Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Patricia Hemingway's Forum Activity | 2313 posts in 13 forums


Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

nick carter wrote: Are you implying you know what an enlightened one would or would not say?

Isn't that your claim? As in:

nick carter wrote: Obviously, you know nothing about enlightenment.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

nick carter wrote: You're quite the drama queen, aren't you?

Is that all you can do Nick? Come back with yet another judgment/image of someone you know nothing about? Do you ever discuss the ISSUE, or is the repertoire really limited only to judgments of the images you yourself invent of another? Is that a fun game for you?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

O.M. - Your #64 is a beautiful and honest posting. Thank you. At times this forum inspires.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Nick - YOU ARE what you project onto others.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

nick carter wrote: to your crabbed sense of what dialogue ought to be.

I dismiss 'dialogue' altogether, so there is no 'sense of what dialogue ought to be'.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

nick carter wrote: anything that might reveal what a closed-minded, self-righteous, tiresome old scold you are.

Nick - as already pointed out - YOU are the images YOU invent.

Do you really believe that anyone who understands what K is pointing to about images will jump in front of your randomly fired bullets? So - fire away - you harm only yourself.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

nick carter wrote: cow patty

Is that how you see yourself? How sad. Such hatred.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 14 Jun 2010
Topic: Time

nick carter wrote: You don't know you've been out of your mind until you're back in. Being and knowing are two totally different things. Spend too little time out of your mind and you'll never know what your mind is. Spend too much time out of your mind and you'll never catch up with yourself. It's a delicate balance.You have to get out now and then, but if you overdo it, getting back in can take too much time and you haven't got time to waste. But at the same time, once you're back in taking time to catch up, you can get carried away by the whimsy of it all and waste time going on and on about it.

Time is everything. Time is not "of" the essence; time is the essence. Without time you can't find out what it means to be in (by getting out), or what it means to be out by getting back in. With time, though, it's all possible.

Now that is a load of cow patties!

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 14 Jun 2010
Topic: Time

Dear Nick -

You are free to display on here your hang-ups about image, cow patties, language, aging, etc, if that is what you wish.

But please - in this new incarnation (too late for the former one unfortunately) - do resist projecting these hang-ups on to other people. At least have the grace to OWN them yourself this time.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 05 Jul 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

dhirendra singh wrote: Sorry to say M, he is a very good shopkeeper, so he always give very good description for his goods.

Yes - and human desire will fall for that every time.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 07 Jul 2010
Topic: One little step to the enlightenment:

Does anyone really believe that theorizing about 'enlightenment' will bring it about? Or even worse - listening to someone else theorize about it? Come on! It is all words - signifying nothing!

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 08 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

Yes David - that is the painful fact of what we humans are up against. All else is theorizing, pretending, and grandstanding.

Desiring and discussing 'enlightenment' is one thing. The action of negation is quite something else altogether.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 09 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

David Loucks wrote: I do have a point to all of this but I am trying to go slowly and point out something.

And I, for one, am following where you are going with all this with interest.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 09 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

ganesan balachandran wrote: David me too.

Perhaps the forum is finally on the edge of a serious discussion - at last. Seriously!

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 11 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

David Loucks wrote: The default state of the universe is order. We provide the disorder.

To go even further: The universe IS order - Humanity is the only disorder.

David - you make strong points here.

Human beings are destroying our planet. The human world is not only 'being led by the insane' but worse, the human brain generally is becoming more senile by the day. More fooled by celebrity, greed, image, the need and justification for violence - and the ever-more-prevalent belief that there is no effective action that anyone can take because the disorder is so complete, and we are just a unimportant and ineffective speck in it all.

The only action that can be taken is an internal one: that being to allow the brain to heal - to contemplate, ponder, rest, and perhaps allow it to find its own natural order - through correct diet of both body and mind. But if there is only one human brain on the planet, then that healing pervades.

Denying the human disorder only exacerbates it. Observing it in oneself at every moment (but without feeding it further) is an honest action. Perhaps the only honest action one can take.

