Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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George Lanroh's Forum Activity | 271 posts in 3 forums


Forum: General Discussion Tue, 21 Jul 2015
Topic: Why I can not get IT

Like wise Dan, thanks for the talk.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 22 Jul 2015
Topic: God intoxicated.

Dan McDermott wrote: but I lean towards K.'s suggestion that we are "nothing" and "no-thing" has no need for any psychological security... although I obviously do.

How do you see this?

Hi Dan, Tom, all.

I totally agree that nothing needs no security such as a higher power. A higher power would be more of the duality that has been holding consciousness hostage for so long. I sense more so we are that higher power or an expression of a higher intelligence parading as us. I sense in my eyes Rajiv said it right a few post back when he said: "You are being danced" no duality in this because creator and creation is one below our unconsciousness of this fact, if we are unconscious of this fact. Dan, this statement of nothing doesn't need any security is right but this "right" is it the outcome of being nothing, non-existent or is it "right" because in truth consciousness at its heart is originally timeless/formless ( Without a self of form). Its not that consciousness does not exist, it is consciousness in the area of form is originally and in essence always without form. I say always without form because any form consciousness identifies with its like clothing that can be taken off so in fact not original to it.

Maybe some or most will not agree with me but I would like to point out freedom is not for the self but from the self of time. This freedom is not for the accumulated self it is for consciousness to be free of the accumulated self of time. Consciousness coming upon its own timeless nature is free of a self of time who needs security from a higher power. One could say consciousness just realized it is the higher power which for a time was involved with the belief that it was a lessor power limited by its own ideas of being a fixed form which in its truth never is. Consciousness is only limited and fixed by its own beliefs that it is as seen here.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 28 Jul 2015
Topic: QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: Do we live this way? (rhetorical question). Why not? Why do all our actions have an end in view? Why the constant struggle to achieve?

We always come from a place of having identity. In less consciousness/you get in touch with your unborn nature the anew that Krishnamurti spoke of, one will always be a prisoner of past accumulations, the lot of the mind has never been cleared. Tom, Krishnamurti in your quote spoke about freedom and he also spoke about creation. Can there be a creation that is completely free without the creator its self being free from all preconceived images of ones own identity? As seen here the first conscious creation of a creator such as yourself is to invent ones own identity and be conscious of such an invention. After that all down stream creations are going to orbit the self image one has manufactured out of thin air.

As Krishnamurti said "truth is a pathless land". I sense it is a good idea to apply this truth to ones self first. This will set the stage, this will set the truth that all of psychological creation including ones own identity is written on thin air.

Here one can see if looked at closely that any struggle psychologically speaking is because one has forgot that one has created a role one is now playing in a world one keeps afloat only through beliefs, a great game, yet the fun ends when the game becomes truth and not a fabrication.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 29 Jul 2015
Topic: QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: What else could be 'inventing one's own identity' but thought? Isn't the idea of a creator another thought?

Hi Tom

Consciousness must be present earlier then thought to witness the activities of thought. In these eyes you will not find anything earlier then you as the conscious presence residing in the human body. As see here all identities and the associated psychological problems which are attached to having a story about ourselves end with consciousness/you awakening to your original timeless nature.

If one can say we should not organize ourselves beyond knowing that we are the perpetual anew if it is seen that it doesn't matter what role we put on its not the absolute truth of our existence. To me the truth is our unconditional freedom at the heart of our very being. The only reason we are not anew each moment is due to what we ourselves carry forward from moment to moment.

Where I part from many Krishnamurti readers is I do not negate ourselves as being the presence in the body which is conscious awareness its self. I say you can negate everything but you cannot negate the presence/you in which the negation is taking place before.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 29 Jul 2015
Topic: QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: What you say may be true, George, that one is 'the presence...which is conscious awareness', but this conscious awareness does not seem to help man solve his problems.

Hi Tom

Look what you have done here. You said "conscious/awareness does not seem to help man with his problems".

Conscious/awareness when awakened to its true nature that of timelessness, it exist before/earlier then the rise of a self image with problems. An awakened conscious/awareness to its original timelessness does not get involved with the false mirage of being a person with such and such a problem. You must admit we see the false self image we have identified with in some shape or form over and over again and keep on chasing the mirage, I find myself doing it also. THe sense here is that we must see it over and over again, we are hard headed, we all are. We must see it over and over again till we break through our conditioning that of being a human being with problems to awakening to the fact that being a human being is a story we as consciousness picked up through conditioning but it is not the fundamental truth of our perpetual unborn nature. I say perpetual unborn nature because it does not matter what robes we put on we will never be in truth the psychological clothing that we wear.

