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pavani rao's Forum Posts

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Displaying posts 1 - 30 of 541 in total
Topic: A slice of life/death in Southern California Sun, 11 Nov 2018

Severe & shocking incident of death of huge number of people happened in here few weeks ago , which had shaken the country . In one of the worst train accidents of its kind , some fifty odd people were massacred / mowed down by a fast running train when they were standing on rail tracks and in ' awe ' watching nothing great but some fire cracker show on one of the festival days. What a sheer shameful, pitiable and the extremely sorrowful incident for the local administration and for the country !

Well the incident calls for lot of questions as to sheer negligence of the people for their lives ? extreme callous nature of both the railways and the local admin as mentioned already ... one just cannot help but wonder if no one has any control over death , in the sense the time of birth and death are pre destined ... Is some ones such miserable fate that made this incident happen ? As mentioned by Jack the death and fate of one and half million people of Vietnam by American soldiers , also millions who die in various wars and otherwise either by accidents, diseases or of old age , So on and so forth .... Life and death happens all the time in the Universe ... On the other hand there are many who take every precaution but simply die away in very fluke accidents and incidents ?

In other words no one knows when death comes knocking at ones door and when one has to leave everything behind and go away .... and the question that comes to mind, what kind of life one is living / leading ... When some one asked K as to how one should lead ones life in such a scenario his answer was ' live life in kindness, goodness and love ' .... also he says ' live as though you are going to die next day ' .... ( sorry Jack could not quote citation , I'm very poor at it , but remember reading this conversation in one of the ' commentaries of living ' series .

Topic: fundamental change or revealing true character ? Wed, 24 Oct 2018

Wim Opdam wrote: It's also seen here that defending and holding is pointing to some image.

Wim Opdam wrote: can we determine that for someone else or is that only for 100% in yourself to investigate, eventually everything in ourselves is potentially present, but is that activated or not?

Hi Wim

In the above parts of the post whatever I can make out is that you are referring to the exchange between me and Jayraj about K . and yes the onus is 100 % on oneself to investigate and I think as we all understand by now it's an on going process of ' listening and learning and exploring '

talking about ' images' and how that ' image ' making process in oneself hurts oneself and how if unchecked and un tackled .... can hamper ones understanding and moving on in ones life ... In my understanding K is certainly not saying one to become ' static or statue ' like and neither the implication is one turning into ' blank state ' whatever that may mean ...

Expressing how one feels about certain things or some body ... Does that come under the category of ' image making ' or carrying ' images ' ?

Topic: fundamental change or revealing true character ? Tue, 23 Oct 2018

Nice to meet you here too Jayraj

Well I too share similar feelings about K like reverence, awe, wonder in the initial stages of coming across his books and reading. Now after understanding him and his persona from various bios and personal accounts written by people, along with the above feelings, affection, and a sense of ' indebtedness ' if I can use that word have settled in.

Well when I had mentioned about the ' image' , and ' the process of getting hurt' ... per se I just repeated what I remembered reading from k texts. which happens to be a fact and speaking in general terms. Not to say that I was talking directly to you. Your post conveyed as if I was talking to you. If the intention was not, may be I had mistaken.

Well regarding the last part of your post ending of ' image making process ' may be its an on going process Jayraj , don't you think so ? and may be it boils down to the fact that how 'serious' and how ' important ' one perceives the utmost necessity of ending this whole process ....

Topic: fundamental change or revealing true character ? Sun, 21 Oct 2018

Dan McDermott wrote:

My question is, is it necessary to create images

Wim Opdam wrote: And what is the clothing of the image ? Is that not the conclusion that it is such or so instead of this was such or so? One carry it forward in the present and or future and not let stay it in the past.

Hi Dan and Wim

One suggestion if I may ... rather than seeing each part of these aspects of ' self ' .... the image making, pattern forming ' , escaping from what is ' sticking or clinging to the ' identity ' .... all these aspects are but same sides of one coin ... ' self '

Now the question is can all these segments can be seen in oneself and discern from what is relevant to that which is irrelevant ? In other words can all aspects be seen in totality ? and come to terms with what ever findings one faces / understands ?