Anyway - good honest discussion. And that is important if one can come across it, and allow it to manifest.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 12 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

David Loucks wrote: It turns out, not surprisingly, that a diet that is good for the individual is also good for the planet as a whole. The raising of livestock for food is one of the major causes of global climate change. Seventy to eighty percent of our potable water and 70% of the grain are being used to raise livestock. Commercial meat is not only extrememly unhealthy to consume it is also the most inefficient food source imaginable. If governments didn't subsidize the raising of livestock one hamburger would cost any where from $35 to $100 in US dollars. And all this is going on while the UN reports that 20k children are starving to death every day. Insanity!

David - Yes it is insanity. Human beings are naturally herbivores, if one looks at our physicality - long intestine for example (carnivores have short intestines so the meat does not ferment in there) and there is no doubt most of human disease is due to incorrect diet.

In Australia also it is also believed that the meat industry must be supported, so the cruelty of it is ignored and everyone encouraged to eat the kill. Such insensitivity being promoted here!

But at least one can take a personal action in this matter, and many do. Our diet is completely animal free, and we have never been healthier. I am only sorry I was not born into a family who understood the disorder of consuming meat, as many Indian families do for example.

And of course, as you point out, the whole planet is undermined at many levels by this disorder, not to mention the terror of the sentient beings we herd and destroy. Any wonder humans can choose to close their eyes when atrocities happen against our own kind. We are conditioned to be completely de-sensitized.

And then there is the imbalance of immense wealth and intense poverty.......

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 12 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

sunil jain wrote: To observe human disorder without feeding it further is difficult. The disorder outside is due to this interior feeding, No? The problems in world are increasing making observation of disorder more difficult and the honest action remains theory.

Sunil - Why does honest action remain theory? Ceasing an animal diet is not theory - it is fact - as it the much better health that accompanies it.

Watching every conditioned thought as it arises is not theory. And without judgement of any given thought or wishing it to be otherwise, one is not adding to the disorder, but simply observing it purely. There is honest action there - not theory.

There is a trap one can fall into with K's teaching, which is: Psychological thought, which wants to stay in control, will put up the argument that there is nothing to be done because it is all THEORY - and then one is paralyzed and challenges nothing - and psychological thought and conditioning have won - again!

K always claimed that to go deeply into the teaching one requires a sharp brain. And a sharp brain will not invent dogma and doctrine out of the words K said, but will actually go into it and FIND OUT first-hand. No more excuses.

Is it difficult? - perhaps. Does it require great attention? - definitely. Is there anything more important to embark upon? Surely not. Unless one is happy to continue on in the same old conditioned mess of disorder.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 13 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

sunil jain wrote: Before the trap you mention is trap of losing attention in observing thoughts as they arise. Watching is finished and reactions start. This happens again and again and is disturbing.

So observe the reactions.

To call them 'disturbing' is a judgement. Watch then how the brain wishes to judge. Observe without believing there should be a desired 'result' or 'reward', or if such belief arises, then observe that. Sooner or later 'the monkey' (thought) runs out of tricks.

Observe relentlessly, and no matter what crops up in the head, don't invent a 'should be' about it - to do that is just more 'becoming'.

But hey - don't believe what anyone else says - find out for yourself.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 13 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

sunil jain wrote: What will be qualities of sharp brain here ? It can not be knowledge. Is it seeing/observing ability ? This finding out first hand different from finding 'what is' ?

Watch closely the movement of thought - (the tricks of the monkey) - and the brain will sharpen. Correct diet is essential.

But again - find out first-hand, because anything said is only useful for one who finds out first-hand.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 18 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

RICK LEIN wrote: So on the one hand we complain about the type of foodthe me gets,then we complain when the supply is cut off?So you see the me will find something to feed on either way.

Excellent point Rick. As we would say here in Aussieland: The self wants two-bob each way! :)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

What question?

