Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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George Lanroh's Forum Activity | 271 posts in 3 forums


Forum: General Discussion Tue, 16 Apr 2013
Topic: Using Words To Hurt Another

Mina Martini wrote: Just an example of returining back to this realisation that no one is separate.

It appears that peace, the lack of conflict, nothing psychologically lacking was and is eternal. Could it be such perfection was boring. Why else would we create roles for our fellow men/women to fail at? It can be noticed that the roles we deal out are manufactured and are not of the world which needs no creation. How can our fellow man be separate if it is not the measure of his performance within the roles we projected. What if the roles are removed and he/she cannot fail us. All this takes some chronological time to realize and prior to that makes one appear hypocritical when actions seems to disregard insight. Sad at times that it is actions which can focus enough attention to bring about insight though at times after action. Is there ever a time when our fellow mans actions are not of our own projections? There does seem to be at times actions coming from our fellow man which seem to be of no other motive then to disrupt.

Forum: General Discussion Wed, 17 Apr 2013
Topic: Using Words To Hurt Another

Satya Prakash wrote: What gives depth/charecter of insight to an observation?

Its coming of a surprise that what gives depth is not intellectual conclusions but the freedom from them. Between replies to you Satya I took my dog for a walk. A neighbor who stops me all most every morning who is maybe a little mentally challenged ( Lets don't get into that :) and lives alone with their aging mother without a car and living a distance from town, stops me to maybe break up the monotony of the day and also just say hello. Two women living alone and challenged by age and other challenges I try to help them when I can. At the same time just moving in a few months ago and their needs expanding I found myself on the watch for becoming their handyman. As I walked by this morning as usual she came out said hello gave me a smile and then asked if I could take her to the post office. Some pretty strange but not unusual thoughts came up like: I don't want to start this, maybe I am getting to close and maybe I do not want to get that close to an aging woman and a challenged woman. The insight which next appeared seem to have character/depth. It was the seeing that what was coming up was an artificial boundary line of conditioned thought which I had identified with as my own voice of who and what I was. But there is this other presence which is not of that voice which understood only that a person needed a ride to the post office to pickup a package, that's all nothing more. It is that person who is leaving now to give a neighbor a ride. More now the voice is seen not as ones own but of the past pushing in on the present. Boy I wish I had the gift for putting things into words that some members do :)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 18 Apr 2013
Topic: Using Words To Hurt Another

Satya Prakash wrote: --The word in bold is the essence of your response, isn't it, George? Don't you feel that rest all that you wrote is a try to explain what was happening in your mind?

Yes the word in bold (seeing) seeing the past encroaching upon the present acting as a template of how the present moment should on fold. And when it does not unfold according to the template coming from the past my day is not going well and unhappiness follows. It is the seeing that is important and not the becoming of self, another template from the past which if not followed disappointment comes in. It is notice that all this template building coming from the past we call it our thoughts, thinking, really it is just the stream of human common collective consciousness which is common to all of us because with a good look we are all mostly acting like puppets to its pulling of strings. I sense this goes on till the seeing of its template placed in the present moment. The seeing and the saying to ones self that no template is going to rule the wonder of this day shattering the past of being an authority. Thanks for helping me see this.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 18 Apr 2013
Topic: Using Words To Hurt Another

Satya Prakash wrote: Could one say that action of intelligence can not be determined/fixed in advance?

Suppose you had not been able to take the old lady to post office, would that necessarily have been an action not of intelligence/love/compassion?

Yes, today I am seeing that any action coming from a mind which is fixed, the fixed is the voice of the past encroaching upon the present moment. Thinking that one had to take the woman to the post office regardless of circumstances is to heed the template produced out of the past which is effectively announcing what kind of a person I am. One must learn that this announcement is meaningless, that we only bow down to the past because it for the lack of better words is a false idol.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 18 Apr 2013
Topic: Meeting in the Unknown

B Teulada wrote: «Truth is a science. Its details need to be logically and rationally followed just as any other science. Up to the point where it itself takes over and a person becomes one with it.»

