Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Daniel Paul.'s Forum Activity | 350 posts in 3 forums


Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 27 May 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

as we were talking about meditation , the quote of the day is helping us.

So, then, what do we mean by understanding? Understanding means giving right significance, right valuation, to all things. To be ignorant is to give wrong values; the very nature of stupidity is the lack of comprehension of right values.

So, understanding comes into being when there are right values, when right values are established. And how is one to establish right values - the right value of property, the right value of relationship, the right value of ideas?

For the right values to come into being, you must understand the thinker, must you not? If I don't understand the thinker, which is myself, what I choose has no meaning, that is, if I don't know myself, then my action, my thought, have no foundation whatsoever.

So, self-knowledge is the beginning of meditation - not the knowledge that you pick up from my books, from authorities, from gurus, but the knowledge that comes into being through self-inquiry, which is self-awareness.

Meditation is the beginning of self-knowledge, and without self-knowledge there is no meditation. Because, if I don't understand the ways of my thoughts, of my feelings, if I don't understand my motives, my desires, my demands, my pursuit of patterns of action, which are ideas - I do not know myself, there is no foundation for thinking; and the thinker who merely asks, prays, or excludes, without understanding himself, must inevitably end in confusion, in illusion.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 29 May 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

after all what was recently said...for my own life, I see the need of a catalyst of some sort because thinking cannot go beyond thinking, yet it tries hard ,exactly like my lawnmower cannot fly from Ireland to the north pole....well the lawnmower did not try yet..

A catalyst is triggering and participating somehow in a reaction, the result will not contain the catalyst in it...it is vital to start and help with a reaction...

before any insight, revealing, meditation, kundalini, turning on of the other process etc etc etc something (must) happens to trigger somehow, such event!

For me , I mean not as a Universal truth, yet it could be, what is found in our unhappy lives is such a trigger; to be so called unhappy is part of a process which has a purpose to bring us from a the known to somewhere else unknown.., it is practically a mean to awake some sort of guidance for us, when I sense what it is!!

to seek for happiness is again finding for more unhappiness, yet of course from time to time some rewards do work up to a point, the analyser has its own world and so its own rewards, always containing in all cases some suffering of some sort(fear ,anxiety,more cravings etc etc etc).......when thought is touching such trigger with its dirty hands, then nothing new, radical, different and in goodness never happens..the trigger does not work.....so there is no other process turned on, shitty life..yet pretending that all is fine of course..and for some it can be yes...this demands possession and means to do all what I want, and this is going to be stolen from others of course as alone I do not even survive...

well of course here I mention suffering-sorrow as a catalyst..so far I do not see any other..if there are some I do not see them....

In what I am saying , it is then somehow sorrow which decides instead of me as an analyser where to go...as sorrow cannot be analytically solved, understood etc..it is the perfect trigger........

then at some stage,when having spent much time in this corner it can be perceived for what it is, a warning ,a signal that what I am up to is wrong, when it happens; we know sorrow because we do not listen, and we do not listen because we do not know about such warning, which can be perceived as a helper of some sort....

then each time something is wrong in my thoughts , this warning can eventually be operational,if I can sense it each time....

A question with no answer sought: let us say that I am not loony, what or who is guiding then ??

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 04 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

ESTABLISH YOUR PURPOSE

Bombay, India 1927

Human beings forget the goal to which their life leads; hence there is always confusion. Because of the lack of foresight of the thing they desire, they are confused and they are lost, and it is for this reason that you must establish for yourself whither you are going, what your purpose is in life. And when once you have established this for yourself -not by the authority of another, not by the authority of sacred books, nor by the authority of individuals but by a clear-cut ideal- and have definitely decided to follow it, you will attain liberation. And if you have been able to establish such an ideal, then that ideal will become part of your own life and you will walk towards that goal, all things becoming easy to you.

Now, you will see wherever you look -beyond the seas, in America or in Europe- you will find that there is confusion of purpose. The people of the West are seeking happiness, as everyone else in the world is seeking, but they are seeking it in material things. Because they have lost the purpose, because they have forgotten the goal, they are lost in the things that do not matter. If, for example, you desire to go to a particular house and you know the path that leads to that particular house, and you know where the house exists and its exact address, the path to that house will be quite easy and you will go there, avoiding pitfalls without any difficulty. When you know the goal, you will get there, time being of no account. But if you did not know to what house you were going, and what was your goal, you would get lost in the bye paths, in the narrow streets, and in the wayside houses. But when once you have established for yourself the goal towards which you are tending, all things, which lead you away from that goal will have no attraction for you. It is for this that men struggle through their days, during their years and during their many lives. It is, to me, that Kingdom of Happiness which gives Liberation. We are like the river that at the beginning is small but grows as she flows towards the sea, in search of liberation. On her way she accumulates many experiences, feeds many banks and many trees and quenches the thirst of many people and gathers many waters; and slowly, through many places and through the progress of time, she reaches the sea, where she finds her liberation. But when entering that sea of liberation, she brings her experiences of sorrow, of delight and of joy and gives to the sea a part of them. That is the purpose of a human being. When once you have found that and established that for yourself, then life becomes very easy, life becomes very simple and also comprehensive, and all the religious shackles and complications, all religious superstitions vanish, and you remain as steadfast as the sky, looking and trying to learn from everywhere. To attain Liberation has been my aim for many years together. Because when once you have tasted that Liberation you will really be able to help. Then you are beyond the limits of birth and death. Because you have entered into that Kingdom of Liberation and Happiness, you will become one of the great helpers of the world.

Thus the purpose of human life is to accumulate experience and from that experience to learn wisdom, and from that wisdom to hear the voice of intuition, which will lead us towards the goal which belongs to everyone, irrespective of caste, race or religion, irrespective of forms of worship of any God. So you see, if you have that view, if you have such a purpose in life, then all the restricting ideas of your religious thought, all your narrowness will vanish and you will become like the sun, giving light to all those who seek it. And there lies the beauty of life, which is seen in the bright running waters. We must therefore come out of our stagnation and go into the stream of Liberation.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 15 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Dan McDermott wrote: Thanks for your posts. I always find them interesting as I'm sure others do.

