Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe's Forum Activity | 1194 posts in 2 forums


Forum: General Discussion Fri, 24 Sep 2010
Topic: Did K ever instructed for dialog between/among ignorants?

I hope Swayam Dutta checks this up.

In the last century a whole group of scientists & top technical experts worked on a project to set man on moon. At the time the group of scientists & the technical experts worked on this project nobody amongst them or for that matter on earth had any prior experience of what they were attempting to accomplish.Nevertheless the project was successful.So a person who had carried out the task was not necessary in this instance.

K founded schools in several countries. He was telling the teachers to get off the pedestal & so on & talk to the students.He told the teachers to say that they too have fear & talk to the students about fear.(ref. Letters To Schools)In 'K On Study Centers' K advocated the visitors to discuss with others.

Furthermore the question whether it's possible to inquire alone can be considered. It's possible isn't it?- otherwise we are all doomed. Besides K accomplished it alone.So if inquiry is possible alone then what's to say it's not possible with two or more for all you got to do is just voice aloud the inquiry you carry out alone. So to me dialogue among those who genuinely inquire is possible & can be helpful.

However this is not to say Swayam Dutta was without a valid point.Dialogue may be constructive & useful only if the participants are genuinely interested to learn and are aware of their position-that we are conditioned. If the participants assume or pretend that they are enlightened or awakened then the dialogue will become an activity for self expansion and thus will give rise to a subtle struggle to assert your authority,dominate & so on.

Kapila Kulasinghe.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 28 Sep 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

With all the sufferings,despairs,fears,the confusion & the terrible conflicts in relationship we find ourselves in, is there any option in this for us other than investigating ourselves?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 01 Oct 2010
Topic: Did K ever instructed for dialog between/among ignorants?

Teachers are many- well this may be man's urge to stamp his authority unconsciously due to his deep down fears.Subservience may be another expression of this fear.

K said in Saanen in July 1971 if we do not have the capacity to perceive what is false we cannot see what truth is.So if we listen to a false statement even then the possibility is there of seeing the truth.So this puts the onus on each one to make the dialogue useful to each one of us.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 02 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Well then we have not seen the total absurdity of the present social structure,our actions,our way of living.Then what do we do? Wait till life kicks us behind our pants to make us look? Then it will be too late.Our energies would have begun waning.So can we not question & see our plight now without waiting for circumstances? Here? For example David raised the question of isolation. Now what is it to be isolated? Is to be alone isolation? Can there not be isolation when we are with a group? Is not the very need to be with a group an indication of isolation? So what is it to be isolated?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 04 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

If a person is unaware that thought is limited and connot resolve problems in the world he/she might spend years trying to understand problems exercising thought.The person might get worn out, might become neurotic even right?

Now can we not show to a shool boy/girl that thought is limited,that it's the outcome of the past which is knowledge stored as memory which has been put together through experience?Experience being limited however vast it is, the outcome thought must essentially be limited.So it cannot resolve problems.Now can we not discuss and show that to a kid and thereby save a lot of his/her time and energy and possibly suffering at a future point when he begins to question life?We can isn't it?

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 04 Oct 2010
Topic: Did K ever instructed for dialog between/among ignorants?

Yes.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 04 Oct 2010
Topic: What is the nature of an ideal?

Grace Full wrote: I would like to know what is the nature of an ideal and belief, and why JK condemned them??

Well as you have not answered I'll try to answer as best as I can.

Firstly K said he was not condemning but pointing out the implications.

An ideal is somethig we have projected out of the past which may be the opposite of our problems.So it is not real and the ideal prevents us from looking at 'what is' and going beyond it.We attempt to approximate our actions to the ideal and thereby are in conflict with 'what is'.

Belief is accepting something the truth of which we are unaware of and therefore it must confuse us as well as cause fear in us.Surely you are aware of this.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 05 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Soham netti wrote: eave the young children, Do we the elders understand the limitness of thought, our all understanding is at the level of thoughts.

Thought is the response of the past which is knowledge as memory & knowledge is the outcome of experience.Now we'll ask a simple question.Can experience be limitless?Experience is only through sensory perception.Now our senses themselves are limited-you know it.(eg; our range of vision differs from other species.)So how can knowledge be complete of anythig? It's impossible.So thought is limited.

Understanding the limitness of thought is intelligence.All are one at once you say-no, once you see thought is limited thought ceases to act upon itself.You do not any more seek an answer.That is then observation without an observer.If we so observe without a seperate entity observing we may see.

Can we not break a belief? Please ask a person who believes in God whether he/she can say anythig about God if the person sets aside everythig the person read & heard since birth.If the person is humble & honest the answer will the person doesn't know anything.If you try with several people you will see we can break beliefs without replacing with a another belief.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 05 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: When the motive is to be free of suffering and pain in future, then essence of K's teachings will be missed.

