Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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pavani rao's Forum Activity | 553 posts in 3 forums


Forum: General Discussion Wed, 22 Feb 2012
Topic: ANGER

Hi Peng

Just going through you topic , few of the thoughts it arouse , I would like to share .

Anger for me is a powerful emotion , some times inherent in one’s nature , bursting out in bouts , may be due to various reasons , understanding of which with patience and attention may lead to its own revelations .

When we are talking of anger which is present out of intelligence and out of love which exists in relation between two people .......expressed and guided propely can bring changes in another , and has the potential to set a new direction ......The same anger if it has’nt met well or conveyed , or sorted out well by both the affected parties , may turn into indifference , which is not a healthy sign .......

Then there is this anger of the poor man which is coupled with despair against the oppressive , repressive nature of the system which takes the shape of helplessness ......and also there is this anger of slightly well to do , so called elite class of the society , seeing the deep rooted corruption , violence in the society , yet mired in his / her own personal world feels incapable of doing anything , turns the anger into apathy .......

Well if we go further .....the present changes , change of regimes we see in the Arab world is’nt it the result of the collective anger of the people bursted forth in the form of uprsing against the oppressive , despotic rule of the rulers , in one voice wanting to have peace , justice and democracy .......

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 25 Apr 2012
Topic: Today's Quote

It is very good of you, sirs, to have invited me and I thank you for listening to me.

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day | Apr 25, 2012

Don't we all think we need to learn so much from this man and from his work ?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 04 May 2012
Topic: khuda

Hi Ravi

Looking at that Ghalib's couplet  I  don't know why  I am  reminded of Sufi saints and Sufi music . The one Sufi  musical concert I was very lucky to have attended gave me the taste of that soul searching  renditions of  the divine Sufi world    , transported every one present in the auditorium to a different world .  Here  I would like to share few couplets ,

the   English translations , I could get from Google ,  though very far from the original  versions  ( in the sense of capturing all the nuances of the mystical  poets and their poetry .  ) 

Inside this new love, die. Your way begins on the other side. Become the sky. Take an axe to the prison wall. Escape. Walk out like someone suddenly born into color. Do it now. You're covered with a thick cloud. Slide out the side. Die, and be quiet. Quiteness is the surest sign that you've died. Your old life was a frantic running from silence.

The speechless full moon comes out now.

      Rumi - The Essential Rumi - Coleman Barks

In the dead of night, a Sufi began to weep. He said, "This world is like a closed coffin, in which  We are shut and in which, through our ignorance, We spend our lives in folly and desolation. When Death comes to open the lid of the coffin, Each one who has wings will fly off to Eternity, But those without will remain locked in the coffin. So, my friends, before the lid of this coffin is taken off, Do all you can to become a bird of the Way to God; Do all you can to develop your wings and your feathers."

      Farid ud Din Attar,  translation by Andrew Harvey and Eryk Hanut - 'Perfume of the  Desert' 

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 09 Jun 2012
Topic: And the same idiotic question, "But how?"

Hi Dhirendra & the participants of this thread

Some musings and heart felt questions I would like to share , in true spirit of inquiry , which for a change seems to be happening where in mutual listening and sharing is taking place , ( quite contrary to usual using of brash and harsh language , and opinionated impressions about people is being carried out , which appears very much like male bastion , and one just could’nt dare participate in ..... ) Well sorry for that remark , but it just could’nt be helped .

First and foremost it always surprises me to no end when people give such extraordinary importance to .....ME . I , and MYSELF , and have endless discussions on ending of SELF .and in a way limiting this marvellous man’s extraordinary teaching to not more than reams and reams of unending discussions on THOUGHT . In the span of 6 decades of his tireless efforts K addressed so many deep issues all so much related to the human beings and human existence , like .... LIVING , DYING , LOVE , INTELLIGENCE , COMPASSION , GOODNESS , AUSTERITY , MATURITY , CHOICELESS AWARENESS , AND FLOWERING ......are just to mention few .....

