Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Katy Alias 's Forum Activity | 347 posts in 1 forum


Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Thankyou, Satya, for your pointers and good humour :-)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Satya's right about not having expectations of others' writing but to instead be mindful of one's own contributions...

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Arivalagan S wrote: The forum does not ask that people divulge their real names in public, Katy. You alone have had about ten aliases, here and elsewhere. You know what I mean.

No, Paul/Arivalagan, I don't know what you mean ! This whoppa of a lie about me is a reflection of your lack of integrity isn't it ?

I have always and only written to this forum in one first name (as Katy). The same cannot be said of you since you have written in about 10 aliases - male and female - sometimes arguing with one another haven't you? That is past now. I see that you are being highly defensive about your own participation here.

Paul, if you just want to be insulting and dishonest please don't address me directly. Thanks.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

I won't import it all here but for those who are interested in this topic there is quite a lot written about integrity by Krishnamurti @ J Krishnamurti Online...

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

anish leh wrote: Are you saying integrity is dependent, is or isn't according to what people post?

An interesting question, Anish...is there such a fixed identity as integrity appertaining to the self or is it something a person tries to have/aspires towards? Misplaced trust impacts negatively and creates suspicion/caution which in turn impedes freedom of speech or voice I suppose. What do you say ?

I read some of what K wrote about it (integrity)and it would seem to be an 'imperative'...please see J Krishnamurti Online for more since I would not do his words justice and Jack and others here make the point rightly about not interpreting (or transposing) his words.

Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Jack Pine wrote: But I have often suspected that there were people with two or more simultaneous identities on this forum that they use to hammer away at their detractors.

Yes, indeed, Jack this has most certainly been the case...I haven't taken part for a few months so I don't know if it is still operating.

Jack Pine wrote: Personally, I think the most disruptive type of poster on here is the one who presents himself as an expert on K and a sort of continuation of K's consciousness. Like the people who are here to be our mirrors and who will tell us what K really meant. And who understand perfectly what K pointed out and are too willing to show us the errors of our understanding.

Yes, I do see your point. Thanks.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Paul/Arivalagan,

I have sent you a pm about this...I haven't written here for a while and you are seeking an argument with me. Give me a break ! Thanks.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Thankyou very much, Anish, for your reply #20 :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

What causes people/us to wear masks - some more elaborate than others?

Is it a way of distancing and/or distinguishing oneself from others?

What (or who) is it that is being hidden?

Do you agree with K's 'definition'/'description' of integrity ?

It seems to me that fear is at the root of mask-wearing as with everything. How can I/one approach dialogue in an environment/atmosphere of fear ?

I have put great store by K's work because he rejects the inherited mumbo jumbo of classifications which divide us. How can I, Katy, break free of the nonsense that has been written here about another's image of me/you/us? ?

It seems right/true as you all say that image-making is the obstructive force and some of you seem to be very cool and able to just stay with the topic.

Being with what is from moment to moment (a person of integrity in a K-sense) asks that there is no (psychological) accumulation really of a me/self. I want to make my peace with people here and to let go of the difficult past wrangles and ugly projections but I have not learned how to confront internet bullying.

The other part is that I was/am open to the element here which was 'iconoclastic' ie. that questioned K's authority...This was alright in principle even though it was a bit daft of me since I don't have anything more sagacious to offer others !

Watching the little birds enjoying what's left of the honeysuckle as I am writing this...a good day for a walk...'bye for now, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Satya Prakash wrote: Expecting 'love, trust and integrity' from each poster here is a tall order.

:-)

I guess reading and listening to K raises a person's expectations and hence the conflict, Satya.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Jean Gatti wrote: Satya Prakash means "Truth that enlightens" ... this is too serious, too respectable, to indulge in good humour ...

:-)

Hi Jean.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

Is it just wishful thinking to be absolutely free of one's conditioning ?

Where does aspiring to be free as such meet or not meet with 'renouncing' the self or the me like monks and nuns do but without (moral or religious) precepts to follow ? If it is is true that humankind is by our very nature violent, isn't it wise to have precepts/oughts to be guided by?

This question is linked in some ways to the reality of integrity which we have touched on under a different heading ie. living moment to moment in 'harmony'/accordance - truly with what is.

Do you feel that you are less part of society having read K ?

We are conditioned, too, to have - if not need - a sense of belonging since being 'exiled' is punitive, isn't it ? Or is it ?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Satya Prakash wrote: Mask wearing is usually recognised by one only in others, Katy. Why is this so?

I see why you are pointing this out, Satya...It is also the case, however, that a person who is essentially being honest can be deceived by another's deception. I don't see how this can always be a mirror, really. What creates the feelings of hurt, betrayal of trust etcetera? Is it the vanity or clinging to an ego/image of oneself as honest that is offended? Is the part that rejects the actor or maskwearer also a mask of sorts? (This is a confusing question. Sorry !:-)).

Satya Prakash wrote: When one lies or changes facts or deceives another, then one is consciously or unconsciously pursuing self gratification or avoiding pain/hurt. Fear may be the cause or the projected effect of such behaviour.

Seeing this...Thanks Satya.

p.s. It seems in this forum that some people have adopted maskwearing by way of retaliation...'if you can't beat them join them' !:-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Satya Prakash wrote: Yes, K's words do have this powerful effect (a ray of hope?) on a serious person's mind that state of affairs in relationships in one's world can certainly change for the better!

Here's hoping...:-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

Jean Gatti wrote: Then we can BE ourself ... only then we can BE ...

Dear Jean,

Thank you for your considered reply...

This is a complex topic isn't it? And I have meditated on aloneness which is as you say clear and distinct from loneliness.

