Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Patricia Hemingway's Forum Activity | 2306 posts in 13 forums


Forum: Serious Debate Wed, 16 Sep 2009
Topic: Can justice be enforced from outside?

max greene wrote: Pretty discouraging, Patricia. There's only one thing we can do: worry.

Dear Max - worry is useless! It will only harm and dull the sharpness of the brain.

The only thing one can do is see the fact of what is going on and allow that fact to act.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Wed, 16 Sep 2009
Topic: Classic Conditioning

max greene wrote: You say , "Emotions are thoughts. . . " What about this: Emotions are right brain "thoughts," equivalent to the left brain thoughts. But they are both thoughts. So as thoughts they are both rather neutral--they are just there, a product of observation--until the thought of the "I" is super-imposed on them and becomes entangled with them.

Max - why further complicate thought with left and right-brain ownership? Quite simply - there is thought in place in the technical (as a bird would build a nest or a human create a shelter) and completely out of place in the psychological - where a self desires to be 'better-off' than another.

All thought can do is measure. In the technical world - in building a shelter - measurement is in its place - useful. In the psychological world of imagery, thought measures its 'self' against another 'self' - comparison - competition - war.

The body requires shelter and sustenance - and there are technical means to provide that. Only a 'self' wishes to be 'better' than someone else - and that is desire - not need.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 17 Sep 2009
Topic: Classic Conditioning

max greene wrote: But as I said, are we willing to give up, with the "I," Beethoven, Van Gogh, et.al? Even K remarked more than once that we lack "passion." I would interpret this "passion" as deep feeling--and isn't this emotion? What is the place of emotion in all of this? I think Phil has the idea that emotion might be conditioning. I haven't read his last post so here I go.

Max - one can be passionate about great music and all great art - be deeply inspired by it - without bringing emotion into it at all. Music and art can deeply touch feelings, but emotion comes about only when one desires to take it out of the moment and invent an experience around it - build a self with it - create an image with it - carry an emotional memory about it.

For me, the line between feeling/passion and emotion is very clear. But I suppose it all comes down to definition. Emotion is not a friend - it is an indulgence. Passion exists only in any given moment - emotion lingers and creates/reinforces time and self.

Phil - Yes - we are conditioned to embrace emotion as a friend. Human beings are far more controllable if we are emotional. A human being who exists only in the moment is impossible for the system to control. Look at K.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 17 Sep 2009
Topic: Classic Conditioning

max greene wrote: It is a deep feeling, and I am not aware of the "I" at all at the moment. I define that as strong emotion. You call it passion.

Yes - when the "I" is absent there is only the passion. Emotion has to 'owned', indulged in - therefore requires a 'self' to exist at all.

And don't forget the etymological definition of the word 'emotion': Agitation of the brain (or mind). Emotion is disturbance to any possibility of stillness.

But again - it is all a question of definition. And K - bless his heart - did re-define many of the terms he used over his long life, which is fair enough. And it challenges us to go and find out for ourselves anyway - which is what he always claimed had to be the fact of it: don't follow - discover! But discover without the self standing in the way of the truth.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Mon, 21 Sep 2009
Topic: Classic Conditioning

Therese Okamoto wrote: emotion is the expression of a feeling, do you recommend keeping them all to yourself?

Why attach thought as ownership to feelings? Without thought there is only the pure feeling - and the brain is not agitated. No memories. No comparisons. Simply feeling.

'The expression of a feeling'? Why does a feeling need to be 'expressed'? - and by whom? Emotion is only the psychological owning of a feeling, to further feed the 'self' upon.

But I suppose one has to see the fact of all this for oneself, and that only comes about by understanding the movement of thought - as K so often said.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Mon, 21 Sep 2009
Topic: Classic Conditioning

Galaxy Eh wrote: Frankly conditioning is not that important. It really does not matter whether one is conditioned or not. Question is are you sensitive to everything. Do you have the native intelligence capacity to completely respond to daily challenges.

That is an interesting point. Everyone is conditioned, so it could be that dwelling on one's own particular conditioning is pretty much akin to 'analysis' - and it closes out the bigger picture by putting the emphasis on the self and its importance. Is that your meaning?

Isn't it also important to understand the manner in which conditioning generally controls and keeps people in their place within society?

Forum: Insights Thu, 01 Oct 2009
Topic: Honestly

Paul Dimmock wrote: But I did say if we are looking together. And that's the problem, because we don't do it. We are not together. Now why not? Why don't we start there and then move, which will be freedom? It will be freedom because we are both starting from a place where there is order in our relationship. Not an order imposed from outside, or suggested by either you or me, but order in our relationship.

Isn't this invention of a dogma Paul? Aren't you endeavoring to invent a path to 'freedom' with a little game of 'follow the leader' and fake 'togetherness'? Some may be fooled - but not all.

Why create havoc in the wake of K's teaching with such theories, which all seem to be based on the idea of a 'leader'? The only place they lead is to further and multiplied confusion. Are you aware that these little games and puzzles only entertain a dull and confused brain? There seem to be a few people who really get off on them, and perhaps you believe you are 'helping'?

