Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Ravi Seth's Forum Activity | 1625 posts in 3 forums


Forum: General Discussion Mon, 10 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

nick carter wrote: Attention and direct perception are not knowing.

Can you tell the other who hasn't tasted sweet, what sweetness is?Perhaps not.But we all "know" what sweet is since we all have tasted it.Therefore it doesn't make sweetness a mystery.

If emptiness , silence couldn't be known ( as in the case of sweetness), how could the seer ever talk about it?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 11 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: Well may be by talking what is absent there!

Be sure, Kapila.. not may be.

He must "know first" then only talk about what is absent.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 11 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

Eve Goodmon wrote: Obviously intelligence decides what is remembered and what is not, but it is till only the past and there for not real.

if i say how do you know it? will the question look right to you? it means u all ready know thats why u can make such a profound statement!!Therefore say from the state you are in and don't from the state you are not in.:-)

It is obvious talking about perfume is not the perfume!But he must know, must have experienced that perfume thats why he knows.If there is no experience of that perfume in the sense of knowing, one can never say a word about the "GROUND" because one will not be knowing about that.Simple eve, simple , don't make it complicated.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 12 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: You are right.Not know but the person must have lived it to talk about it.If you say know emptiness it becomes rather puzzling because if it is emptiness can there be anything there to recognize to know? However the person may remember the description of it I think.What I am saying is description without the ability to invoke it can be there.

Naturally one has to live that to know and the perfume of honesty & truthfulness is there for everybody to smell even from his simple statements.This kind of experience is not at all different from ours but there is no "I' as ahankara present in the one who really speaks about the truth.It gets translated as per our state of consciousness which cannot hear but through past, cannot see but through past since there is "I" present and we are forever in wonder how could he speak like that!!All our confusion is from this edge of the river whereas the other is standing at the other edge and there are no questions or confusion in his mind.He sees clearly, listens clearly no chattering at all in his mind.... an empty state.

The "I" which fills us is the culprit since it very much feels alive and vibrant as life is.This illusion the other doesn't have.Thats all.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 12 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

Eve Goodmon wrote: The WORD emptiness is not emptiness, what he talks about is not the real thing just like the lingering sent of perfume is not the perfume.

Obviously intelligence decides what is remembered and what is not, but it is till only the past and there for not real.

Thats why description is not described.How could 'k' say it more clearly?...but again he had to say it and he was pointing at something else which he always emphatically said is not what you "understand" as your understanding is from past...through this screen of "I" as ahankara.

I was just rereading about his description about psychological time and oh, my Lord, the way he dissects, the way he sees time from abs clarity!!! Who said he didn't clearly described this "I" as ahankara, its birth and its death?

But when it is questioned here, in this forum, that 'k' didn't say the "I"- the self is the main culprit, didn't describe it fully well, didn't come on hard on this subject,nor ever laid any stress over it,nor said how it originates, I see people from west don't have this knowledge even as a concept which people from east have since it is ingrained in their culture from time immemorial, and hence immediately see what the seer is talking about.( though east ones don't become automatically better since it remains with them too as a concept and not the reality and 'k' rightly pointed out this)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 12 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

dhirendra singh wrote: It logically appear

what is logically true is true forever.... since there is no "I" in logic.simple.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 12 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

Eve Goodmon wrote: I know this is true because I experimented with it, and I saw that it works that way

TRUE Provided this is not another illusion!

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 12 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

Eve Goodmon wrote: Now give me a break, Ravi. I am a westerner and I totally understand K's description of the I, self etc. But not anymore than any Indian, I still am not a transformed being, or enlightened, or at lease I don't think so :) Do you think an enlightened being KNOWS s/he are unlighted :)

Don't feel guilty if you are not an eastern , easterns also don't understand him for nuts!!!!!... only that they don't put the onus on him for not telling them since they know he is telling, talking, opening up the curtain from "I" but they also know they are not able to see!!!!

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 13 Jan 2011
Topic: sorrow

dhirendra singh wrote: Without 'I'! Ravi, I think you have 'I', or better to say you are 'I', so, we speak with 'I'. not without "I".Then how can we believe upon this logic which is with 'I'.

