Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
Discussion Forums

Katy Alias 's Forum Activity | 347 posts in 1 forum


Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

mike christani wrote: Actually, I don't know what you mean in the latter, but I wouldn't have gone out of my way to say I find you original if I didn't mean it.

Oh dear...Mike the second part was not connected to the first...Sorry it could seem this way. I took your words seriously. Thanks again , Katy :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

mike christani wrote: No worries, I was just confused. lol-

Yes, of course, a sort of mixed message on my part !...I will be more conscientious in future.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Autonomy/ Tibet

What do other writers here think about the position that the Tibetans are in (or have been in especially since 1959) with respect to China ?

I see how the seeking of 'religious freedom' or to be an autonomous culture-based region goes against the Krishnamurtian goal - if I can put it this way - to be free from/of all religious dogma, worship, tradition and so on...

This said, the Dalai Lama is/was Tibet's figurehead/'ruler' and he in turn a 'vehicle' of Mahayanan Buddhism as y'all know already. Some people see Krishnamurti as a 'vehicle', too, even though his/the teachings obviously differ.

How does the freedom to believe differ from the freedom from belief? (No formal answer expected - just a tributary question).

Any thoughts y'all would like to share about this topic ?

Thanks, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Is it true that I/you/we can only really be products of our environment or not?

I am sometimes at odds with the continued insistence here that we are all violent since my position/environment does not ask me to be so - to use my fists so to speak. However, I do see that people are talking about humanity as a whole and especially 'psychological violence' which sometimes has operated here even though (I think) Krishnamurti appeals mostly to people who wish to 'know'/'see' peace, love, selflessness, beauty and so on...

It is easy to judge, reject and/or punish society's 'miscreants'/law-breakers and there is an absurd number of laws to break in London where the population is so dense and the rights of the individual are forever being sought (or bought as the case may be!). It is irrefutable that most people in 'our' prisons are from disadvantaged groups. The same applies to lunatic asylums.

There is a direct correlation between despair and losing one's grip on/of reality. Krishnamurti as you know already asks 'is it possible to end all sorrow ?' In just being concerned with 'my' sorrow and being 'a light to' myself I wonder sometimes if I am doing the right thing. For one, because my conditioning has given me a Catholic conscience which promotes 'altruism' in the main and, secondly, because I see compassion as action.

Being indoctrinated by any religion does not allow a person to know/see what s/he would otherwise be. There are lots of crazy religious zealots out there aswell as genuine people of the cloth so to speak who have a religious calling to do good with their lives. The same could be said (ironically) of soldiers who are prepared to die for others' peace...and...zzz

Thanks for reading, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

mike christani wrote: I recall a quote, "You can help only when you yourself are beyond the need of help." Like a lot of k's stuff it can sound extremist. 'All or nothing'...

Yes, a good quote, Mike...It is not possible to separate/divorce oneself from one's environment...and not everyone has the time and opportunity to really ponder/process K's teachings...

The freedom/space/time to do so is felt by me to be indicative of 'relative freedom' if not a privilege. But I sometimes feel like I might be leading myself up the garden path !:-)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Plain truth

Where is Kapila ?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Autonomy/ Tibet

Thanks Mike and Ari for your interesting points...I also found 'Freedom in Exile' by The Dalai Lama to be an interesting read. Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

pavani rao wrote: The above post  is also  looking  like a very promising  subject to go into .. But may be some other time . 

Hi Pavani,

Good to read you, too, as always... Sorry to hear about the cyclone and hope that you enjoyed the festivities anyway... More later, Katy :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

B Teulada wrote: what is there is no happiness?

Yes, B T, I see the profundity of your points/observations. Thanks.

You are asking if there is a happiness which is not mere pleasure-seeking (?) And then considering the idea that there might not be such...?

When in a peaceful frame of mind I experience joy in watching/noticing the rain fall. I guess this makes me sound very simple and is old hat /common and sounds a bit trite BUT it is true. If I go for an arduous walk or run I feel connected to Nature - rain is most welcome and a sense of freedom occurs. This state of consciousness can be explained chemically as a serotonin rush or something. It might even be a form of hedonism but it is 'healthy' and doesn't hurt others to do running does it ? So many people are mostly sedentary and not connected to the physical or natural world. (Too much computer time stresses me out and as you know I became inordinately wound up in this forum. Sorry !).

I am listening to a K discussion whilst writing this and he is talking about right relationship beyond time, measure and so on...Do you think he appeals to our 'aspirational' or 'higher' self ? (I don't know how else to put this). If so, it would seem to me that there is more than the bleakness and harshness implied in your observation.

