Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Daniel Paul.'s Forum Activity | 243 posts in 3 forums


Forum: General Discussion Thu, 25 Jun 2015
Topic: The Doctrine of the 'Moon'

Patricia Hemingway wrote: And - in genuine inquiry - K is not the authority. As he very well understood - there is no authority.

Hello Patricia, just passing by the neighbourhood to say a quick hello cup of tea and sandwiches..

would you agree to say that k was in fact "simply" and as factually as possible telling his life's story in the very depth of it and not some intellectual guesses or whatever else, false...having been in touch for himself with something so unusual and in goodness in his life that he had to speak of it all his life, probably seeing that in that direction lies all non human answers to our petty insane problems ??

no need for an answer, it is more to say hello ...

Nice visiting you..

Bye now ..

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 08 Aug 2015
Topic: What are dulling factors?

dhirendra singh wrote:

randall merryman wrote:

Why, after all these centuries, can we not find a way to see/hear without the distortion/bias/interference of our conditioning? Are we too stupid?

Well mainly because, we are going to die...so why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

Hello dhirendra, long time no see....good to meet you ..

If "it" happens by chance then we all should play the lotto too, in case..

I don't see how we could have a direct influence on a presence of a mythic "it", as for me "it" is not a subject in our reach at all as an analyser, if there is a "it" at all.

to seek for "it" may in fact indicate that my life is a mess and empty so sort of painfully dull and boring by all means as it is....

When this feeling is there, feeling being a fact then, as the analyser stupidly thinks that me is one thing and the mess of my life is another one...it is caught until death into this trap, which is dark, painful ,meaningless etc etc etc....end of the sad story...nevertheless not knowing that deeply then I put my runners on and try hard to analytically find out something better, like....world domination !!!wow !!!! that is a great goal is no it..those nuts are practically ready now to commit something ..perhaps irreparable....possibly..yet such immediate possible danger does not produce any change at all in our global conduct...

but no word even closer to truth describing, if there is such truth of course, does not sufficiently really help I think, at some stage much more like a real X doing needs to take place...

well good luck then :-))

cheers..

how are you keeping those days..??

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 08 Aug 2015
Topic: What are dulling factors?

randall merryman wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

If "it" happens by chance then we all should play the lotto too, in case..

It seems most invest, more or less, in the spiritual lotto, so to speak......gotta at least buy a ticket, eh? ;)

Of course why not?

In that case, there seem to be the vital need to try that lotto really hard and widely then too see any validity in any quest but for that a signal of wrongness for me is vitally needed. For me sorrow ,pain, suffering,discontentment etc are proving again and again to be real such "landmark"s which say: this is wrong..then I can try again and again different options yes..it may lead nowhere which is where I actually already am..

but If I have no such "landmark" which are giving ,for me , real non personal advices about what is wrong, then I am surely lost only in pure analysing yes/no and again why not if one wishes to do so...

there is no problem with that as such as we apparently have been left alone with such job to go into or never....when a start in a different direction brought,according to my experience, by correctly living the sorrow of a so called life which simply is my state of mind, when I live it and do nothing else wit it, nor expect anything,which is huge for the analyser but it can do it as I know that , then a little helper may assist us yes...

The sorrow of life then have played its catalyst job..as for me it is a symptom and a little helper too....

But i understand dhirendra when he says:

dhirendra singh wrote: why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

Because the analytical search is really some heavy burden..there is a handful winners every 2500 years....by remaining analytical I am then going to increase the pain, in my case such doing was both unbearable and right....then out of such stupid self inflicted misery ,not aware that it is self inflicted from scratch of course,something always unexpected may be there but cleanly i cannot count on that at all in fact..unexpected like some of the deep goodness of life...

so what is left ? for me one thing , there is sorrow just live it...

now this does not appeal in a sort of Hollywood-like world....and here well I do not care if it does or not....that is what we call freedom of choice....freedom is an evil word for me ;-))

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 09 Aug 2015
Topic: What are dulling factors?

dhirendra singh wrote: And nice to read you :)

:-)..............................

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 02 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

Hello.......John...

Are k words a teaching ? perhaps. A sharing for sure...

60 years of attempted unfolding to others of the functioning of thought, which I call analytical process.. Many times k stressed that awareness of the self is vital...this is where I am myself... the time through sorrow has brought many "things" the surprisingly revealing about much of the program called thought itself is one of them....

It shows why desire there is, how it works for example and more... We may go a bit into that at some stage...

must go now

Cheers.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 03 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Indeed, Dan, a teaching based on sharing an extra-ordinary inner experience. So, even if he was constantly denying that he taught a certain approach to one's inner reality, for the good listener there is a learning. Another view of his teachings is that they are an unlearning- in the sense of learning to drop off a redundant psycho accumulations. unfortunately these very accumulations constitute the data base of the ego- which explains the total lack of interest in this deeper investigation of the human psyche. So it is learning in a far more universal sense: learning about life and death and eventually about integrating them and transcending their materialistic limitation

hello John....Is there a learning as such? i think the learning about one's self,thought,brain etc...is personal at this level, then someone like k by telling his path and deep experiences,which had to be as widely as possible said no doubt about that, somehow may be delivering something to someone which can trigger something , many things...here it is , for me from scratch entering into the unknown, or at least be aware that this is what the concern is now..

une parenth├Ęse: it is amazing how we put things upside down, where the global is what matters vitally the most then it includes the vitally needed personal "we" (some ) say the personal is first , I mention the production and sharing of all vital needs by and for all..which is war as k mentioned that, and where the personal is what comes vitally first, then we sort of go along with some global views under the guidance of someone ,anyone , a method,a religion, anything but never me and.....me....

the total lack of interest ,yes indeed John...

Death ,as an absolute fact of the future, for me has a vital role to play mentally in the psyche....thinking expands itself in the future, today is sad tomorrow will be heaven of course, when doing so the analyser meets death, I have seen that alas for us due to our superficiality ,this is happening at a level which has become non conscious for us, yet it is happening and when the analyser meets death , it meets it only when and where it is trying to search for an absolute continuity of any of his rejected or adored desires ...

this is creating ,still unconsciously a mental pain, which of course is a signal of wrongness. never perceived anymore.....etc. etc etc

result is pain, attempt to escape from it, yet I have no clue about what it is....a life of escaping has started the day I really meet death as a fact which disturb me too much, but what I do not know is why it is so disturbing,I think that it is about death itself as a root, not at all, it is because death as a fact of the future is negating continuity, so is negating the leadership of thought in such fields.......

that was two insights which happened....

so yes it is about integrating but the will to do so brings nothing one more time of course..

what is left ? same old story

cheers...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 04 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Indeed, Dan, this may be the root cause of one's mataphysical sorrow but what you- and K - are calling escaping is what the brain is instinctively doing when faced with issues it cannot fully grasp or understand ( which are beyond its control) . So a fuite en avant time generating process is set going, creating its own continuity; it is self-sustained simply because it has become part of me- I am aware of my mortality. But then, this is describing the whole psychological history of mankind. This being the case, my view is that there is nothing that can be done at this level- the problem is truly insoluble for the traditional self-centred human mind.