I think it is quite a find to come upon being nobody or anything. You may say "well George you still say we are consciousness?". This I say because with the maturity of consciousness, the awakening of its intelligence as to its original timelessness, we no longer unconsciously pick up and play a role. Now if we play a role we do so with the full understanding that we have no appearance outside or separate from the one we are playing. You may say "I am" this you know for sure, anything else beyond "I am" is a fabrication. Because the self of time is a fabrication doesn't mean that its evil, it only means that it is being created by an underling intelligence seeking to express its self through a dimension we call psychological time. Just think an intelligence/you that has no physical form and can only be seen by its activities has used the accumulation of concepts ideas and beliefs to forge an image where it had none. Amazing, awareness/consciousness climbed out of the unknown on the ladder of time and sad to say has become so completely identified with the images it has collected that if the image should die it is felt conscious/awareness dies also. Yet we can see that all images we have collected over the years have come and gone redecorated and still the underling witness to these changes has never left. I think it is a good exercise, I know it has been here, to surrender to the tide of life with all its changes. I see now the importance of surrendering to 'what is' because in surrendering the past is ushered out in order for the anew to break through once again. In essence our surrender to change is a sure indicator of our realization of the truth of our own timeless original nature. The true meaning as seen here to: You must be born again in order to see the kingdom of heaven. The kingdom of heaven in the case of this thread is one is constantly dying to being a particular person with particular problems. Its not easy, its not easy here ether. But how many times must we chase a mirage before we get tired of eating sand? He he he :) remember as consciousness if you have a self don't be on this mission of awakening for him, that is called awakening within the dream which is not an awakening at all. But when you as consciousness wakeup without a self, that's awakening :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 29 Jul 2015
Topic: QOTD

max greene wrote: Seems to me this consciousness would be awareness, pure and simple.

Hi Max

Aware pure and simple, aware of what? Consciousness as us as seen here is discovering a whole world not separate from its self. As seen here everything taking place within and on the stage of consciousness does not get past the watchful eye of the director. There is not even a director till consciousness asks "Who am I?" If the answer comes forward the "director" consciousness just invented not only its self as the director but also what the role of the director is. I think often we forget that till a self is invented there is no self in time that is. I do not believe this negates the timeless presence of consciousness as the source of both the director and the play/story that is about to be played out.

Max to me any positive statement at all points to a speaker behinds the words even if the words are negating the speakers existence its self. What is awareness pure and simple? "Raise one particle of dust and the whole world appears" or in other words as soon as you define awareness you have already hinted of a presence creating a world out of time and space as building blocks.

I do think you statement is correct that awareness is pure and simple. Like a reflection in a mirror. Once the image being reflected is described as to what it is pure and simple is lost and invention comes in pointing to and underling presence climbing out of the unknown and into the known on the back of time.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 29 Jul 2015
Topic: QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: Are you saying this is a creation of an 'underlying intelligence'? That makes no sense.

The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Or in the case of ourselves we are divided in the way of creator being separate from creation. We have created the whole structure of self and the world the self walks upon and we operate as if we have nothing to do with our own self concept and the world concept we live in. So your right there doesn't seem to be any intelligence behind all this. But this presupposes that we are not in the middle of waking up and assumes we are completed awake and we have arrived at total understanding.

The sense here is we are only beginning to wakeup and seeing the mess that we are in is part of the awakening process. With any awakening there would be those like Krishnamurti that would be on the edge of such a discovery and people like us who are the first to be attracted to what is outside the box. One may say George there has been many interested for maybe 2000 thousand years. 2000 or 4000 thousand years maybe a small amount of chronological time in the total awakening of consciousness. Remember for consciousness Tom is just one passing identity out of countless others. I hate to say this Tom but like George your nothing special, what is special is the consciousness that may of once played Cesar is now playing Tom. So it will never be Cesar, George or Tom who wakes up, it will be consciousness who will become conscious that the name is never the thing. When consciousness awakens to it being the source of both self image and world view then it will be able to come and go as it pleases and never be stuck in a world of its own making.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 30 Jul 2015
Topic: QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: Are you saying that consciousness needs to wake up to the mess that it itself has created?

