Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Patricia Hemingway's Forum Activity | 2313 posts in 13 forums


Forum: General Discussion Tue, 20 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

dhirendra singh wrote: Where? where are we divided?

Obviously - in the belief that we are each individual. And then we believe that all the 'individuals' will unite and there will be 'peace on earth'.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 21 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

David Loucks wrote: Has anyone noticed that the Feedback Forum has been renamed the "Lounge"? Dev's got a pretty good sense of humor.

Yes - appropriate title, is it not? I had a gentle chuckle. :D

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 22 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

David Loucks wrote: Or is meditation something much more as it was for K? An ongoing process, a constant awareness, moment by moment, of one in relationship to everything and everyone that comes into one's life?

Yes - a contemplative life.

Staying with fear as it arises, embracing it, understanding it. Watching one's critical thoughts about others, and seeing that they are there because of the un-faced realization that 'I' am no different deep-down. Observing the total disorder functioning in humanity and understanding that I AM that disorder - the conflict that exists is ME.

There is no escape in this manner of meditation - no pleasure - no flying off to some imagined 'higher plane' for a bit of respite from the troubled world of humanity's despair, to a place where 'I' feel really good about 'me' for a while.

Rather it is a total owning of the human despair, and the finding out of what actually comes about as understanding of the wholeness of the human condition manifests, and there is just no longer any choice. And there can be no pre-emption of what that is. One can only take the plunge - go there and find out.

Meditation: deep pondering.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 22 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: All the thoughts coming to my mind about humanity,are they not escape from observing my thoughts of my life choicelessly ? Please show connection.

Sunil - the connection is that I am/you are humanity. There is no moving away from that. It is a fact - like it or not.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 22 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

One can sit and navel-gaze about one's 'individual' problems until the cows come home. But unless one is embracing the wholeness of humanity, and the mess we are all in together, and the responsibility for such - meditation is nothing more than a selfish and futile temporary escape from what is.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 22 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

ganesan balachandran wrote: "We should go from the particular to the general and from the general to the universal"

Yes - that is one way in which K expressed the need to move away from the selfish wish to make a 'better' self - or to heal the self - through meditation.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: If I ask how then you might reply there is no 'how'. Then what is the way for this understanding to come ?

Yes - there is no how. When the brain is conditioned to see itself as 'precious individual' - unless that conditioning is understood and negated, there is no embracing the wholeness of humanity.

The truth of anything will not be seen while conditioning, psychological thought and opinion stand in the way of truth manifesting. Simple as that.

Observation can clarify how the self - the movement of the self (which is not personal) - operates. Negation closes down some of its escapes.

But psychological thought will fight like a wildcat to stay in control, if deeply and seriously challenged - even to the point of bringing on physical illness. (As K found out)

So what we are talking about - what K spoke of - is not some nice easy escape from mankind's disorders.

The physical body has been ruled for thousands of years by psychological control. Freeing the natural intelligence of the physical body to the point where it can act independently, after all those accumulated years of psychological destruction? - well, just understand the immensity of what we are looking at here. And then you will understand why K gave no simple "how" to do it.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 23 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

Paul Davidson wrote: It is very easy to say 'I am the world', but K would have called this parroting his words. My intellect appreciates the beauty of K's statement and from that intellectual appreciation of the beauty I sometimes notice that imagination runs away with the idea that I have understood it. This is how I notice that a deception is taking place.

Paul - Yes - imagination is the enemy to attention and understanding.

Paul Davidson wrote: K says that the whole being must get it, thoroughly and deeply in such a way that a transformation of being occurs. So, what is stopping us from getting it at that level? What is stopping it? What is stopping the understanding (not merely intellectual) from coming?

Isn't it that deep down we are conditioned to believe in the importance of our own 'individuality'? Which means that psychological thought is in control, and what is more - intends to stay in control.

So it is the desire to keep our individuality, and change our'selves' while remaining individuals (but more important individuals because we will be 'transformed' ones!) - rather than ENDING individuality - ie: ending the self?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 24 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

dhirendra singh wrote: Or may believe that 'I' individually will enjoy bliss and peace and will win the race of enlightenment;)

You got it Dhirendra! :)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 24 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: What does it mean when you say that movement of self is not personal ? Self is active in me to give me security and look after my interests. Then how it is not personal ?

Isn't 'self' acting in exactly the same manner in everyone else also?

Therefore it is a general movement of the self - not a personal/individual one. It is common to all. Makes it a lot less 'desirable' at least! :)

Seriously - don't we value 'self' because we believe it to be unique to 'ME'?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 24 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: PS- In some other thread you said that right diet is very important in this journey. Please talk about that a bit more.

This really is something that one has to work out for oneself.

But there is no doubt that an austere, pure vegetable/fruit diet does not feed (any further) psychological thought.

Research indicates that meat-eating promotes aggression. It certainly de-sensitizes the body, and the mind, because one shuts out the suffering and fear of the sentient creatures bred to feed this human desire. The human body does not require meat to live a healthy life - in fact evidence suggests that most disease is the direct result of meat ingestion.

Alcohol damages the brain and body, as do drugs.

So really - it is just common sense and constant observation about the effect of what is ingested. (For example - although a long-time vegetarian, I occasionally ate cheese. I noticed that this would be followed by dreaming at night - so it seemed that cheese and dairy products sparked psychological imagination, which the brain then had to try to put in order during sleep. No more dairy products - no more dreams. Now we live a vegan life, and are much healthier for it in every way)

But there is no point in listening to another about these matters - the only thing that makes any sense is to go into it oneself and find out first-hand. As with everything else.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 24 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

ganesan balachandran wrote: Here before retiring to bed, people drink milk to get a good sleep.