Hope the post is making sense . One more suggestion : in this aspect I found one book extremely helpful, ' Don't make a problem of anything ' in which k discusses at length of all the above mentioned issues with various close inner circle of people who stayed with him .

Topic: fundamental change or revealing true character ? Sun, 21 Oct 2018

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: Not that we first get hurt & find ways of getting round that. Is it possible not to get hurt in the first instance?

Hi Jayraj

I think we haven't interacted earlier. But me being more of a passive reader and some what reluctant and inactive participant where writing is concerned, can make out that your responses to fellow posters of the forum are mostly very well balanced , calm and gentle .... which might be the result of years of inquiring, exploring, and discovering about human consciousness - the main thrust of K teaching, according to me.

In the above statement I feel you have made a good point . Well if I remember well , I think in the book ' Beginnings of learning ' while having extensive and elaborate discussions with young students , K discusses this issue of ' getting hurt ' and answers the question also as to what is 'it ' that gets hurt ?

The ' image ' that one has or one forms in the course of ones life of oneself like : very intelligent , very knowledgeable , well versed in lot of things , talented in many fields etc ... and when one feels the other person is trying to cause damage or caused damage to that ' image ' of oneself ... One gets hurt .

Kindly correct me if I have quoted wrong .

Topic: The surprising lack of gratitude Thu, 18 Oct 2018

Jack Pine wrote: With her passive/aggressive style and general attitude and other points I'd say she's a woman for sure

Isn't that a huge generalization you have in mind regarding ' women ' Jack ? Well you have corrected your statement later, but nevertheless that shows your opinions which might have been formed due to the interaction of women you might have come across in your life ? In the same way may be you think being angry and extremely prickly be the male characteristic ? Yes that's what often I feel reading / going through your responses to other fellow posters of the forum . I'm sure many people may be feeling the same way about you .

Now coming to the other side of you, I have great appreciation for your deep understanding of k teaching and often your ability to see ' false ' ' illusory ' nature in the people and in their posts and this quality in itself I feel is commendable .

Often you write that we need to understand our ' conditioning ' but how will that happen if one is not looking at oneself ? the way one perceives oneself and the way others' perceive oneself ... all together some what forms to some extent the persona of the person , isn't it ? When k speaks of observing oneself , either of ones feelings , emotions and ones problems and take them to the root of the issue and arrive at understanding oneself ... how that can be done ? If one is not willing to unravel this mystery of oneself ... Why the way one is ? which forms the basis of ' self knowledge '

Well Jack as long and old members of this forum I felt like sharing all the above points in honesty , if you find my post objectionable , I won't mind deleting it .

Topic: The surprising lack of gratitude Thu, 18 Oct 2018

Dan : I think that it's safe to say that we are 'grateful', that we feel a sense of 'gratitude that K. did bring the 'teaching' into the world and into our lives

That's a very interesting point you have made Dan and reasoned out well too in your post . In similar lines few points were there in my mind . When we look at our own selves and our lives , leave out expressing / feeling gratitude towards k and the teaching , how much gratitude we express towards the Mother Earth ? In spite of the fact that our sole existence is completely and entirely dependent on the nurturing of the Mother Earth in a million ways?

On the other hand what does expressing of gratitude mean any ways ? Just paying lip service of ' thank you ' and be done with it ? Or extremely be aware and being sensitive towards all of these issues and also be aware how in million ways we humans are causing harm / destruction to the various species and the rich resources of our planet ?

As such if some one feels ' greatful ' towards few things or few people what's preventing them to show their feelings ? May be all these not much discussed qualities like expressing gratitude, showing kindness and appreciation to ones fellow beings ... all are nice and good in their own way ...

Topic: The surprising lack of gratitude Wed, 17 Oct 2018

Hi idiot?

Interesting question about K and gratitude ... apparently it seems the question is not far fetched as k himself received notes from people asking about his not expressing gratitude towards 'masters ' during his life time ( courtesy relevant quote put up by Jack ) and in your case it seems your question is why he never expressed gratitude towards the so called rich / wealthy people who donated some money for the establishment of schools or the study centers ... the work he took up in his life .

