Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Mittarkumar Khera's Forum Activity | 57 posts in 5 forums


Forum: Insights Fri, 17 Jul 2009
Topic: Theory of Everything

Even if Theory of Everything is found by the scientists ,in due course of time , Man will still remain as far from the ultimate reality (or turth) as he is today.

Forum: Insights Sat, 18 Jul 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

The questioner must find out why is he/she is concerned with the ending of the search. Is this a problem or it is just an intellectual question?

Forum: Insights Sat, 18 Jul 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

In continuation of my prvious comments I may add that as ong as "I" or 'me' exists there will be no ending to search.

Forum: Insights Sat, 18 Jul 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Does this means that what heart says comes from the whole of the brain and what mind says comes from a small partpart of it?

Forum: Insights Sat, 18 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

I thi nk this is very importaant to find out the nature of spirtuality. It is a heavily link text loaded word and I guess least understood just like the words love, compssion.

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

Soul is non-observable entity and therefore let us forget about it for the time being. Sprituality is also supposed to be related to religion as per dictionary. Can we proceed from here what do we mean by spirtuality? People generally feel that whatever scriptures say it all spirtual - I woud like to question this.

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

Wlould you mind reading my comments on this in response to another letter from Denmark? Thanks M.K. Khera

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

I have no definition of spirtuality. People generally think spirtual andf material are two opposites-Can this be starting point for the discussion?

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

I have no definition of spirtuality. People generally think spirtual andf material are two opposites-Can this be starting point for the discussion?

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Painful Relationships

K approached this problem by pointing out that our all relationships are infact the relationships between images that we all have about the other person.So when we feel betrayed it is the image that I have about me that has been betrayed- otherwise there is no betryal of the peron as human being. Can you try to relook the problem afresh and do you see this as a fact. In that case you are no longer carry the past burden of memory of betrayal when you meet the person again.

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: May we discuss the relationship of science with religion?

Most people believe that Science and religion are opposed to each other- I think this is not entirely correct. Science and religion have much in common. Can we discuss the common points first and then the rest?

Forum: Insights Tue, 21 Jul 2009
Topic: Theory of Everything

What I was trying to say that even if a T.O.E is developed to explain everything.the man will always be as far from the ultimate reality as he is today. Science moves from one fact to another, thus it goes on replacing the older knowledge by the new and superior knowledge. The basic point that I was trying to make is that truth is rooted in perception while a scientific theory may have emerged from some perception but when perception is translated in terms of knowledge the truth disappears. Peraps you are also is trying to say the same thing in a different way. Thanks Prof. Mittar Kumar Khera

Forum: Insights Tue, 21 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

Dear Mina Martini, Ruth Marie Bass, Srinivasan After going through various posts by you and some others not named above I feel that I should make my position clear. As I see spirtuality has no relationship with thought. Firstly thought is material and measureable. Secondly thought being the response of memory (and memory being the past) should have no relationship with the word 'spirtual'. Therefore there is no such thing as 'materilistic thought and "spirtualistic" thougt. Therefore the whole human activity relating to organised relgions(based on thought and motivation etc) is not spirtual activity. Further we can see that spirtuality is not related to consciousness because consciosness implies to be conscious of. Conciousness is the result and outcome of our culture, racial inheretence, and all our activities implying our pleasures, sufferings, anxieties, hopes, aspirations, prides, jeolousies etc etc. The seed of consciousness is "me". The higher and still higher levels of conciousness is the measurement of it by thought. The state of mind may be in spirtual state only when thught is not operating. It does not mean a blank mind or some kind of neurosis. Yes, the disappearence of duality (Ms. Mina) may point to spirtuality but how this arises. If the mind is able to see clearly that each opposite is rooted in its own opposite, that is to say, when mind can see clearly that non-violence is rooted in violence, the so called love is rooted in hatred, - that perception may be spirtual in its essence. The 'self inquiry" leads to spirtuality (Mr. Srinivasan) if it is done without any motive, without the sense of achieving of any result, without hope of anything whatsoever, however, enlightened it may be. The self enquiry imples to find the nature of "I" or "me".