O.k let us examine this topic of this thread , Thought , and ending of it ......Is’nt everything related to understanding that very basic urge itself , why it is so in the first place ? As a form of an escape , or trying to find some utopian state ? Even if it is there .... Has’t he mentioned in innumerable instances , self knowledge is like an endless river , it is understood in relationships , in action , which is very much our day to day living ......which incidentally is talked so less of , in these forums .....

Here may I also share in all honesy and in humility , when we start leading our lives in utter watchfulness of ourselves and everything around ..... choicelessly aware of both the inner and the outer world , not eliminating and excluding any thing ......and at the same time without having any goal , as more out of a habbit which automatically becomes , or becomes our inner nature perhaps after some time .......this whole movement of life , which includes the entire humanity , this beautiful earth , and all those marvellous creatures , one feels really and in true sense feels connected to everything ......and this journey in itself is such a beauty , no metaphysical discussions , and no dry dialogues can capture it . One really and truly and in true spirit needs to live it to understand it .

Thanks for a patient hearing and participating .

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Jun 2012
Topic: And the same idiotic question, "But how?"

ganesan balachandran wrote: well .i told you know, earth is propped by truth and sky is propped up by sun.

Hi g.b

The morning vela people or shall I say the serious people ......

Whatever that may mean your above statement , Well tell me in the same spirit as of last time that we the female fraternity are much ahead of you all :-)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Jun 2012
Topic: And the same idiotic question, "But how?"

ganesan balachandran wrote: together thrust toward us gain, and the victory prize, and wealth.

Well g.b you have taken quite a long time to come out with an answer , may be you were searching for this quote and translation ( otherwise I would'nt have understood any way ) , and that is such a beautiful one , thanks . In a lighter sense the simple answer like " yes Her Majesty " would have been sufficient , as I did last time . You see some times one gets into these chirpy moods , thats all , nothing serious .

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Jun 2012
Topic: And the same idiotic question, "But how?"

dhirendra singh wrote: I think woman is nature's best creation, man is just supplementary to her, she is nucleus.

dhirendra singh wrote: Women are magical, by my experience at least I think so.

Hi Dhirendra

I think those are the best /sensible sentiments uttered by you in the whole of the thread . Good going .

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Jun 2012
Topic: God

Paul Davidson wrote: A truly religious mind (in the sense, re-ligere - one that brings itself together) is one that is discerning in approaching all sources of accumulated knowledge, valuing insight rather than authority. But the authority of insights, above all, must be doubted.

Hi paul

Welcome back . Those words regarding the religious mind are very well formed . If we can broaden the meaning a bit further a religious mind , that lives in the present , that processes all information it receives , along with all sources of accumulated knowledge does completely dependent on insight , and not on authority .

But I wonder if there is any authority involved in insight ......Insight is not a static and stagnant phenomenon . It comes into picture as long as there is this continual movement of observing , learning , and if we can use this word evolving in the being .

( we ll one is just wondering . )

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Jun 2012
Topic: God

Paul Davidson wrote: But if that new thing becomes another fixed point, authority is re-established from that centre.

Paul Davidson wrote: Thought always finds its freedom within a structure

Paul Davidson wrote: Some believe in God, others in K, even more so in Global Warming.

Well Paul

Thanks for going into an elaborate discussion and bringing a different perspective . Well , precisely thats what I too want to say , it depends on us is’nt it ? whether we remain stuck in either one belief or the other .... it may be GOD or K or could be global warming .....How far one could let go of all beliefs and able to face the things as they are ......? As there is no end to this journey .... May be in that continuous watchfulness , ever absorbing , processing , observing , constant keeping a check on oneself there is a possibility of some thing new happening ........ new insights occuring ......

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Jun 2012
Topic: And the same idiotic question, "But how?"

Paul Davidson wrote: Anyhow, enough of all this, I have work to do. I have to wash the clothes, dry and iron them, do the dishes, clean the house, buy the food and cook a lovely meal for my wife and slip into something sexy (and I don't mean 'step on the tube of lubricant') all before she gets home from the golf-course or I'll be for it!

