Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Patricia Hemingway's Forum Activity | 2295 posts in 13 forums


Forum: General Discussion Wed, 23 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

One Self wrote: Never mind

You were asked to provide an example. If you cannot do this - just say so.

Your opinion of who may or may not have understood K is simply that - opinion. And as such - none of my business. Opinion is only ever about the person having it - nothing at all to do with who it is aimed at. Have you not seen that?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 24 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

We see the world of hate taking its harvest at the present. This world of hate has been created by our fathers and their forefathers and by us. Thus ignorance stretches indefinitely into the past. It has not come into being by itself. It is the outcome of human ignorance, a historical process, isn’t it? We as individuals have cooperated with our ancestors, who, with their forefathers, set going this process of hate, fear, greed, and so on. Now, as individuals, we partake of this world of hate so long as we, individually, indulge in it. The world, then, is an extension of yourself. If you, as an individual, desire to destroy hate, then you as an individual must cease hating. To destroy hate, you must dissociate yourself from hate in all its gross and subtle forms, and so long as you are caught up in it you are part of that world of ignorance and fear. Then the world is an extension of yourself, yourself duplicated and multiplied. The world does not exist apart from the individual. It may exist as an idea, as a state, as a social organization, but to carry out that idea, to make that social or religious organization function, there must be the individual. His ignorance, his greed, and his fear maintain the structure of ignorance, greed, and hate. If the individual changes, can he affect the world, the world of hate, greed, and so on?... The world is an extension of yourself so long as you are thoughtless, caught up in ignorance, hate, greed, but when you are earnest, thoughtful and aware, there is not only a dissociation from those ugly causes that create pain and sorrow, but also in that understanding there is a completeness, a wholeness.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 24 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

We see the world of hate taking its harvest at the present. This world of hate has been created by our fathers and their forefathers and by us. Thus ignorance stretches indefinitely into the past. It has not come into being by itself. It is the outcome of human ignorance, a historical process, isn’t it? We as individuals have cooperated with our ancestors, who, with their forefathers, set going this process of hate, fear, greed, and so on. Now, as individuals, we partake of this world of hate so long as we, individually, indulge in it. The world, then, is an extension of yourself. If you, as an individual, desire to destroy hate, then you as an individual must cease hating. To destroy hate, you must dissociate yourself from hate in all its gross and subtle forms, and so long as you are caught up in it you are part of that world of ignorance and fear. Then the world is an extension of yourself, yourself duplicated and multiplied. The world does not exist apart from the individual. It may exist as an idea, as a state, as a social organization, but to carry out that idea, to make that social or religious organization function, there must be the individual. His ignorance, his greed, and his fear maintain the structure of ignorance, greed, and hate. If the individual changes, can he affect the world, the world of hate, greed, and so on?... The world is an extension of yourself so long as you are thoughtless, caught up in ignorance, hate, greed, but when you are earnest, thoughtful and aware, there is not only a dissociation from those ugly causes that create pain and sorrow, but also in that understanding there is a completeness, a wholeness.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 27 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Jack Pine wrote: Look around you. Look at the world. It's not just you who must change. The world is being destroyed by all of us doing what we have always done. Feeling as we have always felt and not wanting to change.

Jack Pine wrote: Why should we change?

If there is a 'right question' that is the area in which to discover it. And it is exactly the reason for posting #139 in this thread. (And the earlier one which was of course ignored - therefore repeated.)

There seems to be a lot of wishing for 'change' because it will be better for 'me' - a happier more contented 'me'. A misinterpretation of the teaching of K which is pontificated upon endlessly.

Where is the overall passion for taking responsibility, and finding out first-hand everything about the depth of the disorder of humanity - for the insanity of human beings that destroys this beautiful earth?

Thank you Jack. And Paul - looking for the 'right question' is a myth unless it has its root in deep disorder, and the human (our) responsibility for it. We humans have been playing around on the surface forever - the "what's in it for 'me' or 'I' am not interested" game.

As Jack said: Look around you. Do you (me or anyone) understand the seriousness of what is taking place NOW?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 27 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Paul Dimmock wrote: It has its roots in our relationship. Our relationship may be in deep disorder or it may not be, but that's where the questions arise.

Paul - 'our relationship' with what? Each other? For the most part human relationship is a whole bunch of images banging around to see who can come out top of the heap. That is not relationship.

Relationship with the planet perhaps? We are destroying it.

Relationship with all the creatures on the earth? We kill and consume them. Or just kill them anyway - for entertainment.

Relationship with the the marvellous living and breathing trees? We clear-fell them.

Relationship with our waterways and oceans? We pollute it all with our rubbish.

Relationship with the air we breathe? We pollute that also - to fulfil our desires.

If you want to talk about relationship lets start there. Responsibility Paul.

Unless we act from the fact of the havoc we human beings create, how can there ever be 'relationship'?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 28 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Patricia Hemingway wrote: our relationship' with what? Each other? For the most part human relationship is a whole bunch of images banging around to see who can come out top of the heap. That is not relationship.

Relationship with the planet perhaps? We are destroying it.

Relationship with all the creatures on the earth? We kill and consume them. Or just kill them anyway - for entertainment.