Hi Tom

We as the consciousness residing in the human body begin life by being conditioned. We are slapped with a label our name and are fully programmed with a world picture according to our ancestors plus or minus the evolution of the total collective picture. Now as I see it and I will agree with Krishnamurti that we are conditioned through and through. This is the reason as seen here for all the ugliness in the world we are all becoming blindly in a world of psychological time. As seen here the awakening of intelligence is when what K pointed out as we stop living secondhand. To do this we must be able to step out of the world we have been conditioned to have, we must be able to step out of our own self image which was given to us. Once we do this if need be we can return to the world of time created by our ancestors visit friends and loved ones and maybe hint to a promise land, the land before time :)

So how does one wakeup? There maybe many ways but for most of us it is through self enquiry into the nature of our world and into our own self concepts. Sooner or later we have blown enough holes in our world and self portraits that the whole thing begins to crumble. This is were in these eyes many turn back out of fear of annihilation. It is here if one stays it will be found out if ones image falls apart one still is. But it is also here out of ego protection the most stones are thrown in the bushes to take us of track. One of the biggest stones thrown in the bushes is "look at the state of affairs in the world all the ugliness and all that how can consciousness allow this to happen and have it be intelligence? Here is the smoke and mirrors, with such a statement notice how one is no longer talking about a world fabricated out of psychological time we are speaking about problems within the world of time its self. Some how we need to keep focused on the fact that we as consciousness have invented this world of time and the hero who is climbing the becoming ladder, the reason for the ugliness. If we can step outside and remain outside the world of time long enough maybe we can come upon a game which the kids got way to serious and found it worth killing each other over.

If one is outside the game for a moment and seeing things clearly one sees the other children/adults inviting one to play a game which the others are calling real life. They say there will be winners and losers and that you have no choice that you must play. This is only partly true, give onto Cesar what is Cesar's because you see the necessity of it at this time, then go on with the truth you discovered that man is wasting a lot of energy in empty pursuits. If you feel compelled and I don't see how one can't be, hint to others by your embodiment of the truth you have seen.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 18 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Aseem Kumar wrote: Our inevitable, repeated failure in resolving or breaking through this living issue of 'duality' could mean that we might be doing something fundamentally wrong in taking on it.

Any input on this?

Hello Aseem

The sense here is accumulated content is not the problem. In truth for a consciousness awakened to its original neutrality there is no problem but for purposes of our exchange lets just say the problem is consciousness is unconscious of its own eternal timelessness. When I say eternal what I mean is identification requires the belief/unconsciousness or creative expression of consciousness, its play in order for consciousness to maintain an identity. It does not matter how identification is taking place the fact remains that the unreal, the intangible will decay and crumble over chronological time.

As seen here a total transformation of consciousness can take place, if consciousness, if just for a moment can step out of all personhood. Consciousness must become aware that even though one has surrendered up every form of attachment that it is still there though without a form identity. From here which is actually nowhere consciousness must realize the world does not rise separate from its movement into identifications and attachments, here is where the duality ends. My old friend it has been seen here that any and I mean any disturbance upon ones beingness as consciousness is always the outcome of consciousness being unconscious of its original and eternal timeless state. But of course you may have heard our original nature is like a diamond dropped in the mud, the mud may obscure our original transparency like the diamond in mud but below the diamond remains forever true to its nature. Are we being true to our nature? The sense here is if we are upset, disturbed, rattled, we have taken time as our true nature and not timelessness. All this keeping in mind any organization of what timelessness is is written upon the pages of time and an unconscious moment for consciousness. Can one say " Being in any form is time". Isn't being awake or asleep by consciousness expressed by ones awareness of the prison developing with any and all accumulation of forms, ideas, concepts and beliefs? Not that as consciousness we should not create, play in time. We need just be aware that a world is rising not separate from our play or unconsciousness of accumulating beliefs. Here one prefers the peace of the awareness of nonduality :)

It is admitted here at times, maybe through habitual habit, one finds ones self asleep, only awakened by an old factual memory of ones essence, that of timelessness.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 19 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Aseem Kumar wrote: This factor is at the core of man's living in/with 'duality'. If this issue of "promptly making this or the other thought induced effort to keep self happy, satisfied and fulfilled." could be resolved satisfactorily in human psyche, then perhaps the seed of understanding of being free of negative effects of duality will get implanted.

I always enjoy speaking with you as I do with all the members here. You and I are on the same page in seeing the collective human dilemma.

Yet even though we humans have been struggling with this dilemma for thousands of years our collective awakening is in its infancy. Sure a few humans excel like Krishnamurti being that they are at the forefront of this movement to become self aware as consciousness, yet for the rest of us we are feeling a lot of growing pains. Am I saying we are evolving? Yes and no, no because as you know this is not about becoming psychologically speaking, but yet we are evolving in our separate and collective discovery of oneness.