Well I don't want to say much in this respect , though it looks what has been started as a light conversation , seemed to be hotting up . But Pual I liked this part of your post . Now I too have to go for a long walk with my husband who is already getting impatient that I'm not paying attention to him .

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 12 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

Klaas O wrote: I find gaining inner calm and getting more sensitive to the beauty of life takes continuous effort. Krishnamurti's insights help but also other wisdom from personal growth literature, spirituality and psychology. It's hard work but I see the progress. A radical transformation is always great but I'm ok with progress step by step.

Paul Davidson wrote: So, decide for yourself, but if you don't put your whole self into it you will be the sham you want to become.

Hi Klaas & Paul

Those are the beatiful words to be seen early in the morning when one opened the lap top .Klaus I for one completely agree with you . That inner work is a continuous effort , and very truly you pointed out K is better understood most of the time when we leave him and go into the real world , and incorporate the world spirituality , literature and psychology , as there is beauty , depth ,and enormous wisdom too in this world , but that processing instrument which is called our brain , it gets strength , energy and new perspective when we incorporate the tools which K gave us , choiceless awareness , continual observation of one self in relation to every thing around .....And here if one can add yes there will be perceptible progress too one can see in oneself , and the jorney will be very enriching if there is no desire and goal at all ..... and the journey simply for its own sake ....

Paul

Those are very interesting perceptions , and if I may give a compliment to you , thanks to be around , you are very much needed in these forums .

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 12 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

lidlo lady wrote: and a waste of time...but what else do you have to do?

Hi Lidlo

Its definitely not a waste of time . Yes one does'nt have any thing else to do . Having embraced this fine teaching many years ago , not to have some kind of Transformation , or Liberation , or wanting to get into some kind of Process , but just out of sheer love , awe and wonder of it , which very much still is the case . May be try doing it , its really worth all the effort , after all having lived half of our lives ..... if not for any thing definitely one gets lot of harmony , peace and joy within oneself and with people around .

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 12 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

lidlo lady wrote: Sorry, but K's "teaching" wasn't instruction or a recipe for happiness, and "sheer love, awe and wonder" have nothing to do with work, so what are you talking about? You sound drugged.

Well Lidlo

Intoxicated would have been a preferable word , if it had been used . By the way thanks for sounding normal , not in your ususal lethal , pungent , moods though one feels strongly that you have a gift of a sharp intellect and a quick tongue .....( frankly speaking for which I had been never comfortable in addressing your threads . )May I also add , these gifts some times may cause hindrance in one’s spiritual journey which demand s immense patience and integration of inner self .

What have you understood by that word WORK . For me very specifically when I faced this word ( commentaries on living in one of the series there is a chapter on it ) , it was understood that work is what we do with ourselves and with our lives ......Actually is’nt the entire Teaching all about that ? Undertanding that psychological self which gets revealed in relationships from moment to moment observation of our activities , and ourselves .......?That journey may take months , years , but when it is an on going process , just being aware of all those strong emotions , like Anger , Greed , Desire , Fear , just being aware of them as they arise in our day to day interactions with people , and that conditioning from our child hood , by parents , teachers , and later on by society ....just by choicelessly being aware , neither condemning , nor approving ......Well all that is part of Work .

Coming to peace , joy and harmony part , they are the by products of this marvellous journey .... and in a way without having them in the first place no serious inquiry begins .
By the way the word intoxicated might be a compliment in the sense one is intoxicated with Life , with Living and with the Creator and the Creation .

( For most women in India , especially to people of old school of thought , liquor and drugs are total anathema , which one never tasted , and not even it runs in my family , where we eat only vegetarian food . )

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 12 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

Ravi Seth wrote: As far lady seemed to be drugged, one only observes the lady is just beginning to hone her skills at writing at a 'k' net.Give her some margin,lid.