Forum: Insights Tue, 21 Jul 2009
Topic: Theory of Everything

Perhaps I could not communicate properly. Perception shows things more clearly. But the urge to translate one'sperception is universal. The translation occurs either on canvas (e.g. Mona Lisa), or on a stone (a piece of great sculpture), or on a paper (in the form of great poetry, e.g. Ode to Nightangle by Keats). When perception is over why there is an urge to translate- because one wants to get recoginition, one wants to be known in the society, this gives one a certain reputation, prestige and a great sense of security. That is what everyone wants. In perception, there is a moment of truth but when it is over truth diappears and translations are only words, or ashes. The mind wants to preserve that moment and hence the translation. Let us take another everyday example. When one is hungry, the whole body, mind and heart knows the hunger. No guru needs to tell him the truth of hunger. When the hunger is over one has the memory of it, One may use the memory to write a great poem, or put it on canvas or write a novel about. If one has the talent, one may win a Nobel Prize but in that description the truth of hunger had disappeared. So the ultimate reality lies in perception and not in description. When Newton saw a falling apple he had the sensitvity and genius to see this as a universal phenomena. In the falling of apple he saw clearly the falling of the moon towards earth, and the falling of the earth towards the sun. Once that great moment of perception was over he translated it into Universal Law of gravitation, which became a a very handy and powerful tool for the scientist. In perception he was apurely a scientist and in translation he was an ordinary human being who wanted recoginition fromthe world. I think I have made clear what I meant earlier in my comments. Thanks for going through it. MittarKumar Khera

Forum: Insights Tue, 21 Jul 2009
Topic: May we discuss the relationship of science with religion?

There is a general belief that the foundation of science is 'doubt' and that of the religion is 'faith'. By religion I mean the true religious spirit and not the dogmatic religion. There is very little difference between the true religious spirt and true scientific spirit. Can we proceed further from here?

Forum: Insights Thu, 23 Jul 2009
Topic: May we discuss the relationship of science with religion?

The scientific spirit

Forum: Insights Thu, 23 Jul 2009
Topic: May we discuss the relationship of science with religion?

The scientific spirit investigates the nature of things. It starts with a doubt and uses experiment for the validation of a theory/knowledge/hypothesis etc. It tries to find out the structure of the universe, the ultimate of matter, it tries to find new cures/treatment to fight diease etc. Its mission is discovery within the field of knowledge. It uses perception to make fundamental discoveries.
The scientific spirit has no relationship with personal condition- like racial inheretence, prejudices, supersitions, the culture. The true religious spirit also starts with a doubt. Many oriental religions ask you not to accept anything until you have seen validity in your life. The truly religious man also in not concerned with his personal condition, like his culture, upbringing, inherentence. He does not belong to any group which calls itself religious. He is not the temple/church going man. The scientific spirit makes one travel outwarly and the true religious spirit makes one go deeper inwardly. As J. Krishnamurti once said while talking to students in one his schools-" these are the two minds the scientific mind and the true religious mind, that the world needs." He also said that to have a true religious mind, one must have a scientific mind. So scientific mind is the premilinary condition. I think I neednot go into further detail at this moment. Thanks Prof. M.K.Khera (Mittar Kumar Khera)

Forum: K's teachings - new or old? Thu, 23 Jul 2009
Topic: K.s teachings - new or old

As I understand the non-duality is the core of his teaching- he was the first to use the phrase "the observer is the observed" and the whole of non-dualisim is contained in these four words. His every sentence that he spoke was so original that that one cannot catogorise his teachings as this or that.
Mittar Kumar Khera

Forum: K's teachings - new or old? Fri, 24 Jul 2009
Topic: K.s teachings - new or old

Dear Srinivasan First of all I would like to say that. the topic was not chosen by me or started by me. It was already there and I just made my comments to start the discussion and hoping that others may join. Non-duality has been the core of his teaching all his life. He elaborated this in many ways durng his talks with people. Does it mean that he has been labelled? I am not sure about this. Yes, there exists lot of literature discussing the problem of duality and its ending. Some had postulated a state of liberation in which thinker exists whereas the other school of thought held a state of liberation in which thinker has ceased. Advaita philophers talk of the cessesion of duality and the attainment of non-duality y going theough a process. It appears to me that that there was always some vagueness about the thinker and the thought. Krishnamurti came along and at one stroke made a statement that thinker and thought are inseparable. That is what his famous words, the 'Observer is the observed' imply. So 'K' cannot be categorised under one school of thought or the other. He has been very original and cannot be labelled. In one of the discussion he said that duality is created by the mind to postpone an action.For example when the mind is disturbed by violence, instead of understanding it and going into the whole structure of it, we just make an ideal of non-violence (dualistic state) and hope to achieve the ideal in due course of time thus posponing the real action by the mind. All dualities are created this way except those like day and night, long and short, man and women etc. Have I made my position clear enough, sir? My subject has been Physics and I know very little about old Indian or western hilosphy. I have no claims whatsoever about this. Thanking you, M.K. Khera (Mittar Kumar Khera)

Forum: My Favorite Krishnamurti One-Liners Fri, 24 Jul 2009
Topic: The first step is the last step

This is one of the most profound statement by "K" implyimg the denial of the role of time in one's psychological life.