I had a beautiful experience in recent weeks, at least for me. I was unconscious of my attachment to my present and past life with my wife and children, I was also unconscious of my resistance to change at its most subtle level. My original unconditioned presence seemed to rise up through all these limitations inviting me to transcend them by leaving them behind, not my wife or my children but to my habitual habit of resistance to change and the avoidance of embracing "what is" in all its freshness. Aseem, I think I maybe becoming a lover of "what is" instead of trying to box the world into my expectations.

I do know your thread invites the reader much deeper into our shared problem of duality but above I just wanted to take a moment and share the joy seeing can bring.

Can I tell you a story about a preacher who was learning to give a sermon at a school for future spiritual leaders. He got up before an audience and explained that he was becoming a knight to do God's work and bit by bit piece by piece he explained to the Christian audience as he simulated putting on his armored suit to fight for God and slay the devil. When he finished putting on his armored he held up his sword and called out "I'm ready where is the devil" A man in the audience called out "In the armored suit!" This is the nonduality I sense you are attempting to convey, that as long as we have a self which is lacking we will always be unconscious of the self we are unconsciously projecting within the armored suit. In truth there is no quest and no one to take up the quest, its all a journey of psychological time with consciousness as its witness. It is up to us as consciousness to become aware of just how caught up in the story we are going to become. To sit for a moment without a story and then watch one as it is born and then step out is to come upon maybe for the first time what Krishnamurti spoke about when he said: His interest was in setting man unconditionally free. You and I both know that even though a man maybe set unconditionally free really there was never a man to set free, the mind/consciousness is just no longer in it :)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 25 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Sean Hen wrote: Hello again Aseem. From what you've written, you seem to be implying that you have gone through this whole process. If not, this is just a theory. Are you saying that you are free of thought, of the known?

Hello Sean, Aseem and all.

I hope you don't mind if I jump in and say something here. Over the years I have observed a road block here at Kinfonet and other locations of enquiry regarding who or what is free of the known. Often though it is not the case here and now, someone who has given the impression of freedom is met with jealousy and or attack and last deserved skepticism. The sense here is as long as the presence of consciousness which is inhabiting a particular body is limited through its conditioning that of being a particular person with its particular problems that consciousness will forever be limited by its own unseen assumptions associated with psychological time. If you notice most if not all enquiries begin from the point of view of being a person caught up in psychological time. As seen and felt here is as long as we start in time we will remain in time.

Maybe you have heard this before about a shift in consciousness from it being identified with psychological time to it being aware of its true nature that of timelessness. If we use our old brain to think about this we unconsciously attempt to conceptualize what this means missing the fact that we as consciousness just brought time back in. The old brain and its programming just can't wrap its self around what absolute and complete timelessness means for the conscious presence that you are. It means psychologically speaking "from the first not a thing is" What exactly does this mean? It means that from the first there is no you and no world, there is only consciousness unborn to time.

Maybe you have heard the ancient expression: "Raise one particle of dust and the whole world appears." When you as consciousness identify with the first notion of who and what you are that one particle of dust has risen and the whole psychological world will rise like your self image in time. I do not want to ramble on to much here but as long as we as a consciousness are unconsciously identified with time we will rightfully ask questions and look for results which accord with our assumptions. Yet if one is free of thought it is not that someone is free as seen here. It is that the presence of consciousness is free of being a particular person and that its self is consciousness free of the known and also free to walk in and out of the known dimension, that of time.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 25 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Aseem Kumar wrote: One is capable of observing the arising of thought, but only as 'thinker' who, in turn, acts on thought to produce a chain reaction of one thought following another. The main problem in becoming free of this 'chain' is that one has to come to an end as 'thinker' which means "I/you" entity coming to an end, but who is ready and willing for this? :)

Yes come to an end as being the thinker, come to the end of being anything. Yet one is still there and observed that one had identified as being the thinker. What happens old friend if there is not one identity that one can identify with which is not ones movement into time? Is it that the creation of the world psychologically speaking is not separate from one own activities as consciousness. I do not sense we can negate consciousness because consciousness would have to be to negate consciousness. I guess what I am saying is consciousness as ourselves is earlier then any and all time and must be there as it is to witness the slightest movement into identity by its self. If one is awake one understands that anything beyond "I am" is time/creation.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 25 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Sean Hen wrote: You talk about "someone who has given the impression of freedom". I wonder if you would like to elaborate on that? How does one give that impression?

