Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Ramesh G's Forum Activity | 164 posts in 9 forums


Forum: The Sacred Tue, 09 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Krishnamurti's statements on consciousness and its contents have touched me deeply. I'm tempted to say his is the last word on consciousness, but I won't for fear that I will be called a K fanatic. To me consciousness manifests as desire, fear, envy etc , and also as the person who experiences these emotions -- that is, the 'me'. I see that I haven't earned the right to call myself an 'I' because everything that I ascribe to that 'I' is second hand and unoriginal. Coming back to the main issue, if some of us feel that only the stream of consciousness runs through us, lives and dies and that we don't really exist, maybe we can talk about overcoming the fear of death. We can create a wonderful humanity.I mean it seriously, my friends.

Forum: The Sacred Wed, 10 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Without me, consciousness as fear, desire, ambition and all other emotions and thoughts will go on just as we go on when someone we know dies, after feeling sad for a couple of days for that person. So instead of focusing on the particular me, if we shift our focus to consciousness as a whole we will feel connected to others and have a sense of being alive for the first time. Here others become vitally important at least when we are not tormented by personal problems and personal concerns. My challenge to myself is this: to listen to you all keeping the personality in abeyance.

Forum: Insights Thu, 11 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

My honest answer to your question on truth-seeking is this: Some 25 years ago I started my search without knowing anything. After those fruitful years of struggle I've come to a point now: I KNOW that I really don't know anything. But the situation is not hopeless; I'm happy in the knowledge of my ignorace. One thing I can say with confidence: the moment you seek truth, you are a step away from it.

Sahni I'm sorry to say that Love and Compassion are mere words. Even without those words we can live a dynamic life.

Forum: Insights Thu, 11 Jun 2009
Topic: Commentaries on living

With some interest I started looking at people today on the train while going to office and on the road while taking a stroll. None of them looked around; they seemed to be immersed in their own worlds. In them I saw myself-- myself being my desires, my anxieties and my mechanicalness. As I looked my interest in them deepened. I feel that in looking at others intensively, relentlessly, and more importantly effortlessly, we liberate ourselves from human consciousness.

Forum: Insights Fri, 12 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Sahni,

To your direct and pointed question I have no answer! But I can indirectly and vaguely respond to you. Almost all people around me seem to like me (I am not lying!) so I think it's an indication that I have an iota of love in me. Friend, I'm not opposed to the feeling of love, I'm against love and compassion as concepts. I feel sensitivity at a given moment is more important than search for truth.

Forum: The Sacred Fri, 12 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Stephen,

I think there's no death to consciousness, but the individual can step out of it.

Forum: The Sacred Fri, 12 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Stephen Smalley wrote: What if the personality is allowed to flower, without interference? Is there an issue of controlling the personality? The problem of control perpetuates the personality, doesn't it? How does one listen while one is occupied with this problem of the personality? Is one listening when one is focused on oneself?

Stephen I don't know anything about allowing the personality to flower.All I can say is that I and my personality are one and the same. Of course the issue of controlling the personality is a fundamental and an age-old issue. That issue is the root of all other issues, isn't it? I'm a fearful personality, but I don't want to be that; I'm a jealous and violent personality, but I want to be something different -- is this not the cry of all humans?

When one is occupied with something one can't listen. How is the listening to happen?

Forum: The Sacred Fri, 12 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

jean-m girard wrote: Consciousness does not manifest as desire, fear, envy?.. Consciousness is the knowing of you, in a desire consciousness will see it desire, if we have a fear, the consciousness will know it has a fear, consciousness mean to see, to see your self in fear, in joy, in every aspect of your being.

Jean, I'm sorry you can't separate consciousness from any of the above emotions.Traditional philosophies may give higer place to consciousness. I don't deny that. When you come to K all will be turned upside down, mercilessly. But at the end healing does take place.

Forum: The Sacred Sat, 13 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Jean & Stephen,

Our discussion is becoming lively. Desire and consciousness are one as long as the one who's conscious of desire operates on it to get a desired result. So the question is: how do I approach desire when I become conscious of it? Do I feel bad about it, do I want to overcome it or fulfill it? The moment I'm conscious of desire and label the feeling as desire, I, the consciousness, am part of that desire which is the content.

If we can look at this whole process without becoming cynical and without burdening the already heavy consciousness, devoid of even the little trace of this world ideas, we become Truly Aware. That Awareness, however momentary it is, is beyond all consciousness. Someone may say that this Awarness is also a word, a creation of consciousness. It maybe so, but there's no end to such questions. If the word comes from the heart, it's no more a word; it is the thing itself.

Hope I'm with you two.

Forum: Insights Sat, 13 Jun 2009
Topic: Commentaries on living

That's a delightful writing from Mr Shukla. A beatiful prose, a beatifuI poetry and a beatiful insight too. I enjoyed it thoroughly. On that note I would like to share with you all what I felt yesterday.