Forum: Insights Sat, 25 Jul 2009
Topic: What is the nature of difference between seeing and the idea of seeing?

Idea of seeing is obviously a concept. an anxiom, an abstraction while 'seeing' is an actuality. May I know the context for asking this question?

Forum: Insights Sat, 25 Jul 2009
Topic: May we discuss the relationship of science with religion?

Seeking/searching is sole purpose of a scientific mind. It moves from fact to fact. It uncovers new knowledge which could be bery beneficial for mankind. But the Nationalistic mind usurps this and uses it for its own purpose - but thatis not science. The true religious mind has already finished with seeking. It operates in entirely different dimension. It does not ask question like what is the origin of Matter or Universe or Man. It does not operate in the field of thought untill it is necessary for routine work. It has seen through the whole functioning of the brain and the mind and is no longer driven by it. It does not have a center.

Forum: My Favorite Krishnamurti One-Liners Sun, 26 Jul 2009
Topic: The first step is the last step

I should have written "the first step is the last step".

Forum: Insights Sun, 26 Jul 2009
Topic: May we discuss the relationship of science with religion?

Deaar Mr. Thomas

Thank for your comments. Regarding your first paragraph it should suffice to say that "K" maintained that scientific spirit is a prerequisite for the religious spirit. The movement of science from fact to fact is always true whether the new fact is insignificant one or revolutionary one. The revolutionary new theory comes from much deeper perception. This happens when crises occurs and the the scientist like Einstein questions the whole basis of the common understanding. He questioned the validity of time and or space existing as independent entities from where the emerged the special theory of Relativity.
When we accept that religious mind sees that science moves from fact to fact then to say that religious mind does not think that scientific fact is a fact - is it not contradictory? You need not disagree with me when I said that religious mind never ask questions like, origin of the universe/matter/man etc. You are also saying the same thing using different words. If one understands something clearly then no question arises. At number of occasions during K's talks with Prof. David Bohm K answered him by saying that in the silence of the mind, there is only creation that takes place and there lies the origin of matter and everyting. It was an astonishing statement made on more than a few occasions in various contests.

Forum: My Favorite Krishnamurti One-Liners Sun, 26 Jul 2009
Topic: The observer is the observed

This is relatively more difficult part of teaching of "K". These words were used by 'K" for the first time and his whole teaching is very well distilled into this statement.

Forum: Insights Thu, 30 Jul 2009
Topic: May we discuss the relationship of science with religion?

I am sorry in responding late as I am undergoing treatment with docotors. I think we have gone enough to see the common points between te sientific spirit and the true religious spirit. The true religious mind is not a conditioned mind. It is not affected by its environment. It has seen the falseness of temples, churches, tradition. It has has no limits and therfore no horizon. While discussing the nature of a scientific and a religious mind, why bring the factor of suffering here? I am sorry I donot understand what do you mean by "religious fact".

Forum: My Favorite Krishnamurti One-Liners Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: The burning of the known isthe action of theunknown.

As long as the 'self'' exists there can be no freedom from the known and one is caught in one's own conditioning.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: Krishnamurti and Bohm on the Physical Brain.....

Considering that every part of the body is trying to repairing itself all the time, dead cells arebeing replaced by the new ones etc there seems a greater probability that brain damage may not be irreversble processes it is being damaged more that the repair it can carry out. I have another question here if some one can throw some light on this. "K" often spoke about the non-mechanical part of the brain - what does that real meant by him?

Forum: My Favorite Krishnamurti One-Liners Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: The burning of the known isthe action of theunknown.

Dear Srinivasan You must have experienced/observed that you held certain beliefs, very dear to you, certain ideology, social/spirtual, which you would never let go. Then some body comes along talk to you and suddenly clarity dawns on you. Everything seems to be slipping from you. You even tried to resist that but inspite of you, you could not hold on to that which you cherished for so long. You have been unburdened, you feel certain amount of freedom, you feel you are breathing a fresh air All that is gone ws the burning of the known and how it happened was unknown to you. Here clarity wasthe unknown which you never sought. It came on its own terms and wiped away a lot from you. I hope I have made myself fairly clear to you.

Forum: My Favorite Krishnamurti One-Liners Mon, 03 Aug 2009
Topic: The burning of the known isthe action of theunknown.

If you kindly look at my profile then you may observe that something similar happened to me after reading 'K's talks given in Europe. That is the reason I was able to write what I wrote. Thanks M.K.Khera