Well I appreciate , the point to write here is to try to say to others a quite precise experiment reproducing itself differently each time but on the same wavelength, so then it is fine...I was thinking about leaving soon, so far each time this idea came to me something, like here your words, happens, so I keep on writing...

I use that post to say that behind the word sorrow I put this: frustration, discontentment, mental suffering, boredom, sadness, depression, meaningless life, fear, anxiety, dissatisfaction, etc...so it is quite a wide spectrum... what a job for a single word... the word dukkha in the past times of the Buddha would have such job...but this is an old word,which is more than fine, but now the meaning is gone ...

All those words to signify that whatever I-we are up to, it is never good enough,as long as it is in the field of the analyser...

when the otherness is there ,there is none of that is what I know..such life was free of sorrow , fear, etc..and meaningful..

sorrow says: I am here to help, please leave me alone, do not touch me...etc

and I say yes that is precisely the point...and for me it is not coincidence.

Here I find too a remarkable possible more than a coincidence, that it works like physical pain up to a point...this point being : I do not know if physical pain is a catalyst too,as it is obviously a symptom...so when I am in some physical pain, I recently had gall stone so a heavy pain for 8 hours ish I tried to be aware of that..I did come to any obvious observation yet..I must precise that I am not at all a masochist :-))

the thing is that pain whether mental or physical could use the same "program", the same stream...this is more playing with logic for the moment and may be just wrong..

thanks..the other dan..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 17 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Dan McDermott wrote:

max greene wrote:

If this is truly realized, and if it is realized that all that is done is done by the self, in the name of the self, and that there is no possible escape from the self, then isn't this state of realization -- awareness -- actually freedom from the self?

That sounds right...it's the 'truly realized' part that seems, for me, to be the difficulty.

max greene wrote: The difficulty for all of us.

hello Max and the other Dan....

without the so called self producing something very painful, unknown, perceived as a suffering so immediately rejected mentally yet this does not work at all, , without that I do not see how it would be possible to realize anything at all but only verbal and intellectual sort of ideal, since the analyser (self or whatever name) must have a dam good reason to stop itself..as for me this is what it is about....I have nothing as such against intellectual ideals but so far in my life, this brought nothing in goodness at all, never but cruel delusions and sorrows ...when something else did brought goodness..

so far I only came across experiment wise, since very young, about what is behind pain as a symptom and a catalyst to leave free in order to force the analyser to totally distrust itself WITHOUT ANY MOTIVE BEHIND, so that includes what is unconscious.The "no motive behind" is vital I explain why for me it is so, down below..

This "doing" , this defeat, implies that the usual analytical bla bla bla goes on and that for once "something " can hear it and not listen to this BS...this is one talent of sorrow as a catalyst to be able to force the analyser to sort of freeze its dictatorship, even for a second, because for a second it will be living sorrow, which is its true mental state...it is like a switch-on button that his living sorrow is, because for such "time", the analyser is not the leader of the brain....

in such moment, the analyser still is there active as usual and somehow sorrow as a catalyst plays its part in creating "something X" which allows anyone in such state to not listen to the usual analytical bla bla bla .....sorrow is then lived, it can be so ONLY if there is no desire to go beyond and even to solve it.....this includes again the unconscious..

I know that for me because since I have seen for myself the depth and strength of this unconscious, it is unconscious for the superficial analyser , I know that in most cases this unconscious had been hiding the real roots of my own deep deep pain of sorrow, the roots showed themselves by leaving sorrow alone, me is defeated...so to actually live sorrow, if it is a real doing with no intention but just somehow to leave it alone, is a "realising" factor...something else not there before ,comes into being and start functioning...the analysing system can negate itself when in pain....

If there is another way or other ways I really have nothing against that at all...but it is then possible too that there is nothing else at all to start with..but sorrow...this goes along with k words actually..it seemed quite "easy" for him..

this is what I know for me.....

but the subject is huge...here I stick to an eventual starting of another process by being defeated by sorrow which if let alone by turning on another process is allowing the discovery of what is that pain of life about....another movement has started then , what may come next is not any more in the analyser capacities anyway...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 17 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

max greene wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

. . . I do not see how it would be possible to realize anything at all but only verbal and intellectual sort of ideal, since the analyser (self or whatever name) must have a dam good reason to stop itself..

If there is a reason, a motive, then we are back to the struggle of opposites -- there is this, or I am this, and I want this other, or I want to be something else. All movement from motive is reaction. Reaction is not creative change.

The analytical motive so desire I see here is : "I am fed up with my pain, it must cease"; this is a fact I see in me and others ,whether conscious or not in any living human on earth too as I see-feel it (as usual there must be few exceptions somewhere but not in the main stream).

The surviving process ,the analyser by binary reaction immediately creates an opposite goal : "a sort of absolute happiness up to enlightenment would be great" !! when reality is : that is not a life but a mental misery at the best and so "I" am waiting for the next toy of all sorts whether physical or mental to have some relief from all that, a relief qualified as "happiness"..surrounded by fear,anxiety, frustration etc etc the all shebang of usual personal goodies..this is why utter wealth is a goal for so many, the dream to do all what I want is now THE goal..and it is loaded with a supreme desire for absolute, then you wonder why those guys go even more cuckoo that poor people ,as they know that their position has not changed them deeply when the poor guy still think that it is possible, yet the drug is powerful so the power need more of it...those people have something like 20 000 nuclear nice little bombs at their fingers...and some more than others are trying to go that way...kind of I am desperate ,you will pay for it..all this simply being mental dis-functioning, a bug we have...

up to that level the analyser is still concerned of course, nothing else but a sort of insanity has any reason to happen, we are still inevitably caught in the motive-desires field, so in the thought process; with pain it has a "good" motive-desire, as well as some reason to try to move its "ass".....

it wants the pain felt but unknown to go away somehow, its thinking should do the trick so it really believe..this is basically our usual mental life..caught in that corner leads us to war,business, poverty sadness, nonsense and all usual human goodies by cause-effect chain's reaction ....exactly like an atomic explosion, it is just slower...it is a suicide, suicide always being some attempt to escape from a too heavy pain...

For some being very excessive with themselves, the analyser, had tried all tricks to solve pain of nonsensical life but did not succeed, in fact it is trying to escape from...."itself" but this is here intellectual guess only, such seeing cannot be analytical, the question is how to escape about what it has no clue about, of course nothing works how could it work???? this is going on for millennium...

