Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Daniel Paul.'s Forum Activity | 228 posts in 3 forums


Forum: General Discussion Thu, 25 Jun 2015
Topic: The Doctrine of the 'Moon'

Patricia Hemingway wrote: And - in genuine inquiry - K is not the authority. As he very well understood - there is no authority.

Hello Patricia, just passing by the neighbourhood to say a quick hello cup of tea and sandwiches..

would you agree to say that k was in fact "simply" and as factually as possible telling his life's story in the very depth of it and not some intellectual guesses or whatever else, false...having been in touch for himself with something so unusual and in goodness in his life that he had to speak of it all his life, probably seeing that in that direction lies all non human answers to our petty insane problems ??

no need for an answer, it is more to say hello ...

Nice visiting you..

Bye now ..

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 08 Aug 2015
Topic: What are dulling factors?

dhirendra singh wrote:

randall merryman wrote:

Why, after all these centuries, can we not find a way to see/hear without the distortion/bias/interference of our conditioning? Are we too stupid?

Well mainly because, we are going to die...so why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

Hello dhirendra, long time no see....good to meet you ..

If "it" happens by chance then we all should play the lotto too, in case..

I don't see how we could have a direct influence on a presence of a mythic "it", as for me "it" is not a subject in our reach at all as an analyser, if there is a "it" at all.

to seek for "it" may in fact indicate that my life is a mess and empty so sort of painfully dull and boring by all means as it is....

When this feeling is there, feeling being a fact then, as the analyser stupidly thinks that me is one thing and the mess of my life is another one...it is caught until death into this trap, which is dark, painful ,meaningless etc etc etc....end of the sad story...nevertheless not knowing that deeply then I put my runners on and try hard to analytically find out something better, like....world domination !!!wow !!!! that is a great goal is no it..those nuts are practically ready now to commit something ..perhaps irreparable....possibly..yet such immediate possible danger does not produce any change at all in our global conduct...

but no word even closer to truth describing, if there is such truth of course, does not sufficiently really help I think, at some stage much more like a real X doing needs to take place...

well good luck then :-))

cheers..

how are you keeping those days..??

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 08 Aug 2015
Topic: What are dulling factors?

randall merryman wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

If "it" happens by chance then we all should play the lotto too, in case..

It seems most invest, more or less, in the spiritual lotto, so to speak......gotta at least buy a ticket, eh? ;)

Of course why not?

In that case, there seem to be the vital need to try that lotto really hard and widely then too see any validity in any quest but for that a signal of wrongness for me is vitally needed. For me sorrow ,pain, suffering,discontentment etc are proving again and again to be real such "landmark"s which say: this is wrong..then I can try again and again different options yes..it may lead nowhere which is where I actually already am..

but If I have no such "landmark" which are giving ,for me , real non personal advices about what is wrong, then I am surely lost only in pure analysing yes/no and again why not if one wishes to do so...

there is no problem with that as such as we apparently have been left alone with such job to go into or never....when a start in a different direction brought,according to my experience, by correctly living the sorrow of a so called life which simply is my state of mind, when I live it and do nothing else wit it, nor expect anything,which is huge for the analyser but it can do it as I know that , then a little helper may assist us yes...

The sorrow of life then have played its catalyst job..as for me it is a symptom and a little helper too....

But i understand dhirendra when he says:

dhirendra singh wrote: why to take burden of such heavy philosophy...or truth whatever...though no problem if it happens by chance...as it happened to you or K or...

Because the analytical search is really some heavy burden..there is a handful winners every 2500 years....by remaining analytical I am then going to increase the pain, in my case such doing was both unbearable and right....then out of such stupid self inflicted misery ,not aware that it is self inflicted from scratch of course,something always unexpected may be there but cleanly i cannot count on that at all in fact..unexpected like some of the deep goodness of life...

so what is left ? for me one thing , there is sorrow just live it...

now this does not appeal in a sort of Hollywood-like world....and here well I do not care if it does or not....that is what we call freedom of choice....freedom is an evil word for me ;-))

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 09 Aug 2015
Topic: What are dulling factors?

dhirendra singh wrote: And nice to read you :)

:-)..............................

Forum: A Quiet Space Sat, 12 Mar 2016
Topic: new member

thanks Clive.....:-)

Forum: A Quiet Space Sat, 12 Mar 2016
Topic: Self is mémory...

Salut Richard....:-)...two points I have no "answer" to them.

is self memory ? I don't know, this never had been clear for me....

