Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Wim Opdam's Forum Activity | 2265 posts in 4 forums

Forum: Dialogue Sun, 15 Feb 2015
Topic: No one got it or did they?

No one will ever get it !!!! So why so much pondering over? This is a haiku which may give some light on the subject:

When "I" see the light I don't see anything Light is blinding me.

Forum: Dialogue Mon, 16 Feb 2015
Topic: No one got it or did they?

That’s also the reason why the title: “Lives in the shadow of Krishnamurti” give some light and doubts on the content of it. If you are a light from and for yourself where is the shadow ?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Feb 2015
Topic: For the thinker only thinkers exist

" The thinker can only see other thinkers around it. I cannot see see anything else"

I do.

I see the dust he/she is thinking of, or the fact he is enquiring, investigating and so the thinker is not important at all it is what and how he/she is thinking off is of interest.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 17 Feb 2015
Topic: For the thinker only thinkers exist

Mina Martini: “The thinker can only see other thinkers around it.”

Mina: Your response made it clear that I responded only from my experience on your personal sentence: “ I cannot see anything else”. In focusing on the above sentence and the given information that you will inquire the statement freely , without knowing and doing it seriously. A whole different approach is needed. We cannot refer to what is already written in this forum or anywhere else of what or who the thinker is and what or if he is seeing something or nothing around “IT”.

There was a guy who once said that: “ the answer lies within the question” and also "the speaker is not important but what he is saying is" we both know that this was Krishnamurti.

If putting that statement to the test: We have to establish what we are talking about.

What is the thinker? Is that someone who’s is thinking or someone who’s is thinking that he’s thinking or someone who is searching in his harddrive/brain or memory for similarities? The same for “can only see” there is this question of “ can only” which seem to be an limitation and this contradict with free and fress. And “see” is in it’s semantic form static not vibrant and could not describe something which is movement. And last but not least: What about “ IT” ? Do you mean the Truth, or mine truth or your truth or our truth or something totally different, but different from what? And also “around” seems to point to something apart from a center. At thus far we did not touched the statement in itself, so it cannot be polluted with our presuppositions whe’re only examine the question with the tools we gathered in the past.

If it’s clear what the components of the statement and its compounds are there is this mysterious seeing is coming in action we are seeing something is missing.

Than memory add something in like: The whole is more than the sum of its parts. Still this doesn’t polluted the statement or the inquiry does it? When seeing the whole the parts disappear they are still there somewhere but not as parts. So there isn’t an “I” seeing a thinker or “IT” or something around. This seeing is not your or mine seeing “ it’s seeing.”

It is not a necessity that all the components are in the right mood or position. Sometimes a question can’t be answered in words. You have to tell a story around it.

For example this Koan Krishnamurti once referred to : “ How sounds the applause of an one armed man ?”

When I pondered this over I built a story around it, like this:

There was a great Zenmaster who every day give for one hour answers to peoples questions. But once a month he put one question to the gathered people. Thousands of people came to him and one day he asked them: “How sounds the applause of an one armed man ?” The first 5 minutes a lot of answers came but on every answer he knocked his head “NO.” The people fear to answer anymore became very, very quit for the rest of the hour, all were waiting till the end, curious for his answer. At the end of the hour the Zenmaster stood op and apologized to his audience by saying: “ Thank you for answering my question, I didn’t realized so many people already knew the answer.”

By rereading it I realized that that was what Krishnamurti was doing. Giving us food for thinking, investigating by the questions and we are all longing for answers.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 18 Feb 2015
Topic: For the thinker only thinkers exist

Mina Martini, “A morning cloud told me all this. :-)” (another forum)

I didn’t realize that I was talking aloud in my “I”cloud ;) I only hope I did’t block the sunshine.

In talking metaphorical about the statement in this forum we also may avoid knowledge and is speaking metaphorical about Truth not also a metaphor for: “ I don’t know, I don’t have the whole picture completely? ” This is another completely different approach to what’s going around in this and the other forums.

So right here is a very short story:

I was sitting on my database looking over the river of reality. In the sky where little “I”clouds driving by. The light of the sun enlightens a laboratory floating on the water, where avatars were investigating one piece of a picture. “CECI N'EST PAS UNE PIPE “ ( MARGRITTE). So they concluded, based on their knowledge thus far, that the whole picture was not about a pipe. A lot of wires from the picture were driving on the water and bricks out of their wall (nice song by the way) of believers with knowledge came out of nowhere ( or is it Knowhere?) with pieces of their fingerprint of who they really are disappearing in the river of reality. Somewhere in my database was the answer but the index was broken and all the pieces of evidence were spread all over the place. Bit by bit I offered them the remains of the content of my database for as far I could reach them. I had a vague understanding of the picture because of it’s universally shining from all their pieces like a holographic picture. (David Bohm). As soon as I took a dive into the river all the parts combined with the database showed in a flash the whole picture to all the people and avatars who were looking, even to the “I”clouds who didn’t had no idea at all about the investigation and at the same time all of those looking were surprised and transformed in the same flash. For the not looking avatars and people all stayed the same. At the end or beginning there was only Truth displaying itself in those looking and no one can ever hold it. It’s non material !!!