Well come to think of it the man who denounced vast / expansive wealth and property which was waiting for him to take over when the Theosophists were about to crown him as their ' messiah ' .. and simply walked away from all that wealth and glory .. what value is money for a person like that ? and I remember reading him saying to few people that if / when the intent to do anything is strongly there ... money will follow as it never can be an issue .

Isn't ' compassion ' broad based , all encompassing word than ' gratitude ' ? I think his life is nothing but true embodiment of ' compassion ' the way he used to travel all over the world giving talks , discussing the same issues in spite of his old age and frail health , till the last days of his life ...

Topic: Just a word of thanks... Tue, 17 Jul 2018

Hello Katy

Its good to read your post , retrospectively I had gone through your opening post too. yes you are right the way this thread had grown into such huge proportions and in so many different directions, .... but interestingly you were no to be seen anywhere at all :)

well frankly speaking both your posts , the opening one and this one is a proof that how much you have moved on in your life. In my experience and whatever little I had seen in my life, few people have the humility to share about serious things of their lives, acknowledge and accept life's pros and cons, upheavals. in your case you are generous in attributing the credit to some faceless 'Kinfonetians' . but where as I feel it's the presence of ' learning curve' in oneself that makes one grasp the real content and contributes in progression in ones life.

Any how it's nice meeting you in here again :) Many many happy returns for your birthday on Friday. May your life's years be filled with joy and peace.

Best regards.

Topic: Why is this site so inactive? Tue, 03 Jul 2018

Hi every one

Dan, Huguette and wim , sorry couldn't come back to the thread as I was kind of busy with grand kids and all that :) Well if I can address few points all together in one post ... Sorry Dan if at any point of our interactions if I ever made a remark of ' ignorant ' at you ( as far as my knowledge goes I don't remember ever saying so blatant a remark like that to you ) in fact I enjoy reading most of your posts when time permits as they come out with understanding, insight and clarity and so are the posts of Huguette . and Dan I do agree with the entire content of your post which sounds rather fiery ! :) for people like you who are quite good in expressive abilities, writing regularly , expressing vividly may be a good form of exploration with others . But for me it's the other way round . being silent and rather a kind of introverted person from my childhood ... for me the answers occur in mostly my day to day interactions with people around me and in spending time with nature . and of course enormous material of K texts keeps one aboard , not getting lost in illusions and provides a good check where one is ... and as Good man made a very valid point, I would like to conclude this post with that remark .

Goodman B wrote: As far as being silent or not silent is a question of intelligence and wisdom. Krishnamurti spoke from silence but he surely talked a lot. Intelligence is in listening not in talking or being silent .

Topic: Why is this site so inactive? Tue, 03 Jul 2018

Patricia Hemingway wrote: Hello Pavani.....

Hello Patricia How have you been ? Good to hear from you :)

Topic: Why is this site so inactive? Mon, 02 Jul 2018

Hi Goodman

" Hardly anybody is online."

? Is it so ? On the contrary I feel people all over the world prefer to stay online. Every one glued to cell phones and other gadgets all the time ; isn't that a common site either in market places , malls or at air ports etc ?

"Have we actually lost interest in the teachings?"

May be its the other way round? Those who are actually interested in the teachings are the ones who are doing the 'silent work' ..... Either working on themselves or working with others .... I'm quite sure there must be thousands of people around the world who were affected by K teaching who might have heard him directly or by accidentally coming across the books one way or the other .

"Have we found refuge in the idea of the self and satisfied there?"

Didn't quite understand that question there .

Topic: K's superstitions Thu, 28 Jun 2018

" In other words, if you are deeply invested in K, does that affect how you feel about some of these matters? " ( #43 idiot?)

When one is deeply affected by K , the man and the teaching .... these are the matters one is least bothered with . Frankly speaking it feels like one is leaving the majestic elephant with all its elegance, grace to pass by and holding on to the least important foot steps ... Sorry the intent is not to point fingers at any body but that is the analogy that came to mind while reading about this blog . In fact I was searching for some extract posted by Ken ( now it's not seen ) where in K expressing his extreme unhappiness at being called , pointed out so often when people used to address him as ' messiah ' and such other names . Still how he continued relentlessly in his ' work ' giving his entire life and everything for it . How can one not touched by such 'humanness ' and such dedication for that self assigned job of his which had taken away the one important quality which we all enjoy and which he was deprived of in his life . The anonymity and joys of being what we are and leading lives the way we like ....

