Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Daniel Wesockes' Forum Activity | 29 posts in 1 forum


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Forum: General Discussion Sun, 30 Sep 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Please Forgive my intrusion I am not stepping on toes . Authorities cannot end sorrow in anyone and no one is aware all the time they are in sorrow, even when they are seeking pleasure . So ask yourselves what would a happy person want with say pleasure in drink, or smoke, or success even in agreement, or the pleasure one gets in bickering ? Seeking success even in a discussion is from happiness? Your trying to spread cheer here by bickering or being an anarchist, about sorrow ? Most sorrow is self pity or loss or why me feelings in life, when failure or misfortune comes . Now I ask you reasonably will the desire to end sorrow help end sorrow or even help us learn about sorrow ? Why not Learn about desire, being part of sorrow it maybe causes sorrow to?

My love left me I desire to have her back . That is sorrow . Did K. say you can end sorrow by desire, or by learning about everything as it arises and being aware and perceiving that each time we have an emotion, or a feeling it is not the same one we had last time? No one learns about anything they condemn, or desire to end with thought will, and desire because it is thought will and desire that pollute awareness? So can a particular sorrow that comes up end by perceiving it seed, flower, and wither like any thought or desire ?

Is that your question to about all thoughts and emotions and awareness flowing with life, or really living in perceiving with life, and death harmoniously ending every moment in time. Seeing to the best of our own inner capacity, that we possibly can without will trying or wanting to see more, or escape from sorrow ? Can we each be seeing will as desire, not try to end sorrow, without learning about it? Will we when we can see and learn dispassionately, by watching sadness sorrow, and also pleasure, in ourselves? See that seeing is necessary not thought in learning about all thought as the mostly sad, limited willful, brain projected self. A self consciousness that cannot change itself only reform, and modify itself a tiny bit with more ideal thoughts about emotions that are never old even if stimulated, invented, maintained by old thoughts. See if you can just see and learn without bias or prejudice or condemning the good or the so called bad feelings and emotions in life. Have a good day. If some of you said this or anything similar please allow me to pre-acknowledge this,as supporting you, or adding to what you stated . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 30 Sep 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Yes it sure sounds like some have a handle on psychological continuity, and improving in gossip spreading, and labeling, and bickering. Yes some are holding on to the known past for security and the easy maintenance of self certainty . But sorry your habit for many years in discussions, bickering without seeing there's nothing true about psychological evolution, by regurgitating gossip about others,labeling others and the known past of conceptual memory, is a habit not a choiceless transformation but a choice to block silence and awareness .

Usually Repetition is not from any virtue like humor, or affection or wisdom but some is valuable and could be . Any kind of intelligence operating in your own seeing perception or awareness would not make you a psychological judge of anyone else here learning with you . Only the sweet way is intelligent not the gossipy immature way .Thank you to all my friends for your warm welcomes and even to the wiser challenges. The insults from a few of you are understandable to me . You maybe do not see the sorrow behind the bickering,or the judgements of others.

Others similar to yourselves,with similar problems. Most of us have similar backgrounds compelling us to act strangely like yourselves or in different ways . Maybe some do not see your own backgrounds, and minds are similar and not learning or inquiring into those conditioned similar backgrounds in yourselves and listening to anyone without bias yourselves . Peace to you all .Just see first not believe first and keep on seeing and you will not ever feel the desire to believe anything again . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 30 Sep 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Hello Kirsten. You know how us silver backs are. :-)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 01 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Lilol lady wrote :You've been accomodating K-nuts for some time now, kirsten

Yes and even accommodating to belligerent others, and wacky men dishonestly posing as ladies and those posing as new world teachers or saviors and Kings and Queens of contempt, and vileness in groups, and other megalomaniacs. Kirsten's generosity of the heart, her real friendship, and nurturing, care of and for all others is a legend. Just as obnoxious behavior is common, clever, insensitive and intellectual.

Pessimism is Not from affection, but from deep dishonesty in relationships, deep sorrow, sadness, negative feelings and personal sickness, personal bitterness, and personal inner denial.Thank you Kirsten for being the nurturer you are and seeing the real beauty in Express free, and the art of Inquiry . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 01 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

I do not think we should believe anything looking into sorrow, or its causes in ourselves without seeing it is the psyche, or self causing a lot of sorrow and disparity in the world, from that inner sorrow . One of the causes of division and sorrow is that false book people quote from, about cutting off the offensive hand, or plucking out your eyes like a lunatic if they tempt you .Please do not be a common fanatic or moron plucking out your own eyes,repressing desire, or believing in an eye for an eye logic, or reason, or hurt yourselves any more than you already have by believing in anything or any particular person Gods, places, ideas, or savior .