Is it now real to say that for the thinker/thought those who were looking stay on beleavers or people with knowledge not seeing there transformation ? They don't disappaer do they?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 19 Feb 2015
Topic: For the thinker only thinkers exist

Wim: “I didn’t realize that I was talking aloud in my “I”cloud ;) I only hope I did’t block the sunshine.”

Sorry, too much “I” in the heavenly sphere there.

Mina: Can we look into it, together, to see together whether it holds water or not? Wim: Oh Dear, oh Dear, There’s a hole in my pocket ;)

It’s a never ending story, you know, so we have to be very careful not too much influence from the real world.

If IT’s still a land without any path , it’s limitless then IT has no boundaries , so even in the metaphorical language Truth has its ground.

It is assumed that One picture can tell us more than thousands of words. A film is a construction of countless pictures and one Life is so much more than countless movies, and there are, has been and will be countless lives.

We cann’t put all that is in one story, can we?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 23 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

How can one agree and disagree on this at the same time?

“ Nothing has changed, insight NOW is changing EVERYTHING forever ”.

This cryptic description explained would create a tsunami of words and everybody had their own interpretation on ‘IT’. So how to begin? Words like: ‘In the beginning’ will immediately suggest a new religion. Others words like: ‘TRUTH is a pathless land ’ and/or ‘ I’m not who you think I’m’ will immediately suggest ‘Oh, a K. copy cat’. And still words are the only thing we have along with living our lives.

So using a total different approach with a poem like description about what’s going on would still be partly, because of it’s form in a poem. But even then we could say ‘Truth’ can’t be expressed, communicated in one story or poem, even one live seems too short, looking to Krishnamurti. He spend more than 60 years doing it and I’m already at that age so knowing that I’ll fail I can’t do anything else. But you have to take into account all the traces of my existence already left behind. (Profile, interview and other postings)

Once sitting on the banks along a river, under a clear cloudless sky looking on the water, seeing the sun playing with the water or may be the water is playing with the sun, I don’t know, something is catching the eyes. Those twinkling’s stars trying to tell me everything. Zooming “I” disappearing in one of those stars and insight gives me everything.

My son’s voice awakenings me: “Dad, what was that song mum likes to hear?” “I did it my way from Frank Sinatra” I said, thinking about a song from Katie Melua about, no not about this 6 billion people, that was also a nice ending line, that other song, what were the words ? something like peace by peace I let you go of you, yes that’s it. Tears rolling over my skin and he asked,: “Are you sad, now we’ve lost everything? “No, we still have each other, It’s nothing, I was remembering something else.”

It’s still a beautiful world, isn’t it?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 23 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

Here i'm back again ( I warned you it's a tsunami !!!).

It seems to me in this whole forum something is missing. I don’t know what or who or why? Is it that I have to build knowledge or skill or vocabulary or is it lack of passion ? I still have the passion to find out initiated by other clear minds, or is that something I did already have in my genes? Or Is it that this forum is a hiding place for reality, talking about nothing, meaning everything? Or is it the other way around talking about everything meaning nothing.? It can also be something Totally different. A lot of the avatars are behind a drawing and even if there is a photo, are they for real? Even in the text you find evidence of aliases or are this aliens?

I’m lost here, it’s like puppets on wireless string with this internet, “I”clouds, smartphones and what all. The tables of stones from Mozes are transformed in tablets from apple, sony or samsung or whatever. Okay they are giving information in motion, but what’s the essence ? So the words are going round and round, like the world and the universes. There’s nothing to hold on. It’s like sitting in the cave of plato, but even the shadow’s are gone there without the light blocked from all this information from the “I”clouds. What for heaven sake are we doing? Am I crazy or Am I living in a world full of lunatics?

Or is this just seeing with a clear mind?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 23 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

there once was a lunatic fishing in a empty bucket a professor came by, his therapist asking: " And are you catching something ?

' You're crazy ' I said ' in an empty bucket ? There is even a WHOLE in it !!!'

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 23 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

Responding McDermott: “ Why waiting, for what ? There’s nothing to waiting for !! “

For me playing with the 26 letters from the alphabet, together with the reading signs and space is altogether fun.

The space between the lines and behind the created words is very special.

This contains insight into meaning depending on interpretation from the reader/writer using thought, thinking and or focus.