I sense one gives the impression that one is not a captive of psychological time when that speaker is using time instead of what commonly happens time is using the speaker. Time for the purpose of our talk can only use a solid object :) Time uses our assumptions about ourselves. To say uses maybe a poor choice of words, maybe I should say when we as consciousness believe ourselves to be solid through our false identifications with time/form our beliefs allow us to be bumped and pushed, triggered emotionally due to our beliefs in our identifications. A speaker who has no such solid identification has the current of time as if pass right through them giving once again the impression and at times the factual impression that they are free of time. I would like to say being free of time is moment to moment and is based more on where the seat of consciousness is emanating from at a particular moment. If I can give you my sense for conversational purposes anything beyond "I am" as consciousness is role play and identification. If one is in this seat and are conscious of this fact that all identification by consciousness is conscious or unconscious role play then my fellow speaker and myself would be on the same page.

Absolute equals we all are as consciousness. The only difference between an awakened consciousness and a sleeping one is an awakened one understands by some means, most often grace, that from the first not a thing is.

One is not trapped, sleeping, divided, conflicted or anything, one is completely happy full of joy and free. This is what I call these days our natural state as consciousness. To be unhappy, to be divided, conflicted we need to of picked up and purchased through our beliefs a particular picture of our world and ourselves, one that is not to happy. Yes :) Being happy and joyful are states of mind in time also when they are manufactured. The joy I am speaking about here is not the outcome of any positive or negative move, more so a light bulb moment like understanding not to chase mirage, better yet finding out till one as consciousness identifies with being a person there is no one to chase mirages :) From here the sense is one needs to get the feel of being in the world but not being in it. An example: A man is recklessly driving down the street yelling the sky is falling, one still needs to get out of the way even though one knows he is under the spell of time. With all the becoming going on in the world by consciousness's unconscious of their identifications with time we all still need to get out of the way. The sense here in truth the only good way to share the good news that the sky is not falling is to be still an unmoved and show by example that only facts move us and not assumptions, ideas and unconscious identifications in the most compassionate and understanding way possible.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 25 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Sean Hen wrote: We are all here to learn and understand (I think) so a certain amount of questioning may help understanding if it does not lead to offence. Would you agree with that?

Completely, what becomes difficult is when a speaker or a listener which should alternate, if one or both become unconscious of their intentions and the intentions become a witch hunt performed by unconscious ego identifications or a speaker forgets to be a listener and also becomes unconscious of ego identifications, then it becomes a slumber party :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 26 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Wim Opdam wrote: Hi George, Nice description of the state of oneness.

Hi Wim

Something I seen in mans dualistic relationship with God. God in the Christian belief system sends down his only son, a son yet the son is not separate from God.

In what I have written above one can take notice that we as consciousness sends out our son (the ego) and our son (the ego) is not separate from its source, we as consciousness. Yet we have become so identified with our off spring we forget we have manufactured this identity through conditioning and or becoming. The thing I notice here is we forget that we are the source of the ego and not really the ego. I sense enquiry into our true nature is to remember once again what we once new, that we are the source of ego and not really the intangible ego in which we woke up and found ourselves playing.

I do enjoy and that is why I am sharing it with you how man through is stories (the bible) bubble up analogies of his inner condition which translates into his outward condition due to the oneness of inner and outer.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 26 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Aseem Kumar wrote: When one recognizes that "consciousness as ourselves" is something different in essence or structure or content from "consciousness as time", don't you think that thought movement has already in action as knowledge of "I/self"?

Hi Aseem

Yes, I do sense that thoughts movement has already in action as knowledge of "I/self when any arrival at a self image of consciousness is performed by consciousness. In the end one must arrive at a mystery that one fully understand the importance of leaving it a mystery. If as if one is happy being nothing yet alive and kicking knowing that any movement from this nothing is an involvement with psychological time. One no longer fears or does not fear time, one is free to create and express with time but is no longer a prisoner of the duality when creator only appeared to be separate creation.

