Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Jess S's Forum Activity | 11 posts in 1 forum


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Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 19 Sep 2016
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

david sharma wrote: The Pilgrim and his Holy Pilgrimage Part 2. The Pilgrim and his Holy Pilgrimage

Beautiful title I hadn't come across before, just wonder what this pilgrimage is about and on what grounds classified as 'holy'! These days we must wonder to what extent this material is originally from Krishmamurti or at least approved by him, as with so much editing there may be many distortions of the original meaning. Just revisited Huxley's foreword of 'The First And Last Freedom' where the author extensively talks about language and how it works on people's minds, and he tackles the subject right at the beginning of the foreword:'Man is an amphibian who lives simultaneously in two worlds - the given and the homemade, the world of matter, life and consciousness and the world of symbols. In our thinking we make use of a great variety of symbol-systems - linguistic, mathematical, pictorial, musical, ritualistic. Without such symbol-systems we should have no art, no science, no law, no philosophy, not so much as the rudiments of civilization, in other words we should be animals. Symbols, then are indispensable. But symbols - as the history of our own and every other age makes so abundantly clear - can also be fatal. (...) In the second case symbols originally ill-chosen were never subjected to thoroughgoing analysis and never reformulated so as to harmonize with the emergemt facts of human existence. Worse still, these misleading symbols were everywhere treated with a wholly unwarranted respect, as though, in some mysterious way, they were more real than the realities to which they referred. (...) Even the best cookery book is no substitute for even the worst dinner. (...) «Only the spirit» said St Paul, gives life, the letter kills». «And why», asks Eckhart, «why do you prate of God? Whatever you say of God is untrue». At the other end of the world the author of one of the Mahayana sutras affirmed that «the truth was never preached by the Buddha, seeing that you have to realize it within yourself.»'...etc

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 05 Nov 2016
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Krishnamurti also wrote about the 'marvellous earth'and because autumn has arrived and he meant places like Brockwood Park to be part of it here it is from 'Beginnings of Learning': 'We had been walking through the English countryside among the open fields; there were pheasants, a clear blue sky and the light of the early evening. The slow quiet autumn was coming in. Leaves were turning yellow and red and dropping from the huge trees. Everything was waiting for winter... Walking along the fields and climbing over a stile you came to a grove of many trees and several redwoods... There were great blooms of hydrangeas and rhodendrons which would flower in several months, but none of these things mattered or rather they gave a benediction to this spot'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 21 Dec 2016
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Winter in Europe (in The Only Revolution, part 9):'The day began rather cloudy and dull and the naked trees were silent in the wood. Through the wood you could see crocuses, daffodils and bright yellow forsythia... A few rain drops fell and the wood was deserted.'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 09 Feb 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: To meditate is to transcend time.

Usually Krishnamurti keeps meditation as a theme apart for the last day of a sequence of talks and it doesn't seem to express the same sort of environment all the time. Maybe that's why one of the books specifically on this matter is called 'Meditations' and not meditation. For example, in his talk in Madras (1983) he says: 'Meditation is to live a diligent life. Meditation is not separate from daily living, it is not going off into a little corner, meditating for twenty minutes every day or every afternoon, every evening, that is just having a siesta'. It seems to be obvious that here he just wants to question habit and not meditation itself, because meditation may happen also in 'a little corner', why not? So, in this same talk he keeps talking about what he means about meditation in daily living, but again it sounds at times somewhat contradictory: 'There is no system. System implies practice. Practice means measurement - from what you are to what you want to be, and you may be practising the wrong note. And probably you are. You call that meditation. That meditation is totally separate from your daily living. Find out whether it is possible to live a daily life of meditation which means no measurement at any time. In meditaton, there is no control because the controller is the controlled. In meditation there is no will because will is desire . The essence of desire is will - I will meditate. I will practise this day after day. Meditation implies awareness, awareness of the earth, the beauty of the earth, the dead leaf, the dying dog, to be aware of your environment, to be aware of your neighbour, to be aware of the colours you carry, why you wear that colour and those beads, to be aware of that. To be aware of the beauty of the wind among the leaves, to be aware of your thoughts, your feelings, that is, to be aware without choice - just to be aware. That heightens your sensitivity - to observe diligently everything. When you say I will do something, do it never fogetting what you have said. Do not say something you don't mean. That is part of meditation.' Here he states 'you may be practising the wrong note. And probably you are'. It sounds like quite bitter words and he leaves it to us to find out where the dissonance is, if there is one as he suggests there is!!

