Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Jess S's Forum Activity | 9 posts in 1 forum


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Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 19 Sep 2016
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

david sharma wrote: The Pilgrim and his Holy Pilgrimage Part 2. The Pilgrim and his Holy Pilgrimage

Beautiful title I hadn't come across before, just wonder what this pilgrimage is about and on what grounds classified as 'holy'! These days we must wonder to what extent this material is originally from Krishmamurti or at least approved by him, as with so much editing there may be many distortions of the original meaning. Just revisited Huxley's foreword of 'The First And Last Freedom' where the author extensively talks about language and how it works on people's minds, and he tackles the subject right at the beginning of the foreword:'Man is an amphibian who lives simultaneously in two worlds - the given and the homemade, the world of matter, life and consciousness and the world of symbols. In our thinking we make use of a great variety of symbol-systems - linguistic, mathematical, pictorial, musical, ritualistic. Without such symbol-systems we should have no art, no science, no law, no philosophy, not so much as the rudiments of civilization, in other words we should be animals. Symbols, then are indispensable. But symbols - as the history of our own and every other age makes so abundantly clear - can also be fatal. (...) In the second case symbols originally ill-chosen were never subjected to thoroughgoing analysis and never reformulated so as to harmonize with the emergemt facts of human existence. Worse still, these misleading symbols were everywhere treated with a wholly unwarranted respect, as though, in some mysterious way, they were more real than the realities to which they referred. (...) Even the best cookery book is no substitute for even the worst dinner. (...) «Only the spirit» said St Paul, gives life, the letter kills». «And why», asks Eckhart, «why do you prate of God? Whatever you say of God is untrue». At the other end of the world the author of one of the Mahayana sutras affirmed that «the truth was never preached by the Buddha, seeing that you have to realize it within yourself.»'...etc

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 05 Nov 2016
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Krishnamurti also wrote about the 'marvellous earth'and because autumn has arrived and he meant places like Brockwood Park to be part of it here it is from 'Beginnings of Learning': 'We had been walking through the English countryside among the open fields; there were pheasants, a clear blue sky and the light of the early evening. The slow quiet autumn was coming in. Leaves were turning yellow and red and dropping from the huge trees. Everything was waiting for winter... Walking along the fields and climbing over a stile you came to a grove of many trees and several redwoods... There were great blooms of hydrangeas and rhodendrons which would flower in several months, but none of these things mattered or rather they gave a benediction to this spot'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 21 Dec 2016
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Winter in Europe (in The Only Revolution, part 9):'The day began rather cloudy and dull and the naked trees were silent in the wood. Through the wood you could see crocuses, daffodils and bright yellow forsythia... A few rain drops fell and the wood was deserted.'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 03 Jan 2017
Topic: What are the 'facts'?

Daniel Paul. wrote: As you know, I do not use the word meditate...

This reminded me of Krishnamurti saying that 'we live in a world of misunderstanding'(I think in one of the Saanen talks, 1968, more literally, but in different ways at different times, also). Words are important, but they have slightly different meanings for each one of us, not to mention Krishnamurti himself who kept telling us that meditation, creativeness, love, religion, ... are not what people generally understand about their meaning!!! Also we live in a world of misunderstanding because we were fatally born associated to a self and we are taught from the beginning that we have to make the best of this self, whereas Krishnamurti is often understood as saying that we, on the contrary, must get rid of the self. The fact is we don't know what we are, that is the 'malaise' of living the way I understand it, this is our basic anguish and perpetual frustration, because we grow up in one direction and never achieve any goal like the realization of the self... and this is the flaw of living! In the light of the self, and as the oldest film director of the world asserted not long before he died last year 106 years old, life is always bound to be a defeat! This is the 'malaise' of living, the way society demands from us to live.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 04 Jan 2017
Topic: What are the 'facts'?

Daniel Paul. wrote: None is left for life.

Hello, Daniel. Thank you for putting it so clearly. I think this is in a way what Krishnamurti means when he says we're secondhand beings or lazy and he qualifies as 'petty' the way we live. Really we are not able to stand alone, we completely depend on other people's approval and all we can do is spend all the time trying to copy those who are looked at as the ones who have succeeded in life. And it can happen in all sorts of unexpected situations, really! The other day I was watching a television programme on the victims of that pill called talidomida and I still don't exactly know what to think of the statements made by all those people without arms or with misplaced hands or with no/ too many fingers, who considered themselves heroes because they could get married and have children with two legs and two arms and two hands!! Also just watch the paralympic games with people exerting out all their energy just to prove that although they are blind or don't have legs they can compete at some level! I'm sure the problem lies in some sort of psychological crisis that is affecting humanity, it is just competition that people are heading to and I would say that the 'mental bug' is some condition that we may call 'predator'where nothing is genuine.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 06 Jan 2017
Topic: What are the 'facts'?

Daniel Paul. wrote: thought seems to have reached its ultimate capacity of escape....so the crisis....thought is in crisis, deep crisis...

Well not an easy task is not it ?

