Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Olive B's Forum Activity | 104 posts in 1 forum


Forum: A Quiet Space Thu, 10 Nov 2016
Topic: Krishnamurti's Sutras on Life

Juan E. wrote: Now, where is that everlasting ecstasy? ...

Hi Juan,

I too looked for the promised ecstasy, i thought i had not “arrived” yet, but the word ecstasy or bliss is misunderstood.

Where there is ecstasy/bliss there must also be the opposite, sorrow and pain.

“the now” is nothing, not-a-thing, silence and rest.

This link will explain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYNzbmMUxD4

Best regards,

Olive

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 14 Nov 2016
Topic: A video that could be of interest for some members and occasional visitors here ...

Dan McDermott wrote: can you actually observe 'your' thought while you are engaged in the 'throes' of your life. That might be the way we think that it is supposed to 'work' but does it or are you just 'cruising' on automatic like always?( and "remembering" about all this K. stuff occasionally?) That's how it is for me and obviously, I can't know what someone else is 'doing' no matter what they say.

Dan, i am glad to hear in what way you can observe your thought because i have no one to compare with. In the past I frequently asked my husband: “what are you thinking about?” and his answer was always “I don’t know”. I never understood this because how can you not know what you are thinking! So when I came across spiritual teachers who were saying” observe your thoughts” it became clear to me it is not common to be aware of your thoughts.

Forum: A Quiet Space Tue, 15 Nov 2016
Topic: Poetry and Literature

Lao Tzu’s Tao Te Ching by Stephen Mitchell

The Tao that can be told

is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named

is not the eternal Name.

The unnamable is the eternally real.

Naming is the origin

of all particular things.

Free from desire, you realize the mystery.

Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.

Yet mystery and manifestations

arise from the same source.

This source is called darkness.

Darkness within darkness.

The gateway to all understanding.

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Nov 2016
Topic: Poetry and Literature

Clive, the Tao is difficult to understand, but remember every verse(81) point to the only way.

The Tao is the mystery within the mistery eternally real, the unnamable.

A mysterie in a mysterie, darkness in darkness.

The only way where we can experience the Tao is in our self.

The Tao is the gateway to the eternally real.

Forum: A Quiet Space Thu, 17 Nov 2016
Topic: Does the self really end or the self is always there? ...

Clive Elwell wrote: was exactly does “put together” mean?

About avail (had to look up this word) of a theory of the self. When you are born you get a name. Between 1 and 2 years old the self is starting to “put together”.

Every one says something about you, you are handsome (guapo for you Juan ;) ) you are a slow learner, etc. All these labels are suspended on your name. You belief all the labels and you are acting upon it, it becomes the image of you, the self.

How to observe/investigate the self : The self can only flourish when you are labeling the observed. When you don’t label the observed, the observed(object, emotion, feeling ect)will dissolve eventually. Form can not exist in consciousness.

As long as there is an observer and the observed there is fragmentation. You can check for your self: Look at an object but don’t say what it is…….there is no fragmentation. When you say what it is there is fragmentation.

How do you know the name of the object? you have learned it in the past, it is memory, time. Thus, when you say what it is there is time between you (the observer)and the object(the observed ),you have created division.

When you don’t label the object there is no time, no division/fragmentation.

Thought is memory, time, division/fragmentation.

No thought, no self.

Forum: A Quiet Space Thu, 17 Nov 2016
Topic: Poetry and Literature

Clive Elwell wrote: It may be difficult to understand, but doesn't understanding come through questioning?

The Tao is not only difficult to understand but also difficult to explain because words are missing the point. I rather use the word investigate than understanding, because understanding implies there is something to learn. You have to investigate what is happening in your self real slowly. That is only possible when your mind is quiet.

Clive Elwell wrote: Perhaps the only way we can experience ANYTHING is in our self?

You are right Clive, you can only experience in the body. Experience comes form knowing and knowing from the mind. How do you know that you have an experience? because you know from the past what an experience is.

Clive Elwell wrote: So is the Tao something with ..... how to put this? ...... an independent existence?

The Tao is the the moment you are invited in to the eternally real(the truth). Every time you get to choose whether you stay in the illusionairy world or go beyond it.

The Tao has the ability to multiply itself, thus the invitations are becoming more frequent.

The Tao is the gateway, the threshold, to the eternally real, the comprehensive, the unborn, the uncreated, the unmanifested, pure consciousness.

Forum: A Quiet Space Fri, 18 Nov 2016
Topic: Poetry and Literature

Clive Elwell wrote: If there is such a choice, what is the basis for it? And what is it that chooses?

Hi Clive,

It is more a realization.

Forum: A Quiet Space Sat, 19 Nov 2016
Topic: Has anybody actually changed because of the teachings?

K was, throughout his many talks, questioning his own public if they “get it”.

“I wonder if you see”, “I wonder if you see this ”, “I wonder if you are getting this”,” I wonder if you're meeting all this”,” I wonder if it interests you, all this”, I wonder if you understand”.

After 50 years of teaching, you may expect a certain progress.

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 20 Nov 2016
Topic: Has anybody actually changed because of the teachings?