Can reaction have a motive ?....in what I have seen of the program of what I call the analytical process, or whatever name is given by man to it, thought etc etc, it seems that there always are tons of motives of all sorts,obvious or hidden, etc behind any reaction, this sort of "me" and its desires to reach compares the reality whatever it is to its set of desires to reach, the universe has to fit my desires, we kill for that too of course....

yet , for me, desire is of course vital but for some reasons it goes loony!!, and so it comes to be a problem at the same time, what reveals it as you know is pain, or rather dukkha as employed by the Buddhist would be better according to me as its meaning is much wider than pain, sorrow etc globally I feel something wrong , what is that ?? then some sort of journey may or may not start depending on many factors .

reacting for me is vital, thinking is vital, no thinking-analysing = no what we call living organism ....thinking even help to move the body on this planet, as there is a real separation, a sort of me (who is not you) moving around avoiding trees, traps, cliffs, holes, etc a clear distinction between one item called me or whatever and what is not me, amazingly what is not me is the entire universe , this me is sort of fighting the neighbour but also the universe...

well if all that was peaceful , there would be little to say no ? But hell it is :-(

Now a tricky feeling...for some years, I have this feeling that the failure of thought is meant to happen, it must fails and it does globally fail yet here and there we can show proofs of our magnificence, machines and so on...but the psychological state of mankind is , I see it that way, a disaster..life has become suffering....

now if this feeling is right , for me in my weird logic as well as seen in deep moments, this door where suffering and more generally dukkha is , must be walked through for thought to be defeated by itself without searching for it AT ALL.....

then there may be no door at all but this is another story..

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 13 Mar 2016
Topic: Self is mémory...

richard villlar wrote: Comment vas tu depuis notre dernier échange??

Salut, des moments un peu troublés avec des problèmes d’adolescents en quête d'absolu X dans le monde extérieur, en fuite de soi déjà donc , dans un monde qui dirige tout le monde verse cela...

richard villlar wrote: What I try to mean here is the fact that the notion of "motive", is an idea, a concept... What we named "motive" is a reaction... a thought, a thought is a reaction... a reaction which come from memory which reacts from brain stimulation etc.. motive is an idea. .. tu vois ce que je veux dire...?

Yes I get that. agreed that it is a concept , an analytical conclusion of "mankind", not a deep rooted real fact as such, like a tree is not a tree, this is just our analytical perception and describing with words etc...I think you put it quite clearly for me here.

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 13 Mar 2016
Topic: Self is mémory...

max greene wrote: But there is also an action which is not a reaction, an action that is not stimulus-driven. This is the action of awareness and understanding, and this action is choiceless action. This action in creative.

Hello Max,

yes I know, experience-wise, what you are talking about here....I always find difficult to put it in words , well my problem ,many words do not really convey much anymore to me, is it senility or something else hard to be sure of it..:-))

would you agree to say that in clear, there is let's say what we call thinking as a process ( actually the only one left at work for us, others are not functioning) and much more than this only one in our lives.....others, whatever they entirely are, are not using choice, evaluation, comparing, opinion and all of it ??

if so it is the end of so called competition,war, business etc etc

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 13 Mar 2016
Topic: Self is mémory...

Clive Elwell wrote: Would you say more about this Buddhist concept of dukkha, Paul?

Well Clive, it is a long subject but I can throw here what to me seems to give a sort of "idea" of that word ..

Defining Dukkha

The Buddha taught there are three main categories of dukkha. These are:

Suffering or pain (dukkha-dukkha) Impermanence or change (viparinama-dukkha) Conditioned states (samkhara-dukkha)

Let's take these one at a time.

Suffering or Pain (Dukkha-dukkha). Ordinary suffering, as defined by the English word, is one form of dukkha. This includes physical, emotional and mental pain.

Impermanence or Change (Viparinama-dukkha). Anything that is not permanent, that is subject to change, is dukkha. Thus, happiness is dukkha, because it is not permanent. Great success, which fades with the passing of time, is dukkha. Even the purest state of bliss experienced in spiritual practice is dukkha.

This doesn't mean that happiness, success and bliss are bad, or that it's wrong to enjoy them. If you feel happy, then enjoy feeling happy. Just don't cling to it.

Conditioned States (Samkhara-dukkha). To be conditioned is to be dependent on or affected by something else. According to the teaching of dependent origination, all phenomena are conditioned. Everything affects everything else. This is the most difficult part of the teachings on dukkha to understand, but it is critical to understanding Buddhism.

