Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Monic Devi's Forum Activity | 61 posts in 6 forums


Forum: Awareness in our world today Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his..

I don't think Krishnamurti would give advise to a politician. As far as one can see clearly, all politics revolves around greed and power. We are on different shores, separated by the vast sea. It would be ignorance to attempt to swim that length of water in hopes of survival.

monic

Forum: Insights Mon, 15 Jun 2009
Topic: Austerity - the other

I find that the meditative process provides understanding and focus of life. Living in a city myself, I am surrounded by chaos...within and without, simultaneously. I think one can live in (psychological) order in a disorderly society if one has gone through the process of eliminating the inner suffering which revolves around th emotions of anger, fear, etc. There are moments in days when there is that feeling of absolute harmony in the midst of the chaotic city.

Forum: Awareness in our world today Tue, 16 Jun 2009
Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his..
Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

Dear Monic Devi, I hope you have read the book of biography of JK by PUPUL JAYAKAR. If you have, there one comes across JK solving some dilemma faced by Indira Gandhi, the then primeminister of India, regarding the Sikh rebellion in Punjab. He seems to have said," you cannot get down from the tiger while riding it. Go all the way!" I dpo ot remember the exact wordings. So he seems to have foreseen many things about Indian Politics and advised when asked for...it seems.

Krishnan, I have yet to read that book and so much more. The response I provided was based on all that I've learned, although he had followers and wanted to eradicate the suffering of humanity, in some time and space he mentioned, perhaps in a dialogue, that it would be inappropriate to impose ones way of thinking upon another. Ultimately I think it would depend upon the surrounding circumstances.

Forum: Insights Tue, 16 Jun 2009
Topic: Austerity - the other

Keshni Sahni wrote: Moni, Please see my post on "Outer is the inner" in thought of the day. Krishnamurti seems to have contradicted himself by saying "Outer is the inner" and then by posing the question "Can you live an orderly life in a disorderly society". He seems to be implying that the inner change comes before the outer(society, politics etc). Your observations, if any, are elicited.

Keshni, I don't think it is contradictory. As in the ebb and flow of the ocean, there is no division, there is no division between the inner and the outer. My understanding is, we are products of conditioning so we preceive our environment and the world from this conditioning. From the inner, (subjective & fragmented) we observe, experience, and understand the outer (objective), we judge and conclude and from that conclusion we react. Our reaction goes back into the environment and the world.

Forum: Insights Tue, 16 Jun 2009
Topic: Austerity - the other

Keshni Sahni wrote: Moni, Please see my post on "Outer is the inner" in thought of the day. Krishnamurti seems to have contradicted himself by saying "Outer is the inner" and then by posing the question "Can you live an orderly life in a disorderly society". He seems to be implying that the inner change comes before the outer(society, politics etc). Your observations, if any, are elicited.

Keshni, I don't think it is contradictory. As in the ebb and flow of the ocean, there is no division, there is no division between the inner and the outer. My understanding is, we are products of conditioning so we preceive our environment and the world from this conditioning. From the inner, (subjective & fragmented) we observe, experience, and understand the outer (objective), we judge and conclude and from that conclusion we react. Our reaction goes back into the environment and the world.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Wed, 17 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

I don't have a clear view yet; it's mind boggling.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Wed, 17 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

It is not a waste of time nor is it problematic.

Discussion with the right person /group can be challenging when the information exchanged provides a different percepective.

Forum: Insights Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Austerity - the other

Keshni Sahni wrote: How do you stop it from going inside? And how do you ensure your inner disorder does not go back into environment?(society rather) Also, I am orderly. Is it possible for this order to slowly influence the outer? Do you see my question more clearly now and its relation to outer/inner waves?

  1. You don't stop it. Stopping it would only strengthen it. Stopping is a reaction: defensive , oppressive, etc. Only observe it. Within that observation is the understanding of the deeper /underlying reality of things, environment, people, surroundings, circumstances, and so on. When one comprehends this whole reality, there is a change, an order within. From that order there is a different type of conduct.

  2. yes, conduct changes the environment.

Further elaboration: to understand any matter, one has to start from examning the matter, not reacting. The examination is not stagnant, there is movement, inside. As there is movement inside, there is understanding of the circumstances outside, the choas / environment, and so on. ..and there is change within.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

I wouldn't communicate with an idiot because that would be a waste of both our times.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 19 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

gp garden wrote: Why cut out any possibility for communication in advance? Might it be that it is easier to communicate on some levels with an idiot at ease with life, than with a sharp intellectual looking to dominate a discussion?