Major thrust and crux of K teaching is very well brought out by Jack and especially by Huguette in their eloquent posts to a great extent.

Topic: Understanding "constrained" in the QOTD Wed, 09 Aug 2017

Dan : " a taking in and a letting go..and being here, there "

"LETTING GO " is certainly a key Dan , as far as my understanding of K teaching goes .... but then the problem is if time lapse between the idea of ' letting go ' and the real action of ' letting go ' is too broad , then I'm afraid one is loosing the worth and value of that ' insight '

In K terms that is asking for ' time ' and of no use at all . Either there is ' seeing ' or there is none . Explanations , wonderful analyses how ever good they may sound , but they cannot bring true peace , and they pale away in the light of ' insightful seeing ' .... which is possible only when one truly and really ' DOES '

None of the members of the forum are neither naive nor joined yesterday , in the sense most of us are quite old as far as our membership of the forum goes . In my opinion there are only two people who come in multiple forms and have this habit of perpetually expressing themselves in the forums . Well if one is speaking of ones experience of how one goes about ' unravelling ' oneself ... Order is / has to be restored amongst different fragments of ' oneself ' pulling in ten different directions ...

I'm sure it's not at all easy and indeed quite difficult too to keep away or let go of the ' image ' of oneself ... Since one started quite early in age exploring into all these ' spiritual ' matters and some how one felt that one ' understood ' everything .... and when one came across K teaching one finds out that he is speaking from an entirely different dimension altogether .. and it turns out that however ' intelligent , sensible and wise ' one is .... unless and until he / she examines all this and musters the ability to ' let go ' of all the ' images ' mind conceived of everything .... No foundation can be formed ... Long read and remembered quote comes to mind " foundation of truth cannot be formed on castles of sand '

Well Dan that looks like a long post there . Well with the long association of staying together in the forums I felt free to express how / what I see the things as they appear to be to me . Kindly forgive me if any aspect of the post sounds objectionable ... After all it's our life . Every one has the right to live the way one likes / lives ...

Topic: Understanding "constrained" in the QOTD Tue, 08 Aug 2017

Endless ' intellectualization ' is a sign of ignorance Sean . There is a world of difference in passive / random participation of sharing ones understanding / views, life's experiences and genuine inquiry to compulsive dead habbit of wanting to stay online wasting away ones energy levels .

Topic: Understanding "constrained" in the QOTD Tue, 08 Aug 2017

Yes Dan some one had to be CONCERNED about the forums and you people are doing a great job about that . Naturally those who are more concerned of finding out about what K pointed out and in unraveling ' oneself ' had left the forums .... As the realization dawns on one that endless ' intellectualization ' cannot help in resolving ones life's issues and on top of it takes away ones vital energy levels ....

Bringing the example of K was a poor one Dan . As a very old member of the forums and mostly writer of very sensible and wise posts , one expected better answers from you .

Topic: Understanding "constrained" in the QOTD Tue, 08 Aug 2017

Why ask questions Dan , when one is not in a listening / learning mode ?

Patricia : " The fact is disorder. There is no judgement in staying with that fact, and in the only place where one has total access to understanding its movement, which is within one's own thoughts and actions.

And in not understanding that we human beings have it ALL wrong - not just a little bit here and there that we can tweak back into place. ALL WRONG.

Perhaps the real problem is in the willingness to allow some 'comforts' to slip by. Believing that there is no real harm in that, and that if there is - well that is 'my' right." ( post 5 )

I think in her above post ( 5 ) in this thread Patricia summed up well in more or less terms answering to your queries .

and I think there are problems many fold and many dimensional ... Unable to accept the basic fact is one is ' ignorant ' of what all K is referring to . Lack of inner coordination / integration ... Various parts of ' oneself ' asserting , affirming to state that one ' knows / understands ' ... Boredom / loneliness and the fear of facing oneself which manifests in the form of this urge to constantly indulging in expressing / writing activities ....