For example: Take the letters in this sequence “ a, l, o, n, e “ you create the word “ alone “, Which is an abstract/metaphor for something different by each interpretation depending on insight and/or thought. ( Korsybski/Krishnamurti/David Bohm and may be others) Take a break in the middle ( space) and put the letter ‘l’ in to balance the two words, then there are two words, which are abstracts/metaphors something etc. etc ( see line before ). Put those three words on one line with an equal sine and you get:

Alone = All One.

The combination/structure seems ridicules, but have meaning for some of us by our interpretation etc.

So the content of the meaning seems to point to something or nothing.

Insight in the nothing/something will tell you everything. You may negate this, call it rubbish or seeing ‘IT’.

So what have I written: Nothing or Something ?

A conclusion creates THOUGHT, which is something, so NOTHING contains TRUTH.

Pure Logic, or not ?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 23 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

On Randall Merrymann suggestion: ' I would suggest further that there is no such thing as "K's teaching".'

Again You're right and wrong. For those without " Insight ", "K's teaching" still exist and can look like real and alive. Feeding there interpretation with thought.

'INSIGHT ' however distroys identity also that from 'K' and his teachings, otherwise it can't be NEW/NOW.

I've just seen ' Beautifull Mind '. According to my wife we saw before, I didn't remember one single shot or dialogue, but NOW I remember dialogues at the end of the film, who could say us something about Real and Fiction in the mind.

Again depending on interpretation etc etc

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 24 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

This morning I woke up and had only one to do list:

  1. Create a spaceline between the joke and your reaction in the note about the lunatic. ( I’ve already done that )
  2. Give a very, very short description of the movie.
  3. Describe what you’re seeing NOW
  4. Put your garbage outside because it’s Tuesday the nightman is coming along
  5. Prepare your food for midday.

Point 2 and 3 you’re reading what I’m busy with.

The movie is about a sick man, who didn’t knew and when he accepted his sickness, deals with the problem by negating his imaginative world and lived in reality, knowing his sickness with the help of “LOVE”. ( I hope this is short enough ).

One wonders if the moviemakers read K. or were doing his Teaching. All this worlds seems to have no borderlines. Is this proof of the statement: Truth is a pathless land (worlds) ?

There are still only 26 letters and some space to communicate. I almost forgot to say together with online and databases!!

A lot of differences and similarities and nothing to hold on.

While I’m collecting my paper trail together, this felt out. In putting it on an empty database, it’s save to give it with the night man.

Once I travelled along the borders of the ‘I ‘less land. although I saw the beauty, I could not reach it. although I heard the sound, I could not reach it. although I smelled the flavor, I could not reach it. although I felt the energy, I could not reach it.

I’ve tried everything to pass the border but didn’t succeed. So I wondered if such things were there at all. If there were no borders, what was it that I saw, heard, smelled and felt? What was it that I searched for?

Was I creating, hallucinating, imagining ?

Suddenly the ‘I’ land vanished There was nature, the immense beauty from the sunshine and here colors, from the sound of the birds and the wind, from the smell of wintertime.

And this gentle sense of Being.

I’m almost done with my to do list. The rest of it I have to do offline you see. See you.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 24 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

Sean Hen wrote:

Given the quote above, can I ask you Jean if you think that it is important to show a sense of compassion and consideration for others when we post on this forum? This is a genuine question as I am really not sure if this is something which is valued here or how people feel about this.

A kindly suggestion: read all the posts from me on this database and in the profile. So I don’t have to repeat what is already said. From your posts I saw a question about an experiment and also something about how clear minded you are.

So let put that to the test in a little experiment.

There’s a great difference between creating shit, eating shit and being shit. If you’re creating shit, you have to consume. If you’re eating shit, you’re out of this sane world. If you’re being shit, it doesn’t matter, you’re just being happy, happy with all those and what’s around you.

Now there are people who are laughing, this are the fools Also there are people who gone defend one of us, this are the followers And the rest remains quit, because they are seeing the TRUTH in this.

I can only use words already existing, in dictionaries, title of books or films or their content,this is pointing towards meaning.

Still Love you ;)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 26 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

Hi Sean: you wrote " I'm afraid I have no idea what you are talking about here."

I was addressing this methaporical so don't be afraid to get dirty.

Still working on 2 posts I'll adress soon, but working it out take more time and in the mean time let's shuffle sand over it so no one else get dirty too. There may be a problem though but that will become clear to all of us by reading this coming 2 posts.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 26 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

Hello World, or to be more precise members of this site or to be exactly reader of this message. ( in this way it seems no one is excluded and it’s not personal ).

This is the first of two posts who belongs together but addressing different facets of this whole dialogue or whatever we want to call it.

Let’s get starting. In wanting to explain or discover something we must take the risks in doing the communication of misunderstanding, aren’t we ? If taking a road means someone else has already discovered it and others already used it, it’s clear that it’s not NEW at all.