Hi John....

Well that is precisely the idea and the fact that it is insoluble, but we do not know that generally speaking;then the analytical mind is so trying somehow randomly , hopelessly ,fearfully etc to solve what is insoluble..in fact here is that, not superficially but beyond that level, the analysing keeps doing its work in secret of this so called "I" , and as I have seen twice in deep real insights, one basement of thought is continuity, in an indirect manner because one of its real concern is not to deal with any end but with good work, steady work ,something which works, which last like a shelter..

Death as a fact of the body for the future is denying thought to play that game of continuity as a PSYCHOLOGICAL self centred game which thought love as it is its main work....

So death as such when those insights happened was perceived as not being a root problem, there is more to it which is continuity is now the problem...and this bring us logically to thought and its set up , its program being the problem , thought as a leader-dictator of the brain is THE problem because it is far too limited to apprehend all what life contains , and now I would even say as I know it for me now that it was not at all meant to function on its own...

We need our other capacities back...I have lived more than deeply some of them so I know about that...as long as thinking is trying to act here, nothing will happen...thought here is already back on the tack to be a problem...

for me of course what we wrongly call sorrow which only is a signal(and a catalyst) unknown as such , is my only help when and if left alone..when I learn that I cannot be willing to leave it alone as this does not work but creates more problem....nor face it and all those analytical nonsense, there is one option left and nothing else left but sorrow itself...then sorrow will take care of itself...

k says so , me too by experience..

knowing the self is vital did he say too....this is more than right according to me..this is happening when the catalyst is left alone,somehow when me as the powerful entity not knowing that it is a program for survival only, when me is defeated.....so far it is the only way I see as a vital step, a vital door...then if this happens, something new enters into being as and when and how it wishes...

it seems to me that at some stage you are naturally and spontaneously because of a deep deep understanding of all that, naturally able to refuse to control life, precisely because you have travelled in the pain created but such nonsense.

We consider pain as an incident when it is a vital repellent thought process..when it goes beyond its limits of competency, this means that the Creator ,the Ground knows that and had no other ways...or is insane so are we !!!

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 04 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Now if the very premises of this collectively inherited tendency for self-centredness are questioned and eventually negated - in the sense of transcended through a direct perception- there is a very definite possibility of not feeling anymore that instinctive craving for la fuite en avant away from what is an absolute fact of life , namely that death is indivisible from life. So that is a self- transcending level of understanding .

What you call instinctive craving for la fuite en avant is as I see it a consequence of how thought works so of its program, which by having many times lived sorrow so having been defeated, has started to reveal itself when and as it wishes. What is important or even vital here is that such non accumulative knowledge is greatly helping to instantly see the trap of thought when happening. For the analytical process too like for the body to be alive contains death in the package, we leave the death of the body and only keep what it mentally means for the analyser, which is always analysing for the future and at first as a child expanding itself to a few hours ahead,then bit by bit at some stage expanding itself to reach the infinite...mental pain says; for god sake this is wrong beware...!!!

who listen to that ? no one...

Pain and beyond that when understood so left totally alone is a signal, a catalyst, a sort of dialogue with X, a helper,and so on,which bit by bit is suggesting ways up to see that I cannot be the leader of a life...."I" is not capable of that....something else must lead our lives....what is left for "I" so ?? many things to do in vital fields, in keeping the body in good shape, in meeting other in peace simply because I is at peace now , working together and sharing everything etc, the only relative security we will ever get....no business, no money, no competition, no value to people, no hierarchical society etc etc all those things are absolutely and definitively beyond the "I" imagination of course..

John: The only difficulty for people like us is that there has to be created a certain free inner space for letting this primordial fear of not-being to be exposed and integrated with the other levels of our consciousness, to unfold itself and tell its story. Mr K is suggesting that it will flower then wither - but the truth of the matter may be that those essential energies previously trapped in this time process (la fuite en avant) are released and get integrated in the total energy of our being. So this is an understanding of a transformational nature and it is a process very much related to a meditator-less..

Yes , thought leadership-less in other words ???

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 05 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Well, Dan, this statement that K often uttered did also put me on a loop- it sounds so hopeless for both him and for a better future of mankind. However, to his merit, he was also adding that it was a wrong question. And I can see why, because it is being asked from the perspective of time (dans une logique temporelle). Which is sending us back to the timeless logic of ...meditation. So it may be possible to act in a more direct way on this day-dreaming human consciousness. In fact, the K teachings are taking us only up to this point, but if we've learned our lesson well we might take it from there....

Hopeless it sounds yes because it is right now,is it not ?? ...thought which field of competencies is always in the future has not succeeded to imagine a forever and secured future and never said: may be this does not exist at all???....sort of mixed both psychological and material sort of security, rather steadiness where everything would be certain.....constant, a sort of frozen continuity, which is unbearable at the same time because of the need for more..

Here I stop , for me it goes nowhere, the analysing of that is a dead end, I have learn that for myself.

So yes totally agreed with what you say about une logique temporelle,sign of the dictatorship of the analytical process over the entire brain,never able to be in the present other than mechanically, so is never entirely so superficially only in this present..

meditation is not that then...well agreed so..

Acting in a more direct way, well that is a question I ask myself since I write here,voluntarily not searching for some answers..

You know one of my way to go into that which is to find ways to leave sorrow or pain or frustration or or or etc free to be as a catalyst that would make it a process in fact ...is it the only one? as a mandatory step it could be ..but as I cannot be willing it to be free to act as a catalyst, the subtlety here has to be renewed each time, as what worked once will not work next time...it is entering in a no reproductive method land ..

even solved, such symptom of error still is there in a mild way even sometimes in a nearly imperceptible way..but is there as a warning....it could well be be part of thought itself...that is my view...we could consider it as a program with a precise function so...