Juan E. wrote: Why are we inquiring about K himself when we should be inquiring about ourselves? ... Why are we disguising our hypocrisy behind our talking about anyone who shows us clearly how we really are?

The answer on both questions: Because it is much easier.

Buddha-Udanavarga 27:1: The faults of others are easier to see than one’s own; the faults of others are easily seen, for they are sifted like chaff, but one’s own faults are hard to see. This is like the cheat who hides his dice and shows the dice of his opponent, calling attention to the other’s shortcomings, continually thinking of accusing him.

Jesus: Luke 6:41-42 "Why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but don't notice the log in your own eye?(42) Or how can you say to your brother,'Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the log in your eye? Hypocrite! First take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck in your brother's eye.

Forum: A Quiet Space Tue, 22 Nov 2016
Topic: Has anybody actually changed because of the teachings?

david sharma wrote: Ending

Hi Judith, or must I call you David.

Welcome again!

This is a serious forum, with serious people discussing serious subjects.

Posting 15x one sentence in a row is considered disturbing the continuity of the discussion.

I recommend you to take this forum seriously in the future.

Kind regards, Olive.

Forum: A Quiet Space Sat, 03 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Clive Elwell wrote: What is our response to all this?

Hi Clive,

A popular saying amongst Dutch managers is “Doing nothing is not an option”. They form again an other discussion group to do something. Their action comes out of thinking and look what becomes of it, only more problems. We have to come to the understanding that the answers can not come from the same source from where the problems are coming.

The only way we are going to solve this is by being, and if (I say if, because there may be no action at all.) out of that silence there is an action, it is a different action out of a different source. Our responsibility is in the first place, to be silent. Being prior to doing.

(An other question: Why is it so important that we, the human race, are going to survive? After all we are consciousness in any form whatsoever.)

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 04 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Clive Elwell wrote: So what do you mean by “this”

Hi Clive,

By “The only way we are going to solve this ” i mean solving all the so called problems. I say the so called problems because what is a problem? Something happens (fact), and we give our opinion(thougth). It is raining….some one gives his opinion and it becomes “an other lost day”, that is how thought makes a simple rainy day into a problem, and you will suffer.

Clive Elwell wrote: the enormous suffering that is coming to mankind?

What makes us suffer? Thought.

Clive Elwell wrote: if every human being on the planet was suddenly enlightened, and acted with supreme intelligence,

Than there was no problem because yes there was pollution an all that stuff, but no thought to make it into a problem.

Clive Elwell wrote: I am unable to say that it is important or not.

Why are you unable to say if it is important that we survive? You are thinking about it. “our children devastated….”

“Who” wants to survive? The person(identity, ego, etc.)fears death.
Fear can only exist when there is identification with form/your body. In the “quiet space” there is no fear. This it not a form of escape, it is you natural condition.

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 05 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Clive Elwell wrote: we all are responsible of it without exception

Hi Clive and Juan,

Are you taking your responsibility as human being?

The only thing you can do for a starving child, Syrian refugees etc, is take your responsibility as human being. Primarily it is taking responsibility for your state of consciousness, which determines what kind of world you create. Any action out of thought will keep the child starving, the refugee on the run. If you feed the child, give shelter to the refugee out of thought: “you are the helper and they are the helped”, you maintain the division and thus the problem.

Action (or no action) has to come out of the “quiet space”, only then you will not create further problems.

Forum: A Quiet Space Tue, 06 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Who can never stop asking questions?

Who will never be satisfied?

Who loves to do something/anything?

Who is holding you in his grip?

How much energy will it cost to respond to this forum today?

I prefer to be quiet and not be a part of the problem anymore.

I choose to be silent.

Forum: A Quiet Space Thu, 08 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Huguette . wrote: To be aware of fear, anger, jealousy, pleasure, a toothache, a sunset, love, compassion, of being confused about what awareness is, and so on - that awareness is not thought, is it?

Hi Huguette,

To be aware OF …… is still thought. There is still an object and subject.

Forum: A Quiet Space Fri, 09 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Huguette . wrote: Are you saying then that all of life is thought, that life can only be lived, experienced, through thought, that there is nothing else but thought, that there is no difference between a kiss and the memory of a kiss or the idea of a kiss?

Hi Huguette,

What are we aware OF: An object, thoughts, images feelings sensations sights sounds tastes. Awareness is aware OF experience, the body is not aware of experience.

Whatever we are experiencing, we are aware OF. Being aware OF is continuously changing, things appearing and disappearing.

Forum: A Quiet Space Fri, 09 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Tom Paine wrote: The word 'awareness' has been used throughout this thread, and it seems we're not all using it in the same manner.

This is the best explanation I could find about the question Being Aware OF…

“So, whether you are sitting quietly, talking, or playing, are you aware of the significance of every thought, of every reaction that you happen to have? Try it and you will see how difficult it is to be aware of every movement of your own thought, because thoughts pile up so quickly one on top of another. But if you want to examine every thought, if you really want to see the content of it, then you will find that your thoughts slow down and you can watch them. This slowing down of thinking and the examining of every thought is the process of meditation; and if you go into it you will find that, by being aware of every thought, your mind - which is now a vast storehouse of restless thoughts all battling against each other - becomes very quiet, completely still. There is then no urge, no compulsion, no fear in any form; and, in this stillness, that which is true comes into being. There is no <code>you' who experiences truth, but the mind being still, truth comes into it. The moment there is a</code>you' there is the experiencer, and the experiencer is merely the result of thought, he has no basis without thinking.”

http://www.jkrishnamurti.org/krishnamurti-teach...

