Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Patricia Hemingway's Forum Activity | 2311 posts in 13 forums

Forum: Insights Mon, 14 Dec 2009
Topic: Theosophy Revisited

K had to completely let of of all his own conditioning - including (and especially) the conditioning he received from the theosophists.

The truth K pointed towards cannot be approached with any conditioning still active.

Forum: Insights Mon, 14 Dec 2009
Topic: Theosophy Revisited

Jayendran Menon wrote: It is open to all the sacred teachings of mankind.

As K himself said - all those 'sacred teachings' have brought humanity to this point of disorder.

Throw out all sacred teachings and see humanity for what it is now - knowing that one is part of all this mess.

But of course - not everyone is prepared to do that - too difficult. Humans love to cling on to what gives us security.

Forum: Insights Mon, 14 Dec 2009
Topic: Seriousness

ganesan balachandran wrote: What is he difference?

Find out.

Forum: Insights Mon, 14 Dec 2009
Topic: Theosophy Revisited

Or even better than 'throwing out' or 'dropping' - just 'let it all go' and stand completely alone without any belief system for psychological support.

Forum: Insights Tue, 15 Dec 2009
Topic: Is there something sacred, long lasting in India, in this part of the world?

In the eastern world - especially India - there seems to be a preparedness to acknowledge the immeasurable, and a willingness to just let it be without human interference. In western society/culture, on the other hand, we believe everything can be measured, and should be measured from the limitation of human thought, inflicting terrible interference and damage.

I am familiar with this discussion, and have wondered if this is what K referred to in this part of the particular dialogue.

Forum: Insights Tue, 15 Dec 2009
Topic: Theosophy Revisited

RICK LEIN wrote: K was very direct when he said one must have an empty mind,vacant,to be as nothing,to die to the past each moment,to perceive what is with clarity.So the teachings could not be what they are if they were distorted by past,attempts to influence him.

Exactly - K could not have discovered what he indeed did had he been tied down by any form or remnant of any religious (or other) conditioning.

Why to you think he spoke so often and passionately about ending all conditioning and attachment? Do you imagine that was 'second-hand' to K? He understood it so clearly because it happened to him also - at the hands of the theosophists and inflicted on a very pure and innocent young mind. K saw and understood the movement of it all - first-hand.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Wed, 16 Dec 2009
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

Greed is an action.

We seem to be happy to accept so-called 'positive' words like 'awareness', but deny that 'greed' can be anything more that a word?

Seems that humanity is really heading in a completely wrong direction. Ac-cent-u-ate the positive - e-li-mi-nate (by pretending it does not exist) the negative. Does that help, do you think? Does that bring one closer to truth? I very much doubt it.

But it is the way human beings are conditioned to operate - so intent are we upon appearing to be 'noble'.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Wed, 16 Dec 2009
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

Human greed is a physical reality.

Without human greed acting, the planet may not be in environmental crisis - and there may well be no hunger or poverty anywhere.

But there IS greed, and there IS environmental crisis, and there IS hunger and poverty. That is the physical fact of it - not words.

And humankind is NOT noble.

Also - there was quite clearly a wrong turn, just as K and Bohm discussed. Mankind stepped out of the evolutionary process, and continues to do so.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Wed, 16 Dec 2009
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

max greene wrote: It is the past. It is thought and ideation caught in time and decay.

So do you believe it can all just be dismissed? Do you think there is no necessity to understand it? Just denial of it - and move on, into your own secure little 'present moment'?

I really question that theory! It smacks of cop-out.

Isn't the whole disordered history of humankind active in each present moment? Where is the responsibility for all this? Is that to be denied also?

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 17 Dec 2009
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

But Max and French Touch - compassion is in seeing that we are all the same brain. There is no separation in that, nor is there denial that we ARE the disorder. Only in staying with the fact of that can there be change. Everything else is wishful thinking and escape.

French Touch wrote: It's all depending where you are on the slippery path of Krishnamurti teaching.

But French Touch - it is about truth itself - which K only pointed towards. One has to go there and find out - without any delusional thinking that one is part of a noble species, or rescued by some magical belief system. It is not about K's 'slippery path' at all.

The facts are there for all to see, but if there is any desire to find security in these facts, the truth will not manifest. Simple as that.

Humanity took a wrong turn. Don't you see that it is important to discover what it is? Or do you believe one can proceed blindly along the path towards 'enlightenment'? :D

I do not expect anyone to be even remotely interested in what I say, unless the same questions have been asked. And I am fully aware that thought hates what I am saying, and will continue to deny any part of it, because thought has invented its own delusion, and clings on to it at any cost. That is thought's movement, isn't it? One either sees this movement - or not.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 17 Dec 2009
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

max greene wrote: To be free of something, all that needs to be done is to observe it, which is to understand it. Observation is separation. It is impossible to see or observe anything unless one is separate from it.