I am not a follower of Buddhism, I just find that this is more my own cup of tea...when it comes to mention suffering...

as when I use suffering, in fact I mean the feeling-sensation itself, the symptom itself, not related yet to anything, any root, any cause, which for me and some must be kept untouched meaning thought does nothing do anything with it consciously BUT ALSO unconsciously ,then it is going to provoke "something" entirely beyond thought control, about the root by itself, this, matter of many experiencing is by passing the reaction of thought on suffering, which needs to be done ,etc

this for me is clearly another process....

cheers

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 14 Mar 2016
Topic: choice?

richard villlar wrote:

richard villlar wrote:

What k named action, is Life réaction

When K said « there is an action which is not a reaction... » I think very much that he mean by reaction, « self-reaction »

the word action mean independence, autonomous but there is nothing which is independent and autonomous, all is linked, interdependent.

Salut ma poule...:-)

For me yes it is that way as well....as you know ,from our long sharing and exchanges, now( that is for others to know) having known time where the so called self was not anymore leading the whole brain totally out of the blue , unexpected etc etc, for myself I know that this so called self was still there , but only where it should be functioning, another function ? another energy a deep strange blissful one, where "absolute contentment" ( I totally mean that) is then present , I would say that it is there as it wishes, man and his thinking process clearly have no control at all on that..on the contrary..

This is to say that yes my own non analytical experiences say that what you imply here - (richard: there is nothing which is independent and autonomous, all is linked, interdependent) -..is a fact..into my eyes too..

it is about global unity, made of a number of X unknown elements , different elements, all working smoothly together, ..in our case what we call thought and which I prefer to call the analytical process, prevents this working together at all levels....competition so business so war( legal murders) ,racism, violence, conflict , etc etc..comes from such separation.....

to be continued of course, this is a sort of never ending subject

cheers

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 14 Mar 2016
Topic: Self is mémory...

You are welcome Clive...

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 14 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Clive Elwell wrote:

Defining Dukkha The Buddha taught there are three main categories of dukkha. These are: Suffering or pain (dukkha-dukkha) Impermanence or change (viparinama-dukkha) Conditioned states (samkhara-dukkha)

Clive: Presumably these three categories are not meant to be separate? I would say they do more than overlap, they are different descriptions of the same thing

Hello Clive....so first of all the Buddha did not write anything, what we have at the best is from disciples,followers, concerned people etc some 70 years after his death, this is what is said...

if there is one symptom of pain for all of us, such symptom (may) have many roots. For me my experiences say this: my own thinking had never been able to solve any of such deep problem where dukkha leading to suffering is involved, never , not once !!

I don't know if they are meant or not to be separate.

Clive Elwell wrote: Clive: Is the implication that there IS something that is not impermanent?

Well it could be sensed that way now that I think about it yes but again I don't know...

Clive Elwell wrote: Clive: Is this possible, to separate out the feeling-sensation from the cause? Does it exist on its own? I think I have experienced this with physical pain, at least. Ad is this the same as K talks of – experiencing a feeling without naming it?

A sort of different awareness-perception ( clearly not from our usual thought) can coexist with the analytical thinking process at some early stage in a major crisis properly lives meaning where there is no more escape but only pain as a symptom invading everything, for me this is what K means by only suffering can solve suffering!

you can get the "full Monty" out of the blue when for some unknown reasons this deep bliss which is absolute contentment is there for no apparent reasons ,in such case whatever X energy or-and capacity which is there put thought where it belongs to only..

this is clearly like changing of dimension...beyond words...absolute contentment seems very true to mention then

you must know that my approach of all that is based on my own experience and implies to let the symptom of suffering that dukkha provoke , be....I had to discover that for me quite young..

I say that the putting all that in words is very difficult, specially since the language has lost much of its precision..

when I read words of Buddha , or k and so on, or even listen to some Indian shaman , everyone mentions the same "thing", there is no discovery at all as such, there are just person living "it"....

Something triggers that, does this happen for no reasons is a good question, but I won't even try to answer it..

Clive Elwell wrote: . Escape from the pain of attachment through further attachment.

And seeing all this mirrored in “my own” mind – which of course is not mine.

For me pain is not incidental, when luckily we could have felt no pain...it is a process of some sort, a function, a set up function...

But yes more attachment is created by escaping it and the pain of it...this is my view too. ( I have no problem to use I, me etc..)

Amazingly many words, expression, used by K do not speak to me, mirroring is one of them....but that is fine, it will or not come in due time if it has to..

Clive Elwell wrote: Yes, odd that the Buddha saw all this two and half thousand years ago – the same suffering, the same causes, although much 'simpler' manifestations.

K clearly stated that there is no psychological evolution, I strongly agree, so may be 100 000 years ago, depending of the level of lies about our past, some human where having the exact same trouble within themselves....

cheers...

Forum: A Quiet Space Tue, 15 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Clive Elwell wrote: Dan, despite your protestation, I am taking you for the Buddhist expert, and asking you (or anyone) how the Buddha was supposed to have transcended Dukkha?