Forum: A Quiet Space Sat, 10 Dec 2016
Topic: Everything Around Us Is Collapsing

Huguette . wrote: be aware without an object, no?

Hi Huguette,

Yes, awareness/consciousness being aware of it self.

Forum: A Quiet Space Sat, 10 Dec 2016
Topic: What is the use of a hammer?

richard viillar wrote: in a moment of awakening there is a state where there is no question, no inquiry

Yes Richard, in that moment that you describe, is awareness aware of itself.

Thát is the highest meditation. Thát is the essence of all spiritual teachings. Thát is the "quite space".

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 21 Dec 2016
Topic: What is our response to all this?

Clive Elwell wrote: how are we to meet this? How am I to meet this?

Hi Clive,

It is not the event, it is the way we react/respond to the event. When we habitual REACT from the conditioned mind there will be more problems. When we RESPOND from aware presence, the right action can arise. That is the only way we are going to solve our problems.

Forum: A Quiet Space Thu, 29 Dec 2016
Topic: How do you tell your fellow human beings?

Per . wrote: words

Hello Per,

Let us listen to the conversations which K. had with David Bohm and Allan W. Anderson, and notice how carefully they put the words together to formulate a sentence. Here on the forum we reach understanding after exchanging lots of words which are open to different interpretations. U-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d-i-n-g is not awareness is not liberation.

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 22 Jan 2017
Topic: On the root of separation

Mina Martini wrote: Because thought has separated itself from itself, creating a thinker separate from thought,

Are we OK with this?!

Thought itself is a seemingly limited temporarily object, and has no ability to separate or create anything.

What is your own experience?

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 22 Jan 2017
Topic: My thoughts are not my thoughts

Clive Elwell wrote: prove the existence of this collective human consciousness in the human brain.

Are we OK with this?!

Yes, the collective human consciousness exists, but does it exists in the human brain?

What is your own experience?

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 23 Jan 2017
Topic: My thoughts are not my thoughts

Clive Elwell wrote: I am conditioned to associate consciousness with the brain

Sorry Clive, I don’t know anything about neuroscience.

You are conditioned --to believe-- to associate consciousness with the brain.

Now I understand your question about “thought process”. I very much like to know if you have any experience about a --proces-- of thought.

Your experience that thoughts “just appear”, are right. They appear and disappear.

What is it in which thoughts appear and disappear?

And what is it that not appears and disappears, what is it that always remains?

Don’t let anyone tell you what to believe! Find out for yourself.

Forum: A Quiet Space Tue, 24 Jan 2017
Topic: My thoughts are not my thoughts

Clive Elwell wrote: And yet there appears to be something that remains,

Clive Elwell wrote: Can we say a sense of being

Spot-on Clive!

You KNOW that there is SOMETHING that is experienced.

An other word for knowing(/being aware/being conscious)= I

An other word for something=BEING

BEING=I

I= knowledge/consciousness/awareness/ that what always stays the same no matter what.

Who/which is aware of the experience of being aware? I

Thát is what you are.

Now you know yourself as this open empty luminous space-like presence of awareness/consciousness.

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 25 Jan 2017
Topic: On the root of separation

Mina Martini wrote: ON THE ROOT OF SEPARATION

Thought is not the root of separation.

There is only an object (thought) from the point of view of a subject.

From the point of view of the temporarily subject, the object is something separate from it self.

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 25 Jan 2017
Topic: On the root of separation

Clive Elwell wrote: Do we need to draw a distinction between A THOUGHT, and the THOUGHT PROCESS?

Thinking is an appearance, an experience, is must be made of something.

The experience of thinking is made out of consciousness.

The only substance present in the thougth is a knowing of it.

(knowing/knowledge=consciousness)

Remove the knowing from thought and nothing is left.

All what thought is, is the knowng of it.

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 25 Jan 2017
Topic: My thoughts are not my thoughts

Clive Elwell wrote: "knowledge"

You KNOW that there is SOMETHING that is experienced.

What is it that knows (is aware of) our experience? I

I is the knowing element.

I is pure consciousness/pure awareness/knowledge.

Forum: A Quiet Space Fri, 27 Jan 2017
Topic: My thoughts are not my thoughts

Clive Elwell wrote: an equivalence between knowledge and awareness

The knowing is prior to the mind, prior to all names and form.

Forum: A Quiet Space Fri, 27 Jan 2017
Topic: On the root of separation

Clive Elwell wrote: Thought is some sort of chemical/electrical activity in the brain cells, is it not?

You KNOW that there is SOMETHING that is experienced.

The experience of thinking must be made of something.

It is made “out of” consciousness.

Consciousness/awareness/I, is prior to the mind, prior to names and forms.