So we have to see consciousness for what it is to be free of it. In this freedom, whatever is next is next.

Max - Change is NOT: "I am living in my present moment, and I am feeling really good about that because I can separate myself from the disorder and 'observe' it in everyone else, because it all has nothing to do with me as I am separated through observation".

On the outside looking in eh? What does that do, except make the individual feel good about himself? And doesn't everyone do that, one way or the other - through religious belief, tribe, nationalism, family - anything the individual can identify with and feel secure and different to other human beings? Them and us. No change there. Just more of the same old same old.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 17 Dec 2009
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....


Forum: K's teachings - new or old? Fri, 18 Dec 2009
Topic: Tony Parsons

Oh yes! People can 'attend to' Tony Parsons and pretend he is the same as K, and even better - he is alive so now one can be a follower. Yes - go ahead - follow Tony Parsons.

K is not for everyone, quite clearly. And those who cannot cut-the-mustard will be much happier (albeit even more deluded) following TP or Tolle or anyone else. Perhaps BobM or Pauld would do it for you?

And maybe then K's teaching will flower when all the hangers-on and would-be followers and re-interpreters let go of it.

The truth will not be changed by anyone's opinion of it.

K is complicated because you cannot 'follow' him - there is no comfortable formula in K's teaching because there is no comfortable formula for truth. Simple as that. And it only appears 'dated' to an ever-more senile and dull brain.

Truth cannot be superseded.

Forum: My Favorite Krishnamurti One-Liners Thu, 24 Dec 2009
Topic: K-grams

What use are platitudes?

What use are quotations out of context? There is no understanding of the whole in that - it is just feel-good re-enforcement for the self.

Forum: Question authority Sat, 26 Dec 2009
Topic: The teachings of Maitreya and Krishnamurti -- a comparison

ganesan balachandran wrote: Krishnamurty modified the phrase to say, ancestry of man to ancestry of insight for a work on the teachings of Maitreya. The last talks xi

Pardon? Where does K refer to Maitreya in the last talks, pray tell? Are you being a little misleading here? "Ancestry of insight"? Perhaps a direct quote would be far more applicable than some vague desirous interpretation.

Forum: Question authority Sat, 26 Dec 2009
Topic: What factors prevent people from understanding JK?

Back to the original question of this thread.

If desire for, or projection of, any result is acting, the teaching of K will never be understood.

The essential element in understanding the wholeness of truth within the teaching of K is complete letting go of everything - and starting with nothing. As K himself did.

Forum: Question authority Sun, 27 Dec 2009
Topic: What factors prevent people from understanding JK?

Today's quote says it all: "Renunciation to gain an end is barter; in it there is no giving up, but only exchange."

Forum: Insights Wed, 30 Dec 2009
Topic: Seriousness

Oh Randy - watch it in yourself - don't ask the question of another person.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Wed, 30 Dec 2009
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

There is one human brain French Touch.

This is essential to understand deeply and first-hand. So don't listen to me! :)

Forum: Insights Thu, 31 Dec 2009
Topic: Seriousness

Victor Blackbird wrote: I hope, you don?t exclude from ?human disorder? the personal inner disorder of each member of human society.

That is pretty much the root of it, surely?

I mean, is it a fact that the universe is in order, and humanity is in disorder? And that humanity struggles to understand, with a limited and disordered brain, the vast order of the universe - even inventing a god in its own image to explain all? And isn't it a disorder that begins with the personal, inner conflict that spreads to the general society conflict?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 31 Dec 2009
Topic: meditation and transformation

farha naaz wrote: I?ll be spiritually dead if I don?t transform myself.

Cause and effect. Is this the only manner in which humans can function? Is there never pure action?

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Fri, 01 Jan 2010
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

French Touch wrote: Happy new year!

Thanks FT - have an insightful 2010.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 01 Jan 2010
Topic: The transformation

Elizabeth A. wrote: I have read about K. advising people how to meditate,


Forum: Insights Fri, 01 Jan 2010
Topic: Theosophy Revisited

Jayendran Menon wrote: How can Theosophy be a system of belief when it is open to the study of all religions and to any new source of wisdom.

Of course it is a system of belief. Why are we so fooled by what we believe 'freedom' to be? Having more to choose from? More choice = more manifestation of desires.

All religion is nothing more than a band-aid for the disorder of humanity. There can be no solution in band-aids - only foolish comfort and security.