Its as if to close one door and open another when a flow is still in motion, one must be careful to balance the change. In essence we are rewiring our brains through enquiry. I do not know of the absolute truth but I seen a documentary which said that the cerebral cortex had a particular change common to yogi's, monks, masters and the like. That self enquiry did make physical changes upon the brain. The show was called inner worlds outer worlds shown on topdocumentary.com Hope I got that right. Who knows maybe that was what was going on in K's head with his pain, the physical change that is.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 18 Apr 2013
Topic: Meeting in the Unknown

B Teulada wrote: is it what they call kundalini?

There was a small mention of Kundalini energy. If I can remember right Kundalimi was likened to the energy common and behind all things and all things being different frequencies of vibration giving the apprarance of form. It gave this writer the impression that the great ocean often talked about in Buddhism is Kundalini energy and frequency, vibrations, are behind any waves and even the production of human form. Sticking my neck out far one gets the notion that upon seeing the fall of our whole universe as an image is maybe like coming upon kundalini energy without the slightest ripple/vibration. I have to share with you and wonder if seeing cause and effect as one and becoming still is not the calming of the Kundalini pool of energy. Admiting here one is only sharing what seems to becoming through the lines of many fingers pointing and it maybe inaccurate. Like sharing a meditation with someone :)

Forum: General Discussion Fri, 19 Apr 2013
Topic: Meeting in the Unknown

Wow, that picture of the man and the lion was amazing. I seen it as a moment where maybe both thought and instincts were both quite. If fear appeared (thought) instincts would be maybe close behind and behind that a headless man :)

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 21 Apr 2013
Topic: Using Words To Hurt Another

Mina Martini wrote: -It is clear that the need to use words to hurt another, comes from hurt itself trying to perpetuate itself, spread itself. It it reaction trying to provoke more reaction in others to keep going, to feed itself.

Hi Mina

Hurt feeding its self. Often we talk about self or a portion of it like hurt as moving on its own, having a life of its own. Is that possible for hurt to go on a feeding binge? As if a living organism of some type with motive. I do sense it is division behind the movement creating the carrot on a stick, the creation of the self separate from the deed. Yet the very nature of non-duality at least for this writer makes clear seeing difficult being each and every next seeing is a new self. Even the standing holding our own tail is a self as and when it appears.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 16 Jun 2013
Topic: We are Nothing?

max greene wrote: Is it possible that there is just a wee bit of something buried in the nothing? Those who say we are nothing are forced to pin their logic on this possibility. Otherwise, the concept that "we are nothing" is simply ridiculous.

From person to presence. The sense here is the light of presence becomes veiled when being identified with a person/ego is left unchallenged.

I have to wonder if Krishnamurti's statement quoted by Dean " Why are we frightened to be nothing" is relative only to the identity we unconsciously hold of ourselves in time. Presence is fearless being that the image of nothing is just that an image and requires our ignorance to the authority we have given it. Presence as seen here when free of identification with the clothing of time is invulnerable/fearless.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 16 Jun 2013
Topic: We are Nothing?

Dean R. Smith wrote: Ego is possessor, not possession. You exemplify the fear that Krishnamurti spoke of.

A man can only give what is in his heart Dean.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 16 Jun 2013
Topic: We are Nothing?

Dean R. Smith wrote: At least, the guy that doesn't know how to read agreed with your post #22 statement. There can be no joy in that, though, can there? :)

Dean, now your making me feel loved :) I stand behind my statement that a man can only give what's in his heart.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 16 Jun 2013
Topic: We are Nothing?

Richard Vilaar wrote: we should not confuse vacuity and nihilism, even in the assertion "we are nothing" there is error, because it is to put the same thing as to say "we are something", all definition or idea that we made of us even of what we are, is false vision even if that lasts only a fraction of a second.

Yes, seeing this with you Richard. Raise one particle of dust and the whole world appears. Within the vacuity you speak of there is no one to ask "who am I" being that one is not yet identified with the sense of being the questioner.

Forum: General Discussion Sun, 16 Jun 2013
Topic: We are Nothing?

Dean R. Smith wrote: You have to admit that it's pretty sad that someone could post a very simple, very clear Krishnamurti exchange and get the meaning ass backwards. Anyways, how does your 'in his heart' statement relate to the comment that it's a response to?