With a troubled mind, but with eyes open, I was walking toward my office. The mind was troubled because it was seeking the meaning of life and could not find it. At that moment I saw two youth running, intent on catching a bus. I also saw a poor salesman carrying his wares ( I don't exactly remember what he was carrying) eager to sell them to make some money. Maybe to feed his children or to pay the rent (These are my afterthoughts). After I passed him by I saw a beggar sitting hesitantly stretching his hand to receive money. Upon entering the office, I saw a bird flying beyond the earthly limits.

Can I say I'm the seeker of life's meaning, the guys who were running to catch the bus, that poor salesman, that dreamy beggar and also the bird that was flying? I don't know when I forgot my trouble and those people I saw.

Troubles may come, but Life is beautiful.

Forum: The Sacred Sat, 13 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

When the 'me' is not, there's no consciousness as we know it, but only a pure perception.

Forum: Insights Sat, 13 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Randal Shacklett wrote: Sorry, you are imagining a difference in thought. Thought is a stored memory. Whether technical or personal, it is a stone cold dead thing. The richness of imagery you spoke of is simply a clever manipulation of those images of past events, whether technical or personal, which we call personality. It is a superficial personal/selfish thing. Yet it is what we worship about ourselves.

I don't know why we should condemn thought or ourselves. By calling the personality superficial or selfish we don't solve the problem; we only aggravate what we condemn.

Forum: Insights Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Keshni Sahni wrote: It is simply the facing of the fact of what humanity is and the damage perpetrated, without turning it all into an experience to be either avoided or condemned. We are the world - we are responsible. Who else is going to see this if we do not?

I'm 100 per cent with you.

Forum: Insights Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Randal Shacklett: I call only for an end to everlasting human competitive conflict. I neither condemn nor promote the human capacity for self aggrandizment.

I feel relieved, thanks.

Forum: The Sacred Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Patricia Hemingway: Is that a theory or a reality? That is the question I would ask myself in this instance.

Thanks Patricia for the question. This morning I remembered the statement I made yesterday, and asked the question myself: Do I know what pure perception is? There's no point in making such big statements without really living them in daily life. All this ruminations happened while I was taking a walk. At the very moment I started looking, looking and looking. Life looked very ordinary. Nothing special I could see. Same people, same action. There's nothing new under the sun. But out of the ordinariness of life, I've got a gem which I would like to share with you all; it's fresh discovery for me. The discovery is this: hidden in the ordinariness is the non-ordinary. Because we think Life is ordinary, we don't look, and because we never look, Life is always going to be ordinary. So we need newer sensations. Looking is the key, I feel. Thanks once again.

Forum: Serious Debate Sun, 14 Jun 2009
Topic: You are the World

Randal,

Don't bother about other people offering opinions. It's their problem. Are you stuck deeply? Do you thing you are the world or someone separate from it? Your postings seem to suggest that you are apart from the world.

In my case I'm very much part of the world or I'm the world. I tell you how: If someone hurts me I want to hit them back. I react heavily. This is what most people I know are doing. So I can't claim to be different from them, though in my ignorance, after reading K, I used to blast people for their ignorace little knowing what was in store in for me in my subconscious and unconscious mind.

Forum: The Sacred Wed, 17 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Patricia Hemingway wrote: Dear Ramesh. Do I hear hope in what you say? Can one look without turning it into experience I wonder? And do we 'need newer sensations'? Or is it simply a matter of staying with what is?

Dear Patricia, I put it wrongly. Instead of using the word need, I should have said 'seek'. We don't need extra sensations, if we know how to look simply at life or what is.

Yes, Looking is the great hope.

Forum: Insights Wed, 17 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Randal Shacklett wrote: "can we be free....?". That is a very interesting question. Who is "we"?

By pondering over your question who is 'we' time and again, I think I may get answers to life's riddles or because of its inability to answer your question, the brain may come to a state of not knowing.

Forum: Serious Debate Wed, 17 Jun 2009
Topic: You are the World

Randal Shacklett wrote: But I am not part of the insanity, no, sorry to disappoint you with that answer.

Had you said it otherwise I would have been disappointed. We can communicate only when we are at the same time, same level and same intensity. Are we ready for that kind of communication or do we believe in levels?

Forum: The Sacred Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

jean-m girard wrote: Stephen Smalley wrote:

jean-m girard wrote: is consciousness only the result of the accumulation of the content

Is consciousness time?

Yes consciousness is time. Time is thougt, desire, fear. And the desire and the longing to be free of time as consciousness is still part of consciousness.

<pre><code> At the end frustration remains, a crow caws, I tremble in fear. Light at the end of the tunnel! Forgetfulness of my story happens for a moment. And Silence reigns Supreme. For a moment. </code></pre>
Forum: Insights Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Randal Shacklett wrote: But the mind will seek closure. It wants to be sure, finality. It wants the information it is processing, to give it the meaning of life. But can it ever? Can the thinking system, ever do that?