So going in to the jungle of not knowing we only have the skills we have, let’s assume for the moment that’s observation, intelligent and awareness, the last one as well as for the outside as the insight world. One of my skills is a scientific approach, but in that and all the other skills, I’m also an autodidact, which means learning by observation what and how and why others are doing the things they do.

So let’s look to a die. Depending on our position, we’re seeing one, two or three silks and the others are outsight, knowing the structure of a cube. There are 6 silks on every outside of cube and so we never see the whole at once. Every silk is numbered on a particular way, opposite of every silk is the sum 7. So if one sees one silk we know that the other silk must have the number 6, the other 4 stays unknown. If one sees two silks clearly, we suddenly know 4 of them and only two stays unknown. If one sees three silks clearly, we suddenly know all of them.

And that while that’s the maximum silks we can see.!! So by seeing three silks we can know it all, and all we knew was numbered 1 to 6 and the particular way of numbering by opposites. This numbers are called eyes and represented by dots.

So counting the dots, the eyes tells us something about what we’re not seeing and even if we ‘re seeing the maximum silks, we can know it all by using what we knew and accepting the conditions intelligently. We can’t call that boundaries, can we ?

Now if we bring each skill in one by one we can distinguish their properties. For example: greed will tell us something about egoism, materialism etc. etc. proud will tell us something about vanity, etc. etc. etc.

So it seems that material things can tell us something by looking in the eyes depending on who many silks are seen, knowing we’re not seeing everything. That’s creating thought changing material on another level. (the structure of our brain cells).

If this is a natural law what will happen if we take for example one diamante ? Ore more people seeing ? Ore more material ? Or another material like a dewdrop ?

Putting light on a subject create more thought/skill, despite of shadows. Light on a dew drop create a spectrum of colors and not shades of grey, or Am I telling /seeing something not being Truth here?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 26 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

thanks for the congratulation, you shouldn’t have done that !!

It’s such a nice present you gave me, although we never met and even didn’t knew of your existence, from my silky site you can’t be seen completely, but by my lack of skills by interpretation of the incompleteness of the communication you must be a nice guy, on this silky site it’s like you’re all over the place and have lack of skills and/or thought and/or Intelligence.

If this information is troubling, please remind us that it seems that: We can’t even help ourselves to be who we are, we are what we are and that’s all. I’m sorry to say but I don’t even know how you cuddle your kids out there, so I reckon there’s a lot of stuff between us and maybe even a lack of light. I still don’t know anything. It sounds cryptic, but being in a land without paths and nothing to hold on ‘seeing’ is all we have.

Give mum a hug, even if she don’t know who I’m. I even don’t know if I’m yours or a dad at all, but strangely enough you seem to know me, give me status I don’t know I had or ever will or shall have.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 26 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

Hi Sean, you addressed me:

“ Just to be clear, I have no knowledge of a question about an experiment. I have no knowledge of any posts talking about how clear minded I am. I think you may be confusing me with someone else.”

Still working on the second post I mentioned before, but in trying to find out how things working, while surfing on a tsunami of information within me as well as in the archives took this note for ½ nov 2012. By my lack of one or more skills ( time, formulating or something else ). If it’s really not longer active in your current live, knowingly or not knowingly, my reference isn’t valid at all even its wrongly formulated. But is the metaphor valid or not ? Learning to formulate I’m seeing we better skip the s…. word and replace it for “ dots, something unknown “.

Also the word “too” is one word to much. Haven’t we both learned something here ?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 27 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

Dear Patricia: You wrote:

“Is it too much to wish that those who desire to spout nonsense on the forum would stick to the threads that they themselves start to display that nonsense? “.

No, it’s not too much to wish for and I even don’t know if it also was pointed at me. I’ll promise you NOW that after my next post I’ll never ever shall bother you again. There seems to be no translation on internet or wherever from the language used by TRUTH, Politness, Shame or whatever we will call it to our own language. So we all are in the dark on this and thank there’s no copy right stickled on it whoever will discover it, otherwise the devil whatever he is got away with it.

I don’t know if this seems nonsense to you, but we all are what we are and we can’t even help ourselves because ‘IT’ seems to be an illusion to me. I’m still grateful for the seeing I discovered in myself.

My and all the others only skills are: ‘words’, ‘language’ and ‘storytelling’ together with some shortcoming knowledge of structure (semantics) and matter.

I kindly request you to take notice of my last post on this site and then it’s out and over for me.

previsously thanks wim

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 27 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

“ Last post “ not only in Belgium these words still mean something after 100 years and a very disastrous period of mankind.

