Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
Discussion Forums

Sudhir Sharma's Forum Activity | 2670 posts in 7 forums


Forum: General Discussion Wed, 02 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

One needs to find that state of mind that is really free from all search, from all belief - without becoming cynical, without stagnating.

" That state of mind which is free from all search, from all belief is emptiness, this understanding was not easy to come by. Before I was resisting or suppressing or identifying ith all thoughts. Thoughts of desires, beliefs and seeking should not exist, that was my understanding. I was escaping from all these thoughts either in to perception or silence of mind.

"When I understood that basic nature of my mind is emptiness and when I was willing to be with this nothingness, then all searching ceased. Then my mind was able to look at thoughts without getting identified with or trying to escape from them. There was light of awareness in this emptiness that was illuminating all the thoughts.

" Now the mind was not working in darkness which is stagnation and root cause of pain, sorrow, fear etc. This emptiness which is the deepest, dynamic state of my being has the potential to free me from all becoming and seeking whenever I am in touch with it."

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 03 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

If you change because of argumentation, because logically it is so, because you are influenced, then you are only conditioned in a different direction, which brings again its sorrow.

" Why is my mind always willing to exchange one set of conditioning for another set ? The answer is that it is afraid to be alone and empty. This understanding was initially intellectual. So noting was changing and stress of living was as before.

" What has changed now is the understanding that this emptiness, this void is me. Now I am not running away from the emptiness. Staying with this nothingness has made all the difference.

" This emptiness is eternally in movement- always moving with the 'now' moment. The 'choiceless awareness' is a quality of it. When observation of inner and outer world starts from this void, then there is clarity of perception as conditioned thoughts are unable to catch up with this movement."

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 04 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Are we aware when we are not telling the truth, when we are indulging in double talk, when we are saying one thing and doing something else, when we are quoting others?

" I do not know swimming and if I tell someone that I know swimming, then I will immediately become aware of the lie. Such awareness was not easy to come by in the matters of spirit/mind as it was very difficult to differentiate between intellectual understanding and factual understanding of what was said.

" Now I have found that the awareness in the present moment does not allow me to make false claims. The hesitation and uneasiness stops me before saying anything that is not my direct understanding. I have understood that clarity of perception comes easily and naturaly with simple living. There is only sharing of what I understand without the pressure to convince or impress anyone about anything. So there is no need to indulge in double talk or to lie. The learning process about myself is going on and that keeps me on the right track in this matter."

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

A mind that is merely occupied is a petty mind, whether it is occupied with the highest knowledge, or with the daily activities of the kitchen, or the job.

" The thought process is going on all the time in my mind.The difference between 'a mind that is merely occupied' and 'mind that is observing its own activities' is now understood by me. The former activity is a result of attachment and identification while later is an action that is going to free the mind from the conflict and confusion of its own making.

" Which factor is responsible for this difference between the two ? The answer to this question came to me in many ways in words but now I understand that the actual difference is caused by one's state of being when dealing with the thoughts. This is the reason that explains as to why it is impossible to end this occupation of mind by mere intellectual understanding."

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Jun 2010
Topic: *

jamie f wrote: But in the final analysis i don't know whether it made any difference at all to my life or whether i was simply suffering from an unhealthy addiction to internet discussion groups.

This is quite a brave admission ! Do you mind saying something more about this ? Why did your participation in discussion forum fail to make any significant difference to your life ?- Regards.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Jun 2010
Topic: *

jamie f wrote: I realised quite suddenly one day that despite all the erudite dialogue, despite reading all those books, despite years of quiet introspection - despite all that i steadfastly remained almost completely stupid.

Stupid in what sense ?

There is no doubt that intellectual knowledge increases by these dialogues and reading books and this gives pleasurable sensation. It appears to one that a radical change is taking place in oneself but in reallity nothing is changing. All that knowledge becomes an unwanted load on the mind.