I do not think the question what can we do about sorrow is as important as what can we do in life to be different or make a difference . See what your heart tells you is a wonderful fit for you and keep doing what your doing to help as some of you are doing the best you can to care for our cousins the beautiful animals and our beautiful earth and fellow man .

Many of us can see and try something new in our life because at no time in history has it been so scientifically obvious there is so much for mankind to do and cooperate together in saving our beautiful planet even if we might not be able to . Doing the right thing for its own sake is extremely more important for each of you than wondering why you should, or skepticism, or needing any inspiration, or motivation, about whether or not we will succeed . See the truthfulness, the simple inherent goodness of that wonderful truth for yourselves to . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

It cannot be invited Let me put it differently: When the mind is free from the known, it is a new mind, an innocent mind; it is in a state of creation which is immeasurable, nameless, beyond time. And, we have been discussing, what it is that prevents us from coming naturally, easily, gracefully, to that state.It cannot be invited because a petty mind cannot invite the immense. All pettiness has to come to an end, and then the other is. The mind cannot imagine that state of immensity. From its pettiness, from its shallowness, it can project something which it thinks is beautiful, but that which it projects is still part of its own ugliness. The psychological structure of society is what we are. When the structure is understood and there is freedom from it, then the nameless, that in which there is no time, no progress, comes into being.Then the other is. - Collected Works, Vol. XIII,273.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Yes To Rick and Kirsten seeing this along with a few others saying this from your own seeing and listening .Katy I do not know solutions to this man made sorrow filled nightmare, most seem to think is not man made and not just conceptually invented.Yes doubt is good, you also should doubt yourself. Also doubt the dishonest men, and women talking as knowers, not inquirers, or your not learning yourselves. So please do not believe anyone when it comes to understanding seeing and thinking for yourselves, not even your own conceptually invented selves, not even me.Psychological accumulation willful self possession, Reason, and Analysis, is not the key to seeing or listening without bias for ourselves.Nor can science and reason be the cause of inner flowering, or fruition of your own individual awareness and creativity. A creativity, or evolution. A new seeing that will make you a whole life artist, and an original individual learning storing the technical, but not psychologically storing systems and others limiting ideas. Using others limiting fragmenting thoughts. Using beliefs others invented as their questions, and beliefs in life. Not necessarily your questions, or ever any living truth, in their memorized questions on life, unless you see them as your own and make them your own not believe your teachers that you should .

See for yourselves all intelligence may only ever be in science, or from listening without bias, and seeing the beauty enter, when the space between thoughts expands into infinity in ourselves . Psychologically choosing to be introverted, or an extrovert , or in between . To become or not be, is factually resistance to what is. A refusal to listen see, and learn, and an exercise in futility. If you want to stay in the false continuity thought projects from thought, or stay as ignorant, meaning as mentally ensnared by thought as two thousand year old Greeks,or Romans? Believe the question still is, or ever was, To Be, or not To Be . A question or choice that divides the unintelligent, or the student, or the psyche of the naive, with its asking, or answer, or choice from a false positive reaction was never necessary to Inquire, learn, or see/act, from intelligence. So; no matter how reasonable it seems look closer at fragmentation even by psychological choices to become, or any unbecoming choice, or choice to sacrifice yourselves, to others invented causes . Yes We'll see some will not ever put their beliefs down long enough to see, or be aware of the beauty in whole global seeing for themselves. Thank you all for listening . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Thank you Katy . In doubt there is great beauty, and real humility. The real choiceless state thought can never cultivate from seeing will never say believe me, or in me .You can see . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Katy Ji wrote: I don't believe that a mind can be 'new'.