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 09 Feb 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: the only definition of meditation that I would personally keep for practical purposes would be that of the mind taking a free flight out of the known.

Of course when saying 'the mind taking a free flight' may be understood as an act of the will and so it would either just be illusion or imagination. Also, when Krishnamurti identifies something as 'part of meditation' or when he says, for example, that 'it opens the door to the incalculable, to the measureless', he seems to mean that meditation is a process so it can't be understood just as something out of time. What I think is crucial is that there is the quality of a religious mind, an innocency in the approach.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 11 Feb 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: Pleasure is violent, for desire and will are the moving factors in it. Love cannot be begotten by thought, or by good works. The denial of the total process of (self-centred ?) thought becomes the beauty of action, which is love. Without this there is no bliss of truth.

To say that 'the denial of the total process of thought becomes the beauty of action, which is love' sounds very appealing but at te same time somehow bewildering as there seems to be a definition of love either as the denial of the total process of thought or as the beauty of action. Well, somewhere else (in the book Meditations) Krishnamurti speaks differently: 'Meditation is really very simple. We complicate it. We weave a web of ideas around it - what it is and what it is not. But it is none of these things. Because it is so very simple it escapes us, because our minds are so complicatd, so time-worn and time-based. And this time dictates the activity of the heart, and then the trouble begins. But meditation comes naturally, with extraordinary ease, when you walk on the sand or look out of your window or see those marvellous hills burnt by last summer's sun. Why are we such tortured human beings, with tears in our eyes and false laughter on our lips? If you could walk alone among those hills or in the woods or along the long, white, bleached sands, in that solitude you would know what meditation is. The ecstasy of solitude comes when you are NOT FRIGHTENED TO BE ALONE - no longer belonging to the world or attached to anything.' This particular detail of not being frightened to be alone in the sense of not being attached to anything certainly is not easy and probably that's what answers Krishnamurti's question here: 'why are we such tortured human beings, with tears in our eyes and false laughter on our lips?'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 12 Feb 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: Being 'alone' would imply taking the present moment 'as is'- which does actually happen

That's also one more aspect of meditation, I would say, and the other crucial ingredient is silence, all these integrate being alone. Krishnamurti tells us about this inner silence like this (taken from the book Meditations): 'As you watched, a great stillness came into you. The brain itself became very quiet, without any reaction, without a movement, and it was strange to feel this immense stillness. 'Feel' isn't the word. The quality of that silence, that stillness, is not felt by the brain, it is beyond the brain. The brain can conceive, formulate or make a design for the future, but this stillness is beyond its range, beyond all imagination, beyond all desire. You are so still that your body becomes completely part of the earth, part of everything that is still'. It's interesting that this excerpt could feel like a beautiful piece of poetry if it didn't introduce the idea of the brain... Probably Krishnamurti is always concerned about expurgating his text of any tinge of sentimentality though I don't think Krishnamurti really knew much about what is happening to the brain itself and it doesn't matter at all. But when Krishnamurti says 'as you watched...' immediately we understand that there is in all this deep awareness.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 16 Feb 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: What is the state of the mind when it sees this? The ( self-identified ?) mind cannot understand the Now, which is the New. It is a fact, like a wall is a fact. What happens when you see as a fact that the mind cannot understand the ‘now?’ What is the state of your mind?”