As a child it is fine and yet some are already totally loony ,violent, and so on,as an adult meaning here that the brain is entirely formed, this is not good enough..in itself I find that quite simple...

thought deals with practical matter and plan the future so ,having too a mission allowing the body to move into its environment...me, the environment..vital not to fall from the cliff etc

a division found too in so called psychological fields too...me and others, the universe..ending in me fighting others and the universe,that simply would be a misuse of the analytical program in the wrong fields...

etc ..must go now, sorry as this is a bit all over the place...no time for more careful writing

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 06 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: I was thinking of this too, Dan, for quite a lot of time. The 'rationale' of it would be the following : if it is true that all humans share the same global consciousness, then within this shared consciousness field, there must be a 2 way interaction: one way is quite obvious; the pressure of the collective thought on each of us- a banal example: if the national soccer or rugby team has a game tonight; chances are that many will feel spontaneously enticed to turn on the TV, etc. But few have noticed the possibility that the same transfer mechanism could work in the opposite direction: the whole nazi hysteria was triggered by a only few mad men in the first place- a very bad example to follow ...K and Bohm were implying the same effect when in The Ending of Time dialogues they were speaking of 'a dozen of us who would not be divided'. So psycho-technically speaking the thing is not impossible..

Hello John....

Global mechanism as thought would I say,same OS with minor non vital differences this does not contradict what you say,we just have different ways to put things in words.Well this have been proven to me ,us probably, many times like same thought at the same time despite the distance...it is about a connection so, interconnection.

What you say here sounds logical to me, and can be factual.

Let me say about myself, I often wonder if this sort of work as it is somehow work , within the core of sorrow, pain and all of that ,which had been constant with me since quite young like since 10 years old ish , having at the same time some energy to counterbalance this up to a point, where the balance was definitively broken , if all that was uncovered by drowsing and being defeated and all that leading to some totally unexpected deep insights and more , if all that does not feed some field where such experience can be there somehow to be seen too by someone, this would mean that k's momentum are still there ,for eventual use...and more..

I do not know, but in my logic based too on weird events ,that is a real possibility....

But I do not know is the fact..

Having said that, as what only prevails in mankind is thought and nothing else,thought is feeding thought....helping to increase the worse up to the level where the balance will be broken....

we may have to reach this momentum globally like one have to ..??? so we clearly would be living ,at last !! such crisis right now....thought has become totally meaningless and a danger despite its machines... for itself leading to suicide intention out of the usual escape of pain...

this is something that k has mentioned about escaping being a suicide...I agree by having seen that clearly too

cheers

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 06 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

max greene wrote: If there is only the present (a "past" and a "future" have never existed, and won't exist) and there is life in the present, how can death also be in the present?

I see death as just the comparison of one present to the memory of a former present.

Hi max....

What i see here is this ...

death is virtually in the present due to thought activity forecasting the potential future , its filed of action....by doing so, this is for me happening quite unconsciously for the superficial thought, when forecasting thought meets death in this future, and this as I have seen it very deeply, is contradicting one of thought base which is continuity ..

death as a fact of the future is denying thought to play games with continuity...

thought get "angry" with that..not superficially knowing it does

usually it is not perceived...this was perceived in one of my passive drowning into deep heavy mental pain, that was so revealed twice insightfully, if i may use k terminology...

when fear of death is there so, this is not a root problem, behind there is the matter of the craving for continuity of thought...

is there more behind? well each one have to go or not into that question is not it ? For myself behind for sure there is the process itself which craves for continuity...now we are dealing with the program behind thought itself etc etc .....

then will this program reveal itself, in what I live , yes it does by itself..

cheers

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 08 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: I can see your point, Dan. But there are 2 possible ways to look at this suffering- with or without the back-up of the past knowledge of it- as the new text above rightfully points it out. One is just giving it 'reality' by verbally recognising and implicitly accepting it as an actual fact, while the second is in a direct contact with the fact, so there is a certain freedom in dealing with its causes.

Hello John, yes this is something I have mentioned from time to time, let me be more define..

one day out of the blue whatever the reasons are you leave suffering alone then something totally unexpected takes place...suffering is immediately gone, there is some very very good energy around, some revealing of the source of one or more problems and a much better vital energy around for you as well as side effects some days if not weeks or month after like some unexpected revelations about one self or of the thought functioning etc etc

Next time suffering is there, of course you know all what took place before...the first situation will never be again..it is gone.

you know as you clearly see what happens that it must be left untouched , but what happened the previous time cannot be reproduced, you know that or you learn it by trying and not succeeding..

Of course there is something left from previous experience, if there was not ,for me it means that I should again wait years before such momentum eventually takes place again , or never, as for many people such momentum never take place...

I know what has to be done, but each time I have to discover how to do it, the how being not good in k's world of course...however there is a gradual learning through personal experience, so much deeper than what thought does of course, and many totally unexpected events take place ...

each learning gives birth to a new situation,some of the past learning can be used,like suffering must be left alone and some cannot be used..like how I did it last time....well I am going to do that again...but it does not work ,it cannot work....if consciously I am not aware that I am trying to reproduce the same trick, unconsciously this is what I am surely doing so perverting the situation where nothing will take place, as the unconscious is involved in this..it must be involved , this is why suffering is for out of more used for it..it is involving the unconscious too

at this level, a method does not work, but to throw away everything is not right for me either...

as i never discovered nor followed what k said about that, I wrote this before then I am going, out of the usual curiosity to read what he said in your last quote..

thanks..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 09 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Well, Dan, that's why we are all here, to learn. For me the 'K experience is definitely of a transcendental nature, even if at this point in time it has no appeal for practically anybody..........

hello John...

Yes , no doubt for me...the time we live seems special yet it is not, because modern man had lived since the end of WW2 ( yet for me it is still on ,not the subject here) as if all his future could be secured for good ( how can it be where there is competition is ? this is nonsense) ,full of potential future events to cherish, absolute happiness and contentment would be joining too , never-ending entertainment etc etc ,and secretly au usual had been avoiding death, the real one to come as well as death as a psychological subject having a remarkable effect on our mental capacities ,forcing the brain working in the known to stop its activities where it shall never go...

so we are living the fall of a way of no life...thought only based..

as a help we have what we wrongly call suffering which is for me the only "trick" able to act here as a catalyst, in order to start another process able to stay with the unknown, like a sort of ignition ; for me it is the process to be used here in order to freeze somehow , more less , the never-ending activity of thought ..

then anyone sees for him-herself... K talks from beyond thought...indeed !

So now let me read as I did not get a chance to do so yet ...

;-)

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 09 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

to look without thought does not mean a blank observation ; there is only observation, without the mechanical process of recognition and comparison, justification and condemnation; this 'seeing' does not fatigue the brain for all mechanical processes of time have stopped. Through complete rest the brain is made fresh, to respond without reaction, to live without deterioration, to die without the torture of problems. To look without thought is to see without the interference of time , knowledge and conflict. To see without the mechanism of thought is a total seeing, without particularization and division, which does not mean that there is not dissimilarity. Seeing without thought does not put the brain to sleep; on the contrary, it is fully awake, attentive, without friction and pain. This attention without the borders of time is the flowering of meditation.