Katy Have you ever been around a new animal or baby or innocent mind ? Its not about not believing or believing its about learning newly with freshness of the mind or emptiness? You not believing is no different than you believing . It is still you conceptually, fixated on a conclusion that blocks learning . Also I would like to know where you get your certainty, or honesty from? If not from seeing what is and not knowing solutions to old problems ? Maybe learning here to learn with others, see with them even if you come upon someone who learns every day with a really good mind here like Kirsten, Ken or Rick? Naturally excluding me or you, out of the equation for this general discussion. Psychologically creativity, or newness, is not about the technical new. Maybe you mix that in by not learning to separate the two . Can you separate the technical new from the psychological new k. was talking about ? :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

I would call inventing from a previous invention, or prior conditioning more invention from conditioning, not creativity or originality at all . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Psychologically we human beings traditionally get our certainty from others invented beliefs? So even bolstering ourselves with false beliefs is not certainty, or self confidence it is fanaticism, and neurosis . What is in a concept about real honesty being technical, or a principle that allows for brutal cruelty is not truth . Listening, seeing, without bias and real science, are the only real source of confidence or originality any human beings will ever get. :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Suffering, from which we are ever trying to escape, can lead us to the comprehension of the "I" process, to the profound knowledge of oneself, but all escapes into illusion must cease.

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day | Oct 02, 2012

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Katy Ji wrote: In other words, 'being in the here and now' - free from theorising?

Yes look at it this way. See this The psychologically unknown is the new. Not the psychologically invented known is the new. The people I suggested are not the only Enquirers and learners here they are just a few human beings living their lives learning the Art of Inquiry with you whom are capable of seeing without bias themselves like many of you .Perception, or attention is not a permanent habit gained in continuity, or evolution of thought . it takes a willingness and being ready to be new and learn newly every night noon and day because they are new, and thought meets them with old yesterdays . .:-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Katy Ji wrote: mine field wrote: In doubt there is also confusion, fear and anxiety...the two kinds need to be differentiated.

Yes we must get used to breaking down everything. Not inventing reform , or believing in anything .Doubt of the traditional nationalism and traditional religions only comes when you break them down, break down pyramids, and hierarchies and power abuse. See the self delusions and superstitions and false invented saviors, thought and belief in deities. Beliefs in old miracles, that were never even verified,especially by believers, certainly not by real scientists, or science, in the old books most defend, that maintain the cults and nations as invented unions . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

mine field wrote: Listening, seeing with bias is the actuality for us...whatever process brings confidence or originality must start from this actuality...projecting the ultimate is like building a house without proper foundation.

Your to flippant with your us, and false beliefs that everyone is like you now in this discussion ? The believer is the believed but the beliefs are not true . Even if rare you have listened without bias, or had joy in your life or saw something beautiful without bias or wanting to own, it or repeat it so why not do it now ? Katy you do not think your escaping from yourself in your own watching TV to so just learn about that to ? :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

mine field wrote: Breaking down can become a never ending process...there has to be another approach so that the whole life is not spent in doing this. When you break down doubt is it to bicker? When you say there must be something else is it because your frustrated ? Yes there is something else . When you learn to listen without bias it is something else ?

J.K. Peace is of the heart, not of the mind. To know peace you have to find out what beauty is. The way you talk, the words you use, the gestures you make—these things matter very much, for through them you will discover the refinement of your own heart. Beauty cannot be defined, it cannot be explained in words. It can be understood only when the mind is very quiet. To know peace you have to find out what beauty is - Life Ahead (163) © Krishnamurti Foundation Trust, Ltd © Krishnamurti Foundation of America

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Escapes Yes Katy we all have them . Learning is the key not condemning them or substituting them for others when we get bored but learning for its own sake . Repression, suppression, surrender, submitting, accepting, obeying, doing everything my way, substitution, has been tried for thousands of years, self learning, seeing really is new . Just see :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Dean R. Smith wrote: What the hell are you talking about?

Everything we know positively, psychologically, religiously, and philosophically, and ideologically,about the unknown is what the past invented, and conceptualized, as the psychological known . The unknown is the new and the known is tiny, and a dwarfish intellectual trait or memory compared to the immensity of the mystery of life or the true immensity of the unknown . The self projected life is a trip to nowhere, only to end up with nothing . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Katy Ji wrote: I try to sifle out what makes sense but see that there is a sort of mission to convert me operating. Krishnamurtiism has already reinforced my lunacy...maybe people are deeply offended by this aspect and so prefer to make me the problem (for not wanting to believe in K's postulations) instead of doubting K?

I would just ask the reasonable question What is the alternative to self Inquiry that Lilol lady and a few others are positing, or pointing to with their own reactive volatility, dislike, or milder hatred ? What is not exploitation, and vampirism, or good about any hateful responses or verbal abusive aggression ? Why would a happy person be convincing others to hate, and so full of mischief themselves? What value has gossip about anyone as to knowing them for yourselves even though most do indulge in gossip we should not take it as gospel truth or the whole truth about anyone ?

