Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Dan McDermott's Forum Activity | 2030 posts in 4 forums


Forum: General Discussion Wed, 15 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

Stumbling along attempting to "cultivate" awareness of myself. Why? I guess because it makes sense to me that it just could be that it is the abscence of awareness that is responsible for the craziness of humanity in general...the killing, the hatred, the greed, my own turmoil and confusion etc. Along comes K with the message that the problem is that we are 'asleep' in a way that we don't understand. Others have brought the same message. For some reason it resonates with me and I am 'hooked'. He once said that "a confident man is a dead human being." That turns everything we are taught on its head. All my attempts, my search etc. only butress Me, my ego against the "uncertainty that he suggests is the needed state, the vital state, the one that I automatically run away from. The world is a mess and it's not getting better that I can see. Maybe K was on to something and he sure gave it his all to get it across. What I do with those ideas is my problem I guess and though I have no reason to believe in it, maybe my "karma"

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 15 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

The only "teachers" in this realm that ultimately continued to interest me were the ones who said over and over, "don't follow, don't believe: "Self Knowledge" is the seeing of your exchanging one trap for a more attractive one. "Seeing" is work, it doesn't just happen because you read about it or heard about it. First prove to yourself that you can't stay with yourself for more than a few moments. That for me is simply a fact. And if you've got some character or other saying that it is significant that you can't stay in touch with your physical sensations, thoughts etc. and that it is an important to realise that. What you do with that realisation is your deal. No methods. No rituals. No help. Are attempts at cultivating an awareness of yourself just another form of entertainment? Another way to get the big prize?: the Kingdom of Heaven, the Absolute, the Immensity. Probably or maybe, surely, but unless something else comes along to tease my fickle heart, I,m hooked...

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 16 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

lidlo lady wrote: That's the hook, Dan.

NO. The "hook" is that you/I can't "remember myself". And that is what is being "pointed at" here and is being suggested as a situation of significance, dire significance, given our confusion and cleverness. But this inquiry into our 'lack' of this mental state seems to be of interest to very few and that is probably "lawful" but having swallowed some of the poison of these ideas, I, stumble along...K's ideas may be "relics" to you but for me they are very potent.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 16 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

Well for sure I know that I'm not under Mitt Romney's influence,-- but "why"?...Well to me Romney is ambitious, two-faced, a panderer, ridiculous, etc. and I want nothing to do with him. For me,on the other hand, J.K. was reasonable, thoughtful, intelligent, sensitive, poetic, humorous (i.e. " Yes, yes, old boy, why don't you tell us all about it .") and he spoke about those situations when we have been so painfully knocked off our High Horse and how valuable it is to watch as we desperately try to get back in that saddle. He pointed out the value of the moments when things went awry,got ugly, got bad,the possibility of seeing in those moments and not normaly, just running. To me there is nothing out of date about that. It's hard and it's timeless stuff, I think we're lucky to have had the chance to have heard him and some of the others as well.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 16 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

lidlo lady wrote: Yes. He said we learned the most when at a loss, and that was good of him. But what he didn't say was that learning doesn't begin until the teacher is an illusion.

Yes I agree that it was good of him to pass that on to us but I don't understand what it is that you are suggesting in the second part. Could you phrase it differently?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 16 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

It's interesting to suppose that all these teachers: the Christs, Buddhas, Maharshis, Krishnamurti, Gurdjieffs etc. were all quite mad in their own way. That this "Truth" that they pointed at as being possible for a human to discover in his/her life was really not the "Truth" at all but some abberant vision that took hold in their own minds. "Conditioning","Fear","Dependancy" "Anger" "Desire" the quest for more and more pleasure and entertainment were actually the norm for us all and these people with their "visions"(fantasies) of enlightenment,nirvanas, heavens etc.found all too willing suckers like me to eat this stuff up. "Hey, I want that "vision"too...you know the one you guys all had. So tell me, how do I get this this very cool state of mind you guys are laying out there? What, I can't ask "how" cause that implies a method, and a method implies "Time" and this thing is outside of time? Wow-this sounds cooler every minute, better than a million bucks in the bank and a villa in the Balleares. I suspect These guys probably meant well but you know what: to hell with them!...chasing my tail for the rest of this life for some thing that's not even "Real"!; might as well work on getting that million and that place in Palma...now that's Real.(and who knows, if you play it right maybe you can get that "Other Thing" too... yeah I know that Christ bit about the rich man and the eye of the needle but he probably wasn't talking about money...")