Hello John,as you know...I had lived that, that was long ago,deeply twice....I mention in order to say if someone else but you read :I do not go into that intellectually ,analytically, logically but by looking at what is left of it,as there is something left, not about the content ,about the container ...

What I sense is clearly that another process of some sort turns itself on all of a sudden, thought sees it coming up then stay far away from it as a very remote spectator, but it is there...something it seems not to be there, because parts of a full day were clearly not memorised , hours are missing........

total seeing yes , k has this remarkable way to describe what cannot be described ..

no division , no particularization , yes absolutely no hierarchy would I add to that

fully awake ,yes indeed....

no reaction ,again true , no fatigue either..no problems, no fear etc etc..

This is not even surprising, nor is there any regret when it is gone...this is out of many more reasons why I know about another process not being thought..because thought is always sad ,disappointed,depressed when something big ,huge and so on ends...when this involuntary contact with this weird energy is nothing big ,huge when it is happening etc, it is just entirely of a different nature where division is not , problems are not,fear is not,and I would ad that in such moment the question of the meaning is not asked, because this is asked by a brain who is suffering,as another escape from it, than what we known by living, or rather surviving with thought only..

this is not my actuality for 40 years...I am just in the process of curing my own brain mind from years of wrongness so of wounds ....:-)

this need the revealing of what is still unconscious and so on....

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 11 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: The 'seriousness' of ( self-centred?) thought is fragmentary and immature but there must be a Seriousness which is not the product of desire. This Seriousness has the quality of a light that has no shadow; this seriousness is infinitely pliable and therefore joyous. It was there and every tree and (the perception of?) every blade of grass and flower became intensely alive and splendid; their colour intense and the sky immeasurable. The earth, moist and leaf-strewn, was life.

Desire would be one of "my" new uninvited topic...since I have deeply seen out of the blue that without desires ,thought would not be functioning ....desire is a complex incentive, to make our thinking process which by many aspects is just a calculator, calculating....the process needs goals to function...so desire provide them....

I say that it is complex because the word desire again says too little...there are a lot of others sub incentives behind like self reward,self pride,self satisfaction and so on....what we call fear is part of it too, frustration not to reach too etc ad libitum, then all this is creating discontentment ,sorrow and suffering...

not bad at all..

when one sees that one may say that the Origin is not that great so are we...

then I leave that here for now....yet I could go more into...later on..not a day to write a lot..

I Will come back to it , by finding more accurate sayings by k about desire too, not too simple ones as I am not interested in that any more, but deeper ones..and see his experience on that...

thanks

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 12 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: just today in the Jardin du Luxembourg I had this quite profound insight on the nature of our 'psychological' memory: a subliminally sticky memory of which we are no more aware simply because it has become part of our 'known' background- and of course, it acts as an independent 'thinker' or 'observer'; It is very likely that this 'imprinting' is taken place very early in our life and once set in place it is becoming our active interface with the world. Can the brain relate to its surrounding reality without it ? It can...but it doesn't even try it because of its inbuilt blinding need for safety .

Hello John, yes I get that....analysing is constant, based on a set up program analysing a stored memory of various goals,desires, knowledges etc etc

as such this is normal and logical as such for a program .Nothing extraordinary !

Then your question is : Can the brain relate to its surrounding reality without it ? you say it can, I say too having lived it too.

For my it appears to be involuntary, yet all this is so fast, instant and out of the control of thought which sees it happening, that in fact the right answer here is that i don't know if it is involuntary...that was too why I am here writing away , as I came with such questioning of a right doing wherever it must happen...of course with sorrow is clear for me ,but there is more to that I guess..

then you add: but it doesn't even try it because of its inbuilt blinding need for safety

I still question the safety thingy thing....it could be more simple like when the analyser meets the unknown, in that field as it has no capacity at all, it simply cannot go into it , all what it analyses is previously recorded ,its desired future as well ! .....then it should leave that alone so which it does not, possibly in the absence of our missing capacities like the one to live the unknown ,then as k mentioned it clearly , it is attempting to turn what it does not know into something known of its own making..take death for example...that is a perfect example..

John: So once the basic imprinting is done, the 'me versus world' interface is getting constantly updated while remaining the basic reference for each and every conscious response.

indeed....what will shake this world is pain..is not it ?

so the outer pain and disaster,nonsense and machines etc is clearly our personal one multiplied by X billion..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 13 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

indeed....what will shake this world is pain..is not it ?

May be so, Dan, but as K was often saying, man has suffered since immemorial times and it just got accustomed with it- 'l'angoisse existentielle' has become part of the globally accepted human condition.

Well John, even pain will not shake this species right NOW, or after 2 world wars, earth would be crowded by million of awakened people !! it is just not a subject at all, never had been apart with Mr Buddha and k in between so 2500 years there is an empty nothing especially in Europe and generally what is called the occidental world busy with science, so where the intellect only prevails, yet the middle ages contrary to what people "think they think" was for me interesting, how many people walking by Notre Dame in Paris, know that they are looking at one of numerous middle ages construction..?? ...thinking in terms of global seems to lead nowhere when it is about my own brain,each item must undergo its own radical awakening, that would not be the first step for one to go global , the first step being , if this means anything at all, with oneself , as an unhappy creature, suffering yet negating it.....

Since living analytically leads to a nonsensical life, ...that probably ""why"" we are alive is even gone in my view, to machines all over the place and pain, yet in this nonsense some, many will find a wooden branch to help them to stay physically alive like money, power,possession,beliefs, etc.....we keep feeding our own meaning in it....there is no need to describe what sense ,meaning is given...not to mention some elected by the grace of god..honestly earth is a gigantic mental asylum...with not one single movement of change in sight...

perfect conditions for suicide or a massive awakening....suicide ( like war) being like I see it and described by k too a movement of escape .....

but all this is guesses...facts are less bright...yet most of human being never had so many toys to play with and so much poisoned food either..

whatever happens, whatever I possess, I is unhappy..pretending that all is fine...

even thought the entire planet got accustomed to it as you say, is not my own problem yet of course the analytical system thinks that it is,shaping the entire universe to fit my desires is its main and only work ....if people act as if they enjoy a nonsensical life but really sad in fact, well good luck with it so..

