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Science&its limitations

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Wed, 19 Aug 2009 #1
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Many have seen CSI TV programmes, endlessly finding criminals through DNA analysis etc. Now comes the news that syntheticDNA can be produced and it can disturb forensic-evidence-gathering.What is on store for forsensic scientists? So, Science&technology is not infallible-science creates its own problems... after all.. human thought...What is your thought on this?

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 19 Aug 2009 #2
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:

Many have seen CSI TV programmes, endlessly finding criminals through DNA analysis etc. Now comes the news that syntheticDNA can be produced and it can disturb forensic-evidence-gathering.What is on store for forsensic scientists? So, Science&technology is not infallible-science creates its own problems... after all.. human thought...What is your thought on this?


To me it's simply but another of the many signs that we're in the last days, Krishnan. And quite frankly it's unworthy of discussion so far as I'm concerned. As to do so is to be caught up in the overwhelming monkey-business and thereby of no real value in bringing the light of truth and understanding into our dark world.

One serves the evolutionary process best by bringing in the light rather than cursing at the darkness.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Wed, 19 Aug 2009.

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Wed, 19 Aug 2009 #3
Thumb_photo Prasanna P India 33 posts in this forum Offline

Krish and Bob, why have we become so cynical ? If science hasn't grown enough so far, we can't conclude that it will not grow in future also. Science is the collection of human observations, and such observations are still continuing and growing.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

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Wed, 19 Aug 2009 #4
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Prasanna P wrote:

Krish and Bob, why have we become so cynical ? If science hasn't grown enough so far, we can't conclude that it will not grow in future also. Science is the collection of human observations, and such observations are still continuing and growing.


Cynical? I have great hopes for a small portion of the species, Prasanna. That should be quite clear from my offerings here, no? Though in order for some others to come into the light, the darkness must be exposed. Though certainly not merely idly ragged over as a true cynic does.

Surely science has it's place in the overall scheme of things. But generally, or let's say, overwhelmingly, the hearts and minds of most scientists have been conditioned irreparably cold and quite frankly inhuman to the point that overall the scientific community is now doing far more harm than good. Just like politics and religion.

Actually science has created the means for the necessary cleansing of the planet of the huge amount of the soon unnecessary 'fallen evolutionary rabble', if you will. So again, science certainly has, or perhaps better yet, had, its place. Though I think we could do quite well without any more of it, as it's 'grown' to be largely a destructive monster. That is most certainly humanly and spiritually speaking.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Wed, 19 Aug 2009.

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Thu, 20 Aug 2009 #5
Thumb_photo Prasanna P India 33 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:
as it's 'grown' to be largely a destructive monster.

A section of mankind, because of its unique combination of fragmented consciousness combined with knowledge, has become monsters. Science, to repeat, still remains as a collection of facts or secrets of nature.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

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Thu, 20 Aug 2009 #6
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Prasanna P wrote:
A section of mankind, because of its unique combination of fragmented consciousness combined with knowledge, has become monsters. Science, to repeat, still remains as a collection of facts or secrets of nature.

"My life is a story of the self-realization of the unconscious. Everything in the unconscious seeks outward manifestation, and the personality too desires to evolve out of its unconscious conditions and to experience itself as a whole. I cannot employ the language of science to trace this process of growth in myself, for I cannot experience myself as a scientific problem. What we are to our inward vision, and what man appears to be sub specie aeternitatis, can only be expressed by way of myth. Myth is more individual and expresses life more precisely than does science. Science works with concepts of averages which are far too general to do justice to the subjective variety of an individual life. Thus it is that I have now undertaken, in my eighty-third year, to tell my personal myth. I can only make direct statements, only "tell stories." Whether or not the stories are "true" is not the problem. The only question is whether what I tell is my fable, my truth." (Carl Jung - 'Memories, Dreams, Reflections')

And I repeat: science has evolved or grown to a point where it does far more harm than good to the evolutionary process. Essentially it now serves largely to keep the process stuck in the darkness of decay and degeneracy.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Mon, 24 Aug 2009.

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Sat, 22 Aug 2009 #7
Thumb_photo Prasanna P India 33 posts in this forum Offline

Bob: And I repeat: science has evolved
or grown to a point where it does far
more harm than good to the
evolutionary process. Essentially it
now serves largely to keep the process
stuck in the darkness of decay and
degeneracy.