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 16 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

Paul Davidson wrote: Dan, come to your senses, stop before it's too late. One more post like that and you'll be declared the seventh Paul Davidsonofabitch we've been addled with on Killfonet this month. Really, it's too much.

...and I was just warming up...

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 16 Aug 2012
Topic: The Krishnamurtian Mind

I think both poems are nice and if It were the case that I was "following, trailing"etc., I'm sure I'd be tempted to "follow" both your advice.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 17 Aug 2012
Topic: Statements of Non-Belief

With the mention of "world war", I'm recalling that sense of urgency in K's speaking and writing that was very interesting for me. I took the idea in this way: as humans we are 'unfinished', we have a 'birthright' that is to be discovered, but that it needed to be 'worked at', that this 'finished state' does not come about through evolution but through Work on oneself. And since this 'revolution' couldn't come about collectively, it was a very personal effort. And why this work was important was that without some sort of transformation, given our ingenuity in creating weapons of destruction, humans were probably going to do great destruction to us and those around us. I have a friend who whenever I speak of some sort of transformation that eased the violence we show to each other, he says:"No, no...humans will never change!" And when someone asked K about how the transformation of one person could have any effect upon the world, he as I recall mentioned something about the behavior of wolves: that a change in one had an effect upon the entire pact. He also used the metaphor: "the house is burning!" Just recalling this after reading through this forum (my first time to read an entire one.) Cheers!

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 17 Aug 2012
Topic: Statements of Non-Belief

"Fantasy" perhaps...but there could be something to this possibility of us as being "unfinished" and no usual way of self-improvement does the job. Looking around at what seems like a sort of harmony in nature: everything happily eating each other, we humans do stand out as being comparitively speaking;very wierd. But imagine being able to see the mess "others" are in and actually seeing what is the impediment to their "Freedom" and setting out to "help" (Christ, Buddha, K and some others through teachings, example etc. ) and not being able to do it; failing, all of them, in creating the sort of miracle in others hungry for something called enlightenment.Why couldn't they do it? Can't be done?Maybe it is a "fantasy" to think whatever happened to them was transferable. And with no God to help us out, we just may be totally screwed.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 17 Aug 2012
Topic: Statements of Non-Belief

Paul Davidson wrote: I detect Ouspensky behind the idea, not K.

True but his idea, as a I understood from his connection with Gurdjieff was not the single jump or revolution that K points at but that through a "Work" on conciousness, man moved up a possible scale from ordinary to the highest.(or perhaps not at all) So different levels of conciousness are present in people and that seems to be reflected in the posts here.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 17 Aug 2012
Topic: Statements of Non-Belief

lidlo lady wrote: while most are seeking a host.

Would explain what you mean by that?

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 18 Aug 2012
Topic: Statements of Non-Belief

lidlo lady wrote: way of looking at things strikes its fancy and quells its desperation.

So what is it that strikes your fancy and quells your desperation? (Self-Calming) Never mind any comparisons, isn't this what self-knowledge is about. Not whether those "believers" are not as savvy as you. They have their own "cross to bear"forget about commenting on them and their "incapacity". See yourself. As the quote conveniently says above. No need to go beyond that. (Is this too preachy? I've had a bit of the bubbly.)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 19 Aug 2012
Topic: APHORISM OF THE DAY

Paul Davidson wrote: Maybe we should set up a K-sauna. I know Gurdjieff believed in it. I'll consult Dan Mc.

