Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Manoj SachDeva's Forum Activity | 148 posts in 6 forums


Forum: I Am Not This.. Thu, 11 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Being and relating in the world, there is a sense of 'my conditioning' corrupting the clarity of perception. Result is a 'partial action' that creates more miseries than solving the problems. Is it possible to 'push aside' or 'look through' the murky conditioning and perceive 'what is', as it is?

Forum: I Am Not This.. Thu, 11 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Yes, is it possible to act without a 'memory bias? Analogy of computer is a good one. And, we need to realize that 'virus' corrupts even the machine. Its functioning become destructive and damaging due to hidden agendas and replicating nature of 'virus programing'. Computer is an extension of the human mind and mimics 'mind' even more efficiently.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Fri, 12 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Hi Krishnan Srinivasan, so the mind is conditioned like a computer. I am questioning whether there is a possibility of perception that is free of conditioning. As you suggested, looking at sun/moon/mountain etc, it is relatively easier to watch without a commentary. But in dealing with human beings, more so with intimate relations- each encounter brings with it truckload of memories and associations. And all those bits and pieces are not even conscious. Most of the time, they are implied, under the surface but having, often, not understood but very powerful influence on the action. I am acknowledging the presence of this 'conditioning' and seriously asking if there is a possibility to look at the other without this conditioning.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Fri, 12 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Randal Shacklett writes:

But the computer is not free of its operating system. It is programmed to respond to certain stimuli, just like people are conditioned to respond to certain sensory inputs. We are walking machines who think we are god.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Fri, 12 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Welcome Randal.

You write that we are walking machines, conditioned to respond to certain stimuli in a certain way. My concern is to find out if this mechanical way is the totality of existence or is there another possibility that is beyond mechanical conditioning. How can we probe this?

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sat, 13 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Dear Krishnan, are you saying that 'self' is conditioned. It is in the 'death' of conditioned self that the unconditioned, that is love, can exist? You are suggesting that in the readiness to drop 'the past', like tamarind fruit is ever ready to let go its body, the present is.

So, as the videoload of memory come up and threaten to hijack the present moment, the awareness of ''past'' and its being inappropriate in dealing with the present moment, let the ''old'' drop, like the body of tamarind.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sat, 13 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Yes, Randal. Speculating what is unknown is not the way. So, will it be ok if we begin ''near''? investigating what is.. relationship as we know. ....images that prevent true meeting.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Manoj SachDeva wrote: Self is an "Idea", A construct of this particular persons consciousness identifying as ones "self"/I. It is built up by blockls of conditioned experiences,mempries, actions&reactions,feelings,emotions etc. To go beyond the self one has to look constantly look at thios bondage that self wraps one up.To lose the self is to love. When one loses ones self one can be "other".or one can be aware of all things around ones ambience.

Yes, Krishnan. Self is an idea, a wooly construct. Watchful it is the conditioned block.. experiences, memory... all past. When this past colors the present... innocence of the moment is lost.. and past continues in a modified way.. there in nothing new.. You are saying when this idea of self is not, other is.. love is..

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...
Manoj SachDeva wrote:

Being and relating in the world, there is a sense of 'my conditioning' corrupting the clarity of perception. Result is a 'partial action' that creates more miseries than solving the problems. Is it possible to 'push aside' or 'look through' the murky conditioning and perceive 'what is', as it is?

Thanks Eve, for the effort to clarify. If I am getting you right, the apology is about a possible confusion as to whom your answer belong. All of us are new and learning this new communication idiom...

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

And here I made the mistake of copying a non-intended post. Intention was to copy Eve's '√°pology' mail that I heard as an attempt to clarify that it was a response to Randall and not to any other mail.

Randall is wondering if we are so nice and polite how in the world we can ever explore the competitive and conflicting reality of self.

Is it right Eve and Randall?

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Manoj SachDeva wrote: One shall not hunt after it but one has to become aware of the self operating in myriads of ways. In general, one should be in touch with the other/NATURE/GOD or whatever one term it, by casting aside the "SELF", that is my conjecture.

Can we probe this?

Not hunting but in touch with... by casting aside the "SELF".

There is awareness of the 'hunter' and that is self!

Forum: I Am Not This.. Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Yes Krishnan, all seeking comes with a 'rider'... so, seeking is out...

Forum: I Am Not This.. Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: "I am not a word"

Dear Minna

You say.. without an identification with words/thoughts there is no reactive image...

the division between the outer and inner does not exist..

word/thought might be there.. but it is seen for what is..

and "IT" leaves the space for the field of freedom to operate without reaction..

Am I getting you right?

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sat, 20 Jun 2009
Topic: About the nature of thought

Dear Friend,

The reality of the consciousness is ''trapped in the known'' and ''freedom from the known'' is the ideal.

So, the exploration has a possibility of being directed (guided) towards the ideal.

The hope of being free from the known is interposed between ''I" and "what is"

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sat, 20 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Hi Ramesh,

You are saying that the distance between me and the conditioning is preventing clear perception of what is.

It is not in finding a ''how to formula'' of clear perception but in seeing the falsehood of division between observer and observed - that freedom is there.