Well, hello first Clive....

hello Richard I see that you have mentioned ignorance here, a veil , a distortion of the real etc , for me it needs more to say about it..

I am walking on eggs here , it can be so wrong...

Anything which is dukkha, creates a symptom to tell us, we can call it suffering, anxiety etc etc etc ad libitum...Already here this I mention implies that something X knows,tells,shows,etc

the symptom if felt tells me: something is wrong here, this must be fixed...

this is where it goes "loony", as what I seem to perceive for myself through many experiences is that this symptom ,talking to anyone of us without any discrimination, is a catalyst too...it could even be a function to be used only in one way, it has to be left totally alone....if I try to avoid the symptom linked with all what is dukkha, or to get used to it, to refuse it, to ignore it and for me even to face it etc, all this just gives more strength to the symptom which the older I get is now felt as a pain....suicide is as I know it, the attempt to escape pain, and not the desire to die..

It is usually accepted that Buddha had mentioned the middle path, and for me I doubt that saying, there is choice and usually two options yes or no...the right path would be in between...

to me that seems impossible, he possibly have mentioned the third path or the third eye which is neither yes or no nor in between...another path not linked to the others...

He possibly had found his way to leave the symptoms of dukkha alone, then revelation time has begun....

he possibly have not at all of course...This came to me without searching or trying to explain, it does mean that it is fact....for me I feel that as a fact.

I was interested in Buddha's saying about suffering so dukkha after some "experiences" with suffering and I was dead curious to read what he was mentioning about that, same with k and this is where you see that you did not discover anything as such at all, but just lived a bit of what others had been through too and will of course, not to the extend of those two persons in my case..

I was interested as I personally have since a quite young a sort of forced cohabitation with dukkha and its symptoms of pain and the attempt to escape it.

this when not escaped having produced impossible moments like kundalini where this weird bliss which is total contentment for no reasons is there...and more. I have mentioned on this site often so I do not go into it more.

there seems to be spontaneous total contentment when the analytical process does not lead the brain mind anymore says what I have lived, when this happens something else immediately takes the lead, instantly something unmissable happens ..and this something else is bliss and more than that....the question of the meaning will not be ask in such moments, only a suffering mind ask that question.

my present time is with the absence of this huge bliss since many years, it has deserted my company. I have some sort of work to cure my own sick mind first, by finding different ways to leave the symptom initiated by all what is dukkha be a catalyst..this is what I know...When one way is found it cannot be used again, memory prevents such thing,because in such moments the unconscious must be part of such event, and this is possible as far as I know at least at the beginning , possible only by using this catalyst I mention..being here dukkha and all its complexity, but the complexity n be simplified bu using pain as a catalyst, pain like suffering, discontentment ,fear, anxiety with various origin....what thought tries to do is to analyse all what it can find, for me it has no access to the unconscious ,as it is too limited to some areas only

on such "road" there is no guess of any kind to be made....about what ma or not happen...

Both uneasy and interesting....long long long subject....

that is all for now.....I am conscious to use me and I often, not a problem for me, as this marks the relative aspect of what is said here..thanks to have brought the subject..

all this may sound great but not that much, the absence of total contentment is more a curse than anything else....k mentioned it and sorry to day but one more time he is right...not to be anchored in "that" is a curse..hard to live...yet it is OK at the same time

not too sure about what is written, won't reread but I leave it here anyway...sort of a bit sorry to be so personal but I have no problem with that as anyone speaks personal whether it is lies or fact..real or imaginary, k included, as he could not have mentioned something which somehow did not go through his brain , in his case it is a non self centred personal I guess...

Forum: A Quiet Space Tue, 15 Mar 2016
Topic: Quote of the D

Salut Richard...

well first of all without memory we would not be here, in fact we would be as Dan or Richard ,nowhere, non existent as such.. that was obvious for me when my father got a stroke and lost so much memory....alone give him a few days and he would be dying..

I often thought that to be selfish is logical, to be selfish for me means to deal with yourself properly...it does not mean yet to steal, kill, invade,torture etc etc

this is a subject which does not speak much to me in fact, but using some logic lets say for fun , if without memory there is nobody, the so called I which is existent with memory is the body and its program....

when seeing within the program of the analytical program or thought I have seen in flashes from time to time, there is a clear need to be aware of the body ,when moving, to feed it, take care of it etc....there is a program for that dividing one body and the environment, people,animals,plants etc included.....