B Teulada wrote: then you end up having an entire humanity frustrated and angry all seeking something in a wide variety of manners, which does not exist in the first place.

That could account for a lot of anger and violence

Yes, B T, I see your point since people feel that they should be enjoying life. There are perhaps too many factors to name here as to what prevents people from doing so.

Channeling the energy of anger into sport would seem to be a good idea. Also, when acting upon their social conscience people seem happier (to me). Comparison seems to be a no no for K-people but it is a leveller to recognise that there really is always someone worse off and it brings cheer to be able to help. Not everyone has the freedom/capacity to 'be a light to' themselves do they ? I know why people say that society sucks but there are loads of unsung genuine heroes acting on their compassion and trying to make a difference too...

I hope this reply isn't too long ? Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 13 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Michael Dunne wrote: It might be innate in us.

Oh dear !:-)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 14 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

B Teulada wrote: me too but then i lose that peace, so it was never real to begin with (?)

I see what you mean, B T, and I have run a very long way over the years !:-)

B Teulada wrote: Oh, most people do, but with some other, like maybe us, the storm is not just an ordinary up-and-downish affair, it really gets one to the edge of ... well.

Yup !:-) I have been told that I feel things too much...

B Teulada wrote: the tremendous peace i have been living in for a couple of years after starting reading K has now taken a vacation without warning and i am back to my ordinary gloomy, pent up, inward-turned anger which then explodes at the wrong times with the wrong people, with anyone and with the world at large. i am actually mad i was born.

I can relate to what you are saying B T...I used to have a placid temperament though.

B Teulada wrote: i do that on a steady basis. as you probably know, most sport addicts (like me) have suffered from mild to not so mild depression in their past

Yes, sport is great for depression but some people can't get into it as you know and find themselves taking drugs. Recently, there was a lot in the newspapers claiming that anti depressants don't really work.

B Teulada wrote: like K i have always felt comparison to be such a huge double-edged sword. the "hey, there's lots of people out there with problems far more serious than yours" does nothing for me other than making me feel even worse.

Yes, it is possible to become overwhelmed by seeing just how much unhappiness there really is...

B Teulada wrote: so nice to see you back all happy and relaxed.

Cheers, B T...I hope to keep it up and not get caught tangled up in or by the warring element that was here any more. I am also sorry that I kept reacting to you. I made myself very unpopular for defending others' rights to write here even if they didn't agree with K. (I wasn't really familiar enough with his work to raise criticisms of my own !:-)

I hope today is a good one for you...'bye for now, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 14 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Jean Gatti wrote: Some here might recognize the quote ... :-)

For sure, Jean , it is from what is commonly known as 'The Serenity Prayer'...I have observed this property/quality of self (serenity) in others before - usually in older people - and I don't think it was a trick of the light...:-)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 14 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Satya Prakash wrote: Is there a seeing which never meets attachment?

Hi Satya,

I know/see that this question is addressed to Michael and hope it is also okay to share my 'answer' to this deep question of yours (?) Michael's answer will differ so it is' two birds with one stone', sir :-)

A Krishnamurtian answer to this might be to say that it is possible to see the beauty of for example a flower without possessing or being attached to it...there is a correspondence without the word - transcendent perhaps - in this way...

I see that when I am not comparing ie. not preoccupied with a me that separates/divides that I notice the beauty in all - just looking at people can strike me...we are all beautiful, fragile and beautiful...it breaks my heart to be aware of all the needless sorrow/suffering in the world. Whenever I am self-centred I add to the collective plight (war?) utterly negatively. It might not be possible to attain serenity as an overall characteristic but it is possible to be still in this moment and the next with another and not spoil the time together with so many noisy words...a gentle walk in the rain for its own sake is preferred :-)

You fill up my senses like a walk in the rain John Denver (a line from a 1970's song available on you tube)

Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

mike christani wrote: We can all do some work in this area, and it need not be becoming Liberated or an impossible ideal, but for now, be quiet, aware of the beauty of anything or nothing. Light a candle; walk in the rain!

Yes, for sure, Mike, why not ? This forum can become very heady and intense sometimes...I hope that you are having a good day :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Satya Prakash wrote: But the fact is that one is always comparing/analysing/judging/describing etc. as your following sentences show below:

For sure, Satya, I did not express myself clearly here. I meant to say equally beautiful i.e without measure...The capacity to to be free of/from measure/comparison comes and goes (for me).

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Satya Prakash wrote: How does one find out whether the above is just an intellectual projection of an emotional person or clear seeing of a fact inwardly and so, outwardly?

It is hypocritical to be self-centred and at the same time to claim to be concerned with the world's sorrows, isn't it? (Even though the message might be that I am the world !:-)).

