Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Jess S's Forum Activity | 14 posts in 1 forum


14 posts  |  Page 1 of 1
Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 18 Apr 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

The following is an excerpt taken from a yoga magazine written years ago because of the terrorist attacks that now have become part of our everyday life: 'Christians have a saying that the Devil can quote scripture for his own ends. Sri Ramakrishna said:«Books - I mean, the scriptures - contain a mixture of sand and sugar. The sadhu takes the sugar, leaving aside the sand. He takes only the essence.» There are two relevant ideas here. First, taking the Devil to mean our own unspiritual thoughts and feelings, individual or group, when we use scripture as a guide to action we must examine our own motives. Are we trying, as Prophet Mohammed urges us, «to be free from malice, from morning till night, from night till morning?» Second, some parts of scripture are more valuable than others. Will even the most literal-minded Christian claim that the begats are as important as the Ten Commandments, The Sermon on the Mount, or I Corinthians 13? Will even the most orthodox Hindu say that The Bhavavad Gita is no more important than any part of The Mahabharata? The American College Dictionary defines religion primarily as the quest for the values of the ideal life, involving three phases: the ideal, the practices for attaining the values of the ideal and the theology or worldview relating the quest to the environing universe. When people misuse scripture to justify acting out their hatred, resentment, or lust for power, the result is toxic - to the victim, to the perpetrator, and to the religion professed. Why has religion historically been involved in so much bloodshed and oppression? Because its outer expression through scripture and tradition has been used by the evil tendencies within us to justify even the most horrible action.' Then, in Commentaries on Living by Krishnamurti he tells us at a certain point: ' The other day someone said that he was a «Krishnamurtiite», whereas so-and-so belonged to another group. As he was saying it, he was utterly unconscious of the implications of this identification. (...) To experiment need there be identification? Does not the very act of identification put an end to inquiry, to discovery? The happiness that truth brings cannot be if there is no experimentation in self-discovery. Identification puts an end to discovery; it is another form of laziness. Identification is vicarious experience, and hence utterly false. (...) It is fear that makes for identification. (...) Identification is a refuge. A refuge needs protection, and that which is protected is soon destroyed. What I find is relevant in both excerpts is that both at the root of terrorist action and a lot that's going on in so-called krishnamurti environments there is a lot of this referred malice (by Prophet Mohammed) disguised as a biased interpretation of the teachings which in principle were written to bring wisdom and harmony to human beings.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 16 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: if you had said these things to me three or four years ago, I would not even have listened to you.

The fact is that her husband is gone, so that's what the conversation should be about. Whatever she talked about with Krishnamurti the first time when her husband was very ill, it was a totally different thing because she couldn't have known then what it was like to live without her husband. 'Love' is just a word in this case meaning the ever complex relationship between husband and wife, which anyway in most cases (and as life itself) has different flavours - sweeter or more sour - but just flavours and as such temporary. Krishnamurti just follows the conversation, but behind it all, I think what he's hinting at is what there is in this fortunate poet's quote I happened to find this morning: 'Awareness of emptiness brings about a heart of compassion.'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 17 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: B: We are caught in the habit of search, and I suppose it is the outcome of our dissatisfaction.

I think part of this statement is rightly formulated, which is we search because we are dissatisfied, I don't see that saying 'we are caught in the habit' is right because it goes against the common habit that we're 'secondhand people', which most people are in fact and which means you just follow successful trends, that is, you're not serious about life. What we can enquire about is why we're dissatisfied and seek (those who are serious and face dissatisfaction). We are dissatisfied because we are aware that we don't see things as they really are because of our conditioning and the tool available to seek is thought/reasoning out, which grasps things in fragments by comparing and judging, that's why we need to communicate and get to know about what other people can grasp of life. I don't think that reasoning out in itself necessarily implies conflict, as Krishnamurti here suggests, on the contrary we're trying and bringing together the fragments that we can grasp and see how they make sense together, we're in a process of complementing, not opposing, tha's all.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 17 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: As the 'all controlling' entity is aware that something is lacking inwardly,

I cannot say it is an all-controlling entity and rather than lacking there's always this feeling that there's something wrong about humans, isn't there?

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 18 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

Dan McDermott wrote: I think the 'problem' is thought/time.