"Description is not the described".... the golden rule.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 13 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

sunyata sunyata wrote: I don't have to explain you too much. You are friends with "K

.....but i am a die hard 'kommunist' why not say me this, O sunayata? point out the light to me, i am dying.....save some compassion for me!Give this troubled soul the nectar of immortality!

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

sunyata sunyata wrote: In this universe, every one's existence is justified. There are exploding stars, pulsars, quasars, and regular stars like our Sun and revolving planets. As gb and Nick said, it is rhythmatic like breath/dancing and it only when "Shiva" dances, the rhythm of physical world gets disturbed (If the "center", the "Phallus" start moving, then one can expect an earthquake). In addition there are "black holes". Your place in this universe is appreciated. You are the Man!

ha...ha...ha..ha , you are jolly good dear soni, really.you have shown me the right place where i can live peacefully!... black holes!!! Ha ... ha.. ha... and shiva's phallus vibrating in tandva dance and i hiding under my bed!! ... too good... beyond imagination.. real reality you portray... excellent... no match!!

by the way can i meet you face to face, dear soni...in person?... u, i suppose are from Hyderabad, isn't it?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Wanting

Eve Goodmon wrote: Interested?

can anyone join this safari, eve?If yes, pl consider me in and inform me what have i to spend?If you say yes, i will join.Will it not be a bright idea to call on all of us here i.e. gb, sunayata, prassanna, Max, Dr,George,John, paul mohaddhib, mina and all others who want?... if any help is needed we from india can volunteer, at least i will.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Wanting

Eve Goodmon wrote: since you will be helping with renting a place and finding a cheap car...

i am on.Give me directions, chief.Really i think it is serious.I am a game, eve... if you have any particular place in himalayas?... or can i suggest some beautiful ones?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: What is this 'Phallus'?

if you being an eastern don't know what is phallus of shiva, i am surprised!! it is "shivlingum" the purusha principle of the two principles , the other is "prithvi", "yoni' - the female priciple. ...she is not pointing to male's lingum , you nut, but to the one who is responsible for birth of this universe.It is from pure Samkhya darshna and propounded by the sage, your namesake only "kapila".

You better know Soni first hand and then comment.Her knowledge of scripture is extensive and i am begining to believe she herself is an enlightened lady though it appears she talks in riddles.If you get to know her riddles you shall find they are to the point and they hit the bull's eye.....ask Nick , he will tell you.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

Kapila

Don't doubt Soni's knowledge.

Black holes are not hypothetical construction.Black holes exist and the gravity there is of the order of infinity!!Even light rays bend when they pass near to them!!

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Patricia Hemingway wrote: Now what will the self do with that information I wonder?

'disorder will rule disorder'...... and thats a valid reason for the self to remain in disorder.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: However this is not to say people with insight are non existent. I find you get some in these forums too.

i sincerely started and having the feeling , though i haven't met her face to face, that soni is up to something and she is not divulging it to us...thats why i want to meet her and listen her first hand.SHE IS KNOWLEDGEABLE and now u don't go on here dissecting the knowledge and all that.Explore her, she might have something up her sleeve and i beleive she has!!

Kapila have you seen that advertisement by Eve in "events" on this kinfonet and her invitation?It is serious and i am now in the party.Do you want to join in?i am thinking of pursuing soni also to join in.i will talk to her when she is on net.If you want to and i am not on the net, will you pl talk to her to join?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

My phone number in india is 9355881003 and add the usual 0091-171, i think i am not sure. my place is Ambala Cantt and its code is 0171, india code is 0091, do little arithmetics and dial in case u are interested.my mail address is dearseth@yahoo.com.

anybody for that matter, you too sunayata!!

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 14 Jan 2011
Topic: Wanting

thanks,Dan for the quick reply.i wish we keep this on and on for all the coming years too.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 15 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

sunyata sunyata wrote: When one nurture's a tee with "pure water"

i really want to meet you , Soni.Pl join us in june for a retreat in Himalayas and then we might go to a forest and also to Varanasi at The Ganges.