Often what I write here appears so radicle to a consciousness that has become so unquestionably identified with our collective conditioning. "What do you mean I am not a person?" As your aware I am just pointing toward just how subtle our assumptions are and how these basic assumptions filter and control all other aspects of our thoughts. If one could say anything one is closer to being an anomaly then a person built out of a bundle of conceptualizations :) Ah! the mystery of a voice rising from emptiness, a voice not separate in form from the identifications in which it climbs out of emptiness upon. Aseem as your aware, look for the self separate from forms and you will come up empty, yet that emptiness is full of a creator which cannot be seen separate from his/her creations.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 26 Aug 2015
Topic: Breaking Through The "Duality"

Aseem Kumar wrote: So, a person living in time or first projecting and then finding 'timeless/true consciousness state' will continue to live in time. Do you see any other way for him of inquiring to get different result?

No, to exist or be in the world of form one must use time as its building blocks. Yet as seen here there is a great difference between the consciousness which is aware of its movement from the timeless to the timeless playing and expressing its self in time, that difference is the seriousness in which all of time is taken. If you insult my ego you are not insulting me, if you tell my ego its world view is distorted and is full of illusions I as consciousness will agree with you. If you say from your true self that from the first not a thing is including both yours and my self images and would I like to have a cup of tea and laugh at the whole thing I am with you. If you also say it is tragic all the unconscious becoming and our world is in great danger due to the duality of self and world I would completely agree with you :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 26 Aug 2015
Topic: Is there a God?

Question: May we request you to state clearly whether there is God or not?

Krishnamurti Quote of the Day | Aug 26, 2015

God/consciousness first gets lost in playing the ego and then goes on ask from the position of the ego if there is a God.

Does anyone else here see mans relationship that with his lord, the problem of his separation, to be symbolic of his own mad idea of being the ego instead of being consciousness playing through and as the ego. The ending of the separation between the father and the son, consciousness and ego is played out symbolically in Jesus's death on the cross, in his death father and son are united and the sin of separation is ended.

As seen here with a little bit of looking one can come upon many religious symbols and analogies representing our own divided predicament. Example: The eating of the tree of knowledge and man loosing sight of the fact that he never left heaven physically, he only left psychologically when he moved into time and took the map for the actual territory. Any thoughts on this ?

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 27 Aug 2015
Topic: Is there a God?

mike c wrote: He prays to it, lives and dies by the image of it, but rarely investigates it. He creates duality in his imagination of "God", and so keeps the door closed to any contact with whatever state that may be.

Hi Mike

Yes, I must admit I had my suspicions but only after a few hints from those who had studied this phenomenon before me was it to become more clear to me. I look forward to other works by man giving up the ghost of their essence in the future :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Sep 2015
Topic: A few quotes on desire

mike c wrote: To be clear in one's intentions is quite an arduous task; intention is as a flame, ceaselessly urging one to understand.

Hi Mike

Often I begin a given moment by attempting to observe, pay attention to the root of my intentions. When I begin to observe my root attentions what comes forward for me to see is the identity I am presently identifying with. For me my intentions represent my movement from timeless presence (our unborn true nature) to this nature of ours identifying with a self image in time (our born nature). For me (the presence of awareness) which inhabits a given human body its the difference between heaven and earth, peace or conflict if one is aware of ones true nature, that of being psychologically timeless and that of moving into time and creating an avatar to express ones creative abilities. These to aspects of ourselves time and the timeless, born and unborn natures seem to most often operate under the radar screen of our awareness. Observing our intentions is like finding out that the footprints that we have been following are our own. Yet one also comes upon that if one removes ones psychological shoes one walks without leaving a single print upon the earth, yet one is still here if that makes sense.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Sep 2015
Topic: A few quotes on desire

max greene wrote: The psychological -- thinking, thought, the thinker (self) -- are imaginations of the physical brain. They are given reality through belief.

Hi Max

Yes, but by who or what's belief? For me it is the awareness (you and I) which inhabit the human body who's beliefs are required in order for the avatar to take hold and remain present. This avatar as seen here can manifest through unconscious conditioning or the avatar can be used as an extension of ones self by conscious awareness, an awareness which has awakened to its true nature that of having no permanent form. Form and limitation is only as solid and as permanent as the insight has been for the awareness within, as seen here.

Max, I would like to end this reply with my words pointing to the fact that we as the awareness inhabiting the human body can have no permanent or any form which is not fabricated being that it is impossible to shake off the truth of our original emptiness when it comes to having any type of form in relationship to our true identity. This here is the reason it is seen that as self image cannot be organized and be our truth. Our truth is to be free of time or use time, its not to be captive by making it permanent. In truth what would become permanent but our own collected ideas about ourselves :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 09 Sep 2015
Topic: A few quotes on desire

max greene wrote: . Belief is of the physical brain.