Bob, Sorry for asking this question again. You say science does more harm than good. Isn't it a collection of facts of nature and nothing else ? It is the man who is harming by making use of science.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

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Sat, 22 Aug 2009 #8
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Prasanna P wrote:
It is the man who is harming by making use of science

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Sat, 22 Aug 2009 #9
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Yes the man who uses the tools of Science for his/her own end is responsible at the end.Science has enabled many things and also destroyed many things.I need not remind of the nuclear weaponry,Hiroshima/nagasaki etc, look at the way nations, especially developing Nations like India et al behave. Instead of eliminating disease, poor hygiene, lack of toilet, water facilities, the Indians are too busy going Nuclear and so are innumerable others like them.They want to go to the Moon but they leave the leprosy- afflicted on the roadside begging the proletysing Christians.Endless merry-go-around of samaritan Christians with their bloated egoes.What has Science done to the pooor and needy-made them cravingly more poor.Half-baked theories and inconclusive experiments have made havoc on humanity.Please do not glorify Science&technology.At their altar, human beings(not to speak of innumerable animal
species) are daily offered as sacrifice. I do not reject Science.I reject the so called elite- politicians,elite- Scientists and the demagogues who seem to weild power over the masses in the name of various constructs like "democracy".
Dear Prasanna, You can boil it all down to Pscyhology, I know, but the fact remains that all that glitters is not Gold! Science is like another form of religion for the modern man cursed with thought ,for-ever.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

This post was last updated by Krishnan Srinivasan Thu, 24 Sep 2009.

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Sat, 22 Aug 2009 #10
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Prasanna P wrote:
Bob, Sorry for asking this question again. You say science does more harm than good. Isn't it a collection of facts of nature and nothing else ? It is the man who is harming by making use of science.
Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

Yes, once again, it (science collectively) now does more harm than good, Prasanna. And especially now that the desensitization of the human species has become so huge and widespread. Which has resulted in science often distorting and manipulating the facts, the truth. And the same thing applies to religion and politics. Indeed men's minds and hearts have waxed (been conditioned) stone cold everywhere, save for a few of us.

But someday soon, K's teachings (which are simply to know oneself and fully be oneself and are not unique to him alone) will be advanced in a manner which will effectively bring some of those few into the Light of Love and Understanding. And it won't take place through any of the organizations he left behind, as they are all thoroughly immersed in the ways of the world.

They may be instrumental in spreading his teachings to the far corners of the globe, as many other teachings have been, but without a living teacher, and one who's in possession of the right teaching, the right approach, it's all but a thing of vanity. Save for filling people's pocketbooks and inflating their egos. Or feeding the self-centered self.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Sun, 23 Aug 2009.

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Sun, 23 Aug 2009 #11
Thumb_photo Prasanna P India 33 posts in this forum Offline

Go slowly. Let us clear up this mess. Bob, you aren't alone. Most K readers say so. I still wonder, whether I was taught wrong in school or others can't understand me. ;-) When you say, Science does harm, will it not mean that science is an entity which can harm ?

Whereas my contention is that science is only knowledge or a mere collection of facts of nature, and the user of this is the human consciousness. Because of its own internal damage or defect, the consciousness is mis-using its knowledge. Hence, science or the scientists (finders of knowledge) can't be blamed. Pl correct me if I am wrong.

If this gets cleared, then we can take up how 'thought hasn't caused the miseries of this world.

Unless Advanced, K's Teachings May Remain As Ineffective As of Now

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Mon, 24 Aug 2009 #12
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:
I do not reject Science. I reject the so called elite- politicians, elite- Scientists and the demagogues who seem to weild power over the masses in the name of various constructs like "democracy". Dear Prasanna, You can boil it all down to Pscyhology, I know, but the fact remains that all that glitters is not Gold! Science is like another form of religion for the modern man cursed with thought , for-ever.

