout of near madness imgination.You stay with it, recover,slowly reach normality.

I believe that that has something to do with your dispositon towards the process of desire.Could any individual pose a question to himself that,"IS it necessary that every wish of mine is fullfilled every time I wish?"

This sensitivity is not deep enough to break the process of desire .The motivation, the will to do may dilute,the seeds of desire may not go.They show up as reactions to observations,and thought process results in sheear fantacy.At several places JK had indicated the danger of imagination.

Just think of the following(Imagination)

There was a discussion on bad scripts that local fillim makers prepare for making fillims.The script is given importance for creating sensation rather than story content and cherectarisation.Immediatly an idea sprang up for a story with a person less conditioned or unconditioned person who had better awareness who would influence the developments in the story.

The story would have a boy who is suffering due to sever neck pain.The medical help is of no help to the boy.He finds a way on his own without any verbalization. with the result boy becomes very sensitve when he is active, or dull with suffering.....The imaginer broke his imagination, once he felt after all he was reacting to some thing.Infact he is been reading too much of Jk.

This neration is just to point out who nasty the process of imagination could be?Few things are left out, which could taken up latter.

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Thu, 20 Oct 2011 #110
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Very good post, K (no flattery intended).

It seems to me that sometimes I generate an interest or desire just to keep the narrative of 'me' going. I give it importance to fill the plot. When I really question that desire I often find I actually do not desire the thing. It is a chimera, no substance. But the mere action around the desire reinforces it. I feel that much more of the personality is made up of such idiocies then we notice or imagine.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Thu, 20 Oct 2011 #111
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
But the mere action around the desire reinforces it. I feel that much more of the personality is made up of such idiocies then we notice or imagine.

The identification of objects and their influence on reactions(imagination) what makes us look petty little creatures.

All the same thanks for your nice comments.

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Thu, 20 Oct 2011 #112
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
It seems to me that sometimes I generate an interest or desire just to keep the narrative of 'me' going. I give it importance to fill the plot. When I really question that desire I often find I actually do not desire the thing. It is a chimera, no substance. But the mere action around the desire reinforces it. I feel that much more of the personality is made up of such idiocies then we notice or imagine.

yes, it is very difficult for the mind to remain unoccupied for any length of time effortlessly, Paul. To enquire about or make efforts in this regard is to strengthen the ways of self/me. Can one move ahead without any searchig/seeking/desiring in this regard?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Thu, 20 Oct 2011 #113
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
yes, it is very difficult for the mind to remain unoccupied for any length of time effortlessly, Paul.

It seems there is an abhorrence of stillness. I think there is also always a great deal of inner tension in the brain that tries to 'ground' itself and looks for any excuse to do so. It is a healthy response when the tension is small and incidental but our level of tension is critical and chronic. It needs to be understood at the root because no amount of grounding can create the balance the brain needs.

We end up with this churning of thought which has been called monkey mind rather than dealing with the underlying tension at its source.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Thu, 20 Oct 2011 #114
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
yes, it is very difficult for the mind to remain unoccupied for any length of time effortlessly, Paul.

It seems there is an abhorrence of stillness. I think there is also always a great deal of inner tension in the brain that tries to 'ground' itself and looks for any excuse to do so. It is a healthy response when the tension is small and incidental but our level of tension is critical and chronic. It needs to be understood at the root because no amount of grounding can create the balance the brain needs.

We end up with this churning of thought which has been called monkey mind rather than dealing with the underlying tension at its source.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Sat, 22 Oct 2011 #115
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

I received two phone calls, and few sms from an insurance company to join their team of agents to make living out of the insurance bussiness,just before I was to leave for a walk.The mind had enough stuff to react , pounder over what do with the offer.First thing that stuck my mind was the change of life style.In fact I asked the the counsellor if this aceptance of their offer was not going to change the life style mine, during my first meeting.Indeed there is going to be change in life style, as this insurance is a corporate bussiness,unlike the academic life style.The boss shall dictate the life style to a considerable extent.

What does it mean to me?

It was not necessary to do bussiness with my academic life as it was governament aidded institute.I was wondering why the company was hiring the academic people.It appears the insurance is growing bussiness.

The influence of so called economic reforms in India had turned the college education into bussiness.We were to do bussiness with our teaching by promising a sure result if the students attend my class.At least that was not how we were trained originally.

How do we look at every aspect of life in terms of bussiness? Is life only bussiness?

We were given to understand that the bussiness/ economics is living process.Once we are at the mercy of market forces, we are made to change from old dogma to new one that living is bussiness.

Is the converse really true?

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Sat, 22 Oct 2011 #116
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dear Kamarajugadda,

There are businesses and there are businesses. You no doubt know the business you have been offered a start in. Insurance, which is the commercialisation of security, is based upon fear. In a poor country only the rich can afford it and they do it out of fear for the future of their health and their wealth.

But there is a thoroughly rotten side to insurance which is that, having got that prized security, one ceases to pay attention to the dangers one faces in life. After all, if something goes wrong, the insurance is in place, so why worry? In some sense, insurance, like security itself, is a type of sleep.

Many years ago I went for a job in selling insurance and they put me through all sorts of psychological tests until the final interview. The man sat behind his desk and pierced me with his long-drawn gaze.

Finally he said, "Mr. Davidson, you passed all the tests and could do very well here, but there is something bothering me. What do you really want out of life? What do you yearn for?"

I thought about it and told him straight, " I want my daughter to be happy and I want to be happy."

"That's just it," he said, leaning back into his chair, "Most guys I get in here say they want a big house with a pool and a Ferrari parked in the drive."

I didn't take the job.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

This post was last updated by Paul Davidson (account deleted) Sat, 22 Oct 2011.

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Sat, 22 Oct 2011 #117
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
I didn't take the job.

Your posting seems to suggest that the living need not be a bussiness.I hold my heart with it too.Unfortunatly the elected government do not seem to follow this notion. They are interested in wealth,growth and development. It appears to be living but it turns out to be an illusion.It is defenetly put few of the population out side the state budgets.

I wish some body start a discussion on living is bussiness process or bussiness is living process.

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Sat, 22 Oct 2011.

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Sat, 22 Oct 2011 #118
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
I wish some body start a discussion on living is bussiness process or bussiness is living process.

Please, please start the thread Kamarajugadda. I am on the special Rickfonet 'starting new thread' diet, until the backlog clears. I am doing quite well up to now.

But yes, we have to earn money to live and so, go where the jobs are. Government jobs are not 'spiritually better' than private ones. K suggested not to go into anything that promotes or depends upon conflict. My own partner is a university professor, in medicine and is heartily sick of the ruthless competitiveness of academic life. We will buy some land and live there. City life is mutuality in destruction. It is better to go to where one can grow.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Sat, 22 Oct 2011 #119
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
Please, please start the thread Kamarajugadda. I am on the special Rickfonet 'starting new thread' diet, until the backlog clears. I am doing quite well up to now.

Don't you think that my mentality is some thing reactive to the bussiness life.It is not fair for me to start such one.I wish some one who makes life with bussiness without much hassels, starts it, so that I can pour out my reaction to it and get a feel of it and understand the bussiness process.

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Sat, 22 Oct 2011 #120
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
I am on the special Rickfonet 'starting new thread' diet, until the backlog clears.

Why not get clearance from the same.

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