...and one day all this for one person or many is too much, "my" resistance is now too weak , pain forces the analyser down to its knees if there is a spark of intelligence around, nothing had work and here it is defeated, then it may or not accept its defeat( usually never) and may accept out of no choice having tried all usual tricks to let this pain (it knows nothing about) free to be.

At such precise moment the always arrogant analyser is sort of mentally killed in its own basement by much stronger than itself. The analyser must be very sensitive and fragile-weak to go that way, without sensing the idea of suicide,which by the way is "only" another attempt to escape...kill the body says the analyser that would solve the problem..same idea than "kill them all" or kill the mole at the level of a planet...

If such momentum is real, factual,there is not one single analytical desire leading for a while, for the time the self-freezing of the analyser is on due to the terrible shock to live the fact that it is defeated and useless in this case, it has temporary renounced to its glory quest,refusal, desires, quest and searches....it has been forced to be humble...

For me it is clear that without the help of this catalyst (or an x unknown factor ) that sorrow is ,that there will be nothing else but only analysing...never ending analysing..as least this was and is my own experiment so far..

this is my experience that I try to bring here .

I intentionally do not go after what happens when such thing is happening, yet relief, some goodness and more is there ..weird moments they are.

I purposely focus on that moment where the analyser is defeated and for once do the right thing, in my view and experiences..because in my own life this had been the only triggering event to tame the analyser without searching for it...

sorrow has this great advantage that to solve-escape from it, it is impossible with thinking-analysing, as the pain remains...

etc etc etc

cheers..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 18 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

That is, thought identified with an 'idea' has continuance as the 'I' but a thing that continues is constantly decaying, it knows birth and death. In that sense it continues , but the 'thing' that continues can never renew itself. There is renewal only when there is an 'ending'. Say, for example, that I am worried over a problem which I am trying to solve, and I keep on worrying. What happens ? There is no renewal, is there? The problem continues day after day, week after week, year after year. But when the worrying is ended, there is a renewal, and then the problem has a different significance.

....death as an absolute potential always present is a very "relaxing trick"..in fact death like sorrow and many other right living is producing the same "mental chemical reaction".....I mean, the state of mind where the search for a meaning to a no life is gone...it is not that it is found or not found, such question, and all search as an adult caught in suffering like we all are despite the negation of that fact , is not asked or a subject at all....the end of suffering means the birth of "something else" X...

so death I find that vital to like sorrow is....of course those are not subjects ,as this is what we fear most..bearing in mind that fear means : running away....fear is for me a no word, a poor symbol, an incomplete symbol...

if one starts being conscious that this "no word" fear, hides a running away...then inquiry can start somehow...the word fear is a huge mistake for me..

now about the problem I am trying to solve as in k's example..if the problem is deeply known it will be solved by the very seeing of its roots is what I know, meaning the analyser is not the one which does that..we already are entering here in the missing process competencies, this "world" already has a very different taste than ordinary life caught in thought....what I have observed here too is this : I feel let us say awfully down, to use more words that the usual ones...the analyser is trying to solve that, to get rid of it would be more adequate.

Often the reality was that the analyser always finds many reasons for such state awful of mind, money, work, the neighbours, society, politician, the priest, the left ,the right,death, lack of this, lack of that etc up to name everything it can remember or imagine , then it becomes an activist in some fields or a slave to the master, same energy behind ...the analyser tried to search everywhere but NEVER considered that the problem could be itself...this is an effect of the dividing analytical program, this produces too the so called completion for example, which in fact is a process of elimination directly originated from the analytical capacities...it just does its blind work in all fields including where it should never go..

anyway...what I have observed each time of crisis lived and not escaped, so again the sorrow of it must be left free without any search for anything..this is the immense difficulty of it, what I have observed is this..when the root problem related to the sorrow, the pain the awful state etc is found , not once the analyser had been able to find it, never........... and I stay with that for now..as I have to go.....

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 22 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: So 'insight' may be the new generation of 'intelligent' perceptive instrument.

Well John , for me it had been there from scratch in human being so millennium ago ,we can see remains of it in many cultures all around the world...yet I have not one proof for it, if so that would not be a new instrument but an old instrument...malfunctioning or not functioning at all in the occidental world.. which does not change the way all this functions....

cheers..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 22 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote: Le conflit vient avant tout du fait que le mode de perception du cerveau fasse apparaître une réalité duelle, c'est à dire que le cerveau fait apparaître la réalité d'un sujet qui perçoit un objet. Il n'en est rien, il n'y a ni sujet ni objet. La seule chose que nous considérons comme la réalité n'est qu'une perception erronée et nous la saisissons comme réelle. Le conflit, le déséquilibre démarre ici et il est un support d'attention fondamental.

Salut Richard.. .. oui tout à fait, quand tu dis: le déséquilibre démarre ici et il est un support d'attention fondamental,veux tu dire par là que ce que provoque le déséquilibre et-ou le déséquilibre lui même est un moyen vital pour faire quelque chose, ici tu parles d'attention....si oui pourrais tu développer..si l'envie est là bien sur...je suis intéressé..;) pouet !!

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 22 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

déséquilibre lui même est un moyen vital pour faire quelque chose, ici tu parles d'attention

un support d'attention fondamental dans la mesure où cette vision erronée, ce déséquilibre est là constamment donc il le support majeur pour s'éveiller, et puis de quoi s'éveillerait on? tout ce qui apparaît est un support pour l'éveil, l'insight... faut pas aller chercher ailleurs ce qui est là, juste là, maintenant.

le support se renversera tôt où tard.

merci c'est clair....

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 25 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

max greene wrote: Dan,

It might be that this "other energy" is in the understanding of the limitations and the errors inherent in thinking and thought (the "self.") There is then an abandonment of thinking -- which is the "time" of entropy and becoming.

max

Dan McDermott wrote: It would seem that what is necessary for thought to no longer 'move', control, in this sphere is, as K. said somewhere, for the brain to see its own limitation; that thought can never, being the past, the known, understand the 'unknown', i.e.. That its creation of the 'self', the 'I' for its own security and continuity ultimately gives neither... But how does this take place?