I think that you know more about this than I do. Share.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 19 Aug 2012
Topic: Freedom from computers

Suppose in some future, after nuclear holocausts, epidemics,pollution and natural disasters have annihilated most of the world's population and only a handful of people remained and they were all kinfonet fans and interested in K and related things, There would be hope for mankind then don't you think?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 19 Aug 2012
Topic: Freedom from computers

Auré Lien wrote: some people here may perhaps prey for that a nuclear holocaust gets rid of me, i don't know.

Really? What possibly could you have said that would make these peaceful types here wish for such a thing?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 19 Aug 2012
Topic: The Hollow Core of Krishnamurti's Teaching

In a hundred, 5 hundred, a thousand years Krishnamurti will become part of the pantheon of the great teachers. These Kinfonet forums (some will insist they were called "Killfonet")will be unearthed like the Dead Sea Scrolls and read avidly by those trying to get the essence of K's teachings. It may even be the fashion again of assigning him diety status. And the people here, will be seen as his earliest disciples puzzling through, arguing, praising the Master's Word. There are the 'doubting Thomases', the Peters and Pauls and maybe a Judas or two...If K never actually turned water into wine, or healed the blind, or raised the dead, he will have (or something of similar magnitude)when the future gets hold of the teachings.

I started this after imagining a similar forum about the newly deceased Christ and his followers trying to figure out what the hell He was talking about: ("turn what cheek"?, "give away our money!...easy for Him to say!"The Kingdom of Heaven is where? ) sort of ala 'Life of Brian'... but I am no writer.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 19 Aug 2012
Topic: The Hollow Core of Krishnamurti's Teaching

lidlo lady wrote: ...not much of thinker either if you can't see K's delusion.

You shall become the "Doubting Lidlo"!

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 20 Aug 2012
Topic: What others think about oneself

Paul Davidson wrote: So, what created your 'me?' How did your 'me' come about? Was it the fall from grace? Or perhaps the Devil?

The 'me' or "I process" begins obviously as a child and comes about naturally as a way to deal with the confusion of the world it finds itself in. It is self-protection literally and how it is constructed depends on its environment and its inclinations. It is a process of acquiring self-esteem without which the person is psychologically crippled. The stronger the sense of self-esteem the more possibilities that are open to the person in the world. With a low self esteem all efforts to find the "spiritual",the "transcendant" are searches to enhance one's own sense of self,obviously,and to strengthen the ego rather than the necessary undermining of it. The ego must be undermined if it is ever to be transcended but the circus begins in the attempts (teachings) whose goal is to bring about this transformation, this awakening. K's teaching I believe is for this purpose. And for me personnally it was the most interesting but it may be that while the ideas "sound" so good and "ring so true" the "revolution" they aim to bring about does not occur. He blames the failure on a lack of "passion without motive",and many other things. I wouldn't know but I haven't seen evidence in myself of change from a long study of his and other's work and not in other people either. So the "Devil" or "fall from grace" maybe behind our situation, those are just words ultimately, but for whatever the cause, we are what we are.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 21 Aug 2012
Topic: Consciousness

I think now that the entire Varsity team is out in the schoolyard, it's time for Victor to make another appearance and distract the boys from their dustup and all concentrate instead on separating Victor from his lunch money.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 21 Aug 2012
Topic: Consciousness

I think now that the entire Varsity team is out in the schoolyard, it's time for Victor to make another appearance and distract the boys from their dustup and ask a question and then they can all come together once again and concentrate instead, on separating Victor from his lunch money.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 21 Aug 2012
Topic: Consciousness

lidlo lady wrote: "Victor" was putting us on with his disapproval of the desire for victory.