One is looking at the whole question of human disorder surely?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

I love T S Eliot. Much of his poetry is profound.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

In fact - there are some that writers I read, TS Eliot being one of them, and it occurs to me that they may have also been touched by what K said, or have perhaps stumbled upon profundity about humanity for themselves.

Insight into humanity (the self) must be there for everyone - after all, we are it. What is required is the emptying out of all the conditioned rubbish that blocks the sunlight, the honesty to face the truth of it, and then allowing it to perhaps manifest.

But I cannot name anyone who has laid out publicly, with such clarity, passion and insight, the wholeness of understanding of the disorder of humanity that K did. He really did (and does still) stand quite alone in that.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

ganesan balachandran wrote: Can we construe that we need JK always.

Hi gb -

It isn't JK we need - he himself said he was just a passer-by. What humanity needs is the insight that JK spoke of - that insight into human disorder.

But many who hear him seem to look only for some imagined promised reward, and have no desire to go into the disorder at all. Which is probably why so few understand deeply WHERE he was coming from - from where he spoke.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

dhirendra singh wrote: Who is this 'self'? Dhirendra? Patricia? or me? Is it something different from me? let us see! or will prefer to tell what K say about it

It is the same 'self' Dhirendra for all of us, no matter how 'individual' we may desire to believe our petty little 'selves' to be. And I didn't need K to tell me that. It is obvious once gone into.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

sunil jain wrote: One friend commented it is foolish to observe like this and a load and stress on mind.

Why listen to anyone else? Find out for yourself.

Of course thought - in whatever guise - is going to tell you that. Thought hates to be constantly watched. The monkey hates having his tricks exposed and challenged.

Another question my mind ask (and my friends also ask me) is how long to observe like this in life ? Will monkey runs out of tricks ever ?

As long as time (how long?) is brought into the equation, time will be there, won't it?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

Madhu Sameer wrote: We all talk about how attachment needs to be relinquished, little realizing that attachment is a necessary condition for human existence.

Psychological attachment is in no way a necessary condition for human existence.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 19 Jul 2010
Topic: Daily life

dhirendra singh wrote: Yes, and it's all issue are common, are of one, we have to tackle them as one, not as divided.;)

But first we have to understand the fact that we are divided, and by what.

We are no going to suddenly become 'one' by all agreeing to agree with each other!

One has all the information about the disorder of humanity operating within, and honest inquiry is in fact a very solitary and meditative pondering, not a public 'event' of "agreement".

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 20 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

Dean R. Smith wrote: No, that's most definitely not what he meant. The complete emptying of consciousness is psychological ending. Then there is only a body in and of a field of awareness or what may also be called intelligence. It's the state of the unknown, the unconditioned.

Concisely and accurately stated Dean.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 20 Jul 2010
Topic: Conditioning and attachment

Madhu Sameer wrote: Yes, he probably left the rot...but it is impossible for the "rot" to leave us....

If you are claiming that to be the case, then you have clearly not understood this:

Dean R. Smith wrote: The complete emptying of consciousness is psychological ending. Then there is only a body in and of a field of awareness or what may also be called intelligence. It's the state of the unknown, the unconditioned.

And that is the basis of the teaching of J Krishnamurti, not in his words granted, but the words of someone who has probably gone there for himself, and worked it out for himself. (And I do not mean to invent an image of Dean here, but am responding honestly to what he has said - I do not know him)

So you see, it can and does happen..... in spite of all those who get on here and belly-ache about how K has failed. Well - not to everyone, quite clearly.

The teaching makes great demands.

Endeavoring to link it and dove-tail it into already-held beliefs and theories does not aid in the understanding of the truth K points toward. The teaching stands alone from all that - it questions and negates all that.

One cannot really go into it unless completely empty-handed - and empty of all belief and theoretical systems. That is what it demands. To do otherwise is to invite confusion, frustration and eventual dismissal of the K's teaching as having failed, as often witnessed on here.