But, the illusion of this separation is very powerful like the momentum of a huge river. And, I am trapped in this illusion. I see myself separate from my conditioning and blame conditioning for my pain. I am not able to clearly see that I is the Conditioning. It is the illusion. Can you help me to get free of this duality, my friend?

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sat, 20 Jun 2009
Topic: "I am not a word"

Hi Minna

When there is no difference in ''me'' and ''you'' - You Are The World and The World Is You.

"What is" is there without any need of identification and without the need for it to be any different...

Probably K meant this in You Are The World.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sun, 21 Jun 2009
Topic: About the nature of thought

Quite. It is as limiting to begin with a conclusion as it is to begin with a goal.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Sun, 21 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Hi Ramesh,

I am looking at my need for authority... You are compassionate to tell me to look at the need of dependence...

Forum: I Am Not This.. Mon, 22 Jun 2009
Topic: About the nature of thought

I understand. But this is the fact that all my actions are ''in time'' - from a pattern, for a goal. It is all so mechanical, repetitious. I see it clearly as a concept. But the pattern continues and I sense a helplessness to break from the past.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Mon, 22 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Ramesh it is relieving to know that both of us are in the same boat. Not that you know and I don't or the other way. And together we are seeing the fact.

Past as conditioning guides my action so there is never a break from repetition, from the patterns of past.

So, the question is - is there a possibility / a way to push aside/be free off this cloud of conditioning to have a clear perception of ''what is''?

Forum: Question authority Mon, 22 Jun 2009
Topic: reaction

Keshni Sahni wrote: There is a buddha in everyone, and you too are one. :-)

Eh, first you posit a Budha? You are sure to invent one within!!

Forum: I Am Not This.. Mon, 22 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

Conditioning ..the deepest conditioning is... ME. The thief uses the mask of Police Chief.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: Dispelling Ignorance

Rasmus Tinning wrote: We think that adopting the teachings as our ideology will bring clarity ? but if we are at all perceptive, we also see that intellectual understanding is not enough. We consider ?how to have a non-intellectual understanding? as the final problem. But trying to understand this problem from an ideological state just creates more confusion. It seems to me that a non-verbal understanding of ourselves is necessary for a non-verbal understanding of the teachings and the other way round. And the first step is to see that we are it - the human condition. Dissociating ourselves from it is the very nature of ignorance.

Adopting teaching intellectually is not enough. Non verbal understanding of ourselves happens when I see that I am not separate from ''what is''. The division is false. I negate the division. This act of negation is the end of Observer, the past. There is just what is. The suffering, violence, strife... Not escaping, the energy of what is is not dissipated. There is passion and humility of not knowing in this undivided suffering.

You said it right - we are it - the human condition..

Thanks for sharing...

Forum: K's teachings - new or old? Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: New or old or strange&unique

Vedantic / Advaitic are just words, the description and the description is not the described. Word is not the thing.

When I read/listen to the teachings partially from a ''center'' with comparison, accepting, non accepting etc... the teaching is no different. Just empty words. In this way it is just like any historical scripture.

And, when.. there is listening/seeing.. of what is, that listening has its own wisdom.. to see the truth of what is. Seeing the false as false negates ''what is''. What is beyond ''what is'' is alive and Ks teaching points to that when you listen without comparison, past knowing etc.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

But Ramesh, this is the stark reality. ''I'' is trying to go beyond the conditioning. With this I as seeker, doer, observer - there is no creativity, just repetition..

Forum: I Am Not This.. Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: About the nature of thought

Thank You Dear Friend.

You are saying that behind the helplessness to break the pattern is the desire to be different - the movement away from the truth of "what is".

When I see the impossibility of this - the fragment trying to become whole - the attempt to be whole, wise, enlightened stops.

The pattern is broken..

Forum: K's teachings - new or old? Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: New or old or strange&unique

I am not sure I am getting you right Prasanna. Will you rephrase please..

Forum: I Am Not This.. Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: 'This' Blocks The Clear Perception...

well Ramesh, amusement aside, Identifying oneself with one's profession, socio-economic status, language, ethnic group etc is as strongly pushed over a person as you are trying to fix me into the ''physician slot''.

And, you start believing the fiction that you are a physician, a surgeon or someone else. And this fiction wants to become better, distinguished, more.

If, I have read/listened to K, then I am struggling to drop the fictitious ''me'' - to be one of those selfless 5 who somehow can prevent the humanity from self destruction.

Forum: I Am Not This.. Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: No real contradiction between 'what is' and 'what should be'

Minna, we could say it never happened.... but when you are seeking to get out... you are that movement of ''becoming what should be''.

I see the point that essentially there is no difference in what is and what should be.. the fragment will still remain incomplete.. still struggling to become whole...

What is is as material as what should be, as limiting as what should be. It is in the total attention to the fragment and its seeking that truth of the shadow is revealed.

Forum: K's teachings - new or old? Tue, 23 Jun 2009
Topic: New or old or strange&unique

Prasanna P wrote: his declaration to set mankind absolutely and unconditionally free, is unprecedented.

nothing to disagree about this.

But I don't want to second guess Venu about "K's teaching which in turn would help us understand ourselves better. But often we relegate ourselves to being just academicians seeking to understand K for its own sake. Then probably we miss K's whole point."

Venu, what you think is K's whole point....?