Did this realisation hit you one day ? And is your calling yourself stupid based on this realisation ? If so, then why did this realisation (which can be considered the starting point of wisdom) not become the stepping stone for real transformation for you ? Or by rejecting all that knowledge as an agent of change, do you feel yourself better off now ?

Regards

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Jun 2010
Topic: *

jamie f wrote: Unfortunately the fact is that i understand very few of the postings on this forum.

Isn't that some sort of a blessing in disguise ?:-)

You can rest assured that I am not out to convince you about anything. But I would certainly like to know a bit more about something that you have said in your post no. 48.

jamie f wrote: But i find myself increasingly concerned with the unmanifest. The unknown, not the known.

My understanding about 'unknown' is that eternally flowering life which is unknown to mind because it is not in its memory and so, can not be expressed in words. Do you see it like this ? If yes, then don't you feel that to be 'concerned' about 'unknown' is a wastage of time and energy ?

Or do you have some other understanding of 'unknown' ?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 05 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: " Which factor is responsible for this difference between the two ?

" When I look in as an outsider and observe the movement of thought, then my mind is occupied with this activity. But if I am looking outwards with quite mind the movement of thoughts, then I am free of the identification with thought instantly."

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 06 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

I feel that a radical change can come only when there is no effort, when the mind is not trying to become something, not trying to be virtuous - which does not mean that the mind must be nonvirtuous.

" I understand that choiceless awareness of the movement of thought is the key here. All becoming is an effort as it takes place away from the light of attention in the darkness. I understand that not to become something is also an effort. The radical change did not come till the fact of being empty at its core was not understood by my mind. There is no becoming there and all action is effortless. In that living nothingness/emptiness is present the seed of radical change K is referring to."

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 06 Jun 2010
Topic: *

jamie f wrote: if you cannot see, hear, touch or know something, you cannot be certain that it exists. You can only believe that it exists.

What about 'sensing' something ?

jamie f wrote: observer has an effect apon the observed

'observer is the observed' psychologically means observed is thought and observer is also a thought. Thought separating and giving itself a special status as 'observer' is an illusion. All thoughts compromise direct perception. So observer does have an effect on observed in both the cases.

jamie f wrote: if the thing observed is incorruptible then the act of observing it will corrupt it. Which is definitely a paradox. :-)

Observer (which is thought) is not the same as 'act of observing'. How can the plain, simple, pure act of observing corrupt anything ? When thought intervenes (as observer), then only corruption sets in. When observer (self) is not in picture, then our consciousness is in/with the Whole, (which is also the unknown) and I feel that this state comes in everyone's life many times naturally and unknowingly. Of course, one can not put one's hand on it !.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 07 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Is there any thought which is not conditioned?

" All my pleasure and pains, likes and dislikes, fears and hurts are stored in my memory. So, any and all thoughts arising from my psychological memory are bound to be conditioned.

" Is there any thought which is not conditioned ? What about thoughts of factual information ? They are not conditioned but if I project a wishful state,then conditioning colors them also.

" What happens to a conditioned thought if it gets illuminated by awareness ? If I answer this question, am I creating one more conditioning ? "

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 07 Jun 2010
Topic: Inside the New Brain!

nick carter wrote: The old brain is confident, certain, smug, but the new brain allows for doubt.

The old brain has thoughts of self confidence, certainity and smugness. If there are thoughts of doubt, then the brain is not new but old. Isn't the new brain in the state of questioning but not giving an answer ?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 07 Jun 2010
Topic: Inside the New Brain!

nick carter wrote: Doubt is sensitivity,

This relationship is not clear at all.

nick carter wrote: but doubt itself is a quality of awareness

Why do you say so ?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 08 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Our minds are the result of innumerable and contradictory influences, and any action born of that contradictory state must also be contradictory;

" When not looking at 'what is', my mind always escapes in to measurement, becoming and wanting more. I understand that this is the cause of contradiction that exist in me as 'What is' is being overlooked for 'what should be'.