Hi Max

Our outlook on the human condition is not that far apart. Yet as they say it is only a hairs difference between being in heaven (at peace) and Hell ( the chasing of ones own tail) and not knowing it. And of course old friend nothing is implied as to which state if any state of mind your in :)

I see the brain as completely mechanical, a recording device incapable of having its own beliefs or any beliefs. I see beliefs as awareness's inability to be the anew its true nature demands. Max, I don't know if awareness can do more then intuit its true nature and come to the understanding that for awareness there is no permanent identity in which it can honestly hang its hat upon. At times it is enough here to know one is the presence behind any and all roles one is temporarily playing and the empty presence of being when one is not playing.. If one ask why play? hasn't the game of unconsciousness for awareness already begun? With a question hasn't the questioner just been born not separate from the question? As seen here awareness must of consciously or unconsciously gotten involved with time for a question to have been born. As in my first response to Mike attention to the root of a question shows evidence of some form of involvement by awareness with psychological time and identity.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 10 Sep 2015
Topic: A few quotes on desire

Tom Paine wrote: It's the brain that thinks, right?

Hi Tom

As seen here the brain contains conditioning/memory but is it also the source of the purchaser of beliefs? Sure the purchaser may dwell in the location of the brain yet the purchaser to exist does not depend on any particular purchase of a belief.

Something that gets bypassed on this forum everyday is the fact that everything is a map of an unknown territory call our human life. We think we may have it close, we think our description is pretty close to the physical and psychological world in which we live in. The sense here is even though we can predict often the results of cause and effect and their oneness we are not even close in seeing the world and ourselves the way we actually are. If we were we would understand that outside of being the awareness which inhabits the human body all else and I mean all else is belief or in some cases conscious fabrication or agreeing and using existing fabrications for the benefit of a structured functioning society. I sense one problem we have because we forget that absolutely everything outside awareness is fabricated, (the map we are talking about here) we forget that its not concrete and its only our ignorance to this fact that keeps us between the wall of time, this includes our own self image.

If for a moment we could allow our whole world view including our self image to fall we would come upon the dream we as awareness have been supporting. Its not so bad to be supporting a dream it is just so sad when we are not conscious to the fact that without our purchase, our buy in the dream is not possible. Being conscious of the human creations in time and using them instead of them using us appears to me to be the awakening of intelligence by awareness. Outside of awareness as seen here there is no self separate from the idea/image presented.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Sep 2015
Topic: A few quotes on desire

Dan McDermott wrote: And how totally we have become conditioned to believing in this reality, so fraught with anxiety, care and desire.

Hi Dan

Yes this present reality we are most likely taking for the only true reality is no different then the reality in which our fellow man is taking for the only true reality. In truth possible realities are unlimited and yet as you say:

Dan McDermott wrote: And given the mystery and the miracle of life, what a completely mundane existance we've settled for.

Dan, in truth the sense here is, it is only the unconsciousness off these projected realities being at one with their creator in the way of invention or accepted unconscious authority which turns it into the mundane. If one is conscious to the fact that one lives secondhand or is unconscious to the fact that one is the creator behind the self which walks ones invented reality, yes life becomes mundane. But if one is fully conscious of the oneness between creator, self and present reality, what an awesome adventure.

Special note: One wrote above that being conscious of what is going on makes it an awesome adventure. I am reminding myself here that nothing escapes the oneness off ourselves and the world we presently find ourselves in. In other words the organization of awakening into an awesome adventure does not exist outside the rules of oneness regarding creator and creation :)

From the first not a thing is.

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 11 Sep 2015
Topic: A few quotes on desire

Dan McDermott wrote: To delve deep into it is not another desire, for it has no motive;

In your quote of Krishnamurti above we all most likely started with motives. Maybe it is your sense also. We start do to our conditioning with motives and as we begin to see the emptiness of our self image and thought generated realities our motives start to fall away till one day we find ourselves as the awareness unassociated with time and able to enquire into the nature of structures like desire. Then desire is not something that we have, it is a structure that without our consciousness of its nature has us. Just how it is seen here.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Sep 2015
Topic: On Duality...another QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: Thus the mind divides itself, creates within itself a dual process. All effort on the part of the mind must maintain this duality, though it may develop tendencies, characteristics, virtues, to overcome that very duality.