I know I gossip to. Most gossip is preying on others, or inflicting our deeply prejudicial thoughts about others from the past on strangers or so called friends here . All I see as an alternative to self learning from believers in cults, is a fanatics hatred of inquiry or K. without valid information or understanding, or seeing with him of almost everything he said about becoming, and believing, and hating? Not seeing psychological thought as invented time, and the evolution of cleverness, and war? Maybe looking at this dishonest hatefully insulting approach here to inquiry with others might help to understand the self and the limits it will take personal hatred to, even more ? We'll see

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

Do it, and you will see

Posted: Questioner: Sir, if there is no effort, if there is no method, then any transition into the state of awareness, any shift into a new dimension must be a completely random accident, and therefore unaffected by anything you might say on the subject.Krishnamurti: Ah, no, sir! I didn't say that. [Laughter] I said one has to be aware. By being aware, one discovers how one is conditioned. By being aware, I know I am conditioned as a Hindu, as a Buddhist, as a Christian; I am conditioned as a nationalist: British, German, Russian, Indian, American, Chinese;I am conditioned. We never tackle that. That's the garbage we are, and we hope something marvellous will grow out of it, but I am afraid it is not possible. Being aware doesn't mean a chance happening, something irresponsible and vague. If one understands the implications of awareness, one's body not only becomes highly sensitive, but the whole entity is activated; there is a new energy given to it. Do it, and you will see. Don't sit on the bank and speculate about the river; jump in and follow the current of this awareness, and you will find out for yourself how extraordinarily limited our thoughts, our feelings, and our ideas are. Our projections of gods, saviours, and Masters-all that becomes so obvious, so infantile. - The Collected Works, Vol. XV,138,Choiceless Awareness

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

When anyone posits an Inquirer who points out the value in see first for yourselves, is accused of preaching, and not just sharing something beautiful with you or someone influences you to believe something bad about a fellow inquirer ? Maybe It is time to ask yourselves what are those rocket scientists trying to do asking you to believe their negativity,or prejudices against other human beings here ?

Can you really Believe their personal attacks, are from sensitivity or anything they do see for themselves with an inner light of their own ? Do you Believe goodness comes from hatred ? Maybe it is time to ask what preaching is if its not believe first about anything even a fellow human being from a deeply prejudiced propagandist ? If you can be so easily influenced to dislike strangers your not inquirers anyway. Your not trying to see first for yourselves anyway your not beyond influence yourselves believing hateful peoples rhetoric, and propaganda.

Nor are you seeing through their propaganda, and deep prejudices. Prejudices that are not from goodness, when they try to influence you and to turn you against your brothers, and sisters in the world anyway like any politician .See first for yourselves believe first about anything.Especially a so called bitter authority analyzing others personalities in any society . Analysis by anyone was never the truth about the others .

So see first, believe first was never the truth unless it has been reasonably validated by many as a fact to them .Believe first about anything that cannot easily be validated reasonably by anyone was never the living truth . Especially do not believe a hateful analysis, by a hateful human hiding their identity or anyone posing as a woman, or someone nobody can trust on the internet holding grudges, vengeance wreaking, and talking badly about, a fellow human being :-)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 02 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

You were not talked down to by K. Anyone not seeing there is no division by the thought that projects the analytical thinker might feel talked down to by k.? They might make other unfair untrue assumptions, or analyze differently without doubting their inner analyzers, and come to other certain conclusions. Even when he spoke in absolute terms . Why do you not stay with what you see and saw with him and keep learning, and stop wasting energy debating with the dead and find out for yourself what he said, and how he lived from those living with him, and learn what he factually asked everyone to do as far as see wholely in life for themselves.

See their own ugly societies, and the organized corruption and lies they are built on and what they really are as thought invented disorder ? The only debate anyone has with k. he did not have with them is for advocating programming. Others are Advocating conditioning over individual learning, inquiring, and seeing for yourselves not K. So; instead of what most are trying to do even a few here, is convince others they can see for themselves, and think clearly? It is not from seeing when they cannot even see accepting any form of conditioning, or programming makes us all blind .