" Now it is simple to understand that any action that occures for achieving 'what should be' will always be incomplete and contradictory as 'what should be' is not a fact. There will always be stress and anxiety when acting in this manner as the future always remains uncertain. Success and failure weigh heavy on the mind. Why is the mind so fond of measurement, comparision, of becoming and always wanting more ?"

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

See how extraordinarily subtle and difficult it is to have a mind which is not everlastingly full, yet if there is the urgency to find out what is right action in this mad, confused, and suffering world, you have to come to this point.

" My mind survives on words. It is always occupied with one or the other thing. If it makes any attempt to free itself of words, it is producing more words. The whole thing becomes a vicious circle !

"Why is K using the word 'urgency' here ? My understanding is that mind occupied with anything is unable to 'see'. It is wasting two very precious things in this activity - Time and Energy which means life.

"Dealing with Urgency requires movement of action 'now'. It can not be dealt with verbally. K says to come to the point where you perceive that having an unoccupied mind is difficult because this understanding is very subtle. He does not say that any effort is to be made to rectify this state to go byond this point.

"I reach the limit of my understanding when I see that any attempt to free my mind of words is futile. The right action is made possible in our mad, confusing and suffering world by 'something else' which is not reachable by my effort."

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Is there an action which is not the result of effort, which is not the action of will?

" Such an action is possible only when the mind is free of the past and projected future. When my mind is becoming, seeking, wanting and fulfilling itself, all its actions are the result of effort and directed by will, this was not difficult to understand.

" One problem was that whatever new the mind was learning about its functioning was immediately absorbed by the old knowledge and when action that came out of this self knowledge, it was again a seeking, a becoming.

" Then my mind understood a very subtle fact of ' choicelessly observing Movement of its own activities'. This involves letting go effortlessly whatever the mind is receiving in the moment.It now understands that nothing more is required to be done by it.

" While observing its own movement of activities choicelessly, one day the mind came face to face with the fact of its reality- a state of Emptiness/nothingness. The stress of action borne out of effort and will has not been able to take deep roots in mind from that moment of realisation. "

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

When you say to somebody `I love you', what does it mean?

" The list of what it means would be endless as the desires and expectations from other are endless. In rare moments it non-verbally means, 'You are filling my heart with joy as you are!'"

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

O. M. wrote: If I understand/study myself, I am studying the whole humanity.

O. M. wrote: I am taking myself too seriously,

Please give some serious thought to ending of this study also;:) That 'ending' may be the starting point of another kind of journey.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

To look, your mind must be silent, and the very urgency of looking makes the mind silent

" The first part is easy to understand. The looking is corrupted as the thoughts color 'what is'. It is also clear to me that I can not make my mind silent by effort or by a system.

"What do I understand by 'urgency of looking' that makes the mind silent ?

" When I put all my energy in looking, that intensity is the proof that I am feeling the urgency. This translates in to not allowing any movement of thought to go unobserved. This is possible when the awareness in the present moment is moving choicelessly in to the next moment.

" The urgency makes me very alert towrds this movement. I feel that awareness of this movement (which is different from content. It supports them) is possible because the mind is silent. Sometimes I feel that this movement is itself silence of the mind. When thoughts subside, in those moments the silent mind is looking at 'what is'"

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

In the desire to attain there is subtle craving for self-continuance, glorified self-continuance; and every struggle, every effort to attain liberation indicates an escape from the present.

" To desire is to look towards future for fulfilment. The ending of all desires, all identifications is inherent in staying with the movement of 'what is' in the 'now' moment. This is not a desire, effort or struggle to attain but a state of being. "

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 14 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Experiencing without memory is one state, and experiencing with memory is another.

" I understand that experiencing with memory is the life line of 'self'. This is happening all the time. There is no way/method/system to stop thoughts from interfering with perception/experiencing.

" I can only observe this movement. Experiencing without memory is the by product of such observing when it is happening choicelessly. Experiencing without memory occures on its own and no words can describe that state. "

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

It is a stupid person that wants to continue - no man who understood the rich feelings of life would want continuity.