Relationship with the the marvellous living and breathing trees? We clear-fell them.

Relationship with our waterways and oceans? We pollute it all with our rubbish.

Relationship with the air we breathe? We pollute that also - to fulfil our desires.

If you want to talk about relationship lets start there. Responsibility Paul.

Unless we act from the fact of the havoc we human beings create, how can there ever be 'relationship'?

We ARE all that. That IS relationship. Relationship with the whole.

Staying stuck in the personal:

Paul Dimmock wrote:

Do you have any image of me?

is to continue in the pattern of 'self'. To perpetuate it further. It may be comfortable, and make one feel good to pontificate endlessly upon one'self', and what everyone else thinks about one'self', and to express our opinions about every other 'self', but as K said 'the house is burning' - while we continue to 'self'-righteously and publicly contemplate our navels.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 29 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Paul Dimmock wrote: But the house is you. It starts with you. And you are all the images you have of the world and of yourself. You are burning with images

Patricia Hemingway wrote: We ARE all that.

Did you not read what was written above Paul?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 29 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

One Self wrote: If there was no Krishnamurti we ten people who regularly post comments in here would have nothing to talk about together. Is that not interesting how intellectually poor we ten people are?

That is a personal statement One Self - therefore you speak for yourself.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 30 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Jack Pine wrote: So why respond?

Jack. Because I can. Because sometimes things are just so stupid they require a reasonable response. Where have you been all my (Kinfonet) life Jack? :)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 31 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Paul Dimmock wrote: I want to start very close, that's all. I want to start with you and me. Do we have images of one another? Apparently you have the image of me that I want everybody to repeat my question without any answer. That is not what I want. I want to enquire with someone, anyone, hopefully with you. But when we are all starting from answers and solutions, all starting so far away in abstractions, it makes enquiry and dialogue quite impossible. We are all that. Agreed. So how are we two, you and I who are all that, how are we to begin together? All of that mess is you and me; the core of the whole mess is nowhere else. It may manifest in social decay and environmental disaster; but it has its roots in you and me, in this relationship. I don't know why we are even arguing about this. Surely it is quite obvious.

There is only one thing to add before this little black duck disappears again.

I have visited this discussion forum for about twenty years, back to when it was the old Kinfonet.

K said that in serious inquiry one inevitably moves from the personal to the general to the universal.

The only reason I return is to discover anyone at all who has moved beyond the personal. And guess what?

The same old same old disappearing up one's own rhetoric. Making 'thought' the demon without any understanding of what its place is. Doctrinizing the teaching of K - never bothering to find out first-hand, and in action not words - the living truth of what he pointed out.

It is difficult to believe that the deeply beautiful and truthfully insightful teaching of K can have morphed into such a selfish, self-fulfilling dogma, such as is spouted on Kinfonet. It is a great shame. Just words words and more words - signifying nothing at all. No glimmer of understanding. No responsibility. No passion for truth.

No movement from the personal even to the general - let alone the universal.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 31 Jan 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Wim Opdam wrote: My hope is that those words are not an expression of despair or disappointment and that exceptions are allowed.

They are not an expression of despair Wim. And it is not to judge anyone personally - we are all the same brain after all.

And yes - on an internet forum there are only words. But there is a comfortable rut that the brain gets stuck in - all the while believing that this is where the change is. Change can only come about in action - not in the same repeated over-and-over words and puzzlings.

Still love you.

Love you too Wim, along with all the inquirers and friends discovered on Kinfonet over the many years.

But perhaps the forum has seen its better days. Now that the self (in society) rules supreme, words just don't cut it anymore.

If the teaching of K is not functioning in every moment, in every action, of every day - if one does not pick it up and embrace it and run with it, and allow it to manifest as it will (as truth) in everyday life, then it has no meaning.

But the self is too impressed with its own invention (of self) to allow any truth to manifest. The self prefers to personally attack other selfs, and feel better for doing so. The self is standing in its own way. Simple as that. Because as K said: Where you are, the other is not.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Feb 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Dear Jack - your logic and honesty is valued, at least by this human being, who always takes the time to read what you write on here.

It is important to bring reality back into the discussion when it drifts off into banalities about 'love', and subjective opinions about 'clarity' and 'togetherness'. Thank you.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Feb 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

One Self wrote: Jack leading others in here is like a blind man leading other blind men (or woman) to light.:-)

Who said anything about 'leading'?

Perhaps only an dedicated follower would make such an assumption out of what was stated.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Feb 2019
Topic: Can we ask the right question?

Wim Opdam wrote: the forum is overloaded with nonsense from this person behind 'one self' and should be contradicted.

It is indeed Wim. But all one can really do though is to see it as an excellent example of delusion. Delusion and subjective thinking personified.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 21 Feb 2019
Topic: What is passion?

Paul Dimmock wrote: That's why I think it is best that we start with ourselves, with looking our own passions.

Can deep and true passion be 'owned'? Does not the self stand in the way of genuine passion manifesting?

Passion - like love - surely cannot be subjective.

Therefore genuine passion necessarily manifests only when the self/thought/ego - (call it what you will) - ENDS.