I am not sure at all, but it could be a false trap as a subject ???

it seems to me that more than this me, the inadequacy of our response to this dukkha,suffering,discontentment etc of life, driving us mad is what makes human not only suffer but mad....without any correct discernment ...

the only reality of our lives globally speaking is for me that it is crap, not nice etc , apart if and when I reach what I want for some short times where I can forget my misery so demanding for more all the time...

what I want not being a root but only an effect what lies behind that ? part is what we call desire originated from a program that I call the analytical program with binary yes/no conclusion, almost all the time forgetting the "I don't know", this program uses memory and the analysing of it in a very limited way, limited to its memory and desires and innate capacity...

for myself i have seen that without desires this program has no reason at all to react, do things..desire is vital then ??

if so what goes wrong with all that.....I think that it is more complex that self or not self....much more...and again, all this may be seen with some luck by living what is by finding ways to leave it untouched.....

we try to direct lives, for myself I have understood that Mother Nature is there to play that role....

Nature,whatever is all its nature, is the boss casually speaking,whether we like it or not, or it happens that globally we do not like it and try to be the boss....as it includes death so no blissful continuity . So much is warning us about the analytical process which must not be the leader of our then mechanical and random lives with one single quest: supreme happiness, security, and a life forever.....according to me, you, them us, etc

etc of course..:-))

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Clive Elwell wrote: Now would you say that the seeing of this, as an absolute fact, has its own action?

Hello Clive, any seeing, insight, vision etc meaning that thought as we know it is not involved as the decision-maker, so desires are not again trying to be self realised even subliminally or unconsciously, yes then in such condition the seeing brings an immediate radical change...K speaks of action in such case yes..for now we go with that term so..the action can be psychological leading to eventual physical action too...

When in time of deep deep sorrow where incapable to even work for two years, when such seeing happened, instantly the two years were just vanished with the seeing out of the blue of the root problem ...I know for myself that thought was not involved...you know there is a quality in such moments that thought NEVER have, then you just know..

this is what I call the other process, a non analytical one, capable to reach what has become unconscious for the superficial analyser and much more than that.

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

richard villlar wrote: For me Buddha and others transcended (after found it) Dukkha with meditation. And he found this non way with meditation. All that Buddha found was through meditation... Dukkha, the four nobles truth, impermanence, interdependence, emptiness etc...

Hello richard, at the end of his days on earth k had mentioned somewhere that he should not have used the word meditation...as you know as many other words this word does not speak to me really...and of course it does because I do not see myself at all as meditating,...what I mean here is that using the word ,even when we shared much, still does not say enough...one word here is not sufficient ..

the only thing I know is this leaving the symptoms created by dukkha alone and nothing else...this brings or not, its own "movement" and some other capacity to work...

when I mention suffering or dukkha or pain, it is not necessarily a big huge one, it may really be tiny, but usually as I see in others they are got used to it as natural part of their lives!! For myself I do not want of that at all!!

I have learnt to feel it all the time as as long as there is not the weird presence of this blessing bringing absolute contentment, I can really say that thought is suffering, permanently ,even when I am happy as I got what I wanted ,end of the story..

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Clive Elwell wrote: If I may quote K here:

Suffering is a shock to awaken you, to help you to understand life. When you experience death, you feel utter loneliness, the loss of support; you are like the man who has been deprived of his crutches. But if you immediately seek crutches again in the shape of comfort, companionship, security, you deprive the shock of its significance.

hello again Clive...

to what we can add this from K

Pain itself destroys pain. Suffering itself frees man from suffering.

Jiddu Krishnamurti: The Little Book on Living

And here all is said..too brief of course but the core is there , well it is in my view.

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Clive Elwell wrote: I have not come across this book. Can you say which period the quote was from? I really mean post Theosophy days or otherwise.

No I don't know....but I read that in a few books from him when thoroughly searching for all what k had said on the subject....This morning I found it here ..

Clive Elwell wrote: Would you say he is saying that complete non action in regards suffering is the only right response?

Well yes and know, the trick is that there must not be any answer at all...

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Clive Elwell wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

the trick is that there must not be any answer at all...

In terms of knowledge, yes.

I mean no response at all, at some stage there is only the symptom , a signal of wrongness , a warning....any attempt of any sort to touch this symptom leads nowhere....this means that I as Dan have acknowledge my defeat by suffering originated from all what is dukkha whatever the consequences are..........

it takes at least that minimum for the analytical program to be send away to where it belongs too, such "doing nothing" brings what is necessary from the unconscious where most unsolved problems for me are stored to be extracted and seen deeply.. this is a sort of movement , always meant to vary, change so movable etc

if and when something takes place, there is nothing much to say about it as a process, this process for me have its own autonomy....its own set up, its own ways of doing its job...