" It is thought (self) that wants continuity. When I look around I see that everything is moving, changing. Rich feeling of life comes from being with this movement and not from identification and attachments with its contents. Self is nourished by these attachments and identifications. It can not be with the movement of life and so remains unfulfilled. This feeling fuels the desire of self to continue. The self keeps running but never arrives."

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

All humanity, whether they live in India, or in Europe or in America, or in China, Russia, all humanity goes through this terrible struggle of existence, not only physically, outwardly but also inwardly, psychologically.

" This struggle is there because I am not ready to see and move with 'what is' psychologically. I am all the time trying hard to change 'what is' in to 'what should be'. When I struggle to fill my inner emptiness with becoming, success, wants etc. and feel sorrow, fear and pain as a result, then I understand the rest of humanity is also the victim of same disorder as Human mind is similar in its functioning. "

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 17 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Is our brain capable of totally changing its whole structure, its nature?

" I am asking this question of myself and immediately see the trap of giving an answer as 'yes' or 'no'. Any certain answer is coming from a conclusion and this is not inquiring.

" I understand that 'seeing what is' is of paramount importance. When I am seeing the working of my mind without forming any ideal, then I am doing all that needs to be done. This 'seeing' in freedom is the new way of functioning for the brain. "

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 18 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

The self is dividing; the self is self-enclosing; its activities, however noble, are separated and isolated.

" My mind at deepest level is empty. The 'self' comes in to being when "I" try to fill this emptiness with my desires and wants.

" On the other hand when I am staying with this emptiness, then flowering Life fills it up naturally moment to moment. The self, by its becoming and seeking, is all the time isolating and separating itself from this creative movement of Life. This division is inevitable and is independent of the nature of activities of the self. "

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 19 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Can you rely on your experience? Because, when you choose, your choice is based on desire; what you call essential is that which gives you satisfaction.

" My memory is the store house of my past experiences. All my desires and choices are based on them. When seeing/perceiving 'what is' is obscured/compromised by desires/choices, then I am acting in darkness. I can not rely on such an action as it will inevitably bring sorrow, pain and fear in its wake. "

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 20 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

to observe means to observe without the interference of one, background; but one is the background - you follow?-one's whole being which looks is one's background - as a Christian, as a Frenchman, or as an intellectual

" Facts of life are recorded and stored in my memory as words. When I react to this factual information with like/dislike, criticism and judgement etc. then the stored words become the background (observer) which interferes with observation.

" Being aware of this interference as it is happening in the 'now' moment and not doing anything about it is the ending of this interference. The background becomes quite as such 'observing' leaves no energy for it to come 'alive'."

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 20 Jun 2010
Topic: Top 5 lies on kinfonet

dhirendra singh wrote: Members generally speak these lies:

Not one but 5 insights in one go, Dhirendra ! Congratulations. Do not forget to thank all your friends (including me, of course).:-)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 21 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

If you see very clearly, without any distortion, the psychological structure of the society in which you are being born, brought up, educated, then the instant you see, you are out of it.

" seeing clearly 'what is' without distortion is to 'see' without images, beliefs, past knowledge. This comes about when I am not straining to become something, not seeking or wanting, not comparing. This actually means when no thought is originating in my mind without coming under passive observation/awareness.

" This state of passive awareness is a movement taking place moment to moment. Any action is now in response to 'seeing', is free of all conditioning as whatever is stored in my psychological memory is not able to come 'alive' and influence my action. "

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 22 Jun 2010
Topic: My Daily Dialogue With Krishnamurti

Observation is not detachment because there is no attachment.

" The river of 'what is' is flowing and changing all the time. Observing 'what is' requires integration of all my energy. Attachment to any content of this river of 'what is' is to obstruct the free flow of this energy as attention. Same for detachment. Right observation is to give total attention to this flow moment to moment without verbally recognising and reacting to its content. "