Are you aware of your self as an invention of society analyzing K, with only a going backwards into the tradition of believing in your not evolutionary, not creative memorial and traditional thought arsenal? Seeing is the key not our analogies, or analysis or mental slavery or non awareness, that believers and all the psychological authorities are talking down to us.Doing that from the beliefs they are chosen or special casting out their pearls of wisdom to you . Doing that from their own belief systems and they factually feel vainly superior, to non believers, which is a factual disease of belief or a personal poison like any hard drug they never seek a cure for, or doubt .We'll see together if you want to but believing together is never from seeing or real doubt. :-)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 04 Oct 2012
Topic: Sorrow

The Disorder That Time Creates: So time means moving from what is to 'what should be'. I am afraid, but one day I shall be free of fear; therefore, time is necessary to be free of fear - at least, that is what we think. To change from what is to 'what should be' involves time. Now, time implies effort in that interval between what is and 'what should be'. I don't like fear, and I am going to make an effort to understand, to analyze, to dissect it, or I am going to discover the cause of it, or I am going to escape totally from it. All this implies effort - and effort is what we are used to. We are always in conflict between what is and 'what should be'. The 'what I should be' is an idea, and the idea is fictitious, it is not 'what I am' , which is the fact; and the 'what I am' can be changed only when I understand the disorder that time creates. So, it is possible for me to be rid of fear totally, completely, on the instant? If I allow fear to continue, I will create disorder all the time; therefore, one sees that time is an element of disorder, not a means to be ultimately free of fear. So there is no gradual process of getting rid of fear, just as there is no gradual process of getting rid of the poison of nationalism. If you have nationalism and you say that eventually there will be the brotherhood of man, in the interval there are wars, there are hatreds, there is misery, there is all this appalling division between man and man; therefore, time is creating disorder. The Book of Life October 4

Commentaries On Living, Series III Comfort is one thing, and truth another; they lead away from each other. If you seek comfort, you may find it in an explanation, a drug or a belief; but it will be temporary, and sooner or later you will have to begin over again. And is there such a thing as comfort? It may be that you will first have to see this fact: that a mind which seeks comfort, security, will always be in sorrow. A satisfactory explanation, or a comforting belief, can put you soothingly to sleep; but is that what you want? Will that wipe away your sorrow? Is sorrow to be got rid of by inducing sleep? Commentaries On Living, Series III, Chapter 13, Why Should It Happen To Us?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 04 Oct 2012
Topic: The thinker is the thoughts, and the believer is the believed . Is that a fact to us ?

Please Let me state it simply and clearly about who, or what is the believer for you all than we can discuss this . So you can see this for yourselves, whether your exhibitionists, extroverts, braggarts, or introverts or those really serious about inquiry yourselves . In thought time now is not ever the present . It is impossible to think about now and not be locked in the conceptual past . It is not a condemnation to say bragging, or denying, or any self achievement by thought except technically is not in the self's domain. Asserting forms of achievement by thought in traditional religious, philosophical, and spiritual field, is becoming or unbecoming which are the same pendulum swinging, or backward and forward movement of personal thought in conceptual time .

Thought selves play an immature exploiting vain game, intentionally acted out or played consciously or played out , acted out in denial, and conscious but shallow, and limited self delusion. Especially when done by anyone, and most everyone, and not anything those who want to see, want to play any more on earth with other psyches in any discussion groups looking into reality or what is, or yourselves . Inquiring learning, seeing, listening, aware with others of the complex problems facing mankind .

I see what is does not ever cross over into i know the solutions or the field of the known, or another belief system to freeze others, believers in conceptual time .Beliefs are never leading anyone to true psychological freedom from thought . Not for this person or anyone, not me, not you, not the others can see truth, or be fully alive in the now, and living with more false ideas, and beliefs, and conceptual self divisions, and more self illusions and delusions . We'll see things or what is together than agree, was never believe first and agree and never will be. See first the thinker is not divided from their thought for yourselves and the thoughts are never the now, or the thing at all, and never were .Peace and silence to you all . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 04 Oct 2012
Topic: The thinker is the thoughts, and the believer is the believed . Is that a fact to us ?

Thinking is not awareness and comes from our memory bank, and the thinking observer is also thinking from that very same place that stores the past. like a hard drive on a computer we are programs . Nothing in memory is now and awareness can see, and use memory when conditioning is not using memory divisively, except technically. Not dividing, or from a conditioned fragment stuck in ideas, insolence, bitterness, and pessimism, or personal violent thoughts against images of others in the self's own head.

Images that are never those others no matter what we think about them. Conceptual reality in our head, is not truthfully unbiased awareness even if we say out loud, our preferences as our prejudices against others or support for them . It is still our personal preferences not sacred truth about their originality or psychological freedom. Friends see together agreement in beliefs, is not a solid basis or ground for real friendships and never was.