What I say here so far and as far as I may know about this, is that it seems that the main concern is not to analytically deal with tons of subjects, but to actually be concerned by one's own "disaster" in life.

for the analytical program to go that far is a bit like accepting under an unbearable pressure to stop leading and willing..because then in such moment the link thinking = suffering will be lived for once...

Again then what we call suffering is of course not incidental , it is a function..if this is so it implies that the analytical program is due to produce that etc...even with a simple logic this goes so far...I find that amazing!

it is both very simple and complex because the analytical brain again can play such role too, but of course it will be all empty and fake, bringing sooner or later more and more problems...

etc a never ending story, well the death of the body will put an end to that of course.

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Salut ma poule..

hello Richard :-)

As you know I never did anything like that, the most profound, so far, impossible state which met my life took place in a crowded ugly town, very noisy , in the middle of many people, by a dull day and myself I was totally sad and not well at all before it started.....

As you mention

richard villlar wrote: I don't say that's the only way,

But I was not searching at all..

stupid question now: how do you prononce your name with 3 L ?? :-))

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

richard villlar wrote: Yes Dan I Know... as we talk a lot about that. .. and we see that there is no contradiction. What you talk about, come from sadness/suffering which make "crisis" into mental and disconnect it. I talk about a sensibilisation (an awareness) Which operates in daily life even if the suffering is not sufficient to make a "crisis"

Hello again

Well yes....in fact for me there is no crisis but a constant state of the analyser , like there is no political and economical crisis but a permanent state of conflict violence up to war of course, there is a constant frustration and all of it up to heavy despair by living only an analytical life....thought is always frustrated and never get what it wants...this is why when one man may possess the entire people and things, he will still be absolutely frustrated and will get no bliss out of it, but more misery...

all this bla bla to say that the awareness of one's own suffering issued from all what the bouddhist call dukkha , from a suffering which is imperceptible for most up to heavy pain, is a constant awareness at all moments of the day as well... because this is the state of thought to be that way.....

thought is incomplete , and worse for me is not meant to work on its own ..if it is good enough as a child ,yet in many you already see the problems coming up from quite young, when all the body and brain is now a finish product, deep problems start..leading to Hiroshima ,ww2 and 70 million killed,violence, competition ,poverty, torture, business etc etc in short leading to insanity..

the particularity of sadness suffering is first that we all want to get rid of that...then .....nothing !! and 6000 years later nothing has changed at all....

Do you see it as a first step( k would add "last step???) or in your own case the meditation you go for is what brought some special moments ??

I see it at a first step not to be missed myself but is it so ?? And secondly I see it present each time I is wrong , even as a tiny imperceptible signal unless one is used to it, the tiny signal becomes more and more powerful up to unbearable pain, depending on people , of their own balance + and - and their own awareness of what man's world factually is, to be quite totally blind happens . At the end of his days k said : sorrow I thought I'd lost you....meaning it did not solved sorrow....the other energy we know covers up sorrow, but does not solve it....is what I know...

all this has to be taken lightly and carefully,the words in this matter never says it all and as it should be...so to be taken more as a sort of casual sharing of real moments than anything else..then something may or not come up out of it..

what is said here eventually implies that a factor X "knows" what is wrong for us says my logic, does this imply that the same factor x "knows" what is right, or more simply IS RIGHT ?? that is another question asked by my own logic....I am not searching for answers..the cherry on the top of this nice cake now, last question but no search for any answer: is all that guiding us....??

etc...

schuss !!...bises ;-)

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Hello and not sorry Max, I do not go ,well I totally consciously refuse knowing why, to go into such attack, that is the way of life in the states but not that common where I live...so common too on all K websites, especially here but alas common to all the internet .

one "hello Dan" would have been nice too....:-(

not interested is my final word so...

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

max greene wrote: So hello, Dan. Glad to hear that you are not looking for argument. It is a poison that infects the other forum.

But many posts (others as well as yours) are long and rambling. Is truth this difficult to come by? Is truth something that has to be parsed so carefully, milled so fine?

Hello Max, glad too :-)

Well as far as I am concerned I am trying to make them short, very short according to what I try to say......when I write here there is a total focus on trying to say some moments I have lived, because during moments in bliss there is nothing to be said as I know it... one point is that what I am trying to mention here non only saved my life physically and mentally from hell, gave me a life, not the usual one, back, and has lead somehow to many moments like k mentions and do not mention et it seems that he had lived....but chose to be discrete about..yet in his early writing we can here and there find some very "weird" stuff..

Anyway on any forum we have facts , lies , intellectual guesses, real experiences etc ...and fights.

Back to explain a bit why long post , for example k says " Pain itself destroys pain. Suffering itself frees man from suffering. "

....is that enough ??If this is true it needs more is not it...because it means that the person who said it can go into it precisely..which k does but not where this is written as it is disseminated all over the place in his talks...