I want to taste the pure waters.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 15 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: You said here you are into drugs & muddled everything up

you are a very simple person, kapila.Read again what i said.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 15 Jan 2011
Topic: Belief

ganesan balachandran wrote: and more watching. gb

thats a good one, gb.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 16 Jan 2011
Topic: Identity

sunyata sunyata wrote: It is only a "Desi" that can do some thing like this.

i am touched by ur comments,i am crying soni...yes, i am emotional and let it be a fool's paradise , who cares!

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 17 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Eve Goodmon wrote: We took a wrong turn when we replaced a sense of existence and being for the mind and self that says I think therefore I am.

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: That is so. The question I've been asking is why did man do that?

Eve and Kapila

You both accept that the man took a wrong turn by replacing his sense of self existence and being for the mind and self that says I think therefore I am.

Tell me how are you both sure about it that it was a wrong turn or, is your saying so arising from your knowledge meaning you have read it somewhere and repeating it and not as a fact which you see.

If it is a fact which you see, there wouldn't be any question of the like which kapila makes.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 17 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: Self is causing conflict between man & man right? We can see that, isn't it? So it's possible to say the building up of the 'self' is a wrong action as far as peace between man & man is concerned.So we can say it's the wrong turn.My question then is why did man do that? That is, why did man build the 'self'? How do you say this question doesn't follow or cannot follow from the point we made before?

Because we generalize and not personalize, we don't see.

'self' is you.Right Kapila? Therefore 'you' only are to see you are making a action wrong or right.When you see you are making a wrong action then stop making it.Simple as that.But you don't see nor can feel you are making a wrong action in actuality but see and feel only the pain which you get, the reason for which you impose on others but never to yourself since you cannot see your wrong actions.Therefore the question arises why are they not able to see that they are taking a wrong turn by building this self? You question others, meaning you generalize but don't see for yourself,If you see for yourself your question wouldn't arise even.This is simple logic.

By only seeing in yourself that wrong action you can generalize your statement and seeing is to be free from it ever.It is again a simple logic and not a Godsend insight.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 17 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Eve Goodmon wrote: I would say that a state of being does not create psychological conflict where a sense of self does....when I look at nature, conflict seems limited, when I look at man, it is boundless.

It seems to me that at one point we decided to move out of being and into knowledge...based reality.

By only comparing with nature you say that not otherwise.There could be many explanations for that difference too.One can be that nature and you are built differently and have different characteristics and you just can't prove even this simpleton looking statement wrong since you have not actually ( to use 'k' lingo) seen that wrong turn in yourself. If ever you can see that wrong turn in you,without comparing or hearing from other, you wouldn't be doing it ever nor that question or its explanations will ever arise.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 18 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Ravi, one is constantly taking a wrong turn in the darkness of inattention. I don't feel that there is anything like 'seen the wrong turn' because taking or not takinng a wrong turn is open to one moment to moment.

I again start afresh, doc.When you make a statement that," one is constantly taking a wrong turn in the darkness of inattention.", where from, from which premises this very statement is been made?If it is being made from the state in which this humanity is, then this humanity doesn't know it is dark or in a state of inattention and hence this statement cannot be made since it knows not any other state.

Or if,

you say taking a wrong turn or not is from moment to moment, meaning of which i take is,( correct me if i am wrong)-- at one moment it is seen it is a wrong turn when there is spark of insight which enlightens the darkness then again darkness because the spark is no longer there and hence inattention resulting in the wrong tun again.If it so I will question this statement on logic alone ( for which no insight or anything else is required).Pl let me know if you meant as I interpret your statement, doc?Our discussion on this shall proceed after you say yes or no and explain what did you mean to say.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: The conclusion at the end is looking intellectual to this man, if you don't mind my saying so, dear friend.

IT IS INTELLECTUAL NO DOUBT BUT LOGICAL.Logic shows what is false but it may not free you from false.That is correct.Its use is only to show you what is false and you don't have any other tool accept this logic to know what is false and what is not! It is obvious and you don't have to state the obvious

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Logic may show that one will be free from wrong action forever, but logic can be wrong in psychological matters.

Logic does not free one from wrong actions but it will show you what is false.Acceptance of the false, totally, then only frees you from the false.The logic shows and is accepted fully without any resistance whatever is what enlightenment is.Show me any logic which is not right in matters psychological since logic is when psychological is absent till the time it is being used.It is an instrument which highlights tremors of this "self."