When the' constraints' are not seen and not acknowledged where is the space for inner order ? Leave out ' freedom' ?

Topic: The beauty of it. Tue, 20 Jun 2017

Hi idiot?

Wonderful post. What a beautiful review on K and his life!

" The myth of Gautama Buddha is that he grew up a prince with riches, kept away from suffering. Then he gave that up to live life as a penniless hermit in the woods. Eventually he found the middle way between extremes.

The Theosophists did the opposite. They took a poor Indian kid and made him a prince. He eventually found, not the middle way, but no way - that truth is a pathless land and there is no method. Fascinating reverse Buddha story."

The above observations between Goutama Buddha and K are so interesting and they nevertheless brought a smile and good laugh :) a good study and going to remain in memory for long time.

" Investigating for yourself is core K."

" K didn't just poof!, pull his teaching out of thin air. He was trained to be the spiritual teacher of the world. He had to free himself from the training and sift out the real from the baloney. But it is so interesting to see what baby he kept when he threw out the bath water."

The above statements regarding k and the teaching that emerged are being fundamentally true, very well thought out and insightful .

Topic: Is thought the enemy? Thu, 25 May 2017

Idiot? : " When you have drunk long and deep of the still waters, only then will thought be able to be in the service of silence, to ride silence to understanding.( #16 )

How important it is , isn't it ? to first understand the significance of ' silence ' .... and how nicely, elaborately k stated ample times how it's done and to be done and needs to be done . That very observation of nature, each and every aspect of it : the open skies , fluttering of birds wings, wonderful shades of sun sets , delicate color of new born leaves in spring time ... Indeed if one has eyes for it , one notices what splendor of nature one is surrounded with ... and when one applies that same quality of observation to ones own thoughts, people around .... something starts happening. There comes active withdrawal from ones hurly burly erratic , unnecessary excessive activities .

But then that is the beginning of it all . One needs to go to job, perform ones professional activities , take care of ones family and no way k allows one to retire from active life and go to the forests or the mountain sides to explore or do penance inorder to find out the answers. Unlike those enquiring , awakened ancients were advised to do after fulfilling their worldly responsibilities and that too in ones old age, and many used to follow the same way ... In the sense the rishis , the sages used to retire to the forests in search of the ultimate questions of GOD , or enlightenment or self realization ... But in the exhaustive work of K one finds that the emphasis is on finding out the answers is in the active field of every day to day living and the search needs to begin with oneself .

May be that is the beginning of ' setting of inquiry '

Is all ' thought ' fragmentary and divisive ? If so how can one act and interact in every day to day activities ? What is ' right thinking ? ' what does he mean by ' reservoir of goodness ' what exactly he means by ' living ' and ' dying to the known ' ? And there can be many more questions ... In his sixty years of exemplary work K teaching deals with all those very deep issues.

But the interesting aspect is how far one can go ? Is one only wants to ' accumulate ' and convert every thing into ' knowledge ' ? But then that is simply futile and useless endeavor . And there can be many who are wise and mature, had seen into all this and come to terms with ones limitations and hence are at peace with themselves .

Topic: Krishnamurti Miscellanea For The Curious Sun, 21 May 2017

Hi Ken

That was a remarkable extract, review of K on K himself . It immediately struck a chord as that was the understanding one arrived at after absorbing , internalizing the teaching for a good period of time / years .. which started when one is in sort of prime of ones life . More so because as I haven't read Mary Leuteyn's book ' The years of fulfillment ' , ( may be a compilation of K 's own statements , extracts spoken by him ) and that's why I was surprised to find similar views expressed by K .

