Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Patricia Hemingway's Forum Activity | 2295 posts in 13 forums


Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Mon, 06 Jul 2009
Topic: Time

My conduct? Please explain what I have done apart from question.

Does Phil own and control the questioning on 'his' forum?

I have stated that opinion does not change fact. For this I should be banned? Nothing I have said is personal.

Phil should come out publicly and explain what my perceived 'transgressions' are if he wishes to ban me.

Does someone who starts a forum then become the dictator of that forum?

Forum: Question authority Mon, 06 Jul 2009
Topic: reaction

Dear Randal - you are funny! :)

Forum: Question authority Mon, 06 Jul 2009
Topic: Dr. Authority

Bring Dr Dictator here - and then I might comply. ;)

Forum: Question authority Tue, 07 Jul 2009
Topic: Dr. Authority
Randal Shacklett wrote:
Patricia Hemingway wrote:

Bring Dr Dictator here - and then I might comply. ;)

Well, I mean, what's the difference? I just wanted to wear a lab coat and stethascope for my public flogging. You mean I have to put on a facist military uniform for you? Naughty girl! ;o)

Ah Randal - you are refreshing. A dictator does not run this forum - just a genuinely funny person. ;)

Forum: Question authority Wed, 08 Jul 2009
Topic: Dr. Authority

Just hum a few bars, and I will sing along.

Forum: Question authority Thu, 09 Jul 2009
Topic: Dr. Authority

Randal - I am un-insultable! Just forgot the smiley face. Here it is now - ;)

Forum: Serious Debate Thu, 09 Jul 2009
Topic: What would a school look like that actually taught Krishnamurti's insights into conditioning

Randal Shacklett wrote: But isn't your whole proposed premise, "spritual speculation"? Just on face value, it directly contridicts the essence of everything K talked about. You are trying to conceive of a utopian K future, and from there, act to make it reality. Which is absurd because, as you may have heard, "there is no becoming". I hope you don't mind me falling so far off topic.

That is a very astute comment Randal.

There is a common tendency, from the limitation of the known - for the self to dream up some idealistic state of being and then to strive towards fulfilling it. This is quite clearly 'becoming', as you say, and demonstrates all that K warned against.

One cannot 'teach K's insights'. The teaching is not about that, as it can only be mimicry to try to 'teach K's insights'.

Forum: Question authority Sat, 11 Jul 2009
Topic: Dr. Authority

Is that your opinion Randal? Is the observer the observed perhaps? :)

Forum: Question authority Sat, 11 Jul 2009
Topic: Dr. Authority

So it is an opinion and a judgment! ;)

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 12 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

Prasanna P wrote: the expected change hasn't come about despite great efforts of the organizers in many big organizations.

Why expect 'change' to come about because of efforts of the organizers in many big organizations?

The K organizations are there to preserve the teaching of K in its entirety, and in its pure form, and to make it available to anyone who has the passion to find out. This they fulfill.

It is not for them - or anyone else for that matter - to presume to 'measure' success (as change), as to do so can only be from the known.

Truth does not need assistance. It exists regardless.

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 12 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

Prasanna P wrote: Every theory has to and will grow till a state, from where it can't grow any more. Then it can be said to have reached the state of pure science. Till then we have to research, watch it grow and thereafter even make use of it. That is all. Of course, the interpretations etc., shouldn't be done. K's works can't be misinterpreted nor it is necessary. Even KFA can start a research wing and even sponsor some works. There is nothing wrong in it, as long as it is in the direction of the fulfillment of the objectives of K.

Those days, K probably thought that his teachings may be misused like teachings of other great teachers, if there are no safeguards to it. So he asked for its preservation in the same state. Not only he, even others at that time, were unable to even imagine the leaps and bounds the human knowledge might take in psychology as well as other sciences.

Dear Prasanna - with the greatest of respect, endeavouring to bring K's teaching into the known as an approved science is a completely wrong direction. It can lead to nothing other than serious pollution of the teaching.

Research what - truth? Then it is no longer truth, but theory and opinion.

Also - I seriously question that psychology has gone ahead in 'leaps and bounds'. And I question that the 'right' psychology has anything at all to do with the teaching of K. There is no ending in inventing the 'right psychology'.

Your final statement is profound.

Truth does not need the help of the sciences. Truth only manifests when one is truly standing alone, and not following, (or even re-inventing), 'sciences', and every other approved thought system, like a bunch of lemmings.