The mind can ponder "not-knowing". My thinking ponders a lack of information. Adding, subtracting, organizing information/knowledge. That is what it does. But is any of that the same, as a mind that comes before a phenomenon(life), without it's arsenal of escapes, that cannot be added and subtracted(the un-known/know-able)?

Hi Randal,

The Unknown/Unknowable, I'm sure, won't take sadistic pleasure in keeping us, the striving minds, the suffering minds. in the dark. K has given us the map of human minds so that we can know our deceptions. If we clearly know that and not use that knowledge to make Truth unattainable and if we genuinely .....

<pre><code> **Ask, ye shall receive.** </code></pre>
Forum: Insights Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Keshni Sahni wrote: Ramesh, Self is a group of fragments or I. Self-protective instinct is one of the I elements. It is designed to continue. But there is an ending to I. It is not designed/created to continue forever.

Keshni until we give birth to an 'I' beyond the mind with its incessant chattering, the self will continue. This new I is our unshakeable Individuality, the timeless Spirit.

Forum: Serious Debate Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: You are the World

Randal Shacklett wrote: We exchange information/belief/opinion, feel good about our polite little circle of like minded seekers, and we're done.

Randal I'm serious. You may be a real master. I won't be jealous of you. My request to you is this: Can you come down from your Zen master-like position, and have some compassion for us and help us grow?

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: science, the I and ego,

Dear Phil and others,

I don't wish to be left alone so I'm butting in. Though it's been hard for my brain (both left and right!) to follow most of what you were discussing, it wants to take part in your discussions because it knows the words I, ego, consciousness etc..

I have no way of contributing to the scientific aspect of your dialogues. But still I have question. If it's relevant please share. My question is: Does silence have any role in our dialogues? What happens to the brain when there's silence?

Forum: Show 'n' Tell Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Ground

rachMiel ... wrote: does there exist a permanent, absolute ground?

Hi rachMiel,

When I put this question to myself I hit a blank wall. My usual response to this ultimate question is a belief or scepticism or a sense of bewilderment. I won't say I live by bread alone; some deeper faith does operate in me. But still.. one is not so sure of things.

Instead of breaking my head over that which is ungraspable, I have found out a new approach. See if I make sense. Can we put a question about the Ground and seek no answer in the usual sense. That means no hope, no desire, no frustration, no pleading, no belief, no disbelief...

What is that state mind?

Forum: The Sacred Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Consciousness

Stephen Smalley wrote: Is time then stored in the brain as memory, as knowledge? We are getting into deep waters here!

The human consciousness wants a safe future, is afraid that unpleasant past will recur in future and wants to avoid it, and also seeks the pleasures of the past to repeat themselves in future. All our present is a passage from past to future. All this is time, isn't it? Never for a moment we are out of time. A pause in that consciousness is the need of the hour. How can we create that pause?

Forum: Insights Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Is there an ending to search?

Patricia Hemingway wrote: The self cannot conceive of letting go its greatest 'creation' - the 'I' - so it thinks if it can just put on another coat and hat............. then it will still be an 'I' - but one 'without its incessant chattering'.

What's more - that self is conditioned to believe that this is 'enlightenment'. Just create a 'Higher Self' - (with capitol letters! - and a new coat and hat.)

I think we need another K to come and break us free of that conditioning born out of reading and listening to former K. Why are we so allergic to 'I'. If we wrangle over words, we will never touch the depth of our being.

Patricia, you are logically very right. My feeling is that you are pouncing on words which is a sad thing. We are badly conditioned by words. You are an I and I am an I. Problems do not arise at this level.

Forum: Show 'n' Tell Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: Ground

Linda Thorlakson wrote: The problem for me (with the potential existence of an ?ultimate unchanging truth?) is that, the moment I buy into that, I buy into the idea that my truth must be your?s and vice versa. Therefore, if our truths are different, I feel threatened by your?s. If our truths are different, one of us must be right and the other must be wrong.

On the other hand, if we do not search for any ?ultimate unchanging truth,? but rather just examine every here-and-now for falsities, what we are left with is the truth. What I am left with in any given moment is not necessarily what you are left with . . . but that?s OK. What I am left with in this moment is not necessarily what I will be left with in the next or was left with in the last, but that?s OK.

Linda, well said. That's great feeling.

Forum: Serious Debate Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: You are the World

Patricia Hemingway wrote: Do you still believe that another person can 'help' you psychologically?

Another person can definitely help me psychologically. 'No help from others' is a myth, a self-deception. I know you won't accept what I'm saying. I say what I truly feel. I don't want to use K language to say that there's no psychological evolution and that others can't help me. If you believe otherwise by all means do so.

Forum: K, psychology and the physical brain Thu, 18 Jun 2009
Topic: science, the I and ego,

phil King wrote: I think I will leave it here because I can almost feel the pain I am causing with my statements as people read this.

Phil, You make me laugh too. Don't be so hard on yourself. You have not caused any stress to me. I have voluntarily come to discuss. Pl go on.