Sadly enough there are members of the human kind who don’t want to learn from our history and still stay Humans with the appearance of barbarians behaving like animals or worse. From this nameless state without borders seeing all this one would like to help, being helpless. Although ?

For those who’re serious, but not too much, who’re searching but not too much, who are playful, but not too much, who are what they are and have a presumption there’s something missing, this last post.

Knowingly this is incomplete and partly wrong and because of the shortcoming of language even not always precise formulated among other shortcomings.

Also knowingly that there is a saying in all the other states: ( legal and or police state ): “ All what you say can and will used against you: “ This message: “ Leave out the ‘can and will’ change it to ‘shall’ and proof that it’s wrong to say what’s been said in post # ?? It’s impossible to repeat it NOW because it’s already forgotten after changed by living, seeing and observing and changing the skills. Knowingly this is incomplete and partly wrong.

It’s sad to have to say and or write ‘IT’ !! But also live is still beautiful, isn’t it Mina ?

Why this interview ? Do you have to promote something or to defend ? It’s very, very strange you know!! What kind of question is this? You begged me for more than 40 years for an answer I can’t give and NOW knowing the answer you begin again. Some ‘PEACE’ of course!

For the rest of all this questions: It’s neither. On this way in this form duality is more or less excluded. Also one avoid to be too personal on some subjects. At the same time this division of speaker/ listener/interpreter/writer/creator etc. etc. is addressed and not denied. It’s all one has been said, but there’s no proof of that, so why don’t we practices it ?

Aren’t we are all autodidacts in this matter, because if we depend on someone else we make ourselves dependent ?

It’s very unusual on this site or anywhere else in this or other worlds, even in the universe to do this, but how can one find something new if we don’t try to do something new ? ( there’s no proof of this statement or a lot of them before and after, is there ? ) It’s a new moment and also a new attempt to address some explanation of the posts placed on this site.

Of course we need insight into meaning depending on interpretation from the reader/writer using thought, thinking and or focus. This is something we have to keep in mind on the whole of this interview and all posts.

Placing the whole interview here appeared to take 4/5 A4’s so I’ve solved the problem and placed that in the archive so it’s not lost in space.

The really interested souls will found ways to the archive for me this ‘I’cloud is already fading away, like dust in the wind.

quod ad omnia: quicquid pax Ubicumque (latin)

This one you have to translate yourselves otherwise you all are too lazy to learn something. That’s why someone was creative and discovered google and from hear saying: it seems that this one was a friend of the devil or maybe it was the devil himself. It’s not known. You have to be careful with this because it’s mostly a lie. But ‘IT’ could be wrong on this one.

It’s mostly a core of ‘TRUTH’ entangled in the archive of the past, in a WEB constructed by onlines , and of offlines containing facts, lies, storytelling, nonsense, creativity, hope, disasters etc. etc.

Wim, stop “IT” move on.

P.S.: etc., etc. stands for something as eternity, endlessly, etc., etc..

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 27 Feb 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

last post second edition.

Why you became a member of this forum ? During the event I wrote about in my profile someone pointed me to this site and after reading a lot of the posts, while surfing, this post from Mina ( forever thankful ) catches my eye, and that was the beginning more or less. I offered her a Haiku – that’s something I’m doing already for many years to people who in some way are deer to me, family, friends or touching my deer -

It was one I had written years ago and se cached immediately the essence of it. Then spontaneously my answer came out. And it became clear that a miscommunication has taken place. So, being serious, I took a dive into it in my post #4.

Being new I used a lot of words wrongly and at first even the K. approach.

But why this story about the Zenmaster ? That became like a puzzle, who’s pieces felt in place at once. Because this seeing that there’s not only an impossible question possible leading to insight, but also an impossibility to answer a right question and also that miscommunication (verbally, physically, spiritually all or not partly ) from both sites has the possibility for even a right answer.

You’re seeing, or you don’t, you see !!

And also that addresses that there are different kinds of silences, even in the time span of this physical/material silence .

Then you responded again on Mina but totally different and on basis of another forum, why and how?

Reading on the site by a kind of searching my way in this maze of information from so many people. And came suddenly upon this post about her telling a story she heard from a cloud. You could call it a Quantum leap, so to speak.

In the mean time there was a lot of information by surfing on this wave of the ocean in front of me or better said below me. While surfing you aren’t busy with collecting, you try to keep your balance and a lot of details who are there you failing because of the speed and the focus.

That kind of playing with the stuff went on until #6 I think it was, between being serious and fun, no not between it was both.

Than another so called Quantum leap ? Yes a nice switch of a surfing wave. There it became very serious together with an entanglement of storytelling, reality, thought and ‘using my brain for a change’. This is by the way also the title of a book I read from a period in my live where in trying to keep my head above the water, was busy with NLP. Then ‘I’ realized that the same sentence could be interpreted two ways.

