Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Ruth Bass' Forum Activity | 164 posts in 6 forums


Forum: Insights Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: Healing the mind

One way healing occurs for me is to go someplace in nature for extended periods of time, away from my work and relationships. On occassions I have moved to the beaches and lived for weeks. Time is very different then. And nature speaks many truths, while the I forgets.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 17 Jul 2009
Topic: parenting

For three years I worked in a family literacy program educating young adults in parenting skills. Our focus was on ways of communicating and methods for getting the children to cooperate. The program not only taught parents how to condition their children, but also how to encourage them to explore the world around them. There are many standardized parenting programs to conform behavior to the confines of a society. "To set the next generation free" is a relative term. Free, what does it mean?

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 17 Jul 2009
Topic: parenting

nick carter wrote: I don't know what it is to be free but freedom would have to mean that one is not bound to any idea or belief about what-is, wouldn't it?

Parents are the authorities in their children's lives and they will determine the ideas that define what-is for them. In the national parenting programs, there is a move away from any physical punishment for children. Parents are learning new ways to modify behaviors without spanking. In essence, that is a bit more freedom. Parents also learn ways to boost children's self-esteem, which could be hazardous for the individual in the long run, possibly eliminating the "freedom" talked about by K. So, back to Francois' question, "What is the power of parenting to set the next generation free?' Nick says, quit talking about it and just do it.

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Why are you here?

I find reading the posts from around the world with the central focus on Krishnamurti's teachings, somewhat altering the attention of this ego. The many perspectives are refreshing, and turn this focus deeper into the inquiry. The suffering may be that "I" do not want to be responsible for this inner and outer chaos and am looking for peaceful alleviation.

I have no motive for life, no enthusiasm, no direction. I exist because two people procreated. I am an information gathering organism, altering my environment as I move though it. Sometimes, I love, sometimes Love is. That's what get's me through this suffering. Life is doing me as described in the complete instruction manual (DNA) of being human.

K is breath of life. K's teachings are a portal. Collective inquiry, as in this forum, facilitates understanding.

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

I do not know what "spirit" or "soul" is. I have not observed such a thing and I haven't read it can be measured in science. Some people believe "spirit" exists based on their observations. Some have dreams of being in other place-times-relationships unknown in their waking life. One might say dreaming is consciousness of something other than the corporeal. Another might say dreaming is proof of experience of the spiritual. Religions are matrices for spiritual origins. They develop rules of order and hierarchies for evolution of the spiritual. It all becomes another system of thought. The word "spiritual" can be quite uncomfortable for some people and inflammatory for others. Will be possible to discuss this topic without invoking belief?

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Religion: Humanity's Bitter Curse

Linda Thorlakson wrote: My understanding of K allows me to be less overwhelmed by the seeming impossibility of world peace. It allows me to let go of the idea that we must all agree upon some structure to bring about world peace

Agreeing upon a structure to bring about world peace would be a task with 6 billion points of view!! The idea that change in the world situation begins inwardly with the individual may hold some truth. But, there may also be effective service organizations in which one can participate to help bring about change as well (once the inward flowering begins).

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

Could spiritual be an other than ordinary state of consciousness, where one experiences meaningful connections with the natural world, or may experience something completely unknown?

Forum: Insights Sun, 19 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote: To understand the origin of this"I" is the beginning of my "spirituality.

Perplexing-the origin of the "I". How is understanding of the origin the awakening of spirituality?

Forum: Insights Mon, 20 Jul 2009
Topic: Can we discuss 'what is the nature of spirtuality'?

In summary of the above posts: So what is the nature of spirituality if it is not material, if it is not the mind? Is it energy (or would that still be material)? The understanding of the "Who am I" inquiry approaches the nature of the spiritual. Contact with the spiritual nature triggers emotional responses of compassion, love, joy, etc. Does spirtual nature include the ending of division?

Forum: Insights Mon, 20 Jul 2009
Topic: Why are you here?

Reading these posts first thing in the morning jump starts my daily inquiry. I look forward to them each day as a form of community. Then I'm off to work in some of the most bizzare situations. The postings have set the tone for meeting my daily challenges. Talk about two opposites colliding!!

Forum: Serious Debate Thu, 30 Jul 2009
Topic: Are We Conditioned ? If So Why?

Are we conditioned to be defensive, to expect to be heard (read)? Are we conditioned to expect RESPECT? Are expectations the most difficult conditioning to release? What if expectations turn to disappoint? Does one lash out, threatened to abolish the communication (relationship), walk away, leave the forum? The "I" conditions itself with excessive baggage.

Forum: Serious Debate Thu, 30 Jul 2009
Topic: What "Kills" a Forum Thread?

Most all forum threads are started with a serious question and participant attention is given to it. Then something deteriorating happens. One participant even wrote that his thread was essentially "killed off". I have followed several threads, witnessing 'authoritarianism', subtle personal attacks, off-the-wall distractions, or defensiveness which seemed to end a thread from my perspective. What types of responses "kill" a thread for you and why?