I am just attempting to share those moments I know as I feel I must do that,like Richard I know well at this level does , as closely as possible because in them is something so deeply interesting, and why not even vital...that is a serious possibility.. nothing less and nothing more...

thanks

Forum: A Quiet Space Wed, 16 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

richard villlar wrote: in these quotes, K present it as a first step, he was here an educator... but in fact there is no step, there is more and more sensitization/sensibilization (au niveau sensitif) of brain's detection of its movements... for then, (with what offer to us the daily life in term of discontentment) can operate naturally

Yes I understand; we surely come back to that some other time...

swing la bacquaise dans l'fond d'la boite à bois....

avec accent quebecois ,ça vient de là bas...je ne sais toujours pas ce que ca veut dire....:-))

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 20 Mar 2016
Topic: Quote of the D

richard villlar wrote: in this quote it's very important to notify that the confusion exists before in memory... avant d'être expulsée en pensée.

Hello Richard, can you develop this a bit more please?

I understand what you say, I mean the words but I do not see exactly what it is about...In short I am interested to listen more to what you have seen for yourself in this matter..

cheers...

Forum: A Quiet Space Fri, 25 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Hello to anyone reading that :-)

I think today's quote (25/03/2016) fits here totally...

Does becoming lead to being? Through time can there be the Timeless? Through conflict can there be tranquillity? Through war, hate, can there be love? Only when becoming ceases is there being; through the horizontal process of time the Eternal is not; conflict does not lead to tranquillity; hate cannot be changed to love. The becomer can never be tranquil. Craving can never lead to that which is beyond and above all craving. The chain of sorrow is broken only when the becomer ceases to become, positively or negatively.

in my words : when the analytical process stays where it belongs to and shuts up anywhere else when somehow such miracle happens,well to put it straight and clear , it is deep bliss time..with many totally unpredictable happenings around that...whether of low or high intensity bliss has the same taste...

what is amazing for me is that this bliss cannot at all be imagined by thought in the sense, it has no clue nor link with such energy..so it is nowhere in all written books by us , nor in words, anything man made contains no bliss....the self reward of the analytical process being set up and embedded within the program itself is there only to make the analytical process work...like desire does..

At the end of the day I is a separate body for sure, but is the outcome somehow of sub programs like desires and self pride to have done something good ...without it we probably would not be able to make a proper shelter ...it is vital to have such sub programs , incentives ,....this is what is (will) killing the species as well....this analytical program and its incentives, for me, were not meant to work on their own, the loss of some other capacity(ies) is then a disaster..

having lived more than a few times some of them , not my actuality though , I see that...

can I be willing to have that back somehow ?? I can try but as we say in French: là tu peux te brosser monique :-))..( not possible to translate sorry..)

A "voice" told me long ago: you can't reach it....

so no becoming then !

As long as the analyser is leading, well....better luck next life..as it will try consciously and much worse unconsciously to do something about that...like it does about sorrow, dukkha...

not an easy problem ...

cheers..

Forum: A Quiet Space Sun, 27 Mar 2016
Topic: Dukkha / Suffering

Clive Elwell wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

not an easy problem ...

Are not all problems, and all so-called solutions, created by thought? And also the one who tries to solve the problem, he is also created by thought.

So thought goes on, and on, and on .....

Good morning Clive....

If this is all what we have we are, quoting k, doomed as such...endless conflicts , business so wars are what we are best at...then if so I must get ready for this everyday fight....

I had lived, like some, experiences beyond thoughts without any doubt at all, about that which say differently, there is "beauty, calm ,energy, peace etc" beyond thought, to me it seems to be possible as well because we have some other set up too capacities alas mostly turned off....problem is such experiences unlike any innate or acquired practical capacity does not jump to another one.....even for myself it is not renewable...what had been once will not be twice in this field seems to be the fact here, unlike in practical fields...those capacities as far as I know do not create any hierarchy, do not evaluate, do not compare, etc...only with that we can see that our outer problems are solved..

what I am interested in for myself and as an eventual sharing because I clearly feel that I must say,whatever the reactions are, is what can trigger such momentum where thought clearly shuts up out of the blue without really knowing why , but not where it is needed of course...thought is vital too...and some parts are evil sometimes or often.

dukkha suffering sorrow discontentment frustration etc properly lived are such trigger..in the way that to solve that even one at the time, so partially, suffering and so called me have to be one item, somehow....it is to each one to find a way into that...back to k, no more observer and observed...

for me it is even a process, consciously by ??? induced in us, in the program to provoke such rejection of the analytical process when it is invading wrong fields....as long as I do not live all that properly, thought is still all what I have....a brake through does not take place....for some it is fine....since young on dukkah side...I had to do something...

