Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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In being completely one with the world, lies its transformation


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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #1
Thumb_open-uri20180717-8420-135f99u-0 Mina Martini Finland 248 posts in this forum Offline

One is ‘gone from the world’, not because of standing apart from it, resisting it, denying it, judging it, but because of being totally one with it.

And because the world that the mind/thought is creating on Earth is a creation of ‘standing apart’, of the thinker appearing separate from thought, therefore, when you are totally one with it, the world is being transformed in you.

It is not even possible to be completely one with that which is a creation of thought (thought which is always incomplete), without this oneness being a radical transformation of the world created by the illusion of division.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #2
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 755 posts in this forum Offline

Mina Martini wrote:
when you are totally one with it, the world is being transformed in you.

Hi Mina,

Do you mean by this that all the images of the world are replaced by this one fact or by this replacement the totallity is transformed ?

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #3
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 975 posts in this forum Offline

Mina Martini wrote:
And because the world that the mind/thought is creating on Earth is a creation of ‘standing apart’, of the thinker appearing separate from thought, therefore, when you are totally one with it, the world is being transformed in you.

The "standing"(feeling, thinking that one is ) "apart" is the illusion we live in. The illusion creates the 'other' but in 'reality' there is no 'other'. The "transformation of the world" then is the ending of this illusion of 'apartness'. Though there is a separateness between 'things' in the physical world. There is the tree and the flower...but the separateness created by thought of a 'me' separate from 'you' psychologically is the illusion. The 'me' is the compilation of past history, all the "conclusions" being constantly updated to maintain the fiction of my individuality. Any effort to change this, to be free of it e.g. is just more 'updating', reinforcing the illusion of separateness. That seems clear.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #4
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 755 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
The 'me' is the compilation of past history, all the "conclusions" being constantly updated to maintain the fiction of my individuality. Any effort to change this, to be free of it e.g. is just more 'updating', reinforcing the illusion of separateness. That seems clear.

But why than speak of a transformation while in fact it is just seeing the illusion for what it is ?

Cleansing the mind so it can function complete with no hindrances.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #5
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 975 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
But why than speak of a transformation while in fact it is just seeing the illusion for what it is ?

Do we see the illusion for what it is intellectually? Which is to say, "I have a theory that we are all living inside an illusion, a kind of dream..." Krishnamurti and others say that we must wake up from this 'dream' or we will eventually destroy ourselves as well as others. The "transformation" I would say is the awakening from the present illusory situation. But the 'breakthrough' he says does not involve 'time' whereas for thought, everything happens in time. So thought sees the 'awakening' as up ahead there somewhere, possibly. You and Mina are pointing out I think that that 'image' of awakening, of transformation is all just a part of the illusion. 'Awakening' is not an image/word 'Transformation' is not an image/word, that is only how thought 'thinks' about these 'things'.

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #6
Thumb_open-uri20180717-8420-135f99u-0 Mina Martini Finland 248 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
But why than speak of a transformation while in fact it is just seeing the illusion for what it is ?

Mina: Hello Wim! -Well, the word transformation, as this person uses it, means exactly the same as seeing the illusion for what it is. -The transformation is not from one thing into another, (which would be thought/time/continuation) but the discovery that there is only One, as the illusion dissolves in this realisation. -Transformation is a good word to describe a total complete change in one's consciousness, because that is what this transformation also is.

Love
m

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #7
Thumb_open-uri20180717-8420-135f99u-0 Mina Martini Finland 248 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
The "transformation" I would say is the awakening from the present illusory situation.

m: Yes Dan, transformation, awakening, seeing the illusion for what it is, all these phrases describe the same...

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #8
Thumb_open-uri20180717-8420-135f99u-0 Mina Martini Finland 248 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
Hi Mina,

Do you mean by this that all the images of the world are replaced by this one fact or by this replacement the totallity is transformed ?

m: No, not talking about replacing images with image(s), if that is what you are asking. I would say that the total transformation takes place when no movement of image to replace/react to images (which is what the mind always does), takes place.

The totality of life is not tranfsformed, the totality simply 'is', as timeless Being.

There is no image in the essence of life and that essence is the totality, the wholeness, the oneness..

-Not sure if I understood your ponderings correctly, but my responses still stand alone by themselves.

You can clarify further if you wish.

Lovingly
m

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Thu, 13 Sep 2018 #9
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 755 posts in this forum Offline

Dan McDermott wrote:
You and Mina are pointing out I think that that 'image' of awakening, of transformation is all just a part of the illusion. 'Awakening' is not an image/word 'Transformation' is not an image/word, that is only how thought 'thinks' about these 'things'.

There is/was no image involved in my description.

Mina Martini wrote:
Transformation is a good word to describe a total complete change in one's consciousness, because that is what this transformation also is.

After the reply it became suddenly clear that the word 'transform' put me on the wrong track because of 'trance' and ' form' both from the body and 'transcendent' seem to be for me a better description.

But what's in the name ;
after all, it is about rising above yourself.

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

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Fri, 14 Sep 2018 #10
Thumb_open-uri20180717-8420-135f99u-0 Mina Martini Finland 248 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
But what's in the name ;
after all, it is about rising above yourself.

m: Yes! Beautifully put and true!

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