If one goes by the written words of K , one can never be able to grasp the inner, deeper, coherent meaning / understanding k intending to point out . The teaching works only when one is completely , integrally , passionately imbibing the teaching in ones day to day activities . Because that is the arena / laboratory where one starts finding ... exploring the answers , the strong message one receives after crossing the phase of the initial stage of K terminology ... and the protagonist , the million dollar character of all this tremendously unfolding saga is none other than ' oneself '

There can be help from all sides , the ancient texts like the Upanishads, the Vedas and the essence of both the ancient texts is the ' Bhagavadgitha ' which I happened to read prior to coming across K books . Born in Hindu family I got familiar with the basic at the same time the fundamental tenets of the ancient texts ... The doctrine of Karma , deep belief in destiny and yes there is love for nature and reverence for the creator . If one reads K really searching, one comes across his respect for the ancient texts and of his extreme love of the ' beloved ' and his feeling so much at home in ' nature ' .

From the main post : " I can feel through all the pages of this book a sense of extraordinary love which the Tibetans might call the LOVE OR THE COMPASSION of the Bodhisattva, but when you give it a name and an ideological symbol you will lose the PERFUME . It has strangely affected my life...

It is curious also how he deals with meditation. MEDITATION according to him, can never be a conscious thing, and one can see the reason for this. If one meditates purposefully with a deliberate intention, consciousness then continues with all its content." Krishnamurti

' Love and compassion ' is the GROUND on which the inquiry is set in . Life and being in itself is in meditation

Topic: What is immortality ? Mon, 20 Feb 2017

Hi Jack

The above two posts are very interesting to read and and I feel your observations are quite valid and sound . Well I think the 'content' plays an important role. Arriving at understanding taking cognisance of the totality and wholeness leads to 'holistic understanding '

Topic: * Mon, 23 Jan 2017

Hi Huguette

Your above post #122 is so lucid , very well articulated and so well presented . No doubt to be able to arrive at that clarity in understanding might have taken very long years of deep reflection coupled with keen , sensitive and passionate 'search ' as certainly there are neither short cuts and nor any free lunches in this long process and years of hard work .... And every human being needs to work hard and realize and face this reality . Only one thing can be said the sooner the better .

" Your problem is not only to break away from the society, but to come to life again, to love and be simple. »- J.Krishnamurti, Commentaries on Living

Topic: * Mon, 23 Jan 2017

Jack : Pavani, I'm not sure what you want or expect of this forum or anyone on it or if you expect anything.

Event - An Intensive Week With Self Inquiry And Silence « What Prevents Us From Living Fully Now..?

« We never ask, never, how to live – to live with delight, with enchantment, with beauty every day. We have accepted life as it is with its agony and despair and have got used to it… To live completely, wholly everyday as if it were a new loveliness, there must be dying to everything of yesterday, otherwise you live mechanically, and a mechanical mind can never know what love is or what freedom is. » - J. Krishnamurti Freedom from the Known

What do we call life ? And how do most of us live ? Busy, agitated, hurrying all day long – the stress at work, the constant pre-occupations at home ? And then fruitless attempts to escape through the various entertainments our society lavishly provides : a mediocre, mechanical existence without any creative joy. Is this really living ? And even when we read so-called spiritual books or follow certain practices, how is it that our minds continue to remain mediocre and burdened with stories of past and future ? And what is this recurrent feeling of missing something essential, something precious ? The feeling that life passes me by, the feeling of a dreamlike, confused, often conflicting existence ?

What could it mean to be completely there, fully present, fully alive, awake and aware ? What prevents us from experiencing what Krishnamurti calls the wholeness of life ? And what might be the relevance of such a holistic way of living in a society torn by divisions – rising nationalities, violent ideologies, economic and financial wars and social inequalities… ? Why have we become the only species which is a threat to this beautiful earth ? So the question is : can we allow a new consciousness, a new mind to emerge – which is able to live with love and compassion in one’s daily life – by seeing through and ending the root cause of suffering and ignorance ?

In this week-long retreat, set in a quiet beautiful French village, we are going to explore as friends and co-travellers such fundamental questions of our day to day life in a non-authoritarian and affectionate atmosphere. The entire day will include introductory talks, existential dialogues and shared inquiry into self-knowing, experiment with silent observation and listening, long walks in nature, simple yoga exercises and meditation. The primary intention is that our entire day becomes a meditative process so that we can allow our minds and hearts to open up for the unknown, for our inherent goodness, trust, love and quest for truth.