Yes Ravi I'm learning to hone my skills ..... Don't you think we all need to continuously keep doing it ? Learning and understanding about ourselves ?

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 13 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

Ravi Seth wrote: A river irrigates the land around itself .Many live by it.At the same time it destroys everything around in floods.It sustains , it destroys.There is neither punya ( virtue) for the good it does nor papa(sin) attached with it when it destroys.The flow of river is kirya.... . moving without self.

The Wholeness of Life - Brockwood September 1977

K: No, observe. Observe the tent, observe the colour round you, the shirts and the dresses around you - how do you observe it? What is observation? You observe through the eye, don't you? Now can you observe without moving the eye? Because if you move the eye the whole operation of the brain comes into being. I won't go into this because you will turn it into some kind of mystical, nonsensical thing, mysterious and you know, occult and all the rest of that. Please, there is something mysterious in the world, hidden things which you cannot possibly find unless you have laid the foundation of righteousness - to live correctly, truthfully, without conflict, then you have all kinds of powers. But if you start seeking powers of various kinds then you are lost, you become somewhat neurotic.

Hi Ravi & gb

After explaining the words of kriya and karma in relation to River and the very nature of river , can you people go into explaining the same words with relation to human life and human being especially taking into account the last 4 lines from the above K 's text ?

Thanks.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 13 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

ganesan balachandran wrote: we want to go far away:)

ganesan balachandran wrote: Karumam(duty) and karmam(dirty). what happen to you pavani? gb

Hi gb

What is this leaving the field so soon ? :-)How can you say you don't know sanskrit ?By the way I hav'nt heard karmam meaning being dirty . Nothing happened to me so far g.b . Why are you asking ?

Hey but don't you think this is an important issue and all of us need to express our inputs .... may be Paul also can join in as the above K's text is courtesy his effort in another thread which gave me idea to raise this issue ....

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 13 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

Paul Davidson wrote: We cannot go physically far. We have tried that. We have travelled the globe but always we take ourselves with us. There is no escaping yourself through travel. The impression of newness quickly fades.

Dear Paul

That is very true with all of us . How we keep searching for euphoric and utopian worlds outside ourselves , wanting to escape from ourselves and our lives ,only to come back to the same things ....But one feels as long as we remain sensitive human beings , even if we make mistakes but learn from our mistakes , and basically remain good at heart .... Don't you think it's still worth all the effort , as the journey is important more than the destination . Well this topic certainly takes lot of dwelling upon , but excuse me , as evening time happens to be my family time .... I'll come back to it later .

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 13 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

Hi Ravi That's a very beautiful picture. Thanks for bringing in . Well sorry for those remarks which were made last time , kindly forgive me they were done in just light hearted humor . Nothing serious .

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

ganesan balachandran wrote: i really don't know either hindi or sanskrit and i am missing them.

Hi gb

This is a suprise that you don't know sanskrit , as I think I already said . How come you quote so profusely from the sanskrit texts ? Must be reading english translations , but what ever may be the case that is tremendous and a unique effort . May be one day you can start a thread on this topic , that K is to a great extent the essence of all our sacred texts , explained so clearly to suit to the world people . Krama in Telugu also means death rituals , I think Ravi explained well the meaning of the words karma and kriya already , which in Telugu also means more or less the same .

By the way *i was watching so less preference you give to my posts , you came last to address , after finishing your more important vela . is'nt it ? :-) *

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

ganesan balachandran wrote: K must have just suggested to see the sacredness, beauty,the mystery and the sense of preservation that is all and not to hold on to it or hemay be continuing it in his own way.

Well g.b this time excused , as you have made it up with 3 good explanations . Regarding the name part its o.k which ever way one is known , it only serves the purpose of physical identity and causes less confusion , that's all I think . Those above lines are really beautiful , you summarised it well . By the way thanks for the compliment regarding language part , you better start doing more often , that is giving compliments to me . A deal ? :-) ( by for now , I have to go )

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Jun 2012
Topic: Krishnamurti and rejection of politics: what's his alternative?