What on earth does that mean?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 24 Aug 2012
Topic: Krazy K Kwotes

I think that the half dozen Seers here on the forums should take a break...you know who you are: the cream that has risen to the the top with your snidery, your bon mots, your cleverness etc. Why not take a break , maybe a month? and give us, the inferiors a chance to muddle through a bit,to go astray.- Find another entertainment for a while. You've established how brilliant you are here, we have all seen it and we will welcome you back I'm sure after our dreary,polite, uninteresting dialogues have gotten us nowhere... but take a break, go outside, work out if you still are able to, whip your dog, discipline you grandchildren and then, return,and thrill us all again with your sagacity, nastiness, your elitism, your rudeness and most of all your amazing and much envied intellects.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 24 Aug 2012
Topic: Consciousness

I think that the half dozen Seers here on the forums should take a break...you know who you are: the Cream that has risen to the the top with your snidery, your bon mots, your cleverness etc. Why not take a break , maybe a month or two? and give us, the inferiors a chance to muddle through a bit, to go astray.-= Find another entertainment for a while. You've established how brilliant you are here, we have all seen it and we will welcome you back I'm sure after our dreary, polite, uninteresting dialogues have gotten us nowhere... but take a break, go outside, workout if you still are able to, whip your dog, discipline you grandchildren whatever you do when you're not incessently posting here and then, return,and thrill us all again with your sagacity, nastiness, elitism and your rudeness but most of all with your amazing, incisive and much ballyhooed intellects.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 13 May 2013
Topic: idea of building a new k website

I think that the idea of anonymity here would be interesting and perhaps it could be tried here. It would be ideas attacking ideas but without the images formed over time of the names of the usual attackers. The relationship with Krishnamurtis' writings and talks is very 'personal' and I think that we are all in the same boat as regards the idea of being "free from the known". Cultivating awareness is perhaps all we can do...awareness without judgement and without expectation. I don't know.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 13 May 2013
Topic: idea of building a new k website

Then on the other hand, "A confident man is a dead human being". So if that is true and I wish to not be dead, I must expose that "confident" self to relationships that not only do not affirm that confidence but throw it into question. And then if that confidence is shaken,even 'bruised', I must remember why I put myself in that position as the retaliation takes place. Given that we can't see ourselves unless some disturbance takes place in us (and fortunately that happens quite often)that turmoil affords perhaps, a glimpse. Those are the valuable moments: watching my self scurrying for rock to avoid the sunlight. I don't know. Someone gave me a Rumi quote once that I think refers to this: "Be thankful not for the friend's tenderness but for his tyranny, so the arrogant beauty in you can become a lover that weeps." Plenty of "tyranny" here among the hierarchy that has formed and plenty of 'confidence' too.(and plenty of those little smiley faces.)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 13 May 2013
Topic: idea of building a new k website

Thank you for the reminder...how soon we forget!

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 13 May 2013
Topic: idea of building a new k website

I don't think of "cultivating awareness" as getting better at it, of having it become more frequent. More like a gift, a glimpse... Say you have to undergo a medical procedure that is rather serious. You are dreading it and imagining every possible scenario and you are in fear. And your thought is trying to imagine scenarios in order to escape that fear, to be rid of it. And then you remember that, "thought IS fear" and you get a glimpse of this, thought trying to end the conflict that it itself is creating because you want to return to a more comfortable mental state... So it's not something, this awareness, that can be "cultivated",like a plant say, but it comes and shows you something about your self, the conditioned response and then it's gone. Something like that? And also there is maybe a 'valueing' the idea of awareness and perhaps you intentionally 'try' to be aware of yourself, your thought, your body, sensations, sights and sounds etc. That is a kind of cultivating which come from thinking ,rightly or wrongly, that it is better to be 'conscious' than always asleep. Why? Because we've seen the kind of mischief and mess and misery we can create in the world by being 'asleep'? And perhaps we'd like to be Krishnamurti but without his heavy schedule!

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 13 May 2013
Topic: idea of building a new k website

"The Post is the Poster"

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 13 May 2013
Topic: idea of building a new k website

Yes it would be interesting to just read the thought without having a 'hat' on it.