One of my daughter she is now 19, she is really light years away from such subjects , entirely adapted to that superficial world of entertainment was inclined to mentally suffer much somehow since she is 2, so trying to get at all of us,to any one in her way .. kind of "I suffer so will you " ...

slowly we passively went into one of my pet subject as you say (in a sort of shamanistic way, so hard to say what happens), and after a good while she got something vital about it but I had to force her to go into, really forced her somehow into it, like there is nothing to do at all when I feel some mental pain....yesterday as she does from time to time she told me that in the morning she was really awful again and that as now she got by herself through experiment that this must be left alone, expecting nothing out of it, all of a sudden it was gone without any explanation one more time...then she was "good"....

this I say is so simple, does not need any intellectual capacities, and does not interest anyone at all, apart from exceptions...

why ? honestly I have enough with myself...:-))

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 13 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: So, it may not be working that way at all. Basically it should be a simple act of a mature mind...except that this collective mentality of getting more and more, better and better in terms of time is putting practically on a loop. From where a certain lassitude which goes along with...self-indulgence, resulting in the present cultural standardisation at the lowest psychological common denominators- greed, violence, self-interest etc.

John, why would a mature mind come out of the blue by doing nothing or by thinking, or by having a proper education as who is going to educate and to try to convey what..out of which bases ?

So far the outer is totally hopeless , the mass ,the good people want this life ,with all of what there is in it....fine...if there was no war crime all over the place ,war lead by the occidental thieves, I would not care one second at all...but there is, we are criminals, anyone accepting or praising competition and hierarchies is this world ..

when there was some revealing of the analytical program I have clearly seen for myself that competition does not exist, what is taking place is elimination, the analytical process is eliminating people like it eliminates ideas, theories, guesses etc

this came without searching or even thinking about this because I live suffering when it is there..

a guide we have....suffering is a process ,an ignored one..Buddha knew this in his own experiment.... today in so called Buddhism, dukkha is not a subject...

greed ,violence, self interest have not changed since long time....there were people in some different time who were different, we have inherited their brain, but some of it does not function any more...

the missing capacities, the keys to life,when we only try to survive in total blindness..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 15 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John, I made a compilation of what you put in bold letters....and see if there is something about all that.

This self-knowing is only in the active present; it has no continuity as ( an accumulation of self-?) knowledge ...

Dan: well I find that some of it leaves something, but k says about continuity as knowledge which is a different matter, yet when for example I have seen insightfully, of course without searching that there is no competition as such but elimination like thought eliminate a concept, then I know that for good..

But this was not experienceable, knowable; the totality of consciousness must be free of the known and be empty without any form of effort. It was there, inside and outside; one was walking in it and with it.

Dan: it all depends what k means here by consciousness ,what I always mean by that now is that it is a mixture of the analytical program and all memories of all kind, memories of the future included ....free of the known makes sense,thought does not lead is the meaning here for me..so something else is active and leading the brain mind instead of thought

The 'meditator' is ( the active interface of?) thought, but in meditation ( the self-identified?) thought must totally cease. This is the foundation for ( the authentic?) meditation.

Dan: same her, another process is active and something esle but thinking enters into being..

this brain being still and turning upon itself, it was no longer 'experiencing' outwardly or inwardly

There was that strange 'energy', call it by any name ( such as...kundalini?) , deeply active, without object and purpose; it was ( the energy of?) Creation, not the thing of human brain, of self expression and decay

Dan: I had lived that as well as without this kthing...the kundalini itself is a process leading to a connection with a strange energy and more ,yes indeed..here I do not think that he is mentioning the kthing , as this energy can be there without the kthing is what I knew some long time ago...

It was a 'meditation in emptiness', an (inner) Void that had no borders

dan: yes it speaks but not in a straight manner..

Meditation is the emptying the mind of all thought, for (the self-centred?) thought and feeling dissipate energy; they are repetitive, producing mechanical activities ( a necessary part of existence though...), but they cannot possibly enter into the ( inner?) immensity of life

Dan: well that is good as if so we would have found ways to destroy the universe itself by now

Meditation is the emptying of the mind of the known.

Dan: then I know what it is

A life based on ( self-centred?) thought becomes (repetitive and predictibly ?) mechanical; however smoothly it may run, in that life there is no (spiritual?) renewal.

Meditation is the understanding of the facts

There is only fact : freedom from the known. Meditation was the 'explosion' of the fact.

Dan: I know that explosion....that is very well described....the kthing ws that too, the other contact as well ,an explosion

It is wholly ( a first degree encounter with?) the Unknown ;

Our (inner) life is so shallow and empty, petty thoughts and activities, ( intricately ? ) woven in conflict and misery, always journeying from the known to the known,

Dan: to be mad nuts we shall be so :-))

thought is the program for the known, our asleep capacities have talent with anything but that....

unfortunately there is no known switch to that which works, well you know the one I know a bot ,if not more bout, but not as a method as this has no continuity as such and as it is..so it has to be differently new each time...

again thanks...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 16 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: K is taking the psychological key words at their face value: our common, everyday consciousness is to a great extent coloured by our personal experience and culture and it is more of a self-consciousness than an objective, non-personal one . The same field of consciousness - if emptied of its ( personalised) content is an objective, open ended consciousness - see also 'mind'- perhaps our total consciousness. So, independently of what the expert linguists or philosophers would ever have to say, this is to be clarified only individually by having an insight into it.

Hello John, agreed it is self coloured consciousness, well for me such word is more a problem than helping in fact...but this is me ...such word hides a complex and subtle imbrication of many programs and adds on if I may use such word here..

when the weird energy is present and the analyser is not in the way incapable to stand this energy and so remains where it has too only, there was no emptying of the content of my personal known whatever this know is does not matter, it was not just interfering..

now k is k and due to its apparently quite constant mind in touch with this weird energy , well who knows what was really happening in his brain mind...?

I agree to leave the so called experts too, having some insight is the way....I do not know for you but for me I cannot be influencing the subject of any insights at all, they just happen whenever , I have no control at all over that...this comes from my time in pain, searching is something which I do not want to go into any more as the symptom of wrongness is kind of immediately back at me...just mentioning a personal way it is..not saying anything good or wrong about that.....just my way so far for now..who knows what will come next ? again not me as I have no clues..