Paul Davidson wrote: The arduous slope requires an ardent spirit, Pavani, and an open heart.

Hi Paul

As we were discussing the other day regarding goodness , sensitivity ..... the two major issues ..... it is understood that these things vary from individual to individual , depending upon different circumstances and different cultures one is born into ..... well recently it occurred to me it all boils down to US . That is , how we treat ourselves , first and foremost are we being good to ourselves , considerate , compassionate and accommodative to our various needs ? Are we sensitive to our body mind and spirit ? It is definitely not that way of looking at oneself in self centered , self absorbed , and self indulgent way . But unless and until we view our selves and our lives with a modicum of goodness , sensitivity , dignity it deserves can we extend it to the other human being ? May be it is imperative that we do have to have a good understanding of our past actions , why we behaved the way we did , their might have been wrong actions / wrong deeds done depending upon the necessity of the situation , but later on did we forgive ourselves ? And it also very much to do with the gratitude part , are we greateful to the creator for this precious gift of life ? Yes all this and much more may explain the meanings of sensitivity and the goodness for which we were trying to give definition .

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Jun 2012
Topic: Death

lidlo lady wrote: we don't know why we need to know we are mortal.

lidlo lady wrote: All that prevents this liberating "death" is the extent to which you are addicted to knowledge.

Hi Lidlo Very insightful post . Are’nt life and death , the two sides of the same coin ?Unless and until there is dying there is no renewal . Every thing that comes into the world dies , in fact death is one ultimate reality . This addiction to knowledge , can it be examined ? Has it been there out of conditioning , out of habbit , or as a matter of identity ..... or is it due to some form of escape , mind has projected just to avoid seeing the reality .....? Can all these things be questioned into ......May be in unravelling this entire process lies the answers ......and the dropping away of that addiction takes place effortlessly and naturally .....?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 15 Jun 2012
Topic: Death

lidlo lady wrote: What we're dealing with is the human condition. If it interests you, you'll go into it entirely on your own.

lidlo lady wrote: is to reveal your K conditioning

Life and life’s happenings being extremely dynamic , which are in constant flux , are under no one’s control . By the time one get used to taking care one set of problems , in no time one realises there are other set of problems waiting to be taken care of . That is the very essence and movement of life . No teacher and no book comes to our rescue , we have to live our lives , solve our problems entirely on our own . K had never been a panacea and offered no magic wand ...., but if one understands him clearly in the true spirit of the text there comes a major shift and change in our assessing of life’s situations , and by correlating , assimilating the teaching to real life situations one realises the broadening of one’s perspective .

I for one could not understand the term K conditioning . Yes he reiterated ample times not to make him a crutch . He also pointed , once the understanding is there the teaching is not of his but becomes ours . ( well I cannot quote from where and in which book , we can always verify , after those initial years of intense reading I never kept any book at home , nor read him continuously except off and on , one odd book in later years )

Understanding K is a tremendous , unending , and a continuous process which requires constant vigil and watching of ourselves , our set patterns of behaviour , the people , and life around .

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 15 Jun 2012
Topic: Death

ganesan balachandran wrote: excellent Smt.Pavani rao.

Hi gb

I think after those serious thoughts one needs some comic ( figuratively ) relief .Thanks for providing it . By the way can you bring the text which is mentioned in the above post ? Sorry for giving work , but at the same time lets hope Lidlo would'nt have objection in reading our banter . He sounds pretty serious most of the time .

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 16 Jun 2012
Topic: Death

ganesan balachandran wrote: the whole.

Hi gb

That's great work done and really great help .:-) , How come the field is empty since morning ? or is something wrong with my side ?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 17 Jun 2012
Topic: Death

RICK LEIN wrote: My dear sister..search your feelings..you know ..don't you?

Yes dear brother , very well said .

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 17 Jun 2012
Topic: Do I teach or do I learn?

Hi Dhirendra

Very nice , sensible and intelligent post .