I do not see that it is possible to look at aloneness without physically being alone. Being alone out of choice is, of course, different from being exiled for dissent and so on...

Jean Gatti wrote: then there is no need for fear, no need to accept any authority, no need for approval, for agreement, no need to believe, no need for masks and social fa├žade ...

Right on...!:-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

David T wrote: One can not help but feel marginalised from society if one accepts the teachings of K. How many conversations last very long when one brings up the subject of the ending of the self.

Yes, David, this is a very far-reaching point imho...Thanks.

Marginalisation is indeed no mean chalk because the social constructs/forces are so powerful. My interest remains in people who have been fundamentally marginalised ('outsiders') as much as with those who are seeking to reject the status quo.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

mike christani wrote: I think the status quo drops from you the further you go into 'K

Yes, Mike, I agree...'just being is enough'...This said, I have a sort of bee in my bonnet which forces me to value honesty...I don't see how it is possible to follow a logical line of reasoning without this measure and it doesn't contradict K's take on 'integrity' which is being with 'what is'.

Where does honesty relate to memory ? Being in the moment without storing memories perhaps overrides accumulation of memory - for example, consistency as to what is/was said by another ? I don't know.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

...An interesting aside, Mike - not irrelevant :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Jean Gatti wrote: When there is no ego, 'what is' is accepted as it is (surrender), there is no more creation of a 'should be' (or expectation) ... so no psychological time created ... things are taken as they are, without any judgement or evaluation or criticism ... just facts ... no added 'value', no judgement ...

Surrendering in this way requires that one does not attach oneself to any principles/values at all. Are all values/principles symptomatic of a person's conditioning ?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Satya Prakash wrote: The hurt person may not see this clearly as he/she blames squarely and only the actions of the other for his/her disturbed state of mind, but this is not exactly the complete picture, don't you think?

For sure, Satya, I see your point...The hurt is not just because of the other's action but arises from the expectation/wish that s/he be otherwise (?)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Jean Gatti wrote: I feel sincerity in what you say Katy ... I really hope you can succeed in finding peace, here and inside yourself ...

:-)

Cheers, Jean, the same to you :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Michael Dunne wrote: What is meant by this word 'integrity' ? What if I told you, NOTHING. Would there be a profound change in your life.

Hi Michael,

I see your points above #51. Cheers.

I have learned from my brief communication in this thread that the problem seems to have arisen from a person's (my) expectation. Is it liberation, harsh realism or nihilism talking to have no expectations of others ?

People have judged one another here as 'real' or 'fake' so my question did arise with relevance to 'what is' in this forum.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

:-)Thanks, David, for the humorous observation...some people recommend observing the space between thoughts although sometimes (often) I struggle to think and doubt whether anything I do think or say is original or of any interest which makes me wonder why I write here at all !

(I do enjoy reading others' posts and the opportunity this site affords but not the warring element which we all seem to struggle with in different measures).

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Jean Gatti wrote: I would say that expectation is the seed of disappointment/suffering ... better surrender to 'what is' unconditionally ...

Yes, Jean, a great answer...now all one needs to do is remember to do so !:-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: What would Krishnamurti do?

Sam Adams wrote: Also why does noone on this forum talk about the utter state of despair, immoralism and degeneracy that our society is racing toward.. The darkness that is currently in our world.

People do talk about this sometimes, Sam, although sometimes it would appear that people are lost in or escaping into more superficial or abstract realms and the freedom to think or meditate together here (or fight!) is a relative privilege in a world which you describe/see to be mostly one of 'degeneracy'... I suppose action speaks louder than words and there are two 'camps' as I see it operating here in terms of what constitutes 'right action'. Some K people's focus is being a light to oneself and others see/say that it is better to be a 'social activist'.

Do the people writing here have any real power/influence anyway?

Regards, Katy

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

Jean Gatti wrote: the intelligent part of thought lies in those silences ... a little bit like a sunshine between two big clouds in the sky ...

Cheers, Jean...observing the sky and less chitter chatter :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

mike christani wrote: Katy, I think you do think originally and honestly, and that makes it of interest. Your comments on honesty struck a chord in me, for instance. (But what kind of human being would I be without a little dishonesty?) Cheers-

Cheers to you also Mike...'revealing all' online probably is ill advised but K speak seems to demand this. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

mike christani wrote: Well, I think K was against the showing 'dirty laundry' like some other groups. But at the same time, honesty is important, even intellectual honesty.

Yes, I see this with you...Cheers.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Freedom

mike christani wrote: Katy, I think you do think originally and honestly, and that makes it of interest. Your comments on honesty struck a chord in me, for instance. (But what kind of human being would I be without a little dishonesty?) Cheers-

Thanks for saying so Mike... It seems (also) that people might be governed in the main by social acceptance and fear of alienation or rejection by the 'group' causes a person to be dishonest.

If it is true that 'the other person is you' it shouldn't matter what I/we/you say BUT...you know the rest !:-)

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 12 Oct 2013
Topic: Love, Trust, Integrity...

Michael Dunne wrote: Then if you try to live according to that plan, like trying to remember to always surrender unconditionally, then you are trapped in an IDEA born out of thought, the past, and you will never know freedom, for freedom doesn't come out of the past. The PAST is a dead thing.

Yes, perhaps Krishnamurtiism and marriage contracts don't go together :-)

I see the trap you are describing very well, Michael...Thanks. Also, having no emotional response at all seems/feels quite sinister even if it is essentially an indication of attachment to an idea of a person (based on past actions). Nor is it liberating for another person to be fixed/trapped by an idea/expectation of him or her.

Talking of freedom, I don't like to know the weather forecast because I prefer to be surprised...anticipating the future is not freedom either is it?