Hi Jack

The above extract is taken from the main page where in some one posted about the proposed retreat in France . The above entire content is from courtesy the convenor of the programme . I just happened to start reading to see what it is and felt it is exactly appropriate an answer to the query you raised of me . Well this forum might not be providing the atmosphere of retreat .. But nevertheless we all have the common goal of exploring our lives and understanding what K passionately talked of spending sixty years of his life time .

Topic: * Sun, 22 Jan 2017

Posts 83 & 90 by Jack

So Jack , in other words according to you there should be a different , soft , gentle atmosphere where in one can go on inquiring about what K pointed out uninterrupted . And you had given plenty of examples as to how Jean is the main source of disruption by addressing him in hundreds of posts since a very long time . And also you feel the world order is going down hill because of Trumps or Bushes or of some reason or the other ....

Well just to go back to the times of K , who was a witness to the worst kind of destruction , holocaust humanity had ever faced ; The two world wars . Had he followed ' our ' standards , he should not have done anything . He should have taken the way of condemning , cursing and putting the blame on the entire human race and should have retired to the Himalayas or some other mountain ranges and should have lived his life peacefully .

I think in the past when this forum used to be busy with lot of participants , we all had discussed endlessly about the peripheral issues of the teaching . But when one had realized the main thrust and focus of the teaching is not in endless discussions but in understanding oneself ... If at all one had to study , observe anything , it is the study of oneself in relation to others , every thing around ; every idea , opinion , view point , mind set which one had gathered in due course of ones life and experiences . May be that's the reason not many participants are seen these days in the forum . I think you too agree with me that unless and until one had examined every aspect of human existence , going till the roots of it ; either ones beliefs in Gods or in any other religions or about the present day world conditions etc one should not and cannot come to any understanding . That is the first lesson I understood from the teaching . And not to make any body , not even K to be an authority .... And the real inquiry sets in facing the most difficult aspects of ones personality and ones life ....

May be you can start asking ' why this aspect of personality of this character called Jean had such an influence on you , and there is a strong possibility that this may be only one side of the person and you are being taken for a ride by his other many more sides where in he / she is coming out with more intelligent and polished versions of posts .... wonder if you had ever given a thought about it

Topic: * Fri, 20 Jan 2017

Jack : Have you ever discovered anything for yourself? Or do you just memorize quotes?

Sorry to say nothing 'new ' comes form you either Jack .i think all most everyone and to some extent Jean himself might have forgotten about his earlier mission ( if at all there is one ) of excessive repeated posts with no sense of inquiry etc ... but you simply cannot make do with your constant focus on attending to his posts and coming out with repeated critical comments which I feel are waste of time . Wonder if this is all one has to / got to do with this gift ! The gift of coming in contact with this marvelous teaching and in your case you are one of the fortunate persons who met K in your life time and heard him directly .

Topic: Meeting with Eva Wed, 11 Jan 2017

Hi Dhirendra

Good to see your post and the picture and wonderful thoughts too.

Topic: Clive aren't you being presumptous? Tue, 27 Dec 2016

Hi Jack

Well it's indeed a relief to see no angry words and reactions against what I had written in your post :)

and thanks for using ' gentle ' and ' friendly ' words :)

( polite expression and friendly attitude does matter a lot. isn't it? ) how polite , patient and considerate K used to be all through his discussions and talks with people, we all are aware .

I do have respect for your ' passion ' for K teaching Jack and very often I used to admire your writing style and I remember conveying that much to you in our previous interactions .

Well I do not want to spoil your holiday or journey mood by prolonging this discussion any more Jack and wish both you your wife safe trip and a very good new year ahead . But this much I would like to say whatever you had written about ' organized religion ' may well be very right in its place ... No disagreement on that . But making generalizations or taking even K's words as ultimate do not make much sense , isn't it ? And the real ' inquiry ' is in what way each one of us are affected, and if so how can we ' discern ' one thing from the other ... And as you had already mentioned there are not many people who are the true followers of Christianity and I can say the same about ' Hinduism '.