K founded schools in several countries & implored the teachers to educate the children adequately to meet life.

NOW WAS THE ESSENCE OF K's TEACHINGS MISSED WHEN K HIMSELF FOUNDED SCHOOLS & WAS CONCERNED SO MUCH ABOUT THE CHILDREN'S FUTURE?

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 06 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Soham netti wrote: You are just repeating K words.

Dear dear Soham, If you think I am just repeating K's words I am just very glad about it.I am not repeating his words.However to try to prove that will be an ego business.(I think there may be quite a few people who are clear that thought is limited)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 06 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: won't you agree that giving a limited motive to be free from suffering and pain will compromise the 'seeing' right from the start ?

Dear Dr, I was not talking about seeing. School kids may not be aware of the rigours of life. I was saying that kids can be shown that there are two forms of learning so that they are equipped to look at life when they begin to be aware of many aspects of life such as conflict in relationship which cannot be resolved by thought.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 06 Oct 2010
Topic: Identity

ganesan balachandran wrote: without this stock. gb

I must say that's a very nice remark!

nick carter wrote: but you can give them that.

Without the stock?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 07 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Soham netti wrote: This is tragedy. Memorization and then practicing K teachings.Everything are going in psych.Can there be any Ego or psych if one have a single flash of seeing/insight?

Ah, this is memorizing and responding! K did say insight is instantly.K also said, "Sir, you can't do this overnight". In one interview he said you need about 10 years of observation for this!! By this I am not saying this is gradual!This doesn't happen in time. Please find out what it means.Please don't get offended-this is K conditioning!!

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: "Why should one not be disturbed in life ?" K has asked

Did K ever asked that? May be not in the context that we should undergo pain and suffering.Perhaps he meant by questioning life and facing and remaining with the suffering without avoiding and escaping from suffering and pain as is the universal attitude.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: I am taking 'too' of your post as 'two'.

Yes. Sorry.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 09 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Soham netti wrote: Will you provide quote please?

I'll try to find it.I assure you I read it.He said something about it's not his business to go about finding out whether anybody has changed in the same interview-if you too try to find it.

Soham netti wrote: "Please listen

This doesn't contradict the statement that it takes about 10 years of observation. Even if it takes 10years it's still happenig instantly.That's because it's taking place always in the 'now'. Please consider the satatement by K, "Sir, are you prepared to take a very long journey." Now long journey generally implies time. However here it's not that because it's always happenig in the 'now'.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: directly looking at the disturbances or ending them ?

Directly looking at the disturbaces.However we try to analyse & so on when we try to understand things.Futility of this must be clear to look directly.

Forum: General Discussion Sat, 09 Oct 2010
Topic: Identity

Paul Davidson wrote: It is quite a soup!

Beautifully & precisely put! Is the soup fresh?

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 10 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Passive awareness is the key here, won't you agree ?

Yes.Awareness without a seperate entity watching is the key here. But perception affects the thought process.When you say thought process is an unending movement in us this must be the memory in day today functions such as speech, technical things etc.Yes.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 10 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Soham netti wrote: Please listen, one by one..

I think Nick called you a parrot!

I didn't say learning is through a time process-! However Paul is right-it had come to squabbling.So I quit.But I join at some point.

I think Paul's jump is needed.May be you tell him to push you even!

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Paul Davidson wrote: Think of the pressures that K was subjected to before he sat ubder that pepper tree. Years of it!

We can consider action here.Action-acting can only be in the now.We cannot act in the past or in the future.That's impossible.Now when we consider a simple action such as sitting this takes some time-very short in this instance- but achieved by action which is only in the now.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Soham netti wrote: 2.How much time one will take to learn such observation? 10 years?Do it come from practice?

Means decide the ends.Ends can never be devoid of the means.That's impossible.Now any practice, whatever it is,has it's roots in the past.That is if we don't know what to do we cannot practice.To know what to do means related to the past.So any practice, whatever it may be,however widely it may be accepted, cannot bring about a change-impossible.

Observation is not a practice.It is not a time process as it is from moment to moment and nothing is gathered.All these diverse systems of practices many religions advocate today which are totally nonsensical tommy rot are in all probability fairy tales written by people after the original teachers died I think.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 11 Oct 2010
Topic: What is the nature of an ideal?

Grace, can you answer please!-I don't have a pupil!

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 12 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

max greene wrote: is "change" ever at all possible? The past cannot be brought back for anything at all to be done either with it or to it. It's gone. Even the memory of the past cannot be brought forward into the moment and changed. What we think of as "change" is a new creation in the moment based on memory.