Only generosity of the heart, real care, sharing, and affection is. The pursuit of only the pleasure of agreement, is not . The self ensnared in personal opinions, conclusions and past analytical thoughts is mentally a slave to its own thinking .Just see that for yourselves if you can the best you can .Yes We'll see together . We'll see together, if you want? Not believe together first . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 04 Oct 2012
Topic: The thinker is the thoughts, and the believer is the believed . Is that a fact to us ?

Madras, India | 2nd Pulic Talk, 15th Jan 1964

But the man who is serious, has the seriousness that demands complete attention, an attention that will go right through. Such a man must know this art of listening. If you know the art of listening, there is nothing more to be said. Then you will listen to the crow, to the bird, to the whisper of the breeze among the leaves; and you will also listen to yourself, to the mutterings of your own mind, to your own heart, and to the intimation of your own unconsciousness. Then you are in a state of acute, intense listening and, therefore, you are no longer indulging in opinions.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 04 Oct 2012
Topic: The thinker is the thoughts, and the believer is the believed . Is that a fact to us ?

If a believer calls another a heretic, or someone that believes, themselves, and does not understand another who is not conditioned to believe like them names. Than That is from violence not inquiry . So; Even explaining fragmentation correctly, or not well enough for them to understand the first time they hear them or those seeing something from awareness explain something to them, or ask us to look, or listen without bias they will mostly react immaturely from belief or non belief which is the same movement of thought . Violence is bias from an old lady, or old man, acting like a young mischievous boy, or a mischievous girl. That is still violence from believing something, or not believing something, your not aware of yourself, or have not seen or understood about the real now, not the now in memory.

Violence and dislike are both from ignorance. Violence, and dislike acting in the believers, or the non believers insulting others because they do not understand them is juvenile . In the past,the flat space, and earth societies, would do the same thing to Copernicus, and Galileo, and Christopher Columbus. So if your an Inquirer, and explorer, seeing and newly thinking for yourselves? You can naturally expect to meet some very dishonest human beings with a juvenile mentality on the internet, even in daily life. Most taking great pleasure out of being insensitive unintelligent, immature and emotionally sterile, unfriendly and cruel. They could be your next door neighbors in life and rarely reveal who they really are. We'll see what happens . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 05 Oct 2012
Topic: The thinker is the thoughts, and the believer is the believed . Is that a fact to us ?

randal patrick wrote: "Bingo"!! Which is half of the accept-reject dualism nature that is the trap\prison of thinking, critical/well structured or otherwise, which holds/binds humanity to conflict/comparison as a way of relating.

Your rejectionist oppostie side of the proverbial same coin is the same prison, different cell.

When you project ideal opposites as a reaction to the imprisonment such as "doubt" or "skepticism" or "open mind" or "non-dualism", you only show what you really don't know. And the dangers of that.

Yes Obviously any human being trapped in thought, and personally violent, aggressive and deranged themselves, with a vindictive will, and vengeance wreaking mind is ill. Any true believer, will call those who are newly seeing believers like them as well . :-)

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 05 Oct 2012
Topic: The thinker is the thoughts, and the believer is the believed . Is that a fact to us ?

Time Is a Poison In your bathroom you have a bottle marked 'poison', and you know it is poison;you are very careful of that bottle, even in the dark. You are always watching out for it. You don't say, 'How am I to keep away, how am I to be watchful of that bottle?' You know it is poison, so you are tremendously attentive to it.Time is a poison; it creates disorder. If this is a fact to you, then you can proceed into the understanding of how to be free of fear immediately. But if you are still holding time as a means of freeing yourself, there is no communication between you and me.

You see, there is something much more; there may be a totally different kind of time altogether. We only know two times, physical and psychological, and we are caught in time. Physical time plays an important part in the psyche, and the psyche has an important influence on the physical. We are caught in this battle,in this influence. One must accept physical time in order to catch the bus or the train, but if one rejects psychological time completely, then one may come to a time that is something quite different, a time that is not related to either. I wish you would come on with me into that time! Then time is not disorder; it is tremendous order.The Book of Life - October 5

Education And The Significance Of Life What we now call education is a matter of accumulating information and knowledge from books, which anyone can do who can read. Such education offers a subtle form of escape from ourselves and, like all escapes, it inevitably creates increasing misery. Conflict and confusion result from our own wrong relationship with people, things and ideas, and until we understand that relationship and alter it, mere learning, the gathering of facts and the acquiring of various skills, can only lead us to engulfing chaos and destruction. Education And The Significance Of Life

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