A door to a right guidance in life beyond thought it could be, for me it is..this implies that something unknown X, knows...

as usual it is now etc etc etc....bien sur :-)

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 28 Mar 2016
Topic: ISIS etc

Hello without going to the root of who created those groups, to whom does it benefit, basically they were convicts and criminal people in Saudi Arabia and such countries, a country friend of the US(elites), the EU(elites), and more than that etc etc etc,without that all thinking and action is totally biased...false , propaganda....lies...

did you noticed that never , not one member of the elites is threatened, only random civilian etc and in Isis case mainly some other Muslim people, but if you never heard about the so called "salafist" branch of the Muslim , a branch born from a recognised totally nut mad cuckoo guy in saudi arabia some time ago by the all Muslim community itself of his time..

who benefits from that? in Europe the coming totalitarian EU of course, fear is still the most appreciated and efficient way to rule the sheep.....Europe is ruled from Brussels by employees , by who?, not even elected of course...etc

but EU is not the boss her....who is behind the EU ? etc etc

informations are available by searching the web carefully....it takes a lot of time

Searching for the top bank , and all answers will show themselves...like in the monopoly game, there is a top bank selling counterfeit money..what is that bank ?? tip the central bank of the EU started to do the very same some month ago..selling counterfeit money to countries of the EU which are not allowed to created their own money..and must buy money from private banks which do not have this money yet are selling plenty of it...buying that false money to the main dealer , the central bank....etc etc this counterfeit money is mainly directly into the pocket of banks to sustain the stock exchange market of course, it does not go to the needed people..this system collapse some 40 years ago ish....our system is dead and can still exist only through coercion, utter violence, lies, constant brain washing from school etc etc etc etc and more deadly if needed....

without huge money, logistic, heavy weapons, formations ,access to satellite informations etc etc such group can't exist out of the blue....

All this being of course in the superficiality of things...already not perceived by most...

then the creator may simply be some in the western world and friends vested interested of the few, always playing the poor victim when we actually are the founders of such group...

Is it the war of the few calling themselves elites, a bunch of criminals against people of earth may be the only fact here...? and they win because they cooperate, they do not play competition, there are less "stupid", than us..

Is there a need for any more answer ?

As long as life is competition, this will never stop...

I have seen in a vision that competition comes directly from a sub program in the analytical program we have and in fact is not competition at all but elimination....normally a process used to deal with practical matters ONLY.....like if I do the roof like this it won't be good so I eliminate this option....we do the same with people, animal ,everything..pure insanity it is..

we always come down to that....to each one,.....

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 28 Mar 2016
Topic: link?

richard villlar wrote: Is the psychological separate from physical...? Is the psychological different than physical. ..?

Salut Richard....

well again not an easy subject to approach. I have been into that from time to time, I wonder about that, it is a question which interests me..

First I do not know, I have no lived enough of facts about it...then now it is entering in the dangerous world of guesses and all of it..

I have found, experience wise, a correlation , a similarity, between mental pain and physical pain up to a point ..I recently had twice very severe pain due to a big huge gall stone in the gall bladder, kind of 10 out of 10 on the pain scale, where amazingly even the pain killer would not work...I am very mentally resistant to pain in the sense that I first do that then find ways to leave it be....so for hours all what was was pain.....nothing else but pain....

on the opposite bed was a guy in the same state...

Then all of a sudden after hours of pain only it just was gone....

So called psychological pain does seem to follow the same pattern.....in what I know

for once I make it short but at the end of the day...

.......Don't we have here only set up programs and reactions as well as functions....and my all belief of what I am is not right in fact...

when something is wrong = pain....is pain a catalyst too, is it too not only a symptom but a function ??

I experimented physical pain as having a therapeutic need and effect, like it mentally has...I do not have any obvious answer..

but if it is so , this gives a hint to your questions..

Forum: A Quiet Space Mon, 28 Mar 2016
Topic: ISIS etc

m christani wrote: It does come down to each one. It is the minority who inquire, learn, that are going to change anything fundamentally

Hello. if there is deep change , yes but it has to become a majority, including a passive yet cooperative part of the people....voluntary cooperation being then the goodness of it..my view..

m christani wrote: Perhaps politics should be left to the politicians. They only represent the masses anyway...

For me they represent themselves, their interests only, it is a good way only using tons of blah blah and without one day of real work to make fortunes and gain power....to do whatever "I" want if possible....a way out of many to escape from the impermanence of life

very childish but what's about the people voting for them ??

cheers