Max and Dan, as far as I understand something, if there is no sorrow, pain, suffering, anxiety, frustration, discontentment and so on, I do not see one single reason why the thinking process is going to change anything at all...2500 years of man's insane history shows that alas, this is a fact..apart from a few exceptions in 2500 years..but look the four noble truth of the buddha, it is about dukkha , so suffering etc and what k said about suffering too...

the thing ,for me, is that in many talks, suffering and so what is unconscious for the analyser are out of the way as it could have been k's state of the brain, but as to other participant they have not solved those problems and the talk goes on as if they dit solve suffering and all that....

Lately , I am not even sure about security and even survival instinct, as you mention security the other dan, because based on the revealing of the analysing program it could well be instead , closer to the origin , the fact that the analyser can only analyse the known...when it meets something unknown, it just can't work, because it analyses the past only, including the 1 micro second past, so this movement when the analyser does to go back to something known instead of staying with the unknown unable to analyse is translated by the analyser as a search for security and survival instinct....well now I think that I have seen that this is false.. does this change much ?

Yes absolutely....if there is no security seeking and survival instinct...we are even more in the error than we may think....

instead of that there is just a proper functioning,and we human do not function properly with at least 80% of the brain gone...

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 25 Jun 2015
Topic: The Doctrine of the 'Moon'

Patricia Hemingway wrote: And - in genuine inquiry - K is not the authority. As he very well understood - there is no authority.

Hello Patricia, just passing by the neighbourhood to say a quick hello cup of tea and sandwiches..

would you agree to say that k was in fact "simply" and as factually as possible telling his life's story in the very depth of it and not some intellectual guesses or whatever else, false...having been in touch for himself with something so unusual and in goodness in his life that he had to speak of it all his life, probably seeing that in that direction lies all non human answers to our petty insane problems ??

no need for an answer, it is more to say hello ...

Nice visiting you..

Bye now ..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 26 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Then this has brought many deep vision about my personal own roots disorder and some global vision which I do not really know about their validity; nevertheless they are in my brain..like there had been somehow unknown creation and movement within the limited even if huge perimeter of matter, creation and movement so no big bang with expansion, like the root of "me" could originally simply be the vital need to differentiate each one so each me as not obviously you, to physically differentiate one with the environment, as well as metaphysically separate each me from the environment in order to factually create the analyser ,which is a vital survival tool..like there is no evolution of species but changes and possibly was included from the very beginning the global intention behind, what the Universe would have a motive? this is not krishnamurtian by the way ..but I know that when k mention motive he only mentions analytical ones..by the way ,change, was the real meaning of the word evolution long ago..then "we" ( leaders of the actual empire) included long into that word a movement from the worse to the better.., behind was an evil plan to intellectually justify all colonisation so wars,killing,staling etc ,because of this argument: look at the universe and our evolution, there is no alternative but to fight each other, to be in competition etc etc

As well as now there is for me this involuntary questioning of security and survival instinct as roots, I am not sure any more that this is so the root...I see something behind that, so as such security and survival instinct are not root subjects...I see the simple functioning of the analyser which cannot analyse the unknown so it cannot live it at all...and instead of understanding all that it does not even try out of laziness and decides that there is a quest for security and a quest for survival at any cost...for me this is not true,but again this argument is so welcome for any power...it cut us from deep truth

Well what is fact is simply always passionate....and amazingly brings some peace with itself....like real history and not the false one we are told is in fact interesting...and a real threat to the gangsters leading the world, the real and factual history of the past 120 years still have to be written...

like I don't see how our possible ancestors, some big apes with so many missing links that it sounds much like a joke of our dear scientist slaves of the powers for money and fame ,so how our alleged ancestors would have anything to see with our insanity, not is it the alleged past where we are supposed to have spend all our time fighting each other which for someone having a bit of clue about food searching, hunting, and producing is just impossible ..cooperation and sharing was necessary the basement of societies long ago..then something got wrong and still is up to now..

when all this insanity for me is just the absence of the other process(es) not turned on which drives us mad insane as we are..

So there are at least in us two totally different processes , one analyses to create means to physically live, this process has a polarity, a duality base, which is extracting the analyser from the present in order for itself to be able to analyse; its field of competences are the means , the tools etc,

the other one is not separated from the present this on is for anything else but tools, practicality ....it does not function on memories...

both are vital and must function together which they do when both are turned on...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 26 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: and that's where freely speaking forums such as this are showing their utility. At least the deeper issues are 'exposed'. But this is just half of the job since our ages old longing for pleasure and safety is still driving the world. Collaterally it does also generate sorrow, but that's...'tomorrow' and people got quite accustomed with a 'tomorrow' that (hopefully ?) never comes...

Agreed..

there is nothing to be done by one about the world and k may even be much more right than we may think when saying: changing yourself changing the world ....the personal is vital so, but not where and how we have placed it , it is vital only within the global which is above as a force, when today we are conditioned to think that we think that only the personal exists and this personal is what creates the global.."they" have created an inversion of the real ...

A fundamental mistake being that me the self centred one thinks global in the sense the world must be me, when it should never do that at all and stay within its field of competencies by thinking tools for survival and how to do that and nothing else..

etc

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 28 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote:

Dan McDermott wrote:

It is that we are not actually 'authors' of our 'own' thinking. The thinking process goes on (endlessly it seems) but there is 'actually' no 'thinker', no 'me' apart from the process as it rolls along. That is a rather frightening notion in the sense that there is 'no-one' in charge of this outpouring from the brain. But if this is the actual state of affairs and the 'illusion' of me being in control is seen through, it doesn't mean, one will be 'out of control', just that the ordinary perception of 'me at the helm' is false and the 'steering' is actually being directly handled by the brain itself with the powerful illusion of my participation in the process 'added on'?

Yes!

I am translating Richard post for Dan McDermott, he asked me for that.

Hi Dan(the other Dan), good morning, I am sorry but my English is not good enough , then I can't express thing as I would like to, so I keep it in French.

Yes that is exactly what it is about...according to me this is where attention has to be. Perception everything which appears to us, does not appear to anyone in fact.But the brain is organising "what is" ( as it appears to itself) into a subject which perceives an object, a thinker who thinks, an observer who observes( thoughts, sensations etc..)

this is "crystallized" by the mental and is turned into absolute reality..nevertheless this is not a fact, it is only a perception.