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 18 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: 'Forever' is time while life is in the moment. When you guarantee something 'forever', then time has come in and that means the 'self is in action. Only the insight will take one to real understanding in this matter.

I don't guarantee nothing.I was dissecting statement of eve, logically, to show it was incorrect.Time, forever,self, etc. were never contained in my statement nor implied even since it was made on pure logic alone.In logic there is no "me" or "I" otherwise it doesn't remain logic but turn into irrationality.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 18 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Dear Ravi, if one can see the wrong turn, it is no longer that!

Obviously it is no longer that.It is logical.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: When one is neither attentive to thought process nor observing/perceiving directly the outer world, then one is taking that wrong turn every moment unknowinly.

For that you must have had that flash of lightening which told you that you were taking the wrong turn every moment unknowingly.Because in the next sentence you say

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: The right turn is directly observing 'what is' and it has its own rich flavour and taste. The seeing is the doing and knowing, friend.

as if you have all ready seen yourself taking the wrong turn and now will not do it again ever and are enjoying its rich flavor and taste. Why the hell are you here doc.This is a learner's school without any teacher but the teaching.

and also you have the temerity to add

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Don't interpret my statement. See your responses/reaction to it and yo are on the right track/turning.:-)

and my response and reaction to it are of utter confusion!!!!... and you call that utter confusion the right track/turning and you also smile! ..... and next , instead reading listening to what i stated there you stick to your fond word life and say it is life which judges what is wrong and what is right.Dr. Sharma you stated:

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: No, this is incorrect, Ravi. It is the life/living that is the judge of what is false/true. Logic comes later in to picture.It can prove what is true/false provided the observing of event was unbiased(self interest/concern was not in operation).

and i get more confused because i clearly see life as a process in material as thinking is a process in material albeit different ones at different times in the ladder of evolution and knowing only occurs because of thinking and how would life know if thinking wasn't there?.... it confuses me more!Logic comes later or not is not the point but the point is logic is there in us, in our thinking as a tool which tells us, which makes it known to us if it is right or wrong.Then you say:

Or you use the word 'logic' to mean something else.

I don't mean it any other way than what is considered by the meaning of logic and that is: The tool for distinguishing between the true and the false (Averroes). The science of reasoning, teaching the way of investigating unknown truth in connection with a thesis (Robert Kilwardby). The art whose function is to direct the reason lest it err in the manner of inferring or knowing (John Poinsot). The art of conducting reason well in knowing things (Antoine Arnauld). The right use of reason in the inquiry after truth (Isaac Watts). The Science, as well as the Art, of reasoning (Richard Whately). The science of the operations of the understanding which are subservient to the estimation of evidence (John Stuart Mill). The science of the laws of discursive thought (James McCosh). The science of the most general laws of truth (Gottlob Frege). The science which directs the operations of the mind in the attainment of truth (George Hayward Joyce). The branch of philosophy concerned with analysing the patterns of reasoning by which a conclusion is drawn from a set of premisses (Collins English Dictionary) The formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning (Penguin Encyclopedia).

what the hell is going on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pontification then again super pontification!!!

Dr.

You don't meet my questions or you tend to avoid answering them.In this way you are muddling everything up purposely and want to go on sleeping in your 7th heaven..Instead answering or meeting my questions directly, you again go on the so called mysterious and mystic rants of yours which is called "Spiritual Faking" or somebody said "Spiritual Fixing".See , read my questions and answer or ask which you haven't understood and i shall explain.You side track my first reply and come to second one because it suits you to answer the second one in your so called mysterious way but in that too your voice doesn't reach me.

or

you are using words which have their own definitions in your mind and not the usual or dictionary meaning which one can understand clearly.If thats the case i will apologize profusely but you must tell me the meaning of your words you take if they are different since even your description isn't reaching me or may be i am DEAF!!!!

which is the case, pl clear it first.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 18 Jan 2011
Topic: A Wrong Turn

Eve Goodmon wrote: Ravi, you can observe the wrong turn every time you are into psychological thinking. In a state of reaction, like fear or anger....the wrong turn is here with us

My question was how do you know that it is a wrong turn?How are you so sure about it?You are instead telling me abt your conclusions.