The way I understand this is that the now is the new and because it is recognised as new you are silent, because if it is new there is no background for it... But this sequence doesn't seem to me other than thought. Of course we come across just in everyday life with things we cannot recognise, but it doesn't follow that we become silent inside because of that... probably more often than not the mind just wants to find a way how to face what is new. What I see here is that being confronted with what you don't know is not enough for you to become silent inside and here it doesn't even seem to be as mandatory that 'you don't know' in order to get into silence. I was looking the other day at testimonies of some action in the context of meditation more in the sense of the transformation of the brain cells as presented for example by the integral yoga of Sri Aurobindo, but I came across the following 'transcendental' experience of the Mother, which I think she called the Supramental Manifestation on Earth: 'This evening, the Divine Presence, concrete and material, was there present amongst you. I had a form of living gold, bigger than the universe, and I was facing a huge and massive golden door which separated the world from the Divine. As I looked at the door, I knew and willed in a single movement of consciousness that the time had come and lifting with both hands a mighty golden hammer I struck one blow, one single blow on the door and the door was shattered to pieces. Then the supramental light and force and consciousness rushed down upon earth in an uninterrupted flow'. And this is the Mother's exlanation on the event: 'You will hardly understand what I have written, but try to keep your mind quiet and receive it. Of course there was no need for any verbal formulation as far as I was concerned. In order to put it into words for others I wrote everything down. But always, in writing, a realisation, a state of consciousness, gets limited: the very act of expression narrows the reality to a certain extent. What happened on February 29, 1956, is not so much a vision or an experience as something done. During the Evening Meditation on the playground I went up into the Supermind and saw that something had to be done and did it. (...) When I came down from the Supermind after that flood of light had swept all over the universe, I thought that since the outpour was so stupendous everybody who had been sitting before me in the playground would be lying flat. But on opening my eyes I saw everyone still sitting up quietly: they seemed perfectly unconscious of what had happened.' This statement is very interesting from different perspectives and there is always the question of what really is lacking so that transformation takes place.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 17 Feb 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: Probably in K's case we should bear in mind that he meant the new in the transformational sense (something like 'being born again

Hello, John! Not always and I think in the passage you chose he was simply giving an example of how the mind responds when confronted with something unknown, generally. Of course the mind cannot respond immediately because there is no background for it and there is this fraction of time in which the mind finds no possible solution. I think what he means is just this fraction of time to be held as if it could follow naturally and I think that that is not what generally happens... actually that is one reason why to put aside some time for meditation is right to do, because it will give us mental space to face the untrodden paths of the mind instead of rushing into finding solutions. As to the episode of the Mother which took place on 29th February, 1956, it's interesting really that what Krishnamurti confides talking to Bohm in the following passage somehow has similarities with the Mother's 'vision': 'K:One night in India I woke up; it was a quarter past twelve, I looked at the watch. And - I hesitate to say this because it sounds extravagant - the source of all energy had been reached. And that had an extraordinary effect on the brain. And also physically. I'm sorry to talk about myself, but, you understand, literally, there was no division at all; no sense of the world, of ¨me¨. You follow? Only this sense of a tremendous source of energy. DB: So, the brain was in contact with this source of energy? K: Yes, and as I have been talking for over sixty years, I would like others to reach this - no, not reach it. You understand what I am saying? All our problems are solved. Because it is pure energy from the very beginning of time. Now how am I - not I, you understand - how is one not to teach, not to help or push, but how is one to say: this way leads to a complete sense of peace, of love?'

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 18 Feb 2017
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: it must have been some 'timeless event' that concerned the whole consciousness of mankind

Well, this we cannot know, but actually both Krishnamurti and the Mother at times complained that people just carried on with their petty problems and fantasies, always pursuing the old habits of conflict in their relationship with each other and which is turning society into chaos.This light that they experienced brought about all these schools where authority is a banned word and a special care and respect for nature are cherished, but their impact in the world doesn't seem to come out in any way. Thank you for telling us about your dream on that particular day. Dreams have different sources in our inmost and may expose mental channels of connection, so maybe it was just Krishnamurti's way of saying goodbye. Just opening Krishnamurti's Notebook at random, I found this very precise statement about meditation: 'Meditation is danger for it destroys everything, nothing whatsoever is left, not even a whisper of desire, and in this vast, unfathomable emptiness there is creation and love.' This 'creation and love' have brought about places like Brockwood Park and Auroville.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner 1 day ago
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: as a dreamer I took it literally for an UFO...

I understand you're telling us about a dream, actually, different dreams that you took in a sequence, right? It makes more sense that you interpreted it as a UFO than as Krishnamurti himself! And in the end it wasn't even a UFO because it was just a dream. Of course it's up to you to believe whatever you want to believe, only we must be careful not to indulge in speculations if we love truth, I think. There are so many books about Krishnamurti's identity: Holroyd's, Sanat's, Field's and others and to them I think Krishnamurti says:'Friend, do not concern yourself with who I am, you will never know' (cited on this Kinfonet site under Krishnamurti tag). Of course we also know that he encouraged people to tell what they thought about him, but I think he just meant to do it when you need a break from the deep serious matters of our life. In the book 'The inner life of Krishnamurti', in the chapter dealing with Maitreya, we read that Krishnamurti stated: 'The maitreya cannot manifest, it would be like the sky manifesting. It is the teaching that manifests.' It may be just a small detail, but anyway Krishnamurti always said that the teachings are all that matters, not the man.

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