Also like this something so far away from K. and at the same time seeing similarities and differences, but when trying to talk about that and this noticed that no one understood.

Why introduce this lunatic ? That came, because of the reaction therefore. This joke I knew, changed suddenly from general into personal by using “I” in the last sentence. One letter and such a great jump in possible meanings. That’s why later on I put a blank line in between. After this kind of scrabble played in the next post.

If you ponder this over it also is something saying as: I’m no border liner, there is no border it only seems that I’m insane, maybe we all are as well as san as insane. I really don’t know.

Of course this is still all depending on interpretation from the reader/writer using thought, thinking and or focus, as I said earlier. But if you repeat that by every sentence or idea, it becomes boring, isn’t it? Also it seems that you have some expectation that those listening/reading/interpreting don’t doing that and that is something you can’t know because it’s character of disappointment and future.

There’s pure logic and also something else, what seems to be disorder/chaos but that is according to David Bohm something like that but from another order from which the order is not yet known. If you point that to the film-world you come out by “The Matrix”.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 28 Feb 2015
Topic: On the action of the total negation of the human consciousness (to Patricia/all)

Dear Mina,

Although still working on my ‘last post’ in “For the thinker only thinker exist.” in a break of this one, there is something here that that you will enjoy. This one is a site trip, so keeping it short.

In the journal of the Belgian television an Islamic female artist painting on black flags colorful verses from the Quran as her contribution to inform the young ones in her city, known for it’s ‘IS-warriors’ that there’s wrong interpretation of this holy book. One of them was this:

‘Every civilization, which doesn’t contribute humanity will eventually die from itself’.

On the same evening I heard ( I don’t know where ): “ The drug of fighting wars “

And also later on, my car broken, writing a birthday message for my grandchild’s birthday (couldn’t go because of that) came, with the help of my wife, this out of our pencil:

You are always there We some time longer here Together making pleasure And connected by LOVE Are we there.

Bye Wim, it still is, isn’t it ?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 02 Mar 2015
Topic: The teaching of K died with him........

‘Last post’ third edition ( hopefully the last one, I don’t know yet ).

This is a trick of course to keep my promise to Patricia that I would post only one post but time and space is too short for this quantum of words, with hopefully some meaning otherwise a lot of my post proofed to be truth and others wrong, but isn’t it that always the case ?

“Whatever you say about something, it will always be something different and ….” (Korzybski) the rest I’m forgotten NOW but you can find it out, hopefully.

There’s this saying: When the wise man is pointing to someone, at the same time someone is looking.

Only on this statement alone you can on deliberating forever. But let’s try to put an end on this interview. We’re running out of time. So the rest of the interview.

Where were we ? Leaving post #6 behind… no it’s vijf 5 but in #6 there’s this recognition of me being too much in the scene or in this case on the ‘screen’.

How did you get on post #7 ? ….. I can’t remember this now, but that doesn’t matter is it ? it’s the last topic and I lost the ‘thread/wires’ of this switching topic’s, so it’s easier to number the posts if you pointing NOW by the numbers within this topic.

That statement of Patricia in #1 together with my interpretation during living, specifically those with the help from Krishnamurti and Bohm set me so to say in fire, leading to #2.

What did creating the tears? I’d already lost my parents and coming from a very large family at that moment in time, we lost the first one of our own generation, my brother in law, also named Wim. On our way to/from the cremation this song entered into our lives, touched our souls, creating tears. There is here a lot more to tell but then it creates etc., etc.

And post #7 ? That was to do with the other posts in this topic, started as a quote, suddenly changing in personal and in the surrounding of the site, may be some universal meaning . We will never know, do we ?

In # 11 I responded on a way also to do with my background, playing scrabble with my wife and my last working career, which began as subjects filler (unschooled work ), clerk, accountants assistant, administrator programmer and ended as system designer. Got invalid because of my eyes around my 50th

What’s wrong with your eyes then ? Also on that item there’s a lot to tell, but I’m born with it and from my 10th until my 15th it mostly consumed my live. Then a young ophthalmologist Dr. Gobin discovered it and operated it as far as he could. NOW I can joking about it in terms with my eventually clear and sometimes wrong seeing.

How so ? Now it seems to be that I’ve more eyes then a lot of you. One lazy eye, one prominent eye , one farsighted eye, one close seeing eye and also there’re grades of the seeing circle which I can’t reach. So plenty of potential excuses in forehand so to say. Posts (#11) & (#15) were responses on posts from other members ?

And what about #27 ? Reading it back, there I flipped completely over to my own seeing at that moment. And also not knowingly laying the fundament for the future posts, I think. An entanglement from past, future in the now. Using the past to clarify the seeing/doing ?