John Raica wrote: Now, regarding these 'insightfully selected' K quotes from his personal Notebook, I am treating them as a very personal learning experience, there is a certain inner 'resonance' in my own being with their true vibration. A single insightful phrase can eventually convey, trigger- or awaken- a totally 'new' ( and objective) look at our whole human condition , especially since the expression of that insight is taken out of the conventional associations mechanically assigned by our own thinking or by the collective mentality

Yes this is what I understand of your present ways..and as it was there I decided to go along with what struck you and see if there was something talking for me..

i agree wit this : especially since the expression of that insight is taken out of the conventional associations mechanically assigned by our own thinking or by the collective mentality...

the other(s) process(es) at work so ?

cheers

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 19 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: Life is not to be approached through the past, nor through the mirage of the future. Its discovery can only be made in the immediate present - by the individual for himself and not for others - by the individual who has become the eternal "I". That eternal "I" is created by the perfection of the 'self' - an (integrated all-oneness ?) in which all things are contained, even human imperfections. Man, not yet having achieved that condition of "life in the present", lives in the past which he regrets, or in the future of his hopes, but never in the present which he ignores. This is the case with all men ( and/or women ?) .

Well, k is, for me, describing the thinking process, the analytical process, some of its program and its field of "expansion" which is the future; it clearly has no capacities at all about the present,as first it records something then watch it; so what it is watching is already past, and try to define the future, no its future only, thought cannot be global,all this creates the illusion of a movement , so all those unnecessary words like expansion, a myth for me, and so on..

Watching now at my own time in this present, the problem I see with k ways of remarkably describing all that, nevertheless it may give the impression that thought can do something about all that at all time, like watching, and all of it, when for me it cannot do anything but prevent any watching ,any life to be..

Here I am not mistaking insights, flashes for the weird energy; insights and all those effects of a brain now at work to solve all problems, already using more than thought to do so, meaning that more capacities are at work, a brain on its way to understand,discover and so on, but I talk about this weird presence which literally smashed everything which is of thought, putting all that where it has to , like in the crop field, in the kitchen , making furnitures etc organising the survival globally speaking ...

this brings nothing, but it is OK at it was not meant to....I still do not get how all this finds its way,yet I see some of it, I just remember this sensation of being able to not resist whatever the cost of this is...you know this permanent feeling that whatever is done, the same old sticky frustration up to pain is always there, and that there never is some mental "orgasm" taking place..which become unbearable at some stage, making life a heavy burden and nothing more

that seemed to be a turning point to find ways to live that like anything else....

thought has the more than vital play at the beginning to renounce itself to its activities when it is about the expansion of itself through desires and goals..

if this is REALLY a fact, then something may happen by itself...or not.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 27 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: I can only know myself as I am by observing my (everyday) living, watching myself (and the outer world?) in the (2-way?) mirror of my relationship with another. To watch myself in that mirror is not to be merely 'introspective', or 'objective', but to be constantly alert, watchful of what is taking place in the mind, in myself. To understand a thing as it is, any (prejudiced?) evaluation, must go - and this is only the beginning of it ( a very shallow beginning) but one must go through that, one must understand the whole process of the mind, not merely intellectually, but by watching oneself in this 'mirror of relationship', to actually experience what is taking place in the mind - examine it, be aware of the whole content of it, without denying suppressing, or putting it away.

Well John, my view about that is that it seems to invite logic, analyses, introspection, in order to "do" so..Well to be honest I don't get k's point at all... I mean the way it is expressed here does not speak to me...

I have to bring that back one more time but the drowning into suffering, suffering as a natural process and not as a curse of course, the proper drowning meaning that suffering wins and I am defeated so expecting nothing , then there is not me on one hand and suffering on the other hand, this seems, more than seems ,this brings some other capacities to rune themselves on and this out of many side effects has brought an intensive revealing of the software of thought itself, I never was searching for that ...it just happens..

Then now i know about why are there desires for example and much more...why arrogance, fear, killing, suicide idea and much more...it is something on the move, well again I have no control over it....

what if there is a guide for us behind all that....? then beyond suffering, when you learn to catch it from scratch or quite so, you know you are wrong again and again have to find one way to leave it alone...up to "you know that you have to find a way to leave it alone" thought so analysis is still concerned and it gets the message that it must cease its interfering, but to leave it alone for a fact is each time another piece of cake, another discovery because it seems that a method here does not work, simply because the only point is that me absolutely must shut up... it is juts my experience so far...nothing more but nothing less, I mean this is not a guess...

This is in k words not necessarily here, but it is, it seems very difficult to put such momentum in words, even for oneself..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 28 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: So, the pre-requisite ( 'pre-K' requirement ?) in all this would be an insight into the perceptive validity of our existing self-locked (survivalist ?) perceptive and relational mode. Otherwise...we're just playing mind games with ourselves and...with others

Well John ,yes and up to a point I see myself doing that,as long as this weird energy is not there, there is still a sort of mind game yes, some could be necessary to broom the room and "god" knows what else....

since I wrote the last post I had this better definition of suffering, the absence of the weird energy is a suffering,the dictatorship of thought IS suffering leading to various levels and forms of it....now this is quite out of the way, well for now :-)

since I got such totally incidental "revelations" of the software functioning of thought, here now there seem to have different possibilities ....

self knowledge is vital says k, well indeed it is then...

John Raica wrote: I have noticed too, Dan, that there might be a potential educational flaw into this 'learning by observing oneself in the mirror of relationship'; For one thing it certainly worked for K...but again, his mind was cleansed of the 'observer-observing- 'the observed' duality.

I may be wrong, so a question ,k could have some ability to have both "worlds" somehow at the same time ,sometimes, and from time to time ,the weird energy was totally putting thought where it belongs to so let's say in the kitchen getting the lunch ready, or ..nothing for once!..it is my impression...but with some ???? of course. ....(John:So, technically speaking you can't honestly do both at the same time: to be inwardly in a safe-mode and also have a total perceptive contact with a reality)

John Raica wrote: Now, for most of us here, this perceptive duality is a given- in the sense of a fail-safe perceptive mode which has worked for so many generations...and producing the 'mixed bag' reality of the present world. So, in practical terms, we are meeting daily a lot of potentially destabilising facts in the world 'out there'- to quote the French philosopher JP Sartre: 'L'enfer c'est les autres'...

Again I question like is it really about safety, It could be only about the known, field of thought ,incapable to go anywhere else then... I agree that it looks like to be about safety..this came to me within some revealing of the thought software,as a program.. The present world being as mad as centuries ago , we are just living it and not reading it....still hoping, hope being another escape of thought ....still playing games in fact.

John Raica wrote: So, Mr K's injunction to directly see ourselves in 2-way the mirror of relationship sounds pretty unrealistic...in the 'real' world. It may be working (???) in a self-selected (BP kind of) community and alternative school, but the main impediment is the wide spread inner attitude of a self-locked ( 'fail-safe') perceptive ego/observer/thinker/experiencer.

May be there is something very true and vital behind : directly see ourselves in 2-way the mirror of relationship

if so it has not crossed my own road yet...as such, as said.