Forum: Serious Debate Fri, 31 Jul 2009
Topic: Are We Conditioned ? If So Why?

Dear Edward, my response was to the collective of postings in this thread. All those questions arose when reading them. I understand one's needs for acknowledgement when one has given the time and energy to contribute to the original question.

Krishnan, why are you assuming someone is "pulling a leg"? I don't understand that and I don't understand why your harshness continues even after you reflect that some of your work issues are transfering to this forum.

At times I think some participants enjoy the battle more than the dialogue. There may actually be a neurochemical component for this preference.

So, DNA conditioning? Cultural conditioning? Environmental conditioning? Where are we on conditioning?

Forum: Serious Debate Fri, 31 Jul 2009
Topic: What "Kills" a Forum Thread?

edward morrison wrote: Ruth I'll tell you what kind of responses kill my interest. 1. No response at all to posts you've taken time to reply to. 2.Those replies which clearly have not read your post and want realy to talk about their own post rather than replying directly the the points you make in your post.

Edward, thank you for responding to the question. It takes a lot of energy to tend the forum thread and bring all the pieces together. Dialogue assumes that many people have pieces of the puzzle and that they can put them together to find common ground. Whereas, debate assumes that there is a right answer and that someone has it. Let's assume all posts are relevant to the original, then would it be negligent to not respond? I think sensitivity requires it.

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote: 1.Exhibitionism-there are many sorts of it.2.Comments just to pull your leg and nothing to contribute to the ongoing discussion.3Knowing the answer to the question posed by oneself and asking others to respond to it, thereby others are exhibited as ignoramuses. What keeps me going on with the thread Is: sensitivity and seriousness. Care and understanding to each others point of view.In-depth-study and honesty.

Krishan, yes, it seems we are meeting some huge egos and clowns in this world of ours. If only we could approach dialogue with an open-minded attitude; an openess to being wrong and an openess to change, then perhaps, participants can work together to understand their individual and collective beliefs and incoherences. If one poses a question with a conclusion in mind, would one not lose the open-endeness of dialogue?

Forum: Serious Debate Fri, 31 Jul 2009
Topic: What "Kills" a Forum Thread?

Eve Goodmon wrote: Since we are all responsible for what goes on in this forum I will not deflect responsibility to fictitious ?others?. But something that I just read about conditioning may help. Being what we are but wanting to be something else. The conflict between what is, and what should be. I think here is the problem. Staying with what is staying with the facts is very difficult.

Eve, do I understand you correctly that one of the things that "kills" a thread for you is when participants do not stay with the facts; the question? Also, you mentioned "ficticious" others, does the anonymity and multiple-personalities affect the thread for you? Unfortunately, only admin can tell the fictitious from the real in this forum.

Monic Devi wrote: people are suffering ,they are unable to operate beyond their emotions. if only they could perceive their reactions it would be the beginning ..

Monic, there are many emotional responses in these forum threads. Some participants are easily offended and respond accordingly. It can make for very unpleasant reading and really gets of track. When this derailment occurs the forum thread becomes more like a ping-pong game, hitting hard opinions and insults back and forth. Are there ways to avert the "storm" and re-engage the participant into the question?

Therese Okamoto wrote: why unable, why not unwilling? could you refer me to words of JK encouraging people to set their feelings aside?

Therese, what types of responses "kill" a thread for you and why? Dialogue can hold a deeply connected quality and yet be very fluid.

Forum: Insights Fri, 31 Jul 2009
Topic: What are we looking for?

Bradley Coutts wrote: I used we as in the limited ego's that have washed up on the shore of this website. Why have we come? Maybe we find some inspiration, or maybe we are just looking for another group to join, a new identity, a brand new ego to cling to.

Bradley, I have come to participate in dialogue as described in a quote from David Bohm: Through dialogue "a new kind of mind begins to come into being based on the development of common meaning...People are no longer primarily in opposition, nor can they be said to be interacting, rather they are participating in this pool of common meaning, which is capable of constant development and change."

Something within me quiets down after attending these forums.

Forum: Serious Debate Fri, 31 Jul 2009
Topic: Are We Conditioned ? If So Why?

Randal Shacklett wrote: Ok, alright, let me be clearer. The point was that like "love" and "awareness" and "death" and "intelligence" and many other things Krishnamurti(and others) talked about during his life, the deep fundamental meaning behind the word "conditioning" is not understood by most people in the sense K meant it

Randal, Krishnamurti did seem to re-define words such as "love" (ie "Love is awareness of eternity", "Is love intelligence?"), etc. What did K mean when he talked of "conditioning"? I've listened to him more on this subject than I have read on it, and my impression was he was talking about cultural (traditional, religious, social, political) conditioning that locks one into certain patterns of behavior, image-making, and acceptance of institutions as authority. But the original question refers to:

Prasanna P wrote: a broad spectrum of variation in the levels of conditioning in people, according to the intellectual area.