Post #37 I rather want to forget or jump over but that’s a slippery statement, also for me NOW. It’s NOW transformed in my brain to:

There’s a great difference between creating ‘IT’, eating ‘IT’ and being ‘IT’. If you’re creating ‘IT’, you have to consume ‘THOUGHT’. If you’re eating ‘IT’, you’re in this seemingly sane world. If you’re being ‘IT’, it doesn’t matter, you’re just being happy, happy with all those and what’s around you.

Now there are people who are laughing, this are the fools Also there are people who gone defend one of us, this are the followers And the rest remains quit, waiting, searching, debating, communicating etc. etc.

and still there are some of them because they’re seeing the TRUTH in this.

To repair the eventually damage are the posts #93 #102.

What’s the status of #95 ? There it seems I took the seat of the master teaching his pupils. Post #99 is the act on a confounding post in my own dialogue and this one on the forum/topic.

Who’s Patricia ? I’ve never met her in real live but from what I saw in the dialogue already in spirit without any response on her posts. So when she announced her stepping out and the reasons why there was nothing else to do than response with #105.

And then your last Post. Really fantastic. Please don’t give me status, there is the danger of vanity and a lot of other drugs which could poison the meaning of what’s going on.

Why this last post to Mina ? There was so much changed in my live. At that moment I couldn’t talk about it and it was blocking this last post. This appeared to be the solution, to keep real live and moving spiritually aside. A kind of helpline while surfing.

Yes do you surf? No not in real life not online, because of this eye problem, though I want to do.

Why using that word ‘Tsunami ?’ Yes this has a dangerous connotation with danger, dead and surviving. But at the same time it is, I’ve survived physically and mentally and lost the baggage of my past, so to say. So it appeared that to release is not an action in itself but a liberation to survive.

There’s so much more to tell but it stop now.

One last question ?

Have you ever published something ? Yes and now, on my 60th birthday I gave a booklet( on my own account and management) with all my poems and Haiku, to my family and friends. In my youth there are two responses published in the paper on the dead of Pope Johannes XXIII and President Kennedy. I was busy with a bundle of more haiku for my 70e birthday.

Excuse me for my sometimes bad English and or formulation. It was a mix from Dutch/English which sought and found a way out. With sometimes the help of google I translated it in one language knowingly that Truth has its own ways to translate the essence in our minds.

Thanks for your patience and interest. In love Wim

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 03 Mar 2015
Topic: Mindblowing

Hi fellows,

The man who came back is different from the man who went away. Where am I now ? The world seems new to me, old things gone and new things to discover, to find my way in. What began as a wrinkle became a tsunami, which changed, not everything but very, very much. I’m seeing now that I’ve to teach to balance this new energy. Not only for my physical health, because of my handicap, but also for good communication with the outside world.

What seems to be “ giving a piece of my mind “ , which was the starting of the wrinkle, transformed into an opening of the mind and losing my past, my ego. That losing was liberation. Physically back 16 years, but mentally feeling without age, with an energy as great as never before.

The whole exercise on this forum was ‘Mind-blowing’ and now, back on calmer waters, having no idée what to do. So much potentiality, for all those reasons above, I must let the seeds in rest and seeing what it brings. So no responses for, I don’t not yet know how long,( maybe forever) keeping low profile.

One response in this hole event, from a guy in at France, changed also from interpretation.

“ there is only one serious respons: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah”.

He even don’t know of my responses on this forum, so I begin to see why so much Buddha’s have a smiling Face.

Love Wim.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 04 Mar 2015
Topic: Mindblowing

Hi fellows,

The rapidness by which the back fall is recovered surprised me. This headache of mine is back on the level by which I can live with it, as long as I keep the physical boundaries in sight. (Not too long on the screen or book and by driving my car in time taking resting time )

One of the things which changed is that this ‘dominee effect’ is changed in domino effect. (dominee is Dutch for viccor). So not my past, with all the rules is not longer the prime seat, but the present using the past.

Also my sleep is changed. Two or three times a night I’m awake, for I don’t know how long, only to be very, very clear. The only thing what happens is feeling this twinkling in my brain cells as if ‘ I ’ am looking to a river streaming by.

So in counting the hours I sleep less, but in the morning I feel better than I can remember I ever did.

One other thing is, that there is an idée taking form of making a book (pocket) out of this all, if possible with a hole in it. You know why.

I’ll let the seeds in rest and wait until it’s time to come in action on this. Possible with some help from you over there.

Love you, Wim.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 05 Mar 2015
Topic: Mindblowing

dear readers,

This morning I woke up with this idea.

Playing with logic and the information of Krishnamurti and Bohm in a nutshell.