Well, we cannot think of nature apart from time, so if we are part of nature, we only have to live according to time. But it is true, I think, that humans have always tried to have power over time, so maybe the problem is we don't understand time, who knows? According to the bible, god created different aspects of nature, one day after the other and then he created man also in time, then he took a rest.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 19 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Greed, even for the Sublime, (eventually ) breeds (frustration & ) sorrow;

We tend to understand this in an abstract way, we just feel we are very 'competent' people because we can understand it as a fact and it stays there. Today I read H Wolfe's testimony to E Blau's comment that Krishnamurti must have had quite an impact on his life:"He changed my life completely.I quit my business because I realized that I was the same kind of a human being that everybody else was.(...) I made a lot less money but I enjoyed... ' (Krishnamurti, 100 Years)

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 20 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: there are a couple of inconsistencies

I'm sure you're right in more than just one sense, even! In this case, I don't know anything about this Harry Wolfe's life apart from what Evelyn Blau tells us, but the important thing here is that this man for some reason did listen to Krishnamurti to the point that it changed his life so that he no longer indulged in making profit by cheating people, it doesn't mean that he got enlightened but it means that he could see the immorality of current society and was courageous enough to move away from it. It reminds me of someone who once told me in India he had been a student in Krishnamurti's Rajghat school which was a wonderful time in his life, but then he became an engineer and he just followed what society demanded from him. Now and then he would come and visit the school and remember the happy times of his childhood! Now, about what you mention Krishnamurti said when he was about to die, I think he said it when S Forbes was there recording or something. Well, if he really meant something really, I understand he specially wanted to make it clear that there was nobody that could take his place. He was rather particular I think all his life about this, I remember how he reacted when he was told Vimala Thakar was saying the same things that he used to say, for example! And some masters left behind a special disciple, and in the bible we have the episode of Jesus specially addressing Peter with this purpose. Anyway, Krishnamurti could not know about whether anybody in the world was 'living the teachings', I don't think it's reasonable to take his words in that sense.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 21 Jun 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Summer in Europe (in 'Notebook'): 'It was a warm day and there were plenty of shadows; the rocks shone with a solid brilliance. The dark pines never seemed to move, unlike those aspens which were ready to tremble at the slightest whisper. There was a strong breeze from the west, sweeping through the valley. The rocks were so alive that they seemed to run after the clouds and the clouds clung to them, taking the shape and the curve of the rocks; they flowed around them and it was difficult to separate the rocks from the clouds. And the trees were walking with the clouds. The whole valley seemed to be moving and the small, narrow paths that went up the woods and beyond seemed to yield and come alive. And the sparkling meadows were the haunt of shy flowers. But this morning rocks ruled the valley; they were of so many colours that there was only colour; those rocks were gentle this morning.'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 21 Jun 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Hello, John! Thank you for highlighting such a delicate description of nature. It happens that we're in the beginning of summer which some people celebrate with fireworks and dancing in the moonlight. I think it's always appropriate to read whatever Krishnamurti feels like telling us about what surrounds him, his descriptions of nature are themselves a celebration.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 24 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Civilizations may vary according to climate, environment, food and so on, but (the ethical requirements of any humane ) culture throughout the world are fundamentally the same: to be compassionate, to shun evil, to be generous not to be envious, to forgive, and so on. Without these any civilization will disintegrate or be destroyed.

This could have been a fundamental issue of the discussion really! That is, the issue is ethics which really is the core of human society. I would add aesthetics to this and I think that together they are some sort of driving invisible forces that make up human societies. So the question is what their origin are. I would say that compassion has to do with ethics and aesthetics has to do with beauty.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 24 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

Dan McDermott wrote: The 'origins' of compassion can be seen among the animals and their familial relations. "Beauty' as a concept, seems a particularly human idea, though in nature the colorful plumage, the dazzling flowers, the elaborate nest building etc, function as a means of 'attraction'.

Well, the closer I can get to finding compassion in animals is probably 'Winnie the Pooh' collection, but of course that's fiction. (I don't know, maybe you're right, but it doesn't mean that it isn't a human feature as well) Of course compassion and beauty don't equate with selfcentredness, so our societies today can only be unethical and unaesthetic and this is quite dramatic really because it means societies are destroying themselves, as actually that's what Krishnamurti is saying here!

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 24 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: this pioneering work

I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this! I think all genuine 'work' is pioneering only in the sense that it is living in the land of the unknowing.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 24 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

Dan McDermott wrote: Real compassion has no limits nor does love, I think that is his 'message'.

I'm quite sure, it can only be real compassion that Krishnamurti talks about. Whatever else expressions of affection there exist in animal they are still affection but they are not compassion. Compassion I mentioned as being in the field of ethics, but ethics covers probably the whole field of human behaviour, so is that an archetype, if society becomes completely unethical is it bound to destroy itself? I think that's what Krishnamurti is suggesting here.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 25 Jun 2017
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Thought can even project its own version of the 'unknown' - a very slippery ground indeed

Yes,indeed. But the unknown is what is not our work, definitely. Unknowing is our work though, it's a dynamic process of awareness and humility. Insight will come if it has to come.

14 posts  |  Page 1 of 1