Forum: Question authority Sun, 12 Jul 2009
Topic: Dr. Authority

Yep! :)

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 12 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

Hi Eve -

The point I was making is more or less what you are saying here. Which is that any change can only manifest in everyday life, not in organizations and scientific institutions.

One cannot legislate or organize truth. Remember K's story about the devil when a man bent over and picked up truth? The devil was not at all concerned about it, saying "Now let him organize it". :)

As Prasanna said above - about truth: "Now it is for us to take it or to leave it."

Asking that science, or any other institution, research truth and its effect on the psychological is just another desire for something else to follow.

Following is OUT! Leaders are OUT! Standing alone and finding out is all that is left.

The teaching has not failed - how can truth fail? It is what it is, regardless of any opinions about what that might be, and K's part in pointing it out.

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 12 Jul 2009
Topic: What would a school look like that actually taught Krishnamurti's insights into conditioning

Randal Shacklett wrote: What is this common tendency you mention? You mean there are commonalities that we might explore? Why does the mind perpetually dream up these opposites and strive to become them? How can an idea/belief/opinion/memory, which is just like a photograhic recording, become/evolve into, anything other than another idea? And so no change at all.

The commonality is the deeply entrenched conditioned response of 'becoming' - yes. One has to understand the movement of that - stay with it and not move away into becoming.

K used to speak of remaining up against the brick wall. Becoming is moving away from being stuck at that wall - desiring to feel as though one is 'doing something'. Remain at the wall. Do nothing. How difficult is that!

Forum: Serious Debate Mon, 13 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

Prasanna - The teaching is polluted when it is watered down - made easy - officialized by science. But one has the source to return to, which thanks to the K Foundations remains pure, (if one can get past the commentaries in the introductions of some of the later books).

Eve - you speak of "guiding the young to question conditioning". One can do that only if one has ended conditioning in one's own life. And if one has ended conditioning, there is no need to do anything apart from act from that state of no-conditioning.

Bob M - K was still conditioned himself back in 1924 - by the Theosophists. It took years for him to end this conditioning, just as it does for us - it is a process. K may have been all 'warm and fuzzy' and appealing back in 1924, but the true clarity of the teaching is in the later, very austere, teaching at the end of his life. This is why it is important to approach the teaching as a whole, and with complete understanding of life's dynamic processes.

Forum: Insights Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Healing the mind

Staying with what is - however painful or fearful - is the only true healing, I have discovered.

Hi Mike!

Forum: Serious Debate Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

Prasanna P wrote: If you have become a light unto yourself, you don't need K either. If you haven't yet become, you have to understand K. Then you will become a light unto yourself.

Is 'becoming a light unto yourself' different to any other 'becoming? If so - in what manner is it different?

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

The battle-lines are now perhaps a little more clearly defined, but the battle of the egos continues unabated!

Where does it go from here? Does it matter? Not really!

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Michael Cecil wrote: In other words, when Krishnamurti talks about stepping outside of time and bringing and end to conditioning, does this not signify that the consciousness he is talking about is, quite literally, escaping the controls that have been imposed by the current geo-magnetic field upon the vast majority of brains on this planet?

Hello Michael -

Isn't it that there is one human brain? What you are saying about the influence of the geo-magnetic field's effect on that human brain is new to me - which is not to say I dismiss it. It is an interesting theory certainly.

But the problem of humanity is clearly that the natural physical function of the human brain is over-ridden by an invented psychological self, and when K talks about 'stepping outside of (psychological) time and bringing an end to conditioning' - is it not a total ending of that invented conditioned self he is referring to?

Is adding into that simple equation another element (as the geo-magnetic field and its influence) just further complicating the matter? - or worse, finding an excuse not to take direct responsibility for the disorder, because it is beyond our control anyway?

Just asking.

Forum: Insights Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Healing the mind

Hi Mike - Rasmus -

That's it - staying with it - fear, psychological pain - there is a moving into it, through it, which allows it to dissipate naturally.

One can never deny or wish it away - that does not work at all. There is always avoidance, which will work for a while perhaps, but eventually the fear/pain will return and bite again.

But one can go deeper into it, embrace it, even to the point of just allowing it to kill you. (This is not a theory to me either Mike - it is an actuality.)

Forum: Insights Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Healing the mind

I remember K talking at one stage about following a thought through to its natural/logical conclusion.........

Fear is thought, psychological pain is thought......

Forum: Insights Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Healing the mind

Rasmus Tinning wrote: f thought is the problem, and ?staying with? or following a thought is the solution, haven?t we somewhat reduced the whole thing? Has ?staying with it? not become a cure-all method?