The Percentage sign ‘ % ‘ is two zero’s disunited by a slash. If taken the slash away there’s nothing, zero, zero, because twice zero is still zero. We’re also talking about the ratio of large to small or the other way around. So if we see the slash as permanent, than you get two pieces. If we see it as distinguished instead of separating, there’s the connection between the large and the small and united making the WHOLE, which is all there is.


Forum: General Discussion Thu, 05 Mar 2015
Topic: Does reading books help to see what is?

Hi Jack, ( nice phonetic site sound, by the way ) you wrote:

“ So Jean you are saying that K and Boko Haram are the same? Brilliant! Why were the rest of us unable to see the similarity, the sameness, between Krishnamurti and a bunch of murderous, fanatical Islamic terrorists and thugs (Boko Haram)? “

Wim: Is there not a difference in doing things and talking things over ?

If K. words get the same doing as this guys are doing then there’s a similarity. On the other hand, if the words are seeing in the “ Truth “ perception there’s no greater difference, is there ?

If a fundamentalist is seriously looking to the traffic board “ STOP “, the problem is solved, He does what he’s told to do or, if he’s going on, he isn’t longer a fundamentalist for 100 %.

So living is depending on interpretation of words and signs. Words by themselves means nothing.

Back from the shadow poisoned with the horrors seen in the dark will seldom recover, may be, may be, if seeing the full light of the meaning.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 06 Mar 2015
Topic: Mindblowing

Hello fellows,

This night a lot went by, leading to an ocean of questions, from which three I want to share with you.

There’s this saying: One lunatic can ask more than ten wise man are able to answer. So asking myself, being born as me – alone – What am I ? One lunatic or one of the wise man ?

The other question is:

Is the pain of the parents, who lost their child through the hands of fundamentalists different from the pain of the parents, who lost their child becoming the hands of fundamentalists or different from the pain of the parents who lost their child before or near after giving birth ?

the last question is: Are we really giving Peace a Change or is this only Smalltalk ?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 07 Mar 2015
Topic: Mindblowing

Dear Readers,

Yesterday, sitting on a bench in the park of Brugge, looking at a showering swan under the fountain of the pond, this words appeared on paper.

I am born to be me You are born to be you We are born to be us

But what are we doing ?

Are we working together To make the world a better place to be ?

Answering to Natarajan S: Isn't also proof of we are all one, but lacking something of everything makes a mess out of it.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 09 Mar 2015
Topic: Mindblowing

After family reunion yesterday and talking over our last trip and showing the foto’s:

Dawn Under

Changing our plan First “ Chinese Garden “ instead of the “ Tower eye “ never so close to disaster.

The ocean of flowers to honor the victims we could understand But not the queue for a photo of the Lindt café by disaster tourists

“ Martin’s place “ Will never be the same.

luck and misfortune never so close.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 11 Mar 2015
Topic: Mindblowing

Dear Readers,

This morning it was clear to make a end to this story of mine. The title will be: " Surfing W@ve ".

I've written the introduction and will end with two Haiku, which belongs to the first one I wrote to Mina.

I am not afraid for shadow in front of me Light is backing me.

Light is helping me but the “I” sits in the way put shadow on it.

Author's Introduction:

This is an incomplete written report what has happened for 1 1/2 ½ month in my live. In complete because not everything what happened in my head dealt as reminder, on scraps of paper is written. also, because for privacy reasons some names intentionally not have been mentioned because no permission is and will be asked for.

Some of you will feel personally addressed themselves, but THAT has been not my intention. In the context of self-examination this came out for myself and it seems that others, so possibly you there also could benefit from. Think of it as an invitation and certainly not as a lecture lesson, in the latter case it would overshoot the target, provided that there is/was a target there at all.

“ Wat Wim Kan kan Kan Kan alleen ” (Dutch) The space I came to earth bares several names: ‘Holland’ and ‘The Netherlands’ and within ‘North and South Holland’ and also ‘Friesland’, with their own language, even here and there there’re differences in interpretation and experiences. Now living in Belgium, the Flanders there are a lot of different dialects.

I’ don’t why or how even in two countries (The Netherlands and Belgium and in the last one only in one region “Flanders”) under one name they’re speaking this language, named ‘Dutch’. It’s the source of many miscommunication though, even between two people of good will. We know, I’m from the Netherlands and my wife is from Belgium and we’re happy people still, believe it or not.

The sentence in English translation: “ What Wim Can Can Can Can only “. A lot of our Dutch members and or peoples will recognize this sentence ( I borrowed it from people of our past ( long dead though).

I hope there’s no copyright on it, otherwise I’m in great trouble.

But it seems to fit in the WHOLE I thought I lost while finding this ‘ (W)hole ‘ in my pocket.

Why in English? Since most of what came to me, came in het English, mixed with lots of Dutch and also because many twists word and phonetics let express themselves better in English then in Dutch.

Moreover, for many of us common language area English is not a problem.