An important question is: Why does humanity demand these religions and belief-systems - no matter what they be? Fear of standing alone and facing responsibility for human disorder perhaps?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 01 Jan 2010
Topic: The transformation

nick carter wrote: This has the effect of making people who've been studying K for decades feel foolish because they're the experts on K and the allegedly transformed X has barely scratched the surface of The Teachings. The audacity! The impudence! Everything X says must be torn apart, trashed, and dismissed as a grandiose delusion, or I must admit that my identification with K and Transformation amounts to nothing more than my self-serving belief!

You are assuming that no-one has understood K's teaching. When it is understood, and someone comes along with lots of conclusions that have nothing to do with the depth from where K spoke, there are bound to be challenges to those conclusions.

It is nothing to do with the ever-longed-for 'transformation' that you speak of, and which many on here speak of as the only thing the teaching is about - (as in: 'a desired reward for ME') - which is what you then go on to assume that others are jealous of - an absurd assumption!

It is just very obvious when the teaching has become self-serving - and it certainly appears to be so in this case. Those with understanding do not wish such loose interpretations to mislead anyone else, as David Loucks said, so are bound to speak out.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Fri, 01 Jan 2010
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

Robert Michael wrote: "I was supremely happy, for I had seen. Nothing could ever be the same. I have drunk at the clear and pure waters at the source of the fountain of life and my thirst was appeased. Never more could I be thirsty, never more could I be in utter darkness. I have seen the Light. I have touched compassion which heals all sorrow and suffering; it is not for myself, but for the world. I have stood on the mountain top and gazed at the mighty Beings. Never can I be in utter darkness; I have seen the glorious and healing Light. The fountain of Truth has been revealed to me and the darkness has been dispersed. Love in all its glory has intoxicated my heart; my heart can never be closed. I have drunk at the fountain of Joy and eternal Beauty. I am God-intoxicated." (J. K.)

We all have our conditioning to deal with, and K was no exception. A fine example of how foolish yet all-encompassing K's conditioning was. No wonder he had such a deep and wise understanding of all conditioning in his later years. That is quite a load of theosophical claptrap to undo.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Fri, 01 Jan 2010
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

Robert Michael wrote: Here K is caught up talking in shallow, non-sensical, and meaningless circles, as was so often the case. The proper answer to the above question would be more along the following lines:

Only if and when you come to deeply, painfully, or totally despairingly sense not only your own "hollowness, insufficiency, loneliness, and emptyness" as a human being, but also fully see these very same things in all the people around you, will there then be a possibility that that necessary radical shift of consciousness or brain functioning may take place in you whereby you'll begin to see and understand yourself and the world all around you with clarity and in a totally brand new light. From which a total rebuilding process will begin to take place in you and the answers that truly edify will also begin to come, or perhaps resurface might be a more correct way of putting it.

K asked only one thing from those serious about the teaching - that it not be re-interpreted, because he knew he had said it all austerely and concisely over the many years of his life, and it is all there to be decoded and understood in its entirety.

There will always be the fools who wish to re-write what he said in the belief that they say it 'better'. Such second-hand endlessly spouted misunderstandings are sad - and to be pitied.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 02 Jan 2010
Topic: The transformation

Victor Blackbird wrote: Have you ever experienced that state ?when the "I" is not?? Have you been there? Are you going through it right now?

Sorry to butt in here. But surely it is not a logical question Victor. If there is no 'I', no 'individual transformation' as David said - who is there to experience and relate it on to others? Isn't that the whole point of this thread? Someone comes on here wanting to share 'the experience of transformation' - to show everyone else 'the way' - and that very premise is soundly challenged - and rightly so.

It is interesting that so many seem to hanker for the 'experience' of others to be related back to them. Why? Are we so conditioned in mimicry - the so-called 'role-model'? Are we completely conditioned to ONLY follow? Or to lead? Which is the other side of the same old coin.

Forum: Insights Sat, 02 Jan 2010
Topic: Theosophy Revisited

If what K points to is the truth, it is there regardless of K. He simply focused attention upon the truth of human disorder by speaking about it for many years.

Even so, people hear what they want to hear, and many K-'followers' are interested only in what they believe will be their 'reward' - 'personal individual transformation' which will make them feel better and more secure about them'selves' in this disordered society - and they miss the truth of what K pointed to entirely.

This desire for 'personal transformation' (ie: to become a better/happier 'self') is very deeply conditioned into humanity by all the religions. One must move way beyond all that to understand K.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Sat, 02 Jan 2010
Topic: Discussion of Kinfonet's Daily Quotes.....

ganesan balachandran wrote: We have drunk the Celestial drink; we have become immortal; we have gone to the light; we have found the gods.

Who is 'we'? Your comment sounds much like a platitude. Or wishful thinking perhaps? :)