This is where "deep understanding" ( insight?meditation?awareness?) is vitally needed in order to realise that anything can be of matter for deep non analytical attention. Like anything which is perceived is subject to a like/dislike conflict,( as it becomes duality for the brain) sorrow which comes from an imbalance generated by the functioning of the brain itself , sorrow inevitably is a mean and a matter for deep attention, because this imbalance of sorrow will be constant as long as it is not perceived as such...as long as this is not deeply realised

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Sun, 28 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Dan McDermott wrote: The thinking process goes on (endlessly it seems) but there is 'actually' no 'thinker', no 'me' apart from the process as it rolls along.

hello the other Dan..

well that seems factual to me.The process itself and its consequences in producing ideas, concepts, and lies as well seems to be all this ,as a sort of one item . This is where i find the understanding of how analysing-thought work , it is about its programming, very.....handy, for me such understanding through revealing in flashes has started involuntarily when I started again to let sorrow be itself so not interfering somehow differently each time..

Dan McDermott wrote: That is a rather frightening notion in the sense that there is 'no-one' in charge of this outpouring from the brain. But if this is the actual state of affairs and the 'illusion' of me being in control is seen through, it doesn't mean, one will be 'out of control', just that the ordinary perception of 'me at the helm' is false and the 'steering' is actually being directly handled by the brain itself with the powerful illusion of my participation in the process 'added on'? Does that make sense?

well there is a program which does that and yes even though I may know that, I still appear to my own eyes to be a me, with his history ,success ,pain and the all shebang .

Myself so far have no problem with that "illusion" of I, because I understand that the personal is a reality too, but only when it is embedded in the global yes.

In other terms the thinking process is fine when beside it and as an intelligent global non analytical process, the missing capacities and process we have is turned on..

When this other process is turned off, well this is what we are living so know about the effects days after days..

the problem I see here is when the personal negates the global so itself without knowing it in fact...then it is war within me and in the world..because I have seen deeply that the global , unity , etc is what prevail as an energy on the personal.

In the outer world in the present fight , the neocons and all friends all over the world, intellectually deny the global so the collective as vitally being the prime energy behind all what is , which is linking and above everything . In doing so they negate the other process to be a reality,and just keep thought as the only supreme tool mankind has....it is then the negation of the right to everything to be what it is and the submission to a sort of superior violent order, the problem is here that seen that way most people on earth are then some sort of neocons too without being aware of it.. Our global state of the brain mind gas created such insanity...me me me dos not cooperate it uses things so people for gaining anything...again this is where the knowledge of how the analyser works is huge...because all becomes clear...why this ,why that is understood ...

For me my vision of all that says that without the collective as the basement there would be no personal at all .the neocons affirm that it is the personal fight multiplied by X billion who creates a form of global "what is", of course in that case this personal global what is is lead by them, that is the main point!!

....but one single brain for me works exactly that way too...on one hand it negates the global, me me me seems the only concern, then when it comes to practicalities of life , me me me is not capable to survive without the global as a collective and would not even be born anyway; and if allowed me me me is using the global it is negating to steal it, to profit of what is done together...this is where competition was invented, as it does not exist..again without knowing enough of the analyser program this cannot be understood deep enough in order to produce some awakening to what is factual and what is not...this is where I go along with what Richard is saying :

-this is "crystallized" by the mental and is turned into absolute reality..nevertheless this is not a fact, it is only a perception.

So yes it seems to make sense for me...

but is it a trigger of some sort or just more intellectual stuff ???

For me what has come first was living sorrow,so leaving sorrow alone...then things start to happen... I just had no choice ..................

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 29 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote: Ce qu il faut comprendre derrière tout ça, c'est le fait que c'est au travers du mouvement des 5 sens et du mental qu'apparaît le sentiment d'un témoin, d'un pilote, d'un observateur... c'est à dire que la cognition de chaque informations/mouvements devient elle même l'objet du mental qui cristallisera une notion, la notion du témoin, agent etc...

C'est donc de ce fait que, comme tout ce qui apparaît, apparaît par le biais des 5 sens et du mental, que tout est support pour l'attention, la méditation... ce qui permet de faire surgir, d'apercevoir l'évidence du fait que tout est perception y compris le sentiment, la sensation de témoin, de pilote.

Salut rirrou!!

le témoin dans le programme est le moment de la décision finale oui/non me semble t' il. K appelle cela le censeur,celui qui dit oui/non..il est ainsi tout naturellement un élément du programme pensée...celui qui finalise toute l'analyse...finalement il semble donc logique que ce soit la partie du programme qui a le dernier rôle qui joue aussi le rôle de "je", qui quelque part confirme qui dirige l'analyse ..il y a en quelque sorte réellement une sorte de "je" décisionnaire final donc chef dans ce programme d'analyse ou pensée..

Et comme disait Saint Coluche, ce chef il veut donner son avis sur tout, mais il veut surtout donner son avis, tout le temps..

Pour la méditation je ne sais pas, je n' ai jamais pratiqué cela comme je l'ai dit à John....vous pourriez peut etre développer cela ,car si je ne saisis pas vraiment ce que c'est , ce qui est le cas, pour d'autres qui lisent cela va etre pareil et limiter le dialogue en fait..

bises.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 29 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Dan McDermott wrote: And thanks to you, Dan and Richard for the comments.

no worries..;-)

Dan McDermott wrote: First reactions are "oh shut up and let me just be quiet!" But then the question arises: who is it that wants this 'shutting up'? What is the resistance to this thinking (interruption),i.e? And then it's seen that the resistance is simply more thought and motivated by the 'desire' to 'be quiet'(to be something other than what one is). It also seemed that without 'thinking', 'I' don't exist! (the 'I' IS thought) just the sights and the sounds do.

Well the other Dan, what I know by experiment, and how surprisingly ,again or one more time it is linked to properly living sorrow-pain-frustration etc and not analytically rejecting it (which is impossible anyway) but being defeated by it, smashed by it etc, well I discovered for myself that when living sorrow just because I am defeated, and so expect nothing for some time, then the the bla bla bla keeps going on but surprisingly something makes that it goes on but for once without doing anything about it , I do not listen to it...