Perhaps it could be, I wouldn't know. The verbiage, "idiot" is not part of my vocabulary, here it's used for communication purpose in keeping up with the prior posts. Each individual is situated in their own time and space accordingy to their psychological evolution. In this arena, there is no right or wrong, good or bad. It is up to the individual to desire the change; discussions of any value take place when there is that desire. It is up to the individual to determine, without condemnation, the discussion is of no value.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 19 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed
Monic Devi wrote:

I don't have a clear view yet; it's mind boggling.

As you watch anything?a tree, your wife, your children, your neighbour, the stars of a night, the light on the water, the bird in the sky, anything?there is always the observer?the censor, the thinker the experiencer, the seeker?and the thing he is observing; the observer and the observed; the thinker and the thought. So, there is always a division. It is this division that is time. That division is the very essence of conflict. And when there is conflict, there is contradiction. There is ?the observer and the observed??that is a contradiction; there is a separation. And hence where there is contradiction, there is conflict. And when there is conflict, there is always the urgency to get beyond it, to conquer it, to overcome it, to escape from it, to do something about it, and all that activity involves time.... As long as there is this division, time will go on, and time is sorrow?. J. Krishnamurti

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 19 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

One has created an image "I" and the "Other". The image separates, divides. interesting.

Forum: Awareness in our world today Fri, 19 Jun 2009
Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his..
Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

President Obama just caught a fly during his TV interview- Big News just now!

Krishnan, much needed humor in this serious environment...............thank you.

"Most of us become serious, lose the sense of joyousness. Seriousness which is without joy, without delight, is artifical in most cases, and so must be avoided. If you cultivate seriousness with joy, which springs up because you have Him in your heart, as a part of yourself, then that seriousness takes on a delight instead of turning to morbidity and clumsy expressions. When you see him you must see him out of joy and not out of seriousness. You can only approach Him when you are really happy, when you are really enlightened, when you are really delighted; not through the seriousness of religiosity and a gloomy idea of spirituality". J. Krishnamurti

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 19 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

nick carter wrote: Are we not taking the time to "do something about it" by yacking incessantly, discussing, blabbing on and on? Why not just live with it, quietly, attentively? Why not just observe the contradiction, the conflict one is?

I recognize your frustration, however, "words" are necessary and the ultimate means of communication on online discussions.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 19 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

This topic is for discussion of "the observer and the observed" for which your objective feedback, thoughts are welcome.
For other subject matters, please visit the appropriate forum.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 26 Jun 2009
Topic: Questions and contradiction

it exists within me each and every day i live in contradiction.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Fri, 26 Jun 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

Keshni Sahni wrote: And barking is never a right action ;-)

except.....perhaps for the dog. LOL

Forum: Awareness in our world today Fri, 26 Jun 2009
Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his..

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote: I recommend our forum members to read "TALES OF MULLAH NASRUDDIN"

thanks Krisnan for sharing. I must say Mullah Nasruddin has very interesting thoughts.

Forum: Insights Mon, 29 Jun 2009
Topic: K... and his influence on our everyday lives

Keshni Sahni wrote: If you have made the starting step right, you will go through many layers of self revelation, which is like an onion peeling off one layer after another. It does take time. Not everything you see is pretty. Why are we so conditioned by Krishnamurti's words, that we imprison ourselves with the logic and that too at such a superficial level?

At a very early age I questioned the existence of a personal god, purpose of life, etc.I was at the crossroads, had just departed a unhealthy realtionship. I accidentally found K's first book, if I recall the name correctly, Truth and Actuality, in my father's library. That was the only "K " book he had and said I could have it. As I read, it was almost as if someone was talking to me directly. Since than I find changes and perhaps progress as I head up on the ladder of my psycholoigcal evolution..

As you say Keshni, the layers unfold gradually. I think someplaces K speaks of how an insight causes change instanteously. I have yet to cross this path. I think in Buddist teachings, the change is slow and gradual.

I find many of the words people use here are "K's "words, it is an imitation. And sadly, we are unable to perceive and/or understand the actual person behind these words.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Tue, 14 Jul 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

alan haynes wrote: We could talk about what constitutes a 'clear view'. Do we even understand what is being described

clear view is in the absence of time and space. When there is no time and space, there is no duality of the observer and the observed.

Forum: Serious Debate Wed, 15 Jul 2009
Topic: Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?
Prasanna P wrote:

Why JK's Findings Need To Be Advanced ?

It seems to be a fact that not a single reader of K is claiming to have changed or transformed.