The presence of awareness within comes to understand becoming in any way in the end breeds suffering. What it most often misses is that even in the action of watching observing becoming in the positive direction is stopped, maybe. But becoming is still happening in lets say the negative direction of the not becomer so there is still becoming. As seen here, it is only when any and all becoming both positively or negatively is seen as ones self as awareness joining up with time is time truly seen as an avatar/self image one is consciously or unconsciously constructing. One always says here that its a night and day difference between an awareness that is aware of its true nature that of timelessness and an awareness unconsciously speaking from a position cloaked in time. Any comments?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 15 Sep 2015
Topic: On Duality...another QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: George Lanroh wrote: What it most often misses is that even in the action of watching observing becoming in the positive direction is stopped, maybe. But becoming is still happening in lets say the negative direction of the not becomer so there is still becoming.

Tom Paine wrote: In observation, why do you say becoming continues, George? Observation without the observer is a state of non-becoming...free of time...as I see it.

Hi Tom

Because in almost every case the observer is organized, an identity of the observer begins to form unbeknown to that particular presence of awareness inhabiting a particular body. How else do replies with intent to insult like the one quoted below take place if it is not coming forth from a presence with an ego accumulation?

Pavil Davidov wrote: George . . . consult a gibberish detector before pressing "post."

If we do not see we have established a center giving rise to particular motive (insults) then even if we can observe the need not to become we are still becoming. This is why I so often point here to the great difference between absolute and complete understanding that any and all sense of self is time, there is no escaping the fact that to exist is to appear in some form of a time identity or another. It is a great trick and it can be done, that of seeing one is at one with what one is doing and saying in the present moment. There is no self in these eyes separate from the doer within in the present moment. So when we insult our fellow man that is our perfume, that is our present body and form. The wonderful thing is each moment we have the opportunity to make a new appearance, appear in a different way. What is needed is to become conscious of the oneness of the doer and the done, the speaker and what is said.

I do hope my reply does not hijack your thread. All was written to make a point not talk gibberish :)

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Sep 2015
Topic: On Duality...another QOTD

Dan McDermott wrote: Problems with my computer. So I don't know if I can post this. But what you are saying is quite remarkable and I have asked you in the past if this realisation of 'awareness' moving back and forth between 'self' happened in you incrementely or over time. Forgive me if this is too personal but you are the only one here speaking with this voice.

Hi Dan

Over time in the sense that negation of the false was what lead to an aha experience of timelessness, timelessness being ones original nature. This can be a little confusing because when one is speaking of ones true self here I am speaking of one being the awareness which inhabits a human body. It is this awareness which has the true nature of timelessness. From this point as seen here any form one consciously or unconsciously takes is a time body for the lack of better words. We as awareness have no place to hang our hats/rest which is not some form we are identifying with. Even identifying with being awareness free of time is to organize some form of an image. As intuited and felt here, once we come upon our nature as awareness stripped of any accumulated identity, we have the opportunity to choose in relationship to our seeing how we are going to are not going to appear. Krishnamurti chose to appear as the speaker in an attempt to appear stripped from any unnecessary identity. This allowed him to remain close to the truth of his existence and share this truth as close as possible, this is how he is seen here. I can only say this: After seeing what I spoke of above I have never found myself as awareness so concretely identified with a given image that I could not step out of it. It being any given story the mind has produced to limit me as awareness.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Sep 2015
Topic: On Duality...another QOTD

Tom Paine wrote: Some of what you wrote may have been unclear and the wording or punctuation confusing, but a simple reply asking you to clarify what you wrote would have sufficed.

Yes, throwing the truth on the table my education has a lot of holes in it, to many reasons to count. Its always appreciated the extra effort a person can give. In our business, the business of understanding our nature, the important thing is in the end that we are at peace. On that note the sense here is peace is our natural state. Unhappiness outside of poor health is the outcome of falling for some story about our self and our world and our unconsciousness of being afflicted with said story, especially the story of who we are in this moment. If we are conscious of how we are appearing and its nature we don't even have to step out of it, it just dissolves as seen here.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 16 Sep 2015
Topic: On Duality...another QOTD

mike c wrote: I think one needs a great bit of doubt in these matters. It is so easy to deceive oneself.

Hi Mike

Yes it is easy to deceive oneself. That is why I insist that being and time for awareness are one and the same. In other words there is only lying for awareness when it comes to identity. Its hard for us to grasp that we as awareness have no identity that any identity we assume is a fabrication. If any identity is a fabrication any situation this identity finds its self in is a fabrication.

This does point to the truth of the statement that creator and creation are one. Its as if the one who pulls the rabbit out of the hat is the rabbit :) We are being asked to stand on our own shoulders in order to see ourselves.