Then here too something unusual may or will happen....but more words right there is no useful right now....

So if I am not imbalanced enough, only thinking will prevail, yet playing a non analyser...in what I know..John says that there is another way, not the hard way...with mediation, but this is something I do not know about for myself..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 29 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

sans la conclusion finale j'aime ou je n'aime pas, tout semble différent...

Oui déjà, tout semble, tout est différent et pourtant... il y a encore la base de l'émergence d'un témoin (illusoire), qui, par la suite, évaluera...

je reviens en arrière sur l'observation de ce qu'il reste des moments étranges profond ou le cerveau semble fonctionner à plein, il n'y a plus d'avis, oui, non, je ne sais pas ou neutre, il y a cependant quelque chose d'autre à la place de cela, une sorte de contact intense et beau non lié à un avis car tout est alors profondément intéressant,si si, ;-) qui donne une totale béatitude ,une totale satisfaction dans le sens ou je ne cherche rien de plus, tout se passe tout seul........encore une truc de fainéant probablement anti neocons.. :-))

désolé pour les mots aujourd'hui tous tombés en désuétude voir pire, genre totalement niais...

ce dont je parle est l'absence de ce témoin donc..etc qui fut une réalité profonde...et qui de temps en temps est redevenu une réalité relative seulement ,qui est déjà un élément qui change la souffrance..car elle peut etre attaquée à la racine..relative, dans mon cas pas à la racine absolue originelle si cela est possible, ce que je ne sais pas..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 29 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villar wrote: Et oui, mais ça c'est une conséquence... la conséquence d'un arrêt du mental lié à une détente, un état "d'acceptation"...

Difficile pour moi d’être précis là dessus,d'abord parce que ça va trop vite, ensuite il y a un instant ou il n'y a pas de béatitude mais dans les cas qui me concernent il y a effectivement une humeur d'un glauque plus que triste et oui le fait de le vivre point barre sans motif autre que dire OK je le vis..et tout à coup c'est là, mais dans ce que je connais "je" le vois arriver pendant 2 à 3 secondes jusqu'à cette sorte d’explosion connexion étrange qui prends le relais de la pensée ordinaire ,mais cependant ceci ne fut jamais vécue comme une surprise en quoi que ce soit, ni ne contient aucune peur....ni souffrance, ni avis j'aime ou pas etc ce qui défit ma logique analytique dans le sens je ne l'explique pas cet effet de non surprise, car on entre dans l'impensable , le non connu et pourtant de surprise il n'y a pas du tout....comme si ?????

Et ma présence ici, mais aussi bien ma quête personnelle donc avec au départ un motif conscient et volontaire, mais aussi dans un sens relié à cette démence planétaire dont il faudra bien se guérir un jours, est d'essayer de voir jusqu’à où je peux,donc en tant que "moi je" qui pense, déjà plus lucide que si rien d'extra ordinaire ne s'était passé , essayer de voir jusqu’où je peux faire quelque chose de concret pour que se brise la souffrance + ou - bien vécue d'une vie "analytique" ...faite de peur de frustrations,de mécontentement,de douleur, de pétage de plomb ,de névroses etc etc

ceci implique d'aller jusqu' au bout de ce que la pensée peut faire comme conneries....et éventuellement alors des fois la fermer " sa grande gueule"..:-)) parce que elle aura vu parce que vécu le lien direct souffrance = moi...par le biais de la souffrance laissée intouchable et donc non touchée par la pensée..ce qui déclenche.

tout ceci se doit d'exclure tout projet en vivant la souffrance, pour mi y compris de la résoudre, il y a un moment vital ou je ne fais rien de la sorte..là les choses se mettent en place...

bien sur ici il n'est que question d’essayer de décrire ce qui se passe en quelques secondes .

donc ce moi c'est quoi? est alors une bonne question..à laquelle je ne cherche pas de réponses...

Je ne fais plus confiances à des réponses intellectuelles non basées sur des faits, questions et réponses intello pures qui vont bien sur quand meme venir venir car c'est en mode automatique ...

mais pour une raison que je ne cherche pas à comprendre ,il semble que deux processus arrivent alors à + ou - fonctionner ensemble; meme en dehors de la présence de cette énergie étrange qui elle renvoie la pensée aux calendes Grecques, là ou elle est dans son domaine ..

à la cuisine pour faire des gâteaux...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Mon, 29 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote: et puis ça voudrait dire que cet état originel ne peut être généré autrement alors que si bien sûr.

de quoi parles tu richard ? ;-) ceci est bien mystérieux..

schuss...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 30 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote:

richard villlar wrote:

et puis ça voudrait dire que cet état originel ne peut être généré autrement alors que si bien sûr.

paul daniel wrote:

de quoi parles tu richard?

et bien qu'il ne faut pas faire de lien direct entre sorrow (d'une certaine intensité), et cet état, mais plutôt avec l'arrêt du mental/détente/acceptation/attention.

salut Richard...

pour moi le lien est ce qui "peut" se passer,car l'action interne mentale de sorrow qui amène l'unité là ou il y avait dualité sinon il ne peut ni disparaître, ni se résoudre,ni etre compris en profondeur; je dis "peut" car tout est si rapide que de décomposer le moment me semble impossible quand ça se produit,de plus justement à ce moment ou je vis sorrow, la pensée la ferme, donc cela devient affaire d'analyse ultérieure avec à nouveau une possibilité réelle d'erreur..

l'action de sorrow, au début certes avec un sorrow d'une intensité élevée peut très bien aussi se passer avec un sorrow tout "jeune" , à peine né, à peine perceptible que l'on sait à présent reconnaître comme tel..dans une quasi instantanéité est ce que je vois se produire de + en +..

Ciao !!

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 30 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote: Salut dan,

Tu sais oooh combien je comprends ce dont tu parles... je tenais à évoquer le fait que le lien direct est l'arrêt du mental. Ce dont tu parles (sans le vouloir/savoir?) traite de la méditation sur le support qu'est sorrow et c'est très important...

non je ne savais pas cela à propos de méditation ,alors je fais cela depuis l'age de environ 10 ans...ah mon dieu mon dieu :-))......un peu comme Mr Jourdain et nous tous faisons de la prose sans le savoir...

pour moi meme cet élément est à la fois destructeur si il est fuit ce qui ne se passe jamais en réalité car au mieux on peut juste le cacher et est a la fois aussi un élément "constructeur" si laissé tranquille, je te l'accorde bien sur qu'il est très important dans sa spécificité...

ce qui en soi n'est bien sur pas du tout une découverte...par contre lorsque une personne va dans cette direction,cela devient alors une découverte pour cette personne..