Not an easy task indeed, and Krishnamurti keeps pressing us to keep things simple! People just get entangled with intellectual explanations of how thought comes about, but I think that is absolutely useless if we are concerned about a sane, religious mind. So I don't know if it is correct to say that thought is in a crisis, as thought is just this precious function that human beings are endowed with and which helps us make sense of the world. The problem that modern society is facing now, I feel, is that there is this disgusting trend of alienation from the world as it is and we are producing things out of concepts on concepts... What we call art these days just shows this: music, architecture, painting, sculpture, even literature... barren and sad, I would say. I mean, thought does not change in its function, but the use we make of it is the crisis. I was just looking at some pages of a book by A D Dhopeshwarkar called 'J Krishnamurti and Awareness in Action', and I found the following bit that may be interesting to reflect on: 'Between one thought and the next, there is a gap which is occupied by the silent mind; and because it is silent it is felt as an empty gap. Krishnamurti tells us that these gaps even when they last for a split second have all the qualities of the silent mind. He also explains that these gaps can be widened to any extent. This teaching sometimes creates confusion because listeners try to hunt out these gaps but fail to find them, both because they last only a split second and also because consciously to search for what in its nature is non-conscious is a contradiction in terms.' I find this is very interesting, because in the end people are concentrating on the noise looking for silence!! It is the 'wrong turn', this lethal drive for appropriation that is there at the backstage all the time.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 09 Jan 2017
Topic: What are the 'facts'?

Daniel Paul. wrote: Experimentally I know nothing about a gap between two thoughts, I know about the moment when the pressure of whatever like pain ,discontentment etc takes it over for some unpredictable time, quite short in itself...what it does is in fact quite simple as such, it stops the split in two sides like/dislike operated by thought...so it stops thought's analysing...

Yes, we know this space in between thoughts must exist otherwise we couldn't say we have had another thought, there would only be one thought... So, we either are just talking out of logic without any proof or it's just words that really cannot express accurately what this human living is all about. For example, at times Krishnamurti seems to discard the word'seeker', he even may suggest we are dumb when he cleverly says that you don't search what you don't know, when you seek you must look for something you can recognize, so how can you say that you are a truth seeker if truth is the unknown?!! This sounds perfectly rational... however... This 'discontentment' we all know about really is the trigger to make us 'seek'... Maybe some people are just looking for the opposite of what they are 'discontented' about, but many others along the history of man speak of 'seeing the light', 'the holy grail', etc. Can we then ask the 'impossible question' here? Could it be - also putting it logically - that if indeed our brains are very old (meaning, having it basically recorded with experience since the beginning of man) that human beings that are 'seekers' are looking for 'the light' that they somehow communed with when they were created?? Is this really an 'impossible question'? Words do fail us, as for example the author of 'The cloud of unknowing' acknowledges when he tries to explain: 'Do not suppose, because I call it a darkness or a cloud, that it is a cloud condensed out of the vapours that float in the air, or a darkness like that in your house at night when your candle is out. By intellectual ingenuity you can imagine such a darness or cloud brought before your eyes on the brightest day of summer, just as, conversely, in the darker night winter you can imagine a clear shining light. Give up such errors; that is not what I mean. For when I say darkness I mean an absence of knowing, in the sense that everything you do not know, or HAVE FORGOTTEN, is dark to you, because you cannot see it with your mind's eye. And for this reason it is not called a cloud in the air but a cloud of unknowing that is between you and your God.'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 11 Jan 2017
Topic: What are the 'facts'?

Daniel Paul. wrote: thought does its job according to its set up....beyond its field of competence if it is not about practicality ...then mass killing, stealing ,destruction etc is only perceived as solving a specific problem..human beings are then perceived as concepts, ideas in the way etc and why not get rid of concepts which are in the way between me and my desires..

That's it! I would say even that's the way modern society is living today. As to thought being the cause of suffering, originally, I think it is a matter for inquiry. Of course buddhists would immediately answer that craving and attachment are the cause of suffering, but... we, human beings, don't know where we come from and what is already inscribed on the 'slate' when each one of us is born.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 11 Jan 2017
Topic: What are the 'facts'?

Daniel Paul. wrote: in a modern society there is only one time, the one to fight by all means....so spent in conflict with others..organised ,developed and promoted by the crook leading the flock to steal it as much as possible..

Hello, Daniel! Thank you for sharing some of your reflections on all this affair of living in this modern society. What you are describing here is also what I see, so really I don't approve of modern mass education that is producing such cynical superfluous human beings basically concerned about taking advantage of whatever and whoever they find around them, as much as possible and as quickly as possible, too. In 1928, when Krishnamurti wrote 'Life in Freedom' there is however hope for every single human being, as he says that in spite of going through 'life after life' and through 'shrine after shrine', 'he [man] goes forward towards that goal which awaits him as it awaits all men'. However, in later years, Krishnamurti speaks of the urgency of change, he said that 'the house is burning', so maybe what he wrote in 1928 was written because there was not yet the perception that 'time' does not have just one measure of the calendar and the clock, but it has sped up with the new technologies and the ticking of emotions being left in the open upsets any notion of time.

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