Yes Krishnan, but we must remember here that these kinds CANNOT and WILL NOT change and will be ignorantly, blindly, self-centeredly, and thereby violently in command of things everywhere until it all goes up in smoke and ruin. They are simply constitutionally incapable of change and overcoming their deeply-conditioned psychic fragmentation. Which is so deep that they are not at all aware of it, nor can they ever be made aware of it either. "Self-critical awareness" is something they are simply not capable of employing in their lives. Which is why, if there's to be any hope for the species, a society of people who can be restored to wholesomeness of mind, body, and spirit must be created somewhere away from the darkness and madness of the mainstream of life. And I think we should include the bulk of the psychologists in your list of rejects, since they are equally doers of much mischief or monkey-business.

Little has changed in 2000 years, as everywhere the blind continue to lead the blind. While also remembering here that we must always have understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness for these hopelessly lost and thereby essentially destructive souls since they know not what they do. They are unfortunately a product of their irreparable conditioning for which they are not responsible.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Mon, 24 Aug 2009 #13
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Robert Michael wrote:
And I think we should include the bulk of the psychologists in your list of rejects, since they are equally doers of much mischief or monkey-business.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Mon, 24 Aug 2009 #14
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Bob, your rejection of psychologists, as "mischief-makers" is akin to KARL POPPER`s rejection of Psychology as a serious science(Popper,Karl:The Poverty of Historicism).
All Sciences are limited because they are based on finite thoughts of human beings
which are incomplete in themselves. Thanks for your comments.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Mon, 24 Aug 2009 #15
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Krishnan Srinivasan wrote:
Bob, your rejection of psychologists, as "mischief-makers" is akin to KARL POPPER`s rejection of Psychology as a serious science(Popper,Karl: The Poverty of Historicism). All Sciences are limited because they are based on finite thoughts of human beings which are incomplete in themselves. Thanks for your comments.

Thanks for the note Krishnan. I've heard of the man but never really studied his views and ideas. Perhaps I should take a look at them. Though I can clearly see definite destructive and even often fatal errors in the fields or branches of Psychology and Psychiatry. And I darn near became a victim of them myself. Though the Great Unnamable Psychologist and some of his good and decent human helpers got me safely, though not painlessly, through it all.

Now, I find that even the very best of psychologists and shrinks rarely, if ever, go beyond thought, reason, logic, and analogies, and then on to enter and dwell into that rare mystical and timeless dimension of being. And as a result they remain very largely mischief-makers. Or could we perhaps even say here, doers of evil or wickedness?

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

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Mon, 24 Aug 2009 #16
Thumb_deleted_user_med Robert Michael United States 116 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Prasanna P wrote:
Go slowly. Let us clear up this mess. Bob, you aren't alone. Most K readers say so. I still wonder, whether I was taught wrong in school or others can't understand me. ;-) When you say, Science does harm, will it not mean that science is an entity which can harm ?
Whereas my contention is that science is only knowledge or a mere collection of facts of nature, and the user of this is the human consciousness. Because of its own internal damage or defect, the consciousness is mis-using its knowledge. Hence, science or the scientists (finders of knowledge) can't be blamed. Pl correct me if I am wrong.
If this gets cleared, then we can take up how 'thought hasn't caused the miseries of this world.

Prasanna: fallen, conditioned, ignorant, greedy, dishonest, envious, weak, sinister, etc., or just plain defective, people create and propogate defective Science (and knowledge). Hence defective people and defective Science and defective knowledge continue to in fact do much harm to mankind and the evolutionary process.

Bob M.

"Very soon a man shall appear who will finally dispell the universal darkness from our world." (Bob M.)

This post was last updated by Robert Michael (account deleted) Mon, 24 Aug 2009.

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Mon, 23 Nov 2009 #17
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

Science has limitations.todays news: A Belgian lying in coma for 23 years according to specialists who tested him and treated him over all these years.But in fact he "woke" up to complain that he was not in coma, he was aware of what was going on around him all the time.the doctors and their Glascow test for Coma Patients have failed him.he regrets he could not read newspapers, work on the computer all these years and now he is joyed that he is allowed after all these hyears "of mistreatment" b y scientific specialists.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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Wed, 25 Nov 2009 #18
Thumb_readytoloadup_correction Krishnan Srinivasan Denmark 322 posts in this forum Offline

The Belgian "Coma man" Ron is flashed in all TV channels these days. Science can never be perfect.There were many other coma recovered histories are also being telecast now.

Life is like the tamarind fruit bound in its shell

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