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Tue, 30 Jun 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

richard villlar wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

pour moi meme cet élément est à la fois destructeur si il est fuit

Oui... voilà, on en revient à "tout est support", tout ce qui apparaît...

Richard ce serait bien pour la compréhension que tu développes un peu plus ce que tu dis ici..

car les mots "tout est support" parlent peu...

Mère scie.......

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 01 Jul 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

Salut Richard

c'est plus clair oui... Dans ce que je connais si j’ôte le fait du malaise de vivre, alors il n'y a plus une seule raison de se bouger le cul d'une manière ou d'une autre...par contre il peut y avoir plein de désirs d'essayer d’atteindre un supposé état fantastique...LE BONHEUR ABSOLU...quête de bonheur absolu qui pour moi deja signifie que le ver est dans le fruit..la quête du bonheur n'est elle pas delà la fuite de son supposé malheur ? Serais né avec en moi ce malaise qui le fait encore quand je suis assez jeune ? Mais qui va aller en s'amplifiant...

mais tout cela tourne en rond pour moi...l'analyse est vraiment gonflante sauf bien sur sauf où se trouve son domaine et où sa compétence est utile..

soit je fuis-ignore le malaise et cela donne notre monde violent ,criminel et en en guerre

soit je ne fuis pas...

qu'est ce qui va faire que je ne fuis plus ? pourquoi faire cela ?

Si le malaise atteint des proportions trop imposantes par rapport à ma propre résistance, je n'aurais plus le choix ou alors le suicide..lent ou rapide..

il y a ici un élément intéressant qui est la "fragilité " personnelle devant cette énormité démente qu'est devenu la vie humaine..cet élément est majeur et rarement évoqué...voir jamais en fait..

malaise de vivre, fragilité sont des éléments de base pour aller vers l'extra- ordinaire...sans vraiment le savoir..car cela n'est que un effet secondaire d'autre chose bien sur...

là pour moi on a une base fragile ,solide...

rien n'est encore arrivé dans le chemin de la compréhension mais des éléments serieux sont là..fragilisé par ce non sens ,par la violence, la démence, et ce malaise indicible que "je" ressens...le cocktail explosif est là.. il ouvre sur deux chemin...celui que l'on voit tous les jours partout qui est un suicide collectif lent comme le dit K, ou autre chose...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 01 Jul 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: Krishnamurti: Perfectly right. Let us call them the 'old' and the 'new' brain. The 'old' brain has, through centuries, collected all kinds of memories, registered every experience and it will function ( mechanistically?) on that level all the time. It has its continuity in time. If it has no continuity, then it becomes neurotic, schizophrenic, imbalanced. Now that is the old brain with all its stored-up (refreshed and recycled?) memories. However, such ( self produced mental ?) 'continuity' can never find anything new, because (inwardly) only when something ends, that there is something new.

John Raica wrote: Krishnamurti: Let us get this clear. You ask me a question. The old brain responds according to its knowledge; if the old brain has no knowledge, no information, there is a (silent?) interval between the question and answer. In that ( silent interval of?) no- knowing, there is a state in which time does not exist. The moment I know (all the answers ?) , that 'knowing' (consciousness ) is ( a psycho-process of?) time.

Dan: it seems, John, that continuity is just the field where the old brain or analysing expands its capacities, I built a shelter with a mission by set up: it should last, there is no end as a goal, as an aim , a purpose, but RELATIVE continuity as a goal by set up, by programming..it is not capable to deal with the present, not its job, this continuity field is embedded within its set up...the analyser could say if aware of that: continuity of what I want, I must do is in the future,I have to give it some continuity when possible , this is my task for survival.

As such in fact so far it is not a big deal....yet!!

Then nothing else enters into ones life, continuity from relative becomes an absolute as it is only what "I" can see, because the analyser has no global intelligence....it has the eye fixed on the steering wheel and see nothing else but the steering wheel ...

then troubles have started .under various form...this time I do not mention the cursed words for once

5000 years later no deep problems are solved on the contrary...the machine took it over entirely, of course it is the only part of the brain at work, the old brain so, the animal brain, more the one of a jellyfish than anything else :-))

science is trying to be the new religion, the madness is so thick that it can be touched now; sadly it is even more empty than others false religion, true religion has k mentioned in the original meaning of religion,is to be linked, to be connected.....

again, here it is about the known and the unknown...when will the analyser learn that with what is unknown it is entirely useless ?

We really need the missing process now is not it ?

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Wed, 01 Jul 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: . So the 'observer' or 'analyser' or thinker' mode is just an 'intelligent' platform of psychological protection; And we have all become so good at doing it (sauf...les 'simples d'esprit') that we lost the awareness or the logical reason for doing it. No matter that's the latest computer doctor or the poorest peasant, we're all...expert thinkers- or rather, lost the basic awareness of what we are doing inwardly.

Agreed John....yet the peasant has more relation left with Nature as a mean to survive concretely so with real work than the computer doctor, in a world of peasant we survive, in a world of computer doctors only we do not..that is a considerable difference..yet the peasant is too an expert thinker like all of us but is clearly more directly practical, the field of thought..

That would be weird not to be expert thinkers as it is our only field of activity apart from exceptions from time to time or more like exceptions within the exceptions..to eventually be an exception is not having a status of "good" opposite to the "bad" but it is just factual for me here, as well as that some like k or others who can be exceptions to this common rule of all of us being only expert thinkers.

I agree that we have lost, if we ever had it ( I sense such time had been), the basic awareness of what we are inwardly doing..

John Raica wrote: As soon as we start 'thinking' we are already rolling on the magic carpet of words and cultural images. So anything we discover, analyse, or philosophise is only relative to a certain cultural background (whatever rolling carpet you're on) .