And as such man is hassled and haggled with much much more deeper problems and our modern day world and our complex societies throwing new problems dime a dozen every day ... And the real question may be as K used to say ' how can one deal with all that ?' And the answer also always used to come back on 'oneself ' only when one 'understands' oneself and 'changes' ... then only there can be solutions and answers ... Isn't 'that' the K texts exhort ? Looks like I'm not sticking to my point of not discussing and not prolonging ... but any how these thoughts you can keep for the road may be .... :)

Happy new year and safe trip once again Jack.

Topic: Clive aren't you being presumptous? Tue, 27 Dec 2016

Jack : "If you can't see these obvious examples of conditioning which appear harmless how can you ever see much deeper into how your mind, your thinking is conditioned? "

Can you see for yourself Jack how much deeper your mind and thinking is conditioned ? And yes it's certainly easy to read about few facts and figures and forming judgements about any issue unde the sun and to advice , speak about another . But to speak about oneself , observe , study ... Is the most difficult work isn't it ? No less authoritative you are sounding in your posts in response to Ken. And so often you admonishing people at your will and whim dismissing their posts as if you have become an authority on what K pointed out . It looks you have made an image in your brain of what K pointed out and by all means you need to defend that image ... It's indeed pity you always come out with posts of inconsequential issues and show your expertise . But the extraordinary work of K which is the study of 'oneself ' as one represents the entire humanity is sadly missing in your posts .

The thrust on ' inquiry ' ' dying to the known ' seeing and acknowledging the qualities of anger, hurt, desire, attachment, jealousy, and so much more which is composite mass of human being and our common human condition ... which comprises the k teaching is not much inquired into .

I very well remember appreciating your posts when you used to deal firmly with the voices of trolls,and various other people who do not know what they are writing . But you are not observing and not even wondering the changes in people . lot of people have moved on ... But again seeing anything is possible only when we ourselves keep a check if and whether we are looking from the past images made by our brains.

( I'm quite sure this post is not to your liking and you will come out with most angry terminology . But well all these points are very much in my mind since long and thought might as well express them )

Topic: Interpretation and Expertise Fri, 18 Nov 2016

Ok Jack you can keep on going at whatever you have to say , write about the other fellow posters in whatever lingo you feel like writing , and may be it's entirely your business ... But in a sad way it gives out about oneself . More than making a church of K' s written word and acting as a guardian angel to written words .... I feel it's far more important to examine , investigate and go into ones own feelings of irritability, anger, deep rooted hidden fears and desires ... Which according to my understanding is at the core of K teaching .

Talking about grave incongruities that exist every day in and out all around us ... Most despised candidate I think all most the world over became the president of your country . And in here in our country .. our favorite and most meaningful prime minister after many long long years is becoming in famous because of the recent measure he had undertaken of 'demonetizing ' currency to clean up the entire political, social systems. More than two thirds of Indian population that lives in rural areas are the people facing extreme problems. and according to some news reports already 40 people lost their lives in this whole chaos .

Topic: Interpretation and Expertise Fri, 18 Nov 2016

Hi Jack

Wonder if I can put forward few thoughts that crossed my mind after reading the content of this thread .

Positive, constructive criticism done in good taste taking into cognizance of the entirety of the work, activity of any poster , I feel are always welcome . Though there is some merit in what you are referring to John raica's efforts of interpreting K' s texts is very inappropriate and all that .. But as Dan clarified in the beginning of the thread as to John 's intentions of what he is doing and all that ... many a time John himself made clear his position as to what he is up to is entirely for his own sake .

But anyhow understanding K is never going by words no ? It's ' reading between lines ' and resonating well with what's being read , and most importantly how far one is capable of looking at ' ones own self ' determines how ' serious ' one is for ones own ' work ' on oneself .

As my understanding of the teaching of all these years goes ... It's very difficult to acknowledge and see ones patterns , habits and mind sets that had been formed over the years ( conditioning ) and very easy to point fingers at others .

Ok my above post is not meant to take stand by John Raica and point finger at you . I do read the texts he posts very patiently sorting them out and all that , but when I had to use the text material I too very patiently delete the bracketed words and use them . And I'm aware of my limitations of expression as English is not my mother tongue.

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