Max,

We have anxiety, fear & so on.This is brought about by thinking.Now if this thinking is not there- what will happen in the future & so on can there be anxiety & fear? Can that not be changed?

If thought which is the past looks at anxiety then it is incomplete as thought is ever limited.Then if we look without the past, without the word-so no memory- then there is no interference of the past.Then what is seen is not colored by the past.Will not this seeing which is complete as this seeing is in an undivided state of attention bring about a change-as this is something new.

Does not this phenomenon of seeing without the past exist for us? It must be because there is attention & attention is swifter than thought.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 12 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Soham netti wrote: Are you saying that transformation is similar to physical process?Is there any °c?

Ha Soham! Have you forgetten me?

Do we start questioning life if we are all exuberantly happy & blissful?

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 13 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

max greene wrote: but that a new condition was brought about.

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Doesn't its psychological nature change when such memory is being observed passively ?

Sirs,

We face this moment-the 'now' & then a thought comes up.This thought is the response of the past.This is the memory meeting the present.This thought or image is a modification brought about based on memory.Now cannot this be changed with passive awareness?

A thought comes in to the consciousness means at a certain actual moment the thought is taking place in the consciousness.That is in this 'now' we are talking about it is taking place.Now can we pay attention at that moment? I am not saying after a thought had been formed.-then it is a creation based on memory-if we can use the word creation there.Modification is more apt I feel.

Now can we do that?It is only at that moment a change can be brought about as action is only possible in the 'now'. Is that possible with passive awareness? This is a paradox because as a thought arises if there is awareness then there cannot be thought as thought comes in to being with the dropping of attention! Now what happens if attention is paid as a thought arise? With attention there cannot be recognition thus there cannot be thought!So with this attention at that moment thought undergoes change & this is not based on the past.

This may be the jump Paul talked about here.However this cannot be brought about by will as will is the action of the self as choice- so thought- which is already the operation of the past.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Paul,

Ref my post #71. I meant by passive awareness here the act of awareness reflecting a movement without one thought taking precedence over a another thought.Thus without conflict.Then the content of the consciousness is seen without distortion.Then looking as thought arises amount to asking 'what is the content? ,is the 'me' any different from the content?' This is the gist of it.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Two things can happen now. Attention illuminating the thought when it is arising can abort thought and quite, still mind comes in to being OR

Attention is looking at formed thought recognising its contents in non-verbal manner. This ammounts to there being no verbal reaction to original thought. Do you see it like this ?

There may be a confusion using attention & awareness as synonyms.Now we say we are attentive & also we say we are inattentive. Inattentive is when we are engrossed in thought.And attention is when thought is absent.

Using that definition, looking at formed thought is awareness or observation.That amounts to being aware of the original thought's content & there being no further reaction to it-yes, I also see it that way.

When we say attention illuminating thought then it is actually awareness of thought because if a thought had arisen then there had been inattention for a split second.What I have said is can we look at a thought as it arises-not a split second later because then the past had operated & no change is possible.And what exactly happens if we look at one thought fully?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 14 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

Max,

Act is already caught.I agree. So thought once it comes into being cannot be changed.The past cannot be changed.It's dead & gone.

max greene wrote: Is this act of reference made in the moment, simultaneous with the act of creation? I would say that it is.

Now when you say this this means thought takes place in the consciousness at an actual moment. It has to anyway.So this is as you describe new created from a referral to the past.However the point is it is taking place now and looking at it is possible. Now the question is what happens when we give complete attention to it?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 15 Oct 2010
Topic: How has Krishnamurti's writings improved your life?

max greene wrote: Do you mean now? If so, I wonder if it does. Thought is already created, in existence, and cannot reach forward into the moment

For God's sake Max, how are you thinking? Is your thinking some finished product in the past? All the things in the universe take place at an actual moment.Otherwise it can't be there.

Now there is this 'now' or the moment. At the initial moment there is sensory perception.There is no thought. Then a thought starts coming up.When a thought starts coming up it's a different moment and the thought is taking place at that different moment not in the moment of initial sensory perception.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 15 Oct 2010
Topic: Questioning

When I read your post Rajive I remembered something that struck me while in school.The teacher was teaching something & suddenly I found I was thinking that we were always learning about something someone else did.There was nothing original in what I was doing then.

You have said we must question everything in life.I feel that way too. Do you think we can begin by asking; 'Is there anything original in us,our way of living?'

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 15 Oct 2010
Topic: What do bar us to percept?

Poor Soham! You are here all alone! For weeks!

Is our observation the action of a mirror reflecting everything?Or is it thought trying to do something about our plight?

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 15 Oct 2010
Topic: Influence

Siddarath,

Are you suggesting human beings don't have any intelligence of their own?That they are only conforming?