I say our words give away our identifications. You, me, all of us.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 22 Apr 2014
Topic: K and Vedanta

mike christani wrote: As I understand it classical Vedanta involved studying, learning, then discarding all you knew- being teachings, one's own understandings, one's psychological accumulations.

Hi Mike

Classical Vedanta: One mans sense. Awareness must of hesitated if not just for a moment before it identified with a toe which could get wet in the river of time.

Awareness as seen here exist prior to the self image which due to its presence there is the seeking of freedom. In other words the one who starts the enquiry into freedom is negated as false before the journey is ended. I have enjoyed very much my own journey into Vedanta. Freedoms just another word for finding out you never had a self to loose anything :)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 02 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

Can we step out of our identification with matter? I think many have asked this question here but in different ways. The sense here is we need to ask ourselves if there is any presence of being, that sense that even if we were to let go of every identification with form that something remains, that which let go of form identification remains. Because if nothing remains when all form identification is released then we cannot step out of matter. Krishnamurti said that all matter was mechanical and as I see it if we are confined to matter, the thinker is the thought, then there is no life as we intuit, that is: life to be (sentient). Sentient is to feel, to experience impressions. If the thinker is the thought and thought is mechanical/matter then all we have is pattern acting upon pattern and not what we would really call sentient life, a feeling sensing being.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 02 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

randall merryman wrote: Oh George probably pushed the wrong button and posted outside of his forum.

Yes, exactly what happened, I had no intention of posting this thread here. Please excuse the posting of the same thread in two forums I could not delete the one here.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

randall merryman wrote: Something Dan said, made wonder, is this really our problem? Isn't the identification with a highr power, a soul, something beyond.....really the problem? I mean, if there is a utility for identification, it's for the body (matter), no? Self preservation?

Randall

I don't no exactly what to say regarding a higher power. What I do know is that this earth and the opportunity to be here is magnificent, I don't have a more grander word to express my gratitude, the sense of good fortune, luck, I don't know what else to say because anything I say comes up short in expressing the magic I feel for this human life. Yes pain and sickness can change all this quickly but I have no great pain or sickness to complain about. Randall I do have this strange sense that for the most part my looking at who and what we are is limited to the envelope of human collective conditioning, most enquiries/searches have their seeds from conditioned implanted idea's which act as an authority, and the search is for no other reason. Yet we all seem to have an intelligence which seeks to burst through this egg we all find ourselves in. Krishnamurti for me was the first to offer me some keys which I am still attempting to see what doors they open. One of those doors opened by a K key :) was realizing through attachments and identifications I was projecting the room I felt stuck in. There does seem to be a hidden power here but now it no longer feels separate, feels more so like power in the hands of a child not yet ready to unleash its full potential. Krishnamurti spoke of silence, a still mind. The sense here is that is only the child realizing that it was he holding the carrot on the stick. What's ahead of that? It maybe only subject to the childs imagination.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

max greene wrote: The brain, with its thinking, imagines that there is more.

Maybe it is the brain with its thinking that imagines less :) Maybe more or less is both thought, where do we go from here which is not a place in less thought says it is :)

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

randall merryman wrote: Isn't the identification with a highr power, a soul, something beyond.....really the problem?

Yes and NO, I think our main problem is projecting problems :) Not being smart just pointing out how fast our projected world gets away from us.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

max greene wrote: All thought (thinking) is a waste of time here.

Max, isn't you above statement limiting in the sense that you can find no place and I mean no place for thought? I am yet to understand the plain in which your awareness operates without thought, but I am always interested in what you say because of the passion behind your words, it leads me to feel I am missing your pointing some how. As I see it thought is a tool for something which without thought has no voice, no way to express its self, or maybe thought is just one way it expresses its self. Did thought manufacture, create one who now says " All thought (thinking) is a waste of time here." What gave birth or being to the one who made this announcement about thought? Is it possible to reject the authority of thought to such an extent that the statement or question dissolves in thoughts absence? If so does this point to thought as a ladder out of darkness, or half way out :) All the way out maybe when creator is no longer separate from creation he that of self.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

max greene wrote: Thinking and awareness are not the same thing.

