Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Thu, 06 Jul 2017 #31
Thumb_stringio Jess S Portugal 9 posts in this forum Offline

John Raica wrote:
he never had to go through all this ' awareness of everything' as a pre-requisite

I'm not sure he didn't have to go through the different stages of awareness in his theosophical times with all those initiations! In his Book Life in Freedom he suggests he has been through a lot. Anyway, I find as I read this description of what Krishnamurti means by awareness that there is a quality of truth in it, that it really has to be so to be thorough so all that is left is to do it.

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Sun, 23 Jul 2017 #32
Thumb_photo_reduite John Raica Canada 650 posts in this forum Offline

The conundrum of 'individuality'

I believe that a lot of unnecessary confusion and animosity was generated- openly or suliminally- by K's outspoken approach of our psychological 'individuality' (or ...inner integration ?) :'You are not individuals', a 'bundle of 'memories', 'fragmented human beings'...and so on and so forth. Now, is this the 'absolute' truth or just a 'face value' statement of facts ? The question "Is it really so ?" should be probably answered only in our own 'inner forum', meaning that it is not a matter of accepting anybody's authority.

Now, if we consider one of K's later statements made in his very last public talk ' If you are not certain, find out why and be certain' this it may throw some necessary light on this very intimate 'psychological' issue: K's reiterated questioning of ( our true ?) 'individuality' is in the first place a frontal challenge adressed to the 'all-knowing' egocentric consciousness- which incidently is 'skin deep' no matter how cultivated and well rounded. So if we take it as an open invitation to self-questioning, a major topic to be considered in our most intimate & profound meditations, what appears on the first sight as a very destabilising challenge coming from a 'man of Truth' , this might lead to a very constructive 'insight'- the very real issue of our inner fragmentation can be 'exposed', 'examined' and 'integrated' in the light generated by an authentic ( thought -free ?) meditation. In other words, the whole issue becomes an insightful opportunity for becoming a light for ourselves

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Sun, 23 Jul 2017 #33
Thumb_avatar Peter Kesting United States 11 posts in this forum Offline

To all, if i may point out:

In your observing you are takeing your selves to be your memory....This can be seen if you consider what it would be like to loose your memory. If you had a complete loss of memory... what would that be like? You can consider the state of a new born baby or go even further back to a state even earlier when consciousness first emerges. There will be some first sense of sentience before any memories are there. "You" will experience something. That "you" is sentience. That sentience is what you are. You are only that. You are not the memories that you have collected. You are not your history, your envy, your fear, your desires, your effort.... None of that will be there. Yet you will experience that first something.

To go further into this... that sentience itself with a newborns mind...you will not even take that to be you... There is no 'you' there.

Still further one can see that any bit of sentience is not in anyway different from any other bit anywhere. It's all the same sentience.

This post was last updated by Peter Kesting Sun, 23 Jul 2017.

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20 hours ago #34
Thumb_stringio Jess S Portugal 9 posts in this forum Offline

John Raica wrote:
'individuality' is in the first place a frontal challenge adressed to the 'all-knowing' egocentric consciousness

I think Krishnamurti generally says we are not individuals as long as we depend on others, as long as we copy models in order to be successful in life, as long as we are not able 'to stand alone'. In the Dhammapada ( The sayings of Buddha, translated and commented by Thomas Cleary), we have a similar idea - much more detailed - in the chapter called The Priestly One: 'One who has cut through all fetters, who thus is never agitated, who has gone beyond attachment and is detached, is the one I call priestly. (...) Like water on a lotus leaf, or a mustard seed on the point of a needle, one who does not cling to desires is the one that I call priestly. One who knows the end of his own misery right here in this world, one who has put down his burden and is unattached, is one that I call priestly...'

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17 hours ago #35
Thumb_stringio Jess S Portugal 9 posts in this forum Offline

John Raica wrote:
doesn't really say 'how' is the prospective 'priest' supposed to get there.

I'm afraid that is not true as globally anyone somehow familiar with buddhism has heard of 'the middle way'. Krishnamurti yes, would not accept a 'how question', but he speaks of choiceless awareness, so, yes, there's definitely a gap here and 'learning' doesn't seem to put any light here because in Krishnamurti's language it means not to accumulate... How don't you accumulate?

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11 hours ago #36
Thumb_photo_reduite John Raica Canada 650 posts in this forum Offline

Jess S wrote:
How don't you accumulate?

Well, Jess, very simply, in the context of an authentic meditation- for which K does give an excellent clue: emptying of the mind from the (psychological content of the ) 'known'- there is simply nothing to accumulate- so it is a direct perception of this point. And then you eventually realise that there might be a different approach to your own inner life-where the freedom of being is becoming the first 'psychological' priority- Many kids do have this inborn capacity, but eventually they trade it for accumulating 'valuables' - for these you can trade, build upon and... become a 'man of the world'

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