Somehow we remain childlike when an adult ,by adult I mean a potentially fully physically developed brain mind..which keeps behaving as practically a baby...not even a child quite often, so as you say without a basic awareness of what we are inwardly doing.

after all the few ones leading the word they just want all the toys and things of the others like in a kindergarten..

John Raica wrote: Now, no matter how you'd like to call the reverse attitude of returning to the sources of all this process - personally I'll call it an act of responsible awareness or the self-awareness level of meditation, - and at this point in time no 'school' or 'foundation' ( no matter of what denomination) is able to help us in doing it- this 'responsible awareness' action has to start from within ourselves

Well I don't particularly call it with a fixed expression, not yet anyway.

Well as it seems that no school can help about such " act of responsible awareness", this has already totally and radically changed the basement to approach the so called teaching and education. Both global and personal matter but we have put a personal where there is none at all..this me at war with others is just a sort of fantasy is not it..

if so we have no choice but to function rightly as if not doing so, the malfunctioning produces pain and suffering as well as fear and nonsense and much more like conflict so business so war etc etc etc inside so outside as a projection of the state of the inside..

If I really try to be personal only as today's main propaganda suggests ( well no one can force anyone to blindly believe so buy it ), it suggests too that there is no alternative to it and that the conflict-imaginary fight through permanent competition between all personal "me" is going to give a global ,but that there is no global at all as such ....

All this is pure BS, to give people some believes,something to watch and analyse, some proof, etc that what is happening is natural, it is the way it is because that is the way it is....this is empty of anything real but words..

When one is lost as most are, you may take it ...as it contains a goal in the future for the analyser so is in its field of competencies , a great goal that you may reach, and it will be heaven for you..it is exactly the way false religion function, tomorrow you'll be fine..OK today is messy and hell but believe me tomorrow bear that in mind that all will be fine...demain on rase gratis...

at the end of the day the personal matters within the global and vice versa..is one item it seems ? Only the analyser always dividing by need in order to focus on one part so having no set up capacity for the global makes such "false" qualitative approach which becomes absolute statement, a statement which as such has no reality, bit as only some eventual and potential analytical use??... when both are in fact interlocked somehow.

At he end of the day the analyser, we , try keep the personal only where there is an interlinked situation only....

This of course suggest, between the lines, a missing capacity for the global...as if not there would be no way out of that mess..but there is as we know it.

Recalling some past moments beyond the personal isolation it seems that there is no one in charge at all in moments of bliss, "all" seems to function on its own or rather according to something else but me which is in charge....that would be one of the closest saying I can now come across to mention to others such time with the bliss of the Origin or of the Universe or of Mother Nature or whatever word suits one here ...

well..........................!!!

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 02 Jul 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote:

paul daniel wrote:

I agree that we have lost, if we ever had it ( I sense such time had been), the basic awareness of what we are inwardly doing..

Hard to say, Dan, soon I'll start 'flash-posting'( that means, on a daily basis) some excerpts from Mrs Cannon's sessions- it would seem that at a certain level of our consciousness we never forget anything, while on the conscious levels there is a constant influx of new inputs which are replacing the old ones.

this seems right to me John...

John Raica wrote: And just a small insight as to what I call an inner space of 'meditation'- it's like daily cultivating one's innermost garden- obviously no one will be doing it for you, and there is a constant tendency of 'weeds' accumulating. On a superficial level, it would seem that Mr K is against any such 'cultivation' (as a time binding endeavour) , but in terms of living our common daily existence in a rather ( especially culturally ) polluted environment, it may be an act of sanity and intelligence to try to clean it up un a daily basis- rather than when walking in the forest or driving a luxury 'motor car'...

Can you explain or expand a bit more with one or to example ,that I understand what you precisely mean..thanks.

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Thu, 02 Jul 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: I'll just try a few pointers: firstly, we are all inheriting a 'materialistically oriented' consciousness with all its personal and collective content. I would call it 'conscience temporelle' and for most people that's less or more everything there is. Within the 'known' space of this consciousness we can think, act, create new technologies, ruthlessly compete, go to holidays, and so on. It is a relatively 'safe' place ( although some cultures do often collide)

Yes, but it is not safe, because we are all forced with or without acceptance to compete,the only safety is to be together which mankind refuses or is forced to not go into...so there is a sense of something which looks like a sort of safety by accumulation yes, but there is none deeply is my feeling ....everyone worries a lot..about this or about that....

it goes more deeply but I won't go into it now.

John Raica wrote: Now for some people this 'known' space is all they'll ever need, while for others it may feel like the perfect inner prison- from where the sorrow, frustration, loneliness, etc. In fact the space of the known has everything in it...except freedom, love and true creativity

The known is a sort of tool, it contains nothing blissful but self rewards to reach, in fact apart techniques,memories to analyse; motives and things like that...it is empty....exactly like my lawnmower is...yet it has a plus which is this rewards motives which are there to make it work, my lawnmower has none of that..this is why desire is so important to see deeply insightfully,because here we have the core why I analyse...

John Raica wrote: So, as these are not absolute priorities for our society as a whole- we'll have to consider for ourselves an inner space that is free of the known ( as there are a lot of 'smoke free' spaces in most coffee shops and restaurants) And that was my point, that since nobody can do this for us, we'll have to create it for ourselves.

I understand yes...

John Raica wrote: Now, for people who are safely installed within this shared 'known' space- with all its rewards and servitudes the subject may seem optional, fictitious, unproductive, since a multitude of 'gurus' and 'psycho'-specialists are already making a living out of the benefits of transcending our 'normal' condition.

indeed.

John Raica wrote: So again, speaking only for myself, creating and keeping clean this inner space of 'meditation' is an absolute responsibility towards my heritage of an intelligent consciousness. And again, this thing is rather 'binary': you see and do it or you don't..

Now i got it John, this is now out of the way,with the mention understood!

thanks...

Forum: Experimenter's Corner Fri, 03 Jul 2015
Topic: Pages from the Book of Life

John Raica wrote: They must just have faith and just trust.

well John, I really am puzzled by all that...

I sometimes wonder which part of the brain can be hypnotized...after all are not we all hypnotised by the actual society without knowing it..

when I see the word faith, I just let go...

sorry, but if you bring some more here, I will read out of curiosity, as I still kept that since early years..

so in any case thanks for this ..