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 26 Jun 2012
Topic: A stroll in a day..... a reflection of the mind....past, present,&future.

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote: ,he was prompted by the notion that he was under strong influence of JK's teachings which almost redued his postings to that of parroting the JK's words.At this stage it was decided that take a long break,and stop all the activity concerned the JK.For 15 days net itelf was not opened

Hi Arjun

That is a sincere and an honest post indeed .... how important it is to take intermittent breaks from everything , from all the books and reading etc , in fact if one has to share something honestly here , K is better understood when one goes out into the open leaving everything behind ..... life and life’s situations , there are no better teachers if only one is willing to listen ....Well seeing my name in your post prompted me to address you ( feminine vanity ! :- ) though we never directly interacted with each other .... I can say your absence has been noticed , more so at the recent Retreat which was held at Naimism , I thought since we both are from the same place , you might attend it , the work shop / retreat was very well conducted by Mr Kishore Khairnar , good discussions were held , watched some nice videos of K .

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 27 Jun 2012
Topic: The most dominant conditioning

lidlo lady wrote: Having something to embrace and hold fast to is of greater value to them than exposing the fear and uncertainty that drives them.

Fear and uncertainity , in fact one realizes are part of our being . There is no escape from them . Is there any certainity in life at all ? Does any one of us know what’s going to happen to us in the next moment ? or to our dear and near loved ones ?Is’nt there that gnawing fear sometimes grips one’s being of something going wrong with one’s far away aged parents whom one adores...... or to one’s children about whom one feels responsible and at the same time have these feelings of protective air about them , fully well realizing that how futile it can be ...... At the same time there is this awareness that life has much more meaning to it than to simply wasting it away in all these illusionary and imaginary fears .....This entire movement of living ....What do we call it ? Is’nt thought taking its place ? Neither condemning , nor approving , nor trying to escape ....but accepting , acknowledging the way things are ......

Well one is wondering....

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 30 Jun 2012
Topic: Statements of Non-Belief

Sun Hand wrote: I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT INSIGHT COMES FROM OUTSIDE THOUGHT

The mind which is deeply inclined towards knowing the answers either about oneself or about human condition or about the very secret behind human existence is not caught in words . Either of K’ s or of one’s own or of any body’s . The ability to see in the very first place , to be able to grasp the intensity , depth and immensity of what this man K is all about .... in other words to have complete faith , trust and belief in what he is saying , and if one can use the term of K , it is called “ Maturity “ .The words will remain on the superficial level until and unless they are understood , completely , thoroughly in their total essence .

Well when once that understanding is set in , the next step is how far one can go into that journey ... It is not to prove to any body , or convince or to get a mileage out of this awareness , and definitely not to compulsively write in the forums , argue , fight , quarrel but entirely for one’s own sake . The journey is certainly very arduous , it all depends on how far we can let go of ourselves ..... There are certainly more pressing issues like relentlessly being watchful of that image making / problem creating / in myriad ways wanting to escape into any thing but not to remain and accept oneself , one’s condition , one’s inadequacies , and one’s way of life / that whole mechanism of ourselves and our lives ......rather than simply arguing endlessly about few words and few issues .

Thought is a very powerful tool and may be perhaps only precise / concise instrument we have , as a tool which can gather information , interact , communicate and to function normally in this world . But the processing unit which is our brain , it needs certain amount of order , and clarity to be able to grasp the depth of any given situation , which comes with deep understanding and awareness of oneself and everything around , either about people , or things etc . Here one may add the understanding which is in totality not is in self centered / self absorbed and self enclosing way .... But that which includes the poverty , the misery , the extreme callousness to life and people which has become more of a norm in our present day world .... all that and much more .... When that total / complete understanding of any given situation is there , thought takes its place .... may be then we call it insight or intelligence or compassion or love ......

( In a lighter vein if I may add here I hope there are not many spelling / grammatical mistakes in the above post , if at all any kindly they be overlloked . :)