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Satya Prakash wrote: This insight brings another kind of silence that is deeper, is not touched by the activities of the self and is responsible for total seeing/perception.

Are you talking about 'at oneness' as total seeing/perception, Satya ? Or should I read what K said about this and get back to you ? I sense that I am on a different wavelength.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

Satya Prakash wrote: Yes, sharpening of the senses and keeping the qualities of the heart alive without greed or compulsion is the right approach to finding what intelligence/love are, Katy.

Yay !:-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Oct 2013
Topic: ****************************

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Oct 2013
Topic: ****************************

Jack Pine wrote: What is it? Just drawing attention to yourself?

Of course not, Jack. I started a new thread and then changed my mind...Sorry ! Katy

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Oct 2013
Topic: Depth

mike christani wrote: No topic seems to gain any depth.

Yes, Mike I see your points...it is difficult to look into topics slowly enough and deeply enough - together without all the diverions, tangents, friction and/or information overload... Perhaps this is not a shared aim, really ? It might also be a problem to do with there currently being not many writers and/or the focus not being as it might. (I say this because my own focus could be far better than it is right now). Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Oct 2013
Topic: ****************************

Jean was right about the problem being that it wasn't possible to delete the topic title - only to edit it.

Jack, I have drawn quite enough attention to myself in this forum over these past few years haven't I ? !:-) So much so in fact that I would prefer to fade into the background and just be able to keep a cool head, not get drawn into the argumentative parts and stay with the topics...A new me...yay !

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Oct 2013
Topic: ****************************

...Furthermore, every post written to the forum, Jack, is from a person 'drawing attention to' themselves in one way or another - not just me - so please don't single me out. Thanks.

It may or may not be true that I do write more from the first person - the 'I' - and I do so to be as 'real' as possible rather than being too 'abstract' or boring people with endless quotes from K which people can read for themselves. (I don't exclude his work in my writing either). I have been told that I feel things too much and the hard-nosed or even callous element of this forum calls me 'a drama queen'. I don't act at all.

It is difficult to know whether or not to write to a climate that was once so 'hostile' and my wariness/fear led me to change my mind about starting another topic because I did not want to invite controversy. Just like you, sir, I don't always look before I leap !

I hope that you are having a good day...There is a dull sky and rainfall here at the moment...my garden likes the rain and so do I :) Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Oct 2013
Topic: ****************************

For sure, Jack, thanks for your reply :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

pavani rao wrote: And may be it's an ongoing process .. One existential dilemma leading to another ... Never ending I guess ...

Yes, indeed, Pavani, thankyou for your considered and interesting reply :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Oct 2013
Topic: Environment/Violence/The Self

mike christani wrote: On the contrary, I think self-knowing alone will save this world.

Hi Mike,

I think this video might be of interest to you... it is relevant to this part of our discussion/view :

http://youtu.be/QiIlEpLk4A0

Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 18 Oct 2013
Topic: ?

Veering off topic is not harassment and Ari/Paul's posting is no less 'ubiquitous' than Jean's...

"The other person is you " !:)...Narcissism is more apparent in some people than others, isn't it ? And it is a very complex topic.

Just skipping over or ignoring posts that don't appear relevant would appear to be friendlier...

Earlier this year I read about Theosophy and mysticism and some of it was pretty dark so I am reluctant to post links here.

I hope that you guys can sort out your differences. I have realised that continually 'reacting' when my buttons were being pushed here just made everything worse. Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 19 Oct 2013
Topic: ?

Paul/Ari,

Things are not quite as you say...for sure there is an impasse between us and I don't wish to extrapolate with you about why - you know why !

Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 19 Oct 2013
Topic: Dialogue or Debate ?

Jean Gatti wrote: Would it be possible to come back to K's recommendation on this "to share here and learn as friends" ?

I just wondered if this was possible ? ...

??

...

Or are we definitively lost in conflicts and violence inflicted to each other ?

Hi Jean,

Of course it is possible "to share here and learn together as friends " but some writers are just too arrogant to do so.

Hardly anyone writes here anymore probably because of the 'unfriendly' atmosphere.

Dev could do a mail out to encourage more people to write...

Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 19 Oct 2013
Topic: ?

Jean Gatti wrote: and this is real 'forgiveness' Katy, when it is seen that there is nothing to 'forgive' in fact ...

I really hope you could see this Katy, in all friendship.

How do you forgive a person who is unapologetic Jean ? Or worse, denies the fact of the thing/action ?

For some people sorry seems to be the hardest word !:)

Is it possible for a person to see his/her own narcissism ? What would motivate him/her to change ?