Max, can you point out the difference that you see so maybe I can understand better your point.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

randall merryman wrote: But the premise of your origional post was a perceived problem with the identification with matter (people, places, things).

Yes, in the sense of our unconscious identifications with the world provided by conditioning as separate from ourselves. As long as conditioning remains as an unquestioned authority we will forever be at its mercy. At its mercy by seeking to solve problems which would not exist if we seen conditioning as a very, very, poor map of territory. Lets face it our world is a cosmic unknown soup and we as humans over the ages have made a very poor collective accepted map and now past down from generation to generation with the loss of the notion that we have created the map. The map says jump and we say how high :) I think together we are questioning this map we are all using, and questioning our relationship to it, does it exist without us? I don't know Randall I am still very much a student but I have began to notice if I play with the map by letting things go which in the past I may have resisted life goes on and new doors open. I ask myself why have I spent so much time resisting that which if I was dead at the age of five would happen unimpeded? Sometimes I feel its better to float down the river of life on an inner tube then stand against the stream as just one of countless possibilities each only a position, my inherited limitation to transcend. The funny thing about transcendence, its not that one really does anything accept get out of the way.

But to answer your original reply: I think from the first " Not a thing is". So there is no problem even of the ones I speak of up above in less we purchase it through the belief that it is separate from our own making or inherited authority/conditioning.

Forum: General Discussion Mon, 16 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

Daniel- paul wrote: And from there it is possible to consider that even this smallest particle contains beyond itself its own being-reason-motive to be what it is;

Yes as if a greater intelligence is playing Dan or George yet has forgotten so. Now seeks as George or Dan to find this higher intelligence but does not know it is its self it seeks.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 17 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

randall merryman wrote: Maybe we can explore the reason a mind would insert a very large paragraph of this type in a discussion of this nature? Sorry, but apparently this is how a "bhakta and "rishi" communicate, we're stuck in our roles I guess. ;)

Randall, at least sneak up on an ego if you wish to catch one. Ego exposing 101. And from a bhakta.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 17 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

max greene wrote: The foremost distinction between thinking and awareness is that it is impossible to think about something unknown but one can be aware of something unknown -- of course, upon the awareness it immediately becomes known!

Max

And what does one do when one has something of the unknown in his hands? Does he keep it as an unknown or does he turn it into some form of a tool? If a monkey left a long blade of grass unknown he would of never transformed it into a tool to catch ants or termites. Also it would be sad if he had to reinvent this tool each time. Maybe the tool would become lost for many generation being thinking is not needed. Not trying to be smart my old friend, I am only still trying to understand your pointing. I do understand the limiting nature of thinking but I feel that is due to fixation, a tool does not have to be limited fixed to one application, sure it may have a very good use in one area but to fixate to only one use or that no other tool can come into being to do a better job is a sad state. So far thinking as seen here still has a place, just not a concrete place. As we talked all paths come with a price. But what if paths are seen as temporary?

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 17 Jun 2014
Topic: Can we step out of our identification with matter?

Jayaraj Kapila Kulasinghe wrote: Yes, thinking has a direction, therefore the movement of the past, the 'me', whereas awareness is without direction, therefore dismantling of the past. Yes, it is understanding that puts things in the correct perspective.

What you have written is true about the past when the past is operating as an unconscious authority in ones life. But should we reinvent the wheel or use the wheel of the past in the present to a more suitable replacement comes, if it comes? Take for example if we were to shut down the world right now that thought built, shut it down instantly. Is awareness going to be ready to feed the world? Krishnamurti has said that thought sent man to the moon, made the computer and the airplane, and I am adding the tractor and the harvester which now helps to feed a population of eight billion on a earth which without these thought creations would only support one billion. Can awareness without the help of thought and its systems rebalance earth to a more suitable population through intelligent understanding or are both these system needed to work together, awareness using thought. I am just asking, enquiring. All my studies have only lead me to discover that there has been a division in thought and the division has been responsible for great conflict and confusion. So I don't know as of yet if thought must completely end or if it only needs to operate free of the division of thinker and thought. We as thought seem to be like a pump ever needing its prime, thought can see its own self end because that would be the loss of its prime. So we always have a problem to solve and the best one is ending thought, what a prime :)

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 27 Nov 2014
Topic: A New Forum Called 'Dialogue'

Jack Pine wrote: With the two airplanes that I have owned, the first an ultra lite, I have had three engine outages.

