Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The Central Core of Thinking

Beginnings of Learning | School Dialogue, Brockwood Park, England. June 1971

Questioner: I find I am still insecure.

Krishnamurti: No. I have identified myself with certain ideologies. What happens then?

Questioner: You try to make that your security.

Krishnamurti: I have given various reasons for this identification: because it is rational, it is workable, all the rest of it. Now what happens when I have identified myself with it?

Questioner: You have a conflict.

Krishnamurti: Look what happens. I have identified myself with an ideology, with a group of people, or a person, it is part of me. I must protect that mustn't I? Therefore if it is threatened I am lost, I am back again to my insecurity. So what takes place? I am angry with anybody who attacks or doubts it. Then what is the actual thing that takes place?

Questioner: Conflict.

Krishnamurti: Look: I have identified myself with an ideology. I must protect it because it is my security and I resist anybody who threatens that, in the sense of having a contradictory ideology. So where I have identified myself with an ideology there must be resistance, I build a wall round what I have identified myself with. Where there is a wall, it must create division. Then there is conflict. I don't know if you see all this?

Now what is the next step? - go on.

Questioner: (1) What is the difference between identification and cooperation?

Questioner: (2) It seems there has to be more understanding of cooperation.

Krishnamurti: You know what it means to cooperate, to work together? Can there be cooperation when there is identification? Do you know what we mean by identification? We have examined the anatomy of it. Cooperation means to work together. Can I work with you if I have identified myself with an ideology and you are identified with another ideology? Obviously not.

Questioner: But people have to work together.

Krishnamurti: Is that cooperation?

Questioner: No.

Krishnamurti: See what is involved. Because of our identification with an ideology we work together, you protect it and I protect it. It is our security, in the name of God, in the name of beauty, in the name of anything. We think that is cooperation. Now what takes place? Can there be cooperation when there is identification with a group?

Questioner: No, because there is division. I find myself in conflict with members of the group, because I keep identifying with them.

Krishnamurti: Look what is happening. You and I have identified ourselves with that ideology. Our interpretation of that ideology may be...

Questioner: ...different...

Krishnamurti: Of course. If you vary in the interpretation of that ideology you are deviating, therefore we are in conflict. Therefore we must both of us agree about that ideology completely. Is that possible?

Questioner: That is exactly what happens with a school. Instead of an ideology, you identify with a school and each person has his own concept.

Krishnamurti: Yes, quite right - why?

Questioner: I sense that sometimes there is conflict here for just the reason you were giving when talking about an ideology. If you and I identify with the school, we think we are cooperating, but there isn't that spirit.

Krishnamurti: Therefore I am asking, can there be cooperation when there is identification.

Questioner: No.

Krishnamurti: Do you know what you are saying? (Laughter.) That is how everything in this world is working. Is that the truth? - that where there is identification there can be no cooperation? It is a marvellous thing to discover the truth of this. Not your opinion, or my opinion, but the truth, the validity of it. Therefore we have to find out what we mean by cooperation. You see there can be no cooperation when there is identification with an idea, with a leader, with a group and so on. Then, what is cooperation in which there is no identification?

Questioner: Acting in response to the situation itself.

Krishnamurti: I am not saying you are not right, but can we work together when you and I think differently? When you are concerned with yourself and I am concerned with myself? And one of the reasons is, that knowing we cannot cooperate when we are thinking of ourselves, we try to identify ourselves with an ideology, hoping thereby to bring about cooperation. But if you don't identify, what is cooperation?

Here we are at Brockwood, in a school. We see there cannot be cooperation when there is identification with the school, with an idea, with a programme, with a particular policy of this and that. And also we see that identification is the cause of all division. Then, what is cooperation? To work together: not ''about something''. Do you see the difference? So before you do something together, what is the spirit of cooperation? The feeling, the inwardness of it, what is that feeling?