Thought is turning round in circles in its self locked cage then....this is suffering...again because of the absence of the weird energy as well as the inability to solve problems..mainly what thought does is running away, well attempting to run away from what it does not know to stay in the known...

this is machines and mass murders....such life is a joke, talking for myself of course....which is only more bitterness and mind games from thought ,so such sentence is not just useless in fact but only strengthened it ...the perception of that is the destruction of it....ad libitum...

cheers

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 29 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: if the 'self-protecting' interface is active we can see only the practical utility of people, nature, etc. It is a very very old survival based conditioning and our modern world still 'thrives' economically on it (with a few downfalls of course )

Hello John,

well , for me, it is not a conditioning as such, yet yes some conditioned learning of all kind whether false or right had been added to the main features ,years after years centuries after centuries; but it seems to me to just be about the thought program normal working order ,working in its field of competencies , If I may say so ,that is how I see all that..it fields of competencies include to eliminate, give value and hierarchies etc etc but not to people, to concepts and techniques ONLY....

in the absence of an other capacities, I mean lost capacities that we necessarily had turned on, again for me, turned on in some unknown past, as otherwise we would not bee here, in such absence we treat others as we valued calculation and concepts...we lead a life of a calculator only...this life is pain, naturally meant to be painful in order to prevent man to go that way..but we did ....pain is the subject....we try to skip it all life......and life says next..

so simple.

John Raica wrote: the image we get of the "others" is that of a very distorting mirror. So...we 'learn' something like 'It's cold out there', while 'in-here it's warm and safe'. Now, as you are mentioning quite often, this fail-safe mode is indeed synonymous to sorrow, but the average human brain seems to give a much higher priority to its 'psychological safety ' feature, as for the rest...c'est la vie..

again, is it about safety or about the known , the unknown ?? known = safe ? unknown = unsafe, or is it that thought is entirely useless about what is unknown ??

I think that I am dealing with safety , indeed it looks that way yes, but this is just some very superficial analytical analyses, yet vital for sure too, deep down for me it is about the known and the unknown and one desire is enough to do so...but even the desire for comfort and safety could be superficial and not a root problem, again the root problem could well be the inability of thought in so many fields of what life is....

any pain of such syndrome is an immediate warning = fault !!!

And it could be where we are wrong but not sensing that the warning is yes a symptom but a catalyst to leave absolutely free like I do with the wind or the sun..even if I protect myself from the sun or the wind, the sun is still there so is the wind...

So here now I am not concerned right now I mean with how others deal with that...I am concerned with my own way to deal or "mis-deal" with all that first. Not to forget the experiences of the weird energy and more...because this gives a sense to be around something terribly RIGHT..often, but not always with kids, for me security has come after something I regarded as "good",of course I am not mentioning any kind of business,success, or such b.....t here .

when security comes after, it is not anymore about security then...it is about whatever but that..

thanks.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 29 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

Dan McDermott wrote: As has been said,'desire' seems to be at the root of all our problems. Whether it be for material comforts or 'spiritual' accomplishment, it ultimately leads us to conflict. It has to be seen again and again to discover its ubiquitousness. It, desire, seems to be 'regulated' in our fellow creatures but with us it's 'anything goes'. 'More' is better, "greed is good" etc. Desire is even there when we attempt to 'see' ourselves, with the motive of 'gain' lurking in the shadows. Letting 'what is' "flower" seems to be what is called for and that calls for a certain 'freedom' that understands that there is no other 'way'.

Hello the other Dan, unless I myself am the other Dan :-))

I agree that desire is a serious problem...What I have seen revealed for me about the thought program ,revealed is really the right word here, is that desire is vital, without desires thought would not function, thought as a program , a machine needs an incentive self induced to analyse, and desires are providing such incentives, like self reward does, self satisfaction does, self pride etc etc etc ..

desires contains a dark side named frustrations, greed, fear, hatred, and so many more dark aspects.....that was revealed again, not thought..I never searched to understand thought..going through the suffering door have done that is what I understand....

From very young surrounded by globally intelligent adults so in touch with what they are which is probably never the case on earth since ages , that would be a subject for the young to eventually go into...but

Anyway this dark side loaded in desires is for me in us with a motive as a function, it has a function..we do not suffer because the Universe, the Ground, the Origin, or whatever name suits her, is nuts.

exactly like physical pain it guides, don't do this.....

so even the letting "what is flower" can, as you know, be just another trick made up by thought...this is why what we call pain and that we immediately are trying to reject is so strong, as to by pass the powerful inertia of thought such strong incentive more powerful than thought is necessary..by itself it is very possible that thought cannot by pass itself at all...this is my actual view so far..

etc

cheers

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 30 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: the inherited instincts for seeking/finding/and optimising the safety of our daily existence has led to a residual accumulation of "personal and collective" experience and psycho-knowledge.

Hi John, yes there is accumulation in one's lifetime , but is it now integrated to the core of all our concerned cells or whatever part of the body is concerned, well this i do not know.....so is the accumulation which is not from "instinct" ( with my words instinct is the programmed analytical process) passed on to the next generation ?? I do not know...I would be tempted to say no....but that is just a wild guess..

yet as i have seen in a strong vision some 5 years ago that the machine namely the analytical process starts to be rotten, at this level of the hardware and even software then , something "bad" is happening clearly..if behind the vision there is truth in it of course...when watching the state of this planet, well it could be so...

we may be living the end of thought domination in fact, one way or the other....well, may be this is just nonsense ??

John Raica wrote: However, the karmic downfall of this attitude is that we do not see anything directly, we just automatically process every new perception in terms of our personal or group safety, commercial value, etc . To use a scientific term once used by David Bohm, this is creating a standing ( cultural) wave, an intrinsically limited mentality shared by practically everyone. It all comes with the verbalising process of thought: once it starts you are automatically drawn into the field of the known.

If so, as it seems to be so yes, what is wrong with that (just an open question)? To say that it is wrong by watching ones life and all what thought is producing on earth from machines to mass killing and tortures etc etc , this is already beyond the thought process is not it ? something says: this is totally wrong !!! and right away comes the thought: I must change this, the world according to my feelings..thought immediately has discarded itself from any responsibility into the mess....it is sliding on this false duality, me and the world....until death then...

John Raica wrote: Which, as K and yourself very wisely pointed out...also involves sorrow. And most of us have become insensitive or even 'immune' to it. A very safe but... dull and boring existence- the "psychological" dead-end of our culture.

Yes, it looks that way, a dead end, and I would be tempted to add: AT LAST !

here we have a two ways option for me....mental and-or physical suicide as usual but worse (war etc etc) or ????