However, what you spout here has nothing at all to do with the truth that K pointed towards. Rather, it is 'self'-promoting - through entertainment, and inventing a false belief that 'we are really getting somewhere because we are all together!' Truth is not defined or controlled by popular opinion, is it?

Forum: Insights Thu, 01 Oct 2009
Topic: Honestly

Hermann Janzen wrote: "Being together" says Paul implies freedom. Doesn't it?

Where does that piece of doctrine come from? It appears to imply that if you all get together and agree, you will invent 'freedom'.

Isn't that what religions have always believed? That popular opinion will define 'truth'? Paul is playing the same game with that quoted statement.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Tue, 06 Oct 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Robert Michael wrote: Why may I ask would any teacher create a teaching that "was too much for the generation that directly received it?"

K didn't 'create a teaching' - he pointed to the truth of the human condition. If his fellow human beings had/have not laid the ground to go there and find out the truth for themselves, that is hardly the fault of the one who pointed.

You seem to suggest that truth must be made palatable for the masses, and then there will be 'success'. But quite simply - if truth is made palatable and easily acceptable, it is no longer truth, now is it?

So if one has not laid the ground to enter and see the reality of truth as it IS - don't kill the messenger! K did not get it wrong. The ones who do get it wrong are those who seek security for the 'self' in the words of Krishnamurti, and then blame him upon discovering there is no security or easy path there. And those who - like you Bob - have some ridiculous belief that some kind of desired 'enlightenment' should come about through osmosis - as in:

Robert Michael wrote: Had Krishnamurti fully reached the "ground", and was thereby a genuine living embodiment of the "source of all energy", he would have died with a body of radically transformed people surrounding him.

Sorry - WRONG! K was responsible only for his own understanding of the human condition. Those 'surrounding him' - and those of us here - are responsible for theirs/ours.

And those in K's wake who attempt to use his teaching to promote their own agenda of 'leadership to enlightenment' are completely deluded!

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Wed, 07 Oct 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Robert Michael wrote: Obviously you are not enlightened Patricia. If you were you would fully realize that truly enlightened beings MUST completely and at all costs devote or give their lives to the Truth and the awakening of their fellows. And this is not a choice that we make. It goes with the territory, or comes with the gift.

Just replace "enlightened" with "deluded" Bob! :D

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 08 Oct 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Robert Michael wrote: Sooner or later your envy and bitterness always seem to rear their ugly heads, Patricia, and you wind up telling on yourself.

The ego does love to believe that it is being envied.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 08 Oct 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

French Touch wrote: If you think you can't do better than K, you live under his authority in delusion.

That is a nonsense statement. Do 'better'? What does that mean? Is it a competition? A 'race to enlightenment' perhaps?

K pointed constantly to the fact of humanity's disorder. One either sees the fact of it for oneself, or one does not.

There is no 'living under K's authority'. As K himself said - the only authority is the truth itself. And regardless of all opinions about what that may be - in the end, truth is what we are confronted with, one way or another. And truth is all K was ever on about. Truth is not what humans desire to hear however, and that is why nobody understood K.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Fri, 09 Oct 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

French Touch - your posting above makes no sense at all. Is it 'intelligence' that makes such a mess of the quotations?

French Touch wrote: I am sorry to learn that you did not understand K. I did.

Quite clearly from what you say - you did not! Never mind! Perhaps you will one day!

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Mon, 12 Oct 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Yes - I do understand that we are the same French Touch. And I do not mind provocation at all. One can give as good as one gets! :)

About the quotations: It just was not clear in your posting who was being quoted, and when the quote began and ended. But then - it was intended to provoke! :)

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Wed, 14 Oct 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Bob - you only ever quote the very early teaching of K, when in fact what he was getting at is at its most clear in the final years of his life - once he had refined the teaching to its most austere and basic essence.

Forum: Insights Sat, 17 Oct 2009
Topic: Honestly

Paul Dimmock wrote: It may very well be possible to be nothing in this forum. Why should one have to be something here? If it is not that easy to be nothing, then why not? Again, what is it that tells you that you are something? To me this is a much more interesting question. What does it mean to be something? Does it actually have any meaning at all? And while it has meaning then the word 'nothing' will always be viewed with suspicion, with hope, with belief or disbelief, but always from the perspective of being something. But why be something? Why be anything? Rather than me explain what it means to be nothing, can you explain what it means to be something?

Would this be disappearing up one's own rhetoric Paul?

Forum: Awareness in our world today Sat, 24 Oct 2009
Topic: Under total awareness, fear changed into bravery&courage

Prasanna P wrote: I feel simplifying human psychology is far more vital and essential to mankind than most other works of research that are underway.

Forget 'simplifying human psychology'. It is a myth - so end it!

Forum: Awareness in our world today Fri, 30 Oct 2009
Topic: Will there be fruit from the seed of K's Teaching

Prasanna P wrote: I think, some day some one who has read K, would advance it further to make it effective.

Truth - which is what K pointed towards - is already 'effective'.

To 'advance' truth would only be to pollute it, which is a fruitless and deceptive effort to make it more palatable.