Hi Jack

I use to fly ultra lights, the MX in the early 80's, great fun. I remember taking off and feeling relieved clearing the HWY then the river bed then reaching an altitude where the ballistic parachute had the possibility of working if an airframe failure should happen or one had a few moments to look for a place to land if there was an engine out. Fortunate for me I only practiced engine outs. I remember flying holding a location in mind to land only long enough to pick my next one.

Forum: General Discussion Thu, 27 Nov 2014
Topic: A New Forum Called 'Dialogue'

Jack Pine wrote: Were you flying over the desert out of Kingman? I know that the town was where you used to live. Man, in the summer the density altitude there must have been real challenging.

I was quite the amateur pilot and all my flying was in Paris CA. We use to say us amateur pilots if the wind sock was even moving it was going to be rough up there for us :) I remember a few times as the heat of the day increased causing thermals I had to put the stick almost all the way forward and still I was gaining altitude. What about the washer that slid up and down the wire in a plastic tube marking wind speed or the sight of the ground from between your legs. When I started having children with my wife she asked me to stop flying, she witness an ultra light cartwheel upon landing, thank god the guy was alright. Now I fearlessly ride my bicycle down marked bike paths for adventure. That and a good walk in the woods. I live in the mountains of southern California these days.

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 16 Dec 2014
Topic: transformed randall

pavani rao wrote: Well that's a rather interesting remark Randall . Two words you have used ' destiny ' and the ' world ' in your post . To great extent I do go with the 'destiny ' part . From my child hood days I had seen in my life and in the lives of others closely associated with me , the part being played by the destiny . But at the same time it's my strong belief and also conviction that to a great extent the person himself / herself is responsible for the plight and situations in ones life .

Hello pavani

I usually do not come out of my cellar down below but found your exchange so important, hope you don't mind my input.

Pavani as I see it I had no input on the countless conditions that were responsible for my final form. My genes were not of my choosing. Where on this globe I was raised and the many people who influenced ( conditioned my mind ) I had no influence. Even my educational conditioning and how hard I studied or didn't I had very little if any influence. My point is and it maybe left better to a thread of its own, free will is the imagination of a separate self which has been conditioned to believe in free will. I stand to be corrected but to me every action that we take has a relationship to an unknowable number of causes and conditions which lead up to our holistic response as us as the some total of the whole. Sometimes I have watched people being called lazy when it was not known or is never known they had a small defect of a heart artery. Or a person with depression misses a job interview because they can't get themselves up and out of the house. To me there is just so many variables steering us down the road of life it is hard for me to imagine ownership of good personal governing qualities. I have often watched people put down because they are on drugs, street drugs. To me I see they have had many unconscious influences which have happened to them to bring them to that state.

The Buddhist have said when conditions are right something comes into existence and when it is no longer favorable that outcome changes to something else. Just wanted to share this sense of the lack of a separate self.

The conditions that brought me to kinfonet are many. The one which had the heaviest influence was looking through a library used book sale and finding the 'awakening of intelligence' for 10 cents.

I just question if our passion is ours, do we own it? Or does it belong to the cosmos and came to us without picking and choosing? There something smelly about one person having a better head on there shoulders, having more will power, having the maturity to make choices free of influence when the rest of the population is left to be a bunch of pool balls. Some how I feel we are along for the ride more then we think :)

Forum: General Discussion Tue, 16 Dec 2014
Topic: transformed randall

randall merryman wrote: Grading/judging people based on an unfair corrupt system that has evolved in society, is a mistake.

Agreed, find a measure system which does not owe its existence to thought :) One thing that has been noticed by some people: Man unleashes inventions such as the measure of a good person without knowing the consequences of its existence.