What's the bet that they dream the night away?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: The general movement has special/personal contents which make my 'self' special, personal and very desirable for me.:-)

And therein lies the depth of the problem as to why so few understand - or even wish to understand fully - the teaching of Krishnamurti.

The 'self' is valued for its 'individuality'.

And the teaching is about negation of self.

Ne'er the twain shall meet!

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

dhirendra singh wrote: Do you not feel pity of this, that a K-reader is searching answer from others? This indicates that we are not serious!

Not at all.

This forum is a chance to put oneself on the line and to meet any challenges that come from what one has said. This keeps the brain sharp, and clarifies - for oneself - what one is saying. There is nothing at all wrong with that.

Also, it is a safe environment in which to do this. No-one is able to kill you because they disagree strongly and feel terribly threatened by what is said, no matter how much someone might wish to! The only thing that you, me, or anyone else can personally attack is an image. Perfect!

Or - at best - what is actually said can be intelligently challenged and debated.

And there is nothing at all wrong with having a sharp, logical, concise brain. K would never have made his immense breakthrough without that. :)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

dhirendra singh wrote: Keeping the brain sharp = Becoming/improvement

Not at all - it is dealing with 'what is' technically! Nothing psychological about a sharp brain.

Becoming is ONLY psychological.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

Huguette Milberg wrote: Do you realize that you are responding not with logic and reason to what has actually been said but only with mockery and personal attack?

Ah Huguette - unfortunately logic has been, for the most part, dismissed on here.

So of course there is only mockery and personal attack left, when debate and inquiry does not have its ground in pure - non-psychological - logic.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Is the teaching of K about 'bringing significant benefits into (individual) lives'?

Read on David. It is much more about discovery of what is at the root of human disorder, and one's true responsibility in that.

There are plenty of 'feel-good' gurus. K is definitely not one of them.

And the 'mental state' can really expect to have its cage well and truly rattled by the teaching of K if one is at all serious - and guess what? No longer will one fit comfortably into 'modern social groups' - whatever they may be!

But then - who would want to succeed in a corrupt society anyway?

The question really is: Are you discontent? Or satisfied with the human condition as it is? And the answer is in the question.

So welcome David!

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

dhirendra singh wrote: We are talking in psychological field, why you assume that these debate are non-psychological?

I assume nothing.

But for me, debate and inquiry is based in logic, and therefore not motivated by psychological desire or personal attack.

What you choose as ground for inquiry is your problem Dhirendra.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

Huguette Milberg wrote: As I see it, without time, measure and knowledge, we could not live.

Yes. In their place - in the technical - time, measure and knowledge are essential to life. As is memory.

But out of place - in the psychological - memory, time, measure and knowledge creates comparison, competition, image-making, and general chaos. It really is that simple, as observation will reveal.

Thank you Huguette. And welcome back.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: Or "where the self is, the Other is not" is what you are saying ?

Well - K actually said that.

But yes, that is understood. It is at the ground of K's teaching.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: In both cases,is it not the interaction of teaching/The Other/Truth that transforms the self ? This may be incorrect but no harm in asking even a wrong question.:-)

Dear Sunil -

Wrong questions speak for themselves eventually - so no harm at all.

Is it preemptive to reach a conclusion of exactly what 'transforms the self'.

Didn't K speak of human transformation through self-awareness and observation?

Was K referring to a 'better' self? Or something else altogether?

Can one find out first-hand by going there? And what does that action demand?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

RICK LEIN wrote: Negation?

Certainly that. But go deeper Rick.

Deeply - does it not require one's very life? But then, what is life for?

If one sees the responsibility for human disorder - there really is no choice, is there?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

dhirendra singh wrote: You claim that you have understood, well have you ever read these kind of divisional sentence in K-dialog "it is your problem"?

What? Now you want someone to make your decisions for you?

The fact of the matter is that the ground you choose for inquiry is YOUR decision - YOUR problem. No one will do it for you. And K claimed the 'ground must be prepared'.

Just stating a fact! Perhaps you are not fond of facts? :)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

Huguette Milberg wrote: Are you trying to confuse me?

Just rather confused unfortunately. (Sorry - I do prefer not to relate in images - but really! Poor old Dhirendra does just keep disappearing up his own rhetoric!)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

You left the best bit out of the quote: 'does just keep disappearing up his own rhetoric'.

Read back over your postings - perhaps you will then understand what is said.

And try a little logic!

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

dhirendra singh wrote: Do you remember when you last spoken without image? It was almost 50000 years before! hard to remember too old thing;)

No sorry - that isn't logic!

And you may have a problem with age - I do not.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 25 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

dhirendra singh wrote: Thought always seek logic, you call logical a thing which suit you, but logic is not different from thought!

Therein lies the reason for all your confusion. So may you have many happy years, as you continue to disappear up your own rhetoric! :D

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 28 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

sunil jain wrote: I feel he referred to ending of self.

So - ending what most believe is exactly what distinguishes one from the rest of humanity?

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 28 Jul 2010
Topic: What is Meditation?

Eve Goodmon wrote: Yup it is me back from the dead and it looks like I missed nothing :) everyone still meditating? Is it possible to end all conditioned response? Is it possible to end the image? Or just being aware of its existence frees you? Tricky thing this image, which is me, hard to tell if there is anything but image?

Hi Eve - happy you are back. Shake up the complacency a bit here. :)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 31 Jul 2010
Topic: hating Religion

Randal Shacklett wrote: You have been taking logic lessons from patriciah, haven't you? ;o)

Oh please Randal - all this personal spewing of hatred about religion has nothing at all to do with logic. How ignorant can you be?