How is our intellect conditioned? Will that include a perceptual conditioning? Any quotes from K on intellectual conditioning?

Forum: Insights Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: What are we looking for?

nick carter wrote: What a bunch of dolts these K-nuts are.

Mr. Carter, you have identified the nuts and dolts of the forums, but do you know the mechanics of dialogue, debate and discussion?

One is collaborative, one is oppositional, and one is derived from the same root as the words 'concussion' and 'percussion' connoting striking, shaking and hitting.

Forum: Serious Debate Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: Are We Conditioned ? If So Why?

Randal Shacklett wrote: And until that fairy tale is burst, it is meaningless to ask questions of the type you just did

Randal, please tell me the 'fairy tale'. What you wrote just isn't registering with me. Would the 'fairy tale' be that anyone might actually (or could possibly) understand what K spoke of all those years?

Forum: Serious Debate Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: Are We Conditioned ? If So Why?

Prasanna P wrote: Conditioning is nothing but our derivation of pleasure in our everyday lives

A very interesting point of view and seems plausible when conditioning is done exclusively by self. Outside self are so many other facets of conditioning, which one may have been born into or tavelled through. I suppose self can select it's conditioning once there is a break-through of external influences.

Prasanna P wrote: Intellect can't be conditioned. Intellect is only 'knowledge' which is lifeless and stored in memory.The consciousness conditions itself or engages in intellect or knowledge, to escape from its own fragmentation.

Why would consciousness escape its own fragmentation?

Forum: Serious Debate Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: What "Kills" a Forum Thread?

Participation in these forums is relationship, Randal,yes indeed! But it is a forum, must the emotional responses be so intense? Isn't there some sort of reserve available when communicating here?

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: parenting

Sree, I think you were very fortunate to have a grandmother who let you decide many things for yourself and didn't impose her ideas. That is much more freedom than most have had. And I think it is some of the best parenting.

Forum: Show 'n' Tell Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: The Murren Gathering Begins

Switzerland is one of the most beautiful places and the Krishnamurti gathering in Murren begins August 1-15. Have you attended any of the K gatherings? What impact in your life did it make?

I wonder if anyone attending the Murren gathering might be able to post (Internet available?) some impressions of the scenery, activities, interactions, etc as the gathering progresses.

Forum: Insights Sat, 01 Aug 2009
Topic: What are we looking for?

Bradley, I live in a very isolated community with a few friends interested in K's teachings. These forums expand community for me. Community brings me happiness and daily life is my only truth. I appreciate Kinfonet's pioneering and the recent revamping of this website, as well as the many participants exploring dialogue.

Forum: Insights Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: What are we looking for?

Randal, I went to review your interview questions in your profile and in one you mentioned that people think you are "strange". You also list your occupation as an Enlightened Being. From the posts in this topic and in other forums, I think you may have difficulty communicating here and interacting personally. I tried to make sense of your double entendres and metaphors, because I believe that all points of view are important. I would like to see you take several deep breaths, to help bring about more clarity in your posts. I'd really like to understand what you are saying. But I'm afraid that what your are attempting to communicate will continue to arrive through the filter of frustration and anger, and you will just be written off as a crackpot.

(I really wish there were some side-bars here, so as not to distract from the original question which was:)

Bradley Coutts wrote: I wonder what it is we are looking for? Is it happiness, or truth and are these the same thing? I put it to this forum to offer its experience on the matter.

So Randal what are you looking for?

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: What "Kills" a Forum Thread?

I think if one can relax, breathe deeply, one can find that reserve which gives patience to respond civilly, politely and kindly. These qualities facilitate the dialogue of the forum threads. However, that is not exciting to many. Some are here to raise a ruckus. They delight in this activity; just the type of activity that "kills" a thread, closes a forum topic or derails a group dialogue.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: parenting

It is disheartening to face the truth of the lives of so many children in the world today, growing up on the streets, barely surviving, without parents, alone. But as you said, humanity is on its own, orphans as such.

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: Are We Conditioned ? If So Why?

Monic Devi wrote: K seemed to repeat his messages as if people were not listening and there was so much urgency in his message

Repetition is a tool for conditioning. Undoubtedly, K has conditioned many, myself for one.

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: What "Kills" a Forum Thread?

Prasanna P wrote: you may see at least some messages are without any link to the topic but cleverly aimed at the messenger

Some years ago I introduced a friend to Kinfonet. He started off with serious questions and sincerity. But then one of his posts inadvertantly aroused some intense emotional responses.

That was a trigger for him. He took off on a wild frenzy, gleeful to antagonize others and disrupt as much as possible.

Monic Devi wrote: It is important to observe what is happening within with complete attention; observe the manifstation of the feelings and how it unfolds, evolves and brings change within.

Yes, Monic, these forums offer an opportunity for insight; even when the antagonists deliberately instigate, I suppose that is an opportunity, however, unpleasant.

Forum: Insights Sun, 02 Aug 2009
Topic: What are we looking for?

Nick, Thank you for your very kind apology.