Well - don't believe me. Find out the actuality of it and then there will be no need to ask that question about 'method'.

Forum: Insights Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: Healing the mind

Anxiety=thought='me'. Fear=thought='me'. Psychological pain=thought='me'. Anger=thought='me'.

(Or vice-versa)

How can staying with the fact of it possibly be a 'method'?

Standing outside of that fact and having an opinion about it, on the other hand, may well lead to invention of a method.

Forum: Question authority Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: Religion: Humanity's Bitter Curse

Zahira Alaskar wrote: Randall, I think before I begin the practice in these teachings I want a promise of something better than I currently observe. The practice of staying with "what is" in the moment, enough energy for some mutation to occur, will it change this over all state of humanity? If so, it may well be worth the diligence. Or how about the promise of changing the "me"?

Why presume to put conditions on truth? Why presume to be so 'all-important'?

One is either passionate about finding out about truth and life - unconditionally - or one is not.

How can anyone even begin to enter the unknown while carrying projections - or hopes! - of what one will find there.

What 'promise' of 'changing the "me"'? Do you desire a better 'me'? Is that what you think K promises?

And what is 'practicing the teaching'? Does one 'practice' life? When is the real thing?

Forum: Serious Debate Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

Prasanna P wrote: If you tell me what is that 'any other becoming', I can tell you how it is different.

"I" am this - "I" will be that.

K made that comment about 'being a light unto oneself' very early in his life/teaching. He probably became aware that it was an invitation to 'become-ers', and ceased to mention it - with good logical reason.

Forum: Question authority Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: poetry

lol - Yes, pain on the one hand, pleasures on the other. Funny about that! :)

Forum: Serious Debate Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

Prasanna P wrote: When I say, "you are conditioned now, and you will have to be unconditioned", a lay man who hasn't read K will understand this. It is quite simple. His present state should change into the new unconditioned state.

In other words - he will become a better self?

Forum: Question authority Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: Religion: Humanity's Bitter Curse

Zahira Alaskar wrote: Patricia, entering the unknown is quite a fearful action. I think I should have some idea where I will end up. K seemed to promise lots of beauty, love, intelligence in all his writings. Will I end up there is I attend the timeless?

Hello Zahira -

Where do people get the idea that K 'seemed to promise lots of beauty, love, intelligence in his writings'? To me, the teaching is about understanding the disorder of humanity, and one's responsibility in that disorder.

Perhaps the reason so few understood K during his lifetime, and since, is that they only bothered to go there because they think there is a promised reward.

Other gurus may promise rewards. K only pointed to truth, and then said: Find out.

If in the early days, when he was still under the influence of the Theosophists, K said things like: 'I want to set mankind unconditionally free', don't forget that he was also conditioned - by the Theosophists, and by his Brahman upbringing. We all have conditioning to understand and deal with - K was no exception. He just found the intelligence to decode it all - totally.

It is in the later teaching that K is at his most austere and clear, and then he is promising nothing, but going deeply into the disorder that humanity finds itself in.

But don't listen to anything said by anyone else - especially me! Find out! :)

Forum: Question authority Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: Religion: Humanity's Bitter Curse

Zahira Alaskar wrote: Patricia, entering the unknown is quite a fearful action. I think I should have some idea where I will end up. K seemed to promise lots of beauty, love, intelligence in all his writings. Will I end up there is I attend the timeless?

Hello Zahira -

Where do people get the idea that K 'seemed to promise lots of beauty, love, intelligence in his writings'? To me, the teaching is about understanding the disorder of humanity, and one's responsibility in that disorder.

Perhaps the reason so few understood K during his lifetime, and since, is that they only bothered to go there because they think there is a promised reward.

Other gurus may promise rewards. K only pointed to truth, and then said: Find out.

If in the early days, when he was still under the influence of the Theosophists, K said things like: 'I want to set mankind unconditionally free', don't forget that he was also conditioned - by the Theosophists, and by his Brahman upbringing. We all have conditioning to understand and deal with - K was no exception. He just found the intelligence to decode it all - totally.

It is in the later teaching that K is at his most austere and clear, and then he is promising nothing, but going deeply into the disorder that humanity finds itself in.

But don't believe anything said by anyone else - especially me! Find out! :)

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 16 Jul 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Ramesh G wrote: The self doesn't want to end itself. That's why it creates a lot of theories.

Yes - exactly. It invents theories wherein it can conceal itself - such as all this left-right brain chatter. Anything to avoid the real issue - which is the disorder that humankind has unleashed upon the planet.