And it seems there are a few contenders for the position of 'polluter of truth' around here. Certainly it is easier to pollute the truth than to face the fact of it. :)

Forum: Awareness in our world today Fri, 30 Oct 2009
Topic: Will there be fruit from the seed of K's Teaching

mike christani wrote: In other words, don't blame the teachings, and above all don't claim the poor masses need someone more understandable.

My point exactly Mike. It is all there - K has pointed to truth, and those who cannot go there and find out for themselves not only desire to blame K for their own inadequacies, but believe they can give the truth a more agreeable veneer which will mean that now everyone will 'follow' them instead!

Just observe how conditioned humans are to have a 'leader'! One who will 'advance' the teaching (truth) for us! Make it nice and easy perhaps? Well - it just isn't! It is all there in the teaching - nothing more needs to be said - there is only the action of understanding. Action - not theory.

Truth meanwhile remains truth - ever effective - whether understood or not by us mere mortals!

Forum: Insights Wed, 04 Nov 2009
Topic: Images

ganesan balachandran wrote: Is not imagination a shaping factor in life?

Imagination is only in place in the technical - where it is useful for solving technical problems like shelter etc.

Imagination which is operating in the psychological realm is a disaster. And I wonder how many see the difference.

Forum: Insights Wed, 04 Nov 2009
Topic: Images

That quote should have come up as being from Dappling Light - not gb. There seems to be a technical glitch! Anyone with the imagination to fix it? :)

Forum: Awareness in our world today Wed, 04 Nov 2009
Topic: Nobel prize for peace to Sri.JK

ganesan balachandran wrote: How to initiate this proposal for an award of Nobel prize for Peace to Sri. J.K. Let us prepare the ground for it. One day this is going to come true. gb

K never required approval from the deemed 'authorities' of his day. (Just witness how he tried to secrete away and leave behind on a table the award the UN presented to him - have you seen that?)

I suspect - while it may make his 'followers' happy and reinforced in their 'quest' - a Nobel peace prize is neither here nor there to the teaching - nor to the truth itself.

What use is an award presented by a generally corrupt society to a human being who constantly questioned the whole of corruption?

The desire for such an award implies that truth needs the approval of society - it does not. Society does however need truth! But awards will not bring that about.

Forum: Awareness in our world today Wed, 04 Nov 2009
Topic: Nobel prize for peace to Sri.JK

When the UN presented K with a peace prize - some little statue I think it was - he held it behind his back and then sidled back and slipped it on to a table just before he left the room. Some official saw it there a picked it up and hurried off after K as though K had forgotten something really important!

Says it all really Krishnan! :)

Forum: Awareness in our world today Thu, 05 Nov 2009
Topic: Nobel prize for peace to Sri.JK

ganesan balachandran wrote: There is a need to understand JK with ourselves first and also we have a comitment to inseminate his teachings or propagate. This will become easier if he is awarded nobel prize

Our commitment is to discover and understand quietly and in stillness the truth of the human condition.

Please explain how anyone who would be 'suitably impressed' because K wins a Nobel Peace Prize has even begun to lay the ground for such a serious inquiry into the whole of human corruption.

As K himself said - the teaching is only for the few. Many others will hang around on the edges, trying to fit what he said with their own ideas, beliefs, and their overall sense of importance, and then blame K because it does not/cannot compute.

To consider trying to turn the teaching into a popular movement supported by various prizes and world authorities would seem to be a completely erroneous direction.

Forum: Awareness in our world today Mon, 09 Nov 2009
Topic: Can we consider Krishnamurti as continuity of Budha

When the Buddhists asked K a similar question he replied: Why do you compare?

So: Why do you compare?

Forum: Awareness in our world today Mon, 09 Nov 2009
Topic: Can we consider Krishnamurti as continuity of Budha

Look at today's quote:

"In talking to groups of listeners all over the world, I find that more and more people seem not to understand what I am saying, because they come with fixed ideas."

And that is what happened in that talk with Buddhists. So busy were they - trying to 'fit K in' - they missed altogether what he was saying. And so it continues.......

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Mon, 09 Nov 2009
Topic: Classic Conditioning

Too many fixed ideas operating here perhaps?

Forum: Insights Mon, 09 Nov 2009
Topic: Seriousness

The fact is: humanity is in total disorder.

I am humanity.

nick carter wrote: Why does one who sees and feels all this go on living? Why not just die?

That seems, at one level, to be opting out of the responsibility. But at another level, it is all one can do. The only inevitability - one way or the other.

Forum: Awareness in our world today Mon, 09 Nov 2009
Topic: Can we consider Krishnamurti as continuity of Budha

Paul Lanzon wrote: And if these 'Buddhists' were trying to fit K 'in' then that proves they were acting out of keeping with the true spirit of Buddhism (which is shown at its best in K's work).

K made it very clear that the only manner in which to approach the teaching is with an empty and clear mind.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Tue, 10 Nov 2009
Topic: Will Cry Translator affect patience & tolerance in children ?

Chilton Pearce hits the nail right on the head.