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 30 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

I am translating Richard's post in English.

richard villlar wrote:

paul daniel wrote #96:

the drowning into suffering, suffering as a natural process and not as a curse of course

Richard: Indeed, this is a natural process, I would even say that it is intelligence and the opposite of malediction "! What can allow,bring, human "awakening" in daily life? What is just regularly and constantly under our nose and which constitute THE main opportunity to do so , yes am talking about opportunity ?

I am talking about conflicts, discontentment, awkwardness, shame, fear, anxiety, stress, jealousy, anger and so on, there are present daily ( processes which I find of a great beauty in themselves)

under our very nose, everyday...we just have to stop and to observe all that, we must just stop to give us some illusory space between all this ,suffering etc, and the absence of it.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 31 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: This memory has only a partial significance, to respond mechanically;this response is choice. There is no freedom in choices. You choose according to the cultural background you have been brought up in, according to your social, economic, religious conditioning Choice invariably strengthens this conditioning; there is no escape from this conditioning, it only breeds more suffering.

Right. thought is a self enclose program,limited to itself,whatever this itself is. It is suffering. I now see that as such for me too. Thought is suffering, in that word can be put anything.

Is it incidental? Is it a necessity? if it is incidental, well good luck to anyone with it. If so that would be bad luck for us, as the only other option I see so far would have been the absence of suffering.... god dammed !!

If there is an unknown necessity behind it, well what sort of necessity could that be ? I leave that for now.

John Raica wrote: choice is always breeding misery. Watch it and you will see it lurking, demanding, expecting, and before you know it, you are caught in its net of inescapable duties, responsibilities and despairs. Watch it and you will be aware of the fact. Be aware of this fact; it is there. If you will let it alone, not interfering with it with your calculated and cunning judgements, it will flower and show all its intricacies, its subtle ways, its seeming importance and ethics, its hidden motives and fancies.

What is the program of thought? It is a program, we all have it plus superficial differences as named by thought itself;thought by set up insists to make differences, to catalogue, to give value, to create hierarchies, up to war and mass killing,tortures and destructions,suicide and eradication etc ..all this is desires based....no desire = no thought functioning...that is the by default program we all have from scratch ..a child already suffers in his-her own ways...yet normally there is still more + than - to his-her counter counting of reached desires....the world is waiting for me to be conquer ....ah ah ah...says the clown !!

let it alone says k, I agree experiences wise, but is it as simple as those few words for thought?

I think this is the core, one core , one huge step out of ???? ...thought is invading the outer somehow, by doing so what are its deep motives to do so ?

let it alone....

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sat, 31 Oct 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: But you must be choicelessly aware of it Then you will see that choice, having flowered, dies and there is freedom, not you are free, since you are the maker of choices! . there is nothing to choose. Out of this choiceless state there flowers a all-oneness which is always flowering and it is always new. All choice is in the field of the known; action in this field always breeds sorrow. There is the ending of sorrow in 'aloneness' (all-oneness?) .

Well John, that would be one of those quotes is not it ...

there is choice in survival, this tool not great we may try that one...or even in the forest like shall I turn right,left or go back ?? ad libitum..no end to that going round in circles.

Can I choose the climate, the sun, my earth, my society, my nose, no death, happiness, etc ? try it then..this is what only we basically do...from choosing left or right turn in the forest I apply the same principle for all what I meet...meaning that each time at all levels I am eliminating....by the way for me this is where what we call competition and which does not exist at all as such takes its root, in this choice which always eliminate something....by doing so we shrink life to machines,using logic and all the incentives which as present to make thought function....

desire is then the main happening in such life...

desire can work on its own by default, as if not no child would even have the craving to survive...

At some stage all what is there is some sort of heavy syndrome that life "pisses me off", meaning that my winning balance of choices starts to be more heavy on the - side; it is so if I do not have what I want and even though when I get it, it is never as my dream so I decide without knowing why and how, that I must keep on searching the absolute happiness and so on, on the road to dementia now ..then one day death says: come here... and ..next please !!! poor thinking process, what a ...then money becomes a new goal as it gives me the capacity to do all what I want to do..the inevitable winners caught in such final hope are leading the world....and so what ??

As Richard says, there are plenty opportunities with what is "wrong" so does not work or-and is painful to find out somehow...but as long as I am just running away, escaping, there is not one chance to let all that be..

I don't understand that: There is the ending of sorrow in 'aloneness' ...

could you share your perception of it ..?

thanks

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 01 Nov 2015
Topic: What are actually the K-Teachings ?

John Raica wrote: So, unless a new perceptive instrument is not 'awakened' the casual reader can either 'trust K'- and become a student of his works or... a follower, or can reject the whole thing as non-sense.

Well, when I bring into this what I know, so of course my own experiences in those fields, and if I add some chronological timing to what took place, whether before the k-thing so 40 years ago or recently some 6 years ago, suffering, and living it properly was there before anything happened,yet there was present a more than deep interest in all that as many...we can find correlations with suffering,sorrow of course in Mr B or Mr k with no doubt..

Now it is more obvious about why my apparent amplified focusing on sorrow, but there was and is a clear reason behind...

So yes , it is then about another perceptive instrument, for me it is not new, it is there but is out of order...but this is not vital whether new or not knew but turned off.

John Raica wrote: . In a nutshell, as long as our 'unconscious' priority is to play safe any attempt to transcend our 'given' psy-condition is only putting us on a loop. And if and when we realise that this 'psychological safety' is in fact a gilded cage, some changes ( un re-parametrage ?) will have to be operated

again it looks like playing safe, perhaps it is so as well, yet I see more to it behind that because of the lack of other capacities or instrument as you put it, I see the inability to analyse what is not known, of course!!!, meaning that anything in order to be analysed and used by thought has to be superficially processed so recorded first,then thought looks at its own recording..

in the absence of recording,thought cannot provide any answer...

So for now I stick to what I see so far( it may change ?) , there may be no playing safe as such, yet it obviously looks like that so say thought, instead there is thought competent only to analyse its own recording so any past ,of a millisecond past included , and when meeting what is unknown to itself it generates this shaking feeling call playing safe, when it is about thought being incapable to deal with such problems yet trying to, in the absence of our other capacities and there is too the fact that thought does not know that when meeting the unknown for itself it absolutely must not try to do something ...........etc

when meeting sorrow is the same process, thought has no clue about it but is most stupidly trying to do something..

agreed for the gilded cage yes and the need for radical changes..

John Raica wrote: And then only ...you realise that you are actually 'alone'- since nobody around you seems to care or realise the timeless urgency of this 'meta-physical' challenge

OK now I get it..thanks for the input about all that..

cheers..