Participants are requested to be accurate, brief and clear as far as possible. Above mentioned points are merely the guides for posting. All new and serious readers are invited to participate in this discussion. K-Quotes may be restricted to one liners as far as possible. Discussions should be issue based rather than personality based,

If I have misunderstood your message than please clarify further. It appears you have concluded none of the readers have changed or transformed. To draw such a conclusion, one must have thoroughly examined ALL the readers of K's teachings.

If I have learned anything from K's teachings, I've learned not to follow authority nor to take an authoritative position. Discussions which are regulated, restrictive, and conditional do not reveal truth. Therefore, the messenger's message will not be revealed with naked truth, but will be heavily conditioned.

Here I post a K quote which is not a "one liner"; feel free to delete it.

"Agreement and acquiescence of the wrong kind breed mediocrity. I would much rather have people who are against all that I say but are struggling to understand, than people who agree with me all the time without understnding. I have found all over the world that I can talk with people who are absolutely unconvinced, who are skeptical, who are prejudiced and who scoff in interviews and at public meetings with greater ease than with those who imitate or blindly follow and thus put a wall between true understanding and themselves".

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Tue, 21 Jul 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

Paul Lanzon wrote: Words,words,words

Paul, perhaps you prefer symbolism for online communication.. my attempts have not been successful thus far.

Paul Lanzon wrote: It's time someone destroyed this illusion that there is an observer and an observed; there is only the act of observing

and ones illusion can be another's reality.

Forum: The answer my friend is blowing in the wind Tue, 21 Jul 2009
Topic: the most famous observer is the observed

Ramesh G wrote: don't think our discussions will be difficult if we all agree to drink silence first

Ramesh, silence is practiced elsewhere and not online, it defeats the purpose of a discussion. When discussions are from the heart (actuality) and not just the mind (an idea of what someone has read) than there is understanding.

Forum: Insights Tue, 21 Jul 2009
Topic: Why are you here?

I come here to share information. I find some of K's teachings repetitive, inconclusive and frustrating at times. Sometimes another's perceptive can fill in that missing peice to the puzzle we call life.

Here I observe ideas of what one has read. I don't sense the actual Being. In reality, words are a means for communication, within those words, we sense the Being. Although this site pertains to K's teachings, was his teachings integrated into the Being, or only in the mind as an idea? One is quite familiar with the ego which is splattered all over this site. It reminds me of the movie, Babel. I find that some folks may find comfort behind K's words, possibly out of fear. Yes, the ego shines brighter than the northern lights.

With all our studies into the teachings of this nature, where the true Self is potentially revealed and /or realized; with all our intellectual theories and ideas, one can only hope, if nothing else, we learned love and compassion, for what else is there.

Forum: Serious Debate Thu, 23 Jul 2009
Topic: K is me

Ron Ziv wrote: Is that selfish?

to seek for truth is not selfish.

Forum: Insights Thu, 23 Jul 2009
Topic: Why are you here?
Therese Okamoto wrote:

where am i?

you are in la la land.

Forum: Serious Debate Thu, 23 Jul 2009
Topic: Education and the K teachings

Thanks!! this was quite entertaining.

Forum: Serious Debate Tue, 28 Jul 2009
Topic: Are We Conditioned ? If So Why?

Yes, we are conditioned. This can be perceived, depending on ones state of consciousness, in the reaction of the individual. The degree of an individual's conditioning is based upon the individual's position on the evolutionary ladder, biologically and psycholoigcally.

Forum: Awareness in our world today Wed, 29 Jul 2009
Topic: The US President, OBAMA & his..
Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

But I am concerned with the pattern emerging in our hero</code>s responses to emergencies related to the eternal "race" question in American politics.Our hero President Obama frets and fumbles, smoothes out feelings later on. He may not get bogged down in this so- called "race-prolem".To keep his cool and delay his responses, would be better for him in the long run. Any comments,dear Americans...

Krishnan, apparently President Obama did get "bogged down", somewhat, but he handled it fairly well,(as usual). In view of the available facts, it was a stupid act of the police officer to arrest Mr. Gates. There was no crime committed, that was evident.

Depending on the indivdual, environment and nation, racism exists. Racism in America has suddenly become more apparent in the recent months.

Forum: Awareness in our world today Wed, 29 Jul 2009
Topic: Organization per se is not the answer to human problems

Organization is a sign of a civilized society. With organization there is progress and growth, individually and universally. What we need in greater numbers, is complete awareness worldwide. With humanity at a advanced peak of evolution, this is possible. But the greed and power of a few elite will not allow this to